Saw a couple of Elements at the NAIAS. Exterior panels had a lot of superficial scratches that the Honda people couldn't really explain. They say they aren't that prone to scratches and that this was basically vandalism from previous show appearances. I couldn't really scratch it with my fingernail so maybe this is so? Any owners care to comment?

JR

I thought it would be worth noting that the Element brochure (just got mine in the mail) has a nice shot of the Black EX with little blurbs about the Element all over it. One of them reads, "durable, scratch-defying composite body panels." But, sounds like they ain't so defiable from what people are starting to say. I'm anxious, like you, to hear from owners who take good care of their cars rather than some demo that gets moved from town to town and looked over by thousands, ya know...

I've read that the plastic quarter panels can actually be scratched with a finger nail. Can any owners out there comment? I don't have mine yet to determine whether or not that's true.

Yeah, I was at the NAIAS(Auto Show) of Detroit and seen the scatches too....Ouch! :shock:
I had already ordered my Element but could have cancelled the order. I like the car so much I decided to keep the order in.
After all we had 824,000 people visit just our show. So who knows. I was told by my dealer that they caught some kids with a protractor putting scatches on the vehicles. Hopefully Honda with make them more durable soon! .....Butch.

P.S. I noticed that the composite panels are different on the EX (kinda metallic) compared to the DX. The DX took on a lot more scatches. The EX material seemed more resistant.

I thought the EX panels looked tougher too. Of course the person on the floor said they were the same, but what do they know?

BTW, I wouldn't be surprised to see a more "urban" version of this vehicle with painted panels in the future. I think that is what the Studio E concept was about.

JR

JR, I think your right about Honda maybe coming out with metal fenders or painted plastic fenders on some of the Element models in the future. But I do think that the dark composite panels are one of the major things that make the Element So different. 8)
I just hope Honda looks at this site and makes some definite changes in the material composition of the panels. It can be made more resistant to scatches ( as in: the trim on a Chevy Avalanche)
From the comments I heard at the Detroit Auto Show, If Honda doesn't do something, their headed for a PR nightmare. ......Butch

My friend called me yesterday from the auto show in St. Louis. He said they had two Elements and neither one of them looked scratched up. Could be different models (and probably were) but anyway...

T Mac, I hope your right about the no scratches (for all our sakes) I would like to know how those cars are going to look like at the end of the Auto show. Tell you friend I'll send 'em ticket money to go back at the end of the week :D ....Butch

the type of plastic used in the fenders does not vary from a DX to an EX

I've worked on about 6 or 7 Elements since they've come out and I can say that yes, the plastic is not to difficult to scratch... but then again, keep in mind.. IT'S PLASTIC. :shock:


As you're all aware I'm sure, the plastic has a slight tecture to it and that is what does such a good job at hiding scratches ~ not so much the fact that the panels are made out of some uber-plastic (as some presenters would lead you to beleive)

~~ Nope, I don't own one... just seriously considering one after working one a number of them

I looked very closely to the panels. THERE IS a difference between the two. The EX has kind of with a metallic sheen and the DX with no metallic sheen. I been told by my salesman also that there is a diff on the panels bwt the EX and DX. I wonder if it isn't just an additive in the EX panels?.......Butch

P.S. At our Auto Show in Detroit I took my finger nail (stubby nails at that) and was able to leave scratches in the composite panels. I tried it on the Chevy Avalanche composite trim and COULD NOT scratch it at all with my fingernail. There wasn't even hints of the trim hiding scratches because of any texturing.
I know Honda can't make the composite panels indestructable, but I'm sure they could have made the material more scratch resistant or textured different. I guess time will tell.....Butch

the sparkly stuff is just a add-in during the injection molding process ~ the plastic substrate itself is the same. They add it in as a "ooh-ahhhh" feature.... Honda corporate is wonderfully aware of how easily impressed and dazzled Americans are... geez...shiny quarters fascinate us (admit it, you stare at them too when you get one...)

~~ they could make the plastic glisten like a snow-globe and neon-kawasaki green if they wanted ~ it's just a cosmetic tweak, not structural.

Dazzeling people isn't confined to just our culture. Look how silly the Japanese look trying everything American, from Michael Jackson to Britany Spears to the Greasers in American Graffiti. :lol:
Just a thought to ponder......Butch

*pondering*

These exterior panels are a real problem ! They are coming off the trucks scratched according to a local dealer. The panels scratch easily and they haven't been shipped wrapped in plastic.

Honda has changed their documentation on the element from scratch resistant or scratch defying to ding resistant and ding defying.

Honda is supposedly going to ship them wrapped mostly in protective plastic, but, who wants a car directed at camping, surfing, and biking that is that fragile?

The Element concept was to have a durable trouble-free interior and exterior and these fenders or panels have thrown a wrench into the works.

The body panels on the Element are different between the DX and the EX. The EX panels are a brighter, almost metalic, finish. The panels are scratch "resistant" not "proof." should they scratch you can buff them just like the paint.

I hope your right. And nothing is scratch proof, thats not what we're saying here. I still say Honda made a boo boo with this part. I really think they can come up with a better idea. More scratch resistant body composites are out there. Seeing you work for Honda, I understand your view.
I have noticed that Honda loyalist sometimes don't want to hear about obvious flaws in their Hondas. Its almost like the "King with No Clothes" syndrome.
Honda does think out their product development before production and thats what I like, "Honda Quality". But no one is flawless "all the time". I bought the Element myself even after seeing how the panels held up because I like the overall vehicle that much. But mark my words, Honda with change this part of the car, some way, in the future models.

i was at the dealer the other day to see if my car arrived (it didnt)anywhay i mentioned the scratching problem. we both went out to an element dx and with his fingernail he tried to scratch it right in front of me and it really didnt do anything to it. i also tried nothing . im not saying i couldnt keep sawing away until i did scratch it.but remember it is plastic we are dealing with and its softer than metal.

Today when I checked on my order (Element will be here in 1 week) In the dealership was an Element and I DID scratch it with my stubby fingernail. And so did a friend of mine who was with me. That was the first try and was not even trying to saw away at it.
Of course we're dealing with plastic here but there are tougher auto composite materials out there. Thats all I'm saying.
Honda should have went the extra mile, since their reputation will be on the line.

I tried to scratch an GM Avalanche with no luck - and looked at 20 in the lot that had no scratches.

The E scratches and I saw someone (poor soul) that had terrible scratches from the gas cap flap to the bottom of the vehicle. Either they get FULL SERVE or the pump fell down and scratched the hell out of that panel.

There is material out there and has been for some time that can do the job Honda initially advertised (and the U.S. BROCHURE still claims) Scratch defying panels. Honda said they were made so a surf board or bike resting against the vehicle would not damage the vehicle.
Honda needs to get this right !!

PSKBEAR,

Wouldn't buffing the panels change the finish texture? Isn't the metalic finish only on the surface?

How easy would it be to replace damaged panels, could the owner do this?

[quote:6d4b1a12c9="Sharp"]PSKBEAR,

Wouldn't buffing the panels change the finish texture? Isn't the metalic finish only on the surface?
[/quote:6d4b1a12c9]

Buffing on a new vehicle? That sounds too scary for me. GM owners aren't having to buff theirs.

Simon...why are you so against this vehicle?

I'll wait to buff till I've drive through several hundred miles of sage brush.. DUH! :P

The best thing to do when you roll off the new car lot, is to find a good place to put a scratch on your new car. Seriously. Otherwise you're going to be parking in the back of the parking lots where no one else is, or dancing around your car everytime your leave it for 5 minutes, looking for door dings. Just scratch the hell out of it the first day, then be free to enjoy your new purchase, rather than becoming a slave to the glossy clear coat. It sounds like Honda is providing a service in the delivery of "pre-scratched" vehicles, or easily scratched vehicles. Now you don't have to hunt around for a Forestry Service road to do the work, just lean on it with a quarter in your back pocket and your done. ;-)

The frontier I traded in was 2yrs old and not a single ding. It was rather annoying waiting for that first scratch, which never came. Back in '89 my wife had a new camery and I parked out away from the masses at a hardward store. Came out to find a really ugly chevy blazer next to the car and a big dent in my door. Obviously deliberate. With the frontier I always looked for newer cars to park between.

With the Element I keep finding finger prints on the windows from people looking wherever I go. It gets so much attention I'm starting to feel like a celebrity. Strangers coming up to me asking how it drives etc.

Buffing of the scratches in the plastic body panels is the fix that Honda and most body shops use. It does not change the finish on the vehicle. I don't know why but it works. As far as the scratches themselves go, I have yet to ahve any and have gone from CT to VT skiing, and CT to NJ shopping, 3200 mi. without a single scratch on the plastics. I know that if there is a problem with the vehicle scratching excessivley Honda is the type of company to do something about it in the future. I never claimed Honda was perfect just good. :wink:

To OrangeEman:
I don't think Simon or Me are so against the Element. After all, even though I was aware of the easily scratched panels, I still will take delivery of my Element Feb. 17. Because the vehicle has so many other positive attributes.
What we're saying is THERE ARE materials out there (and Honda I bet will use them on near future models) that are much better. And they can still keep Element unique look.
What I can't understand is why try to downplay an obvious flaw, if by pointing it out it will make the car better in the future. This is supposed to be an adventure type auto and they should have made those panels tougher. Whats so hard to understand about that?

P.S. Simon....Thanks for having the guts to help expose this issue. I'm sure you like the look of the Element as much as I do or you would not have came to this site.
Just tryin to make a great car better. Any comments?

I think it is great to voice concern and ideas..

but besure to voice them to your dealer as well and as them to express it to Honda.. simply screaming at a blank wall will not help.. So if you have issues, great share them but make sure you follow through with it.

It could also be a flaw with just your vehicle as well. I have no experienced these problems as well as many others here have not experienced them..

Definately follow this up with your dealer, to make ssure this issue is addressed & correct.

Since this is a message board, I thought this was an avenue to bring up ISSUES.
Talking about these problems on this site I don't think is screaming at a blank wall. It may inspire not only one, but many, to put a plan into action. You say you have not had this problem. Maybe your just not aware of it yet.
As it is, we notice the Rose before the Thorns.
Its been my experience and about 10 people that have been with me the various times checking out Elements, each and everytime they scratched easily compared to other vehicles made with composite materials. Those are bad odds, if at all.
And I would hope that those people out there who have noticed the same problem to write to Honda about this. Hopefully, we can get an address posted soon.
I also understand that there is a certain group of people who will never admit there is a problem. Its like the parent who thinks their child is perfect and can do no wrong.
As I said before, I bought one and I'm sure I'm gonna love it. Just not all those nasty scratches that I'm sure are going to show up, sooner than later.

[quote:d14812e0fc="ibutchman"]P.S. Simon....Thanks for having the guts to help expose this issue. I'm sure you like the look of the Element as much as I do or you would not have came to this site.
Just tryin to make a great car better. Any comments?[/quote:d14812e0fc]

Thanks. It will help all of us to get Honda to come up with a solution for the exterior panels. If GM can produce them, of course, Honda can do it.

Another guy was telling me that Dodge had a problem when you got near 60,000 miles (on a certain vehicle) the head gasket went bad and the antifreeze was brown and thick and the fix was expensive. He said on that discussion forum it was constant warring. Those with less miles that claimed they were very happy --> and those with 60K + that where up in arms over a $800.00+ repair. Those with less miles had no sympathy for the others and blamed them for less than stellar maintenance, that is, until a year later those same people had the blown head gasket!!!!

Hearing Gypsy's response at the top of this page makes me think they don't want this "ISSUE" to be brought up much longer.
"THIS IS AMERICA." :)
Enough Said.

ibutchman: not at all, i think it is great for us all to share experiences so we can be aware of potential or existing problems.. but i also don't want to see anyone not get what they should.. and I am simply expressing that this is a problem that they should also address to their dealer, perhaps it is a known flaw that can be remedied.

I love the looks of the Element, but I am holding off on buying one because of the scratch issue. Everyone I have looked at on various lots have been scratched, and I have noted that it is very easy to put small scratches on it with your fingernail. Base coat/clear coat paint would have been tougher. I hope they remedy this soon, as I would really like to purchase one.

The Element is a Fabulous concept. I driven 3 of them, and I'm sold. The EXT panels are the only big concern.

Saturn/GM are buying Honda Engines and Transmissions for the 2004 Saturn Vue (6 cyl 3.5) - so GM and Honda have a good relationship. I don't care if they get GM to make the damn panels. The cladding on the GM Avalanche is tough as nails, that is what Honda was going for and somehow the ball got dropped. I know it is not hard technologically - the stuffs been around. Honda has to move forward to get something that is
truly "durable and scratch defying" like Honda's own brochure states.

Body Panels & Paint... OK I see some confusion about what was stated by Honda for what the Element has.. and claims..

It says "Lean a bike against the TOUGH TO HURT body panels"
"Durable, scratch defying composite body panels".

That is NOT the PAINT and it does not say those PANELS are Damage Proof! It is the PANELS not PAINT they have spoken of.. and ok if they paint needs to be improved then it needs to be improved, but they did not state the PAINT was scratch resistant, that claim is for the PANELS.

OK so I hopes that clears up some confusion.

And this point should be looked at, seperatly if people are having paint scratching issues, if this is a broad problem I will hope honda will correct it, please share this experience here and with Honda.. so this can be something they can work on.. as you have seen in their past if there is a problem they overcome it, rather thoroughly!

If there is a problem with the panels.. those plastic grey exterior panels, lets look at that too.. is anyone experiencing such a problem with the plastic exterior panels? If so, mention it here and also make sure you tell you dealer.. again Honda is awesome at fixing any issues...

Now if this is the worst problem Honda has.. woo hoo.. heck as Simon mentioned, GM is looking to borrow Honda's engines, which I have read about before.. unfortunatley GM Has had nothing to offer Honda.. I find it hard to believe GM even has good paint, I have seen some nasty peeled up rusted (newer) GM vehicles.. so that is not a strong point for them either.. poor GM.

In fact to double checked something I did scan through Consumer Reports Reliability records for all Vehicles.. and when it comes to paint, trim & rust.. Honda blows GM away.. the only company close to Honda's awesome (everything) record would be Nissan & Toyota!

I'm in the process of tracking down some phone numbers and E-mail addresses of American Honda, so we can write and phone the Company with our concerns. I really love the car and hope Honda will put together a solution.
If someone out there can also find some contact numbers for Honda Headquarters or Engineering, it would be greatly appreciated.
Maybe Honda already knows about the problem, (its not that difficult to miss) but lets not assume that they do and together we can let them know how we feel about this.
And when Honda is contacted, also let them know about this site because it will be SO USEFUL with futures designs and decisions. I just know it will.
Thank You.

CUSTOMER RELATIONS HONDA CONTACT INFO:

By Mail
American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Honda Automobile Customer Service
1919 Torrance Boulevard
Mail Stop: 500 - 2N - 7D
Torrance, CA 90501-2746

By Fax
(310) 783-3023 (24 Hours)

By Phone
At our toll-free number: (800) 999-1009
For further assistance, feel free to contact Honda Automobile Customer Service. Our business hours are Monday through Friday, 6:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Pacific Time.

Honda Canada Customer Service
(888) 946-6329

and they add:

Your local Honda dealer is the first stop for any questions or concerns about your U.S. Honda vehicle. (This includes product recall and campaign information.)

Hope this helps!

Gypsy wrote:

Now if this is the worst problem Honda has.. woo hoo.. heck as Simon mentioned, GM is looking to borrow Honda's engines, which I have read about before.. unfortunatley GM Has had nothing to offer Honda..

I don't know about you Gypsy, but I don't like spending $24,000.00 and having a car covered in hundreds of scratches in a year or two, or even three. No matter how well it runs! And it will have those scratches, the material Honda uses for the fenders is just not good enough.
And you say GM has nothing to offer Honda. And as far as GM goes, yeah they have taken their lumps for car engineering.Let me add, this is my first Honda since 1975 and I hope I'm never so blinded by Brand loyalty to think that any company cannot offer a better solution.
But the Truth is the Truth, if GM can make a superior material, why can't Honda?
Lets be Honest.

P.S. Thanks for the numbers and info.
You next Element will be much better built. :)

Gypsy wrote:

Your local Honda dealer is the first stop for any questions or concerns about your U.S. Honda vehicle. (This includes product recall and campaign information.)


My salesman already knows about the concerns I brought up but I think if the buyers of these cars contact Honda, in numbers, that might be as effective if not more.
If Honda can not only hear from us but see this site, maybe they'll understand.
We will keep this issue alive. Not only for us but for future buyers of this product. Everyone deserves Information to make his/hers best decision.

ibutchman: absolutely, about keeping everyone informed and to calculate the issue further I have created a poll regarding this issue in POLL CENTRAL!

Good Idea!

thank ya butch, i appreciate the "good idea" comment :D

We can agree to disagree.
But give credit where credit is due. You have had many good ideas for this site.
And "we thank you".

aww shucks that ya..

Fear not I like to hear alternative view and ideas or thoughts that are not my own (contrary to what some may believe.. since I do voice my thoughts & opinions strongly.. just how i am.. ) :D

thank you again!

Gypsytda,

You say what is on your mind? No, not you :lol: :wink:

wink, nod, gotcha RML.. :P

I was not confused about the paint and plastic...I was simply stating that if the plastic areas had been painted metal (or plastic) it would be more durable that what is in place now. BC/CC paint is very tough, and if you do manage to put a small scratch on the CC, it will usually buff right out. I own two Honda Accords and could not be happier with them.

Gambitt: cool thank you.

It is amazing what a long way vehicles have come, mpg, engines, comfort, convenience, durability, safety, everything...

my favorite comment from old cars was when it was said "available in any color you want, as long as it is black"

things sure have changed and progressed, really cool I do think!

I still have to snicker when I see cell phones, i recall the monster my neighbor had when i was a kid, it was one of the first ones that was out (he worked for the government, soo he had some inside edge) it filled his trunk, tons of antenae, and the phone itself was the size of phonebook, then attached to a piece of large luggage.. and now.. oh boy!

Gambitt,
I understand what you were saying. It seems to me some posters are misenterpreting what we're saying. Trying to take attention away from what is the SUBJECT and obviously a flaw in the design of the composite fender panels on the Element, in the opinion of some of us.
I think the're taking it personally and they shouldn't. Its a great car "really".

P.S.
Who said: "I liked it so much, I bought one myself"
That applies to me as well.

Just wanted to add that I performed the fingernail test on my Element at lunch today. I'm sorry to say that it did scratch.

Look, I love this vehicle. I'm not a Honda fan (bad experiences in the past) but I truly love this car. That said, this is definitely a flaw that is unacceptable. ANY part of the exterior of ANY car should be able to withstand the abuse of a human fingernail. It makes you wonder what Element owners can expect those body panels to look like a couple years from now.

If a relative or somebody close to me me were to ask my advice on purchasing an Element? I honestly think I'd suggest waiting for version 2.0. I don't see this as a small issue.

tigernumber6: hopefully the body panels should be easy to replace, and perhaps something that honda might recall if there is enough of a complaint about it.. be sure to let your dealer & honda directly know too.

I love my element too, it is awesome, and I am more than willing to bear with these annoyances, and make sure they are cleared up.. and I hope everyone here will also be trying to do the same. together we can get the Element to be even better!

I checked with the people at stongard http://www.stongard.com, wondering if they were going to have patterns to cover the composite areas of the Element to give us some relief from scratches. Here is their reply:

****************************************
From: "Kerry Brady" <kerryb@stongard.com>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 2:39:01 PM US/Pacific
To: kevsong
Subject: RE: Honda Element
Reply-To: <kerryb@stongard.com>

We will only be covering the hood, and fenders for the Honda Element. We are hoping to have the pattern soon. I can email you once we receive the pattern.

****************************************
So, it doesn't seem that we have a solution yet, but I'm still searching

kevsong: Thank you & thank you for checking on that, do keep us posted with what you find.. what an awesome group of people we have here!

I don't think I have ever seen people trying to help each other so much in all my life.. i just had to share that note with you all.. So many here working on trying to get answers & solutions.. AWESOME! Thank you!!

Thank you Kevsong. Strategy along those lines is great, while at the same time pressing Honda to look into a fix and compensating/or fixing the E's already produced.

I have a nagging feeling that an aftermarket product is going to be the big fix. Honda has been tough to get through to, and tougher to get information out of. They're a big damn company.

I think some glossy carbon fiber type panels (not really carbon fiber, just the look of it) would be cool...maybe an aftermarket company will offer a bolt on customization kit of various textures and colors.

Gambitt,

I think your right.
They'll probably be an after market for a lot of add-ons seeing this is such a cool ride. 8)

Hey Guys and Gals.....

I sending out my e-mails and a printed letter to Honda right now concerning these composites. Its taking a little time out of my day (and .37 stamp) but its worth it because if Honda doesn't have a fix in the works, at least they'll know now that buyers are concerned about this issue. Maybe if there are some different addresses (Engineering Depts, Honda Design Depts) we can post other than the ones we have right now, that would be great.
I also sent an e-mail to the automotive writers for my hometown newspaper, not only praising the Element, but also voicing my concerns about the fenders since it seems all the reviews written so far by auto writers are virtually identical at this time.

I also included in my correspondence the address to our "Elementowners website." It should not only be a Joy for Honda to see our site but helpful as well. Hopefully they will.

Thank You all....Butch

[quote:ac4e5b28f2="ibutchman"]Hey Guys and Gals.....

I sending out my e-mails and a printed letter to Honda right now concerning these composites. Its taking a little time out of my day (and .37 stamp) but its worth it because if Honda doesn't have a fix in the works, at least they'll know now that buyers are concerned about this issue. Maybe if there are some different addresses (Engineering Depts, Honda Design Depts) we can post other than the ones we have right now, that would be great.
I also sent an e-mail to the automotive writers for my hometown newspaper, not only praising the Element, but also voicing my concerns about the fenders since it seems all the reviews written so far by auto writers are virtually identical at this time.

I also included in my correspondence the address to our "Elementowners website." It should not only be a Joy for Honda to see our site but helpful as well. Hopefully they will.

Thank You all....Butch[/quote:ac4e5b28f2]

No. Thank you. It could benefit all of us.

if you havent bought one wait i think there will be major problems with the plastic i have been back twice to the dealer to fix scratches in the plastic they still havent got it right i feel the plastic will look like junk in the near futiure honda needs to get on the band wagon soon or there will be a lot of people going to court over the poor quality of the plastic

Butch, thank you for sending a letter to Honda about the composites.. excellent.. and I think it would be a benefit if everyone with this issue would be the same, one person alone willnot be able to make a difference.. and if you want to save that 37 cents, fax them!

Most important the more people they hear from about this the more likely there will be a resolution to it.

I already spoke to Honda about this, but I will not let up.. I voiced a concern, and stated there are alot of Element owners concerned about this, and the tire cover cracking, that puts the bug in there ear, I do plan to keep following up with that!

Thank you again Butch!

Bubba,

Quick question, how did the scratches happen, and where are they? This info will help all of us.

i made the mistake of picking up the element at night the next day on one of the rear quarter panels there were scratches one deep the others smaller the honda dealership i bought from doesnt have a body shop which had i known i wouldnt have bought one from them they bought some body in to repair you can still see the scratch plus were they tried to repair more and more scratches have showed up i have checked other places and small ones have appreared from parking lots i am sorry i bought one i should have waited till they had this problem fixed i am sure i will be in court over this some time in the future honda has really goofed on this one the worst part is that people really dont know how to repair this problem

Being hot in the market for an Element, I was dismayed to see all the posts regarding the plastic panel scratchability.

I visited the Chicag Auto Show this weekend, so I made it my mission to test fingernail scratch every car with plastic panels at the show. Yes, I know, vandalism, but at least I wasn't stealing the shifter or radio nobs like everyone else.

Here are the results:

Honda Element - hard shiny plastic, when scratched with a fingernail, it left sort of a mar/shiny spot. Not hugely noticable

Chevy Avalanche - hard, but "soft touch" plastic, bumpy kind of like lizard skin - when scratched with fingernail, it left a gouge in the plastic, but not so noticable because of the textured surface.

Saturn Vue - Similar to Avalanche, slightly less bumpy, when scratched, left a noticable groove in the plastic, quite noticable.

Miscellaneous cars and trucks - as far as I can tell with my relatively soft little fingernails, all companies plastic panels can be scratched with a fingernail. Some are more textured than honda, so it doesn't show as much. On the otherhand, it looks like your car was made by rubbermaid. I think this is just something you have to deal with, at least its not rubbing paint off, and if you have to replace them, you don't have to pay for the painting!

Just my 2 cents.

Bubba,

No idea where the scratches came from?

I am trying to get an idea, so perhaps people can avoid getting them.

From what people are posting, those with scratches for the most part, have no idea where they got them from.

My E does not have a scratch yet, but living in NY, I am sure I will get a few.

Perhaps someone with in invention background can come up with a solution for this and make a mint.

You have said that you notified your Honda dealer, I would also say, write to Honda itself. If enough people with problems contact them, they might have a fix for it.

Good luck in court, if it comes to it.

[quote:5e5e6e6236="kendawson"]Being hot in the market for an Element, I was dismayed to see all the posts regarding the plastic panel scratchability.

I visited the Chicag Auto Show this weekend, so I made it my mission to test fingernail scratch every car with plastic panels at the show. Yes, I know, vandalism, but at least I wasn't stealing the shifter or radio nobs like everyone else.

Here are the results:

Honda Element - hard shiny plastic, when scratched with a fingernail, it left sort of a mar/shiny spot. Not hugely noticable

Chevy Avalanche - hard, but "soft touch" plastic, bumpy kind of like lizard skin - when scratched with fingernail, it left a gouge in the plastic, but not so noticable because of the textured surface.

Saturn Vue - Similar to Avalanche, slightly less bumpy, when scratched, left a noticable groove in the plastic, quite noticable.

Miscellaneous cars and trucks - as far as I can tell with my relatively soft little fingernails, all companies plastic panels can be scratched with a fingernail. Some are more textured than honda, so it doesn't show as much. On the otherhand, it looks like your car was made by rubbermaid. I think this is just something you have to deal with, at least its not rubbing paint off, and if you have to replace them, you don't have to pay for the painting!

Just my 2 cents.[/quote:5e5e6e6236]

Thanks for the update, That does ease my mind a bit,
Dave. :)

Just a thought, but since people are saying fingernails can scratch the plastic, what if most of the scratches you're seeing are from rocks and pebbles being flung by cars in front of you on the freeways and highways? I mean, a rock or pebble at 60-70 mph at the right angle could very well cause scratches I would think. This would explain the 'I don't know how they got there' problem. Do most of the scratches people are seeing go from the front of the car towards the back? are they horizontal or at an incline from road level? Are most of the scratches near the tires or the front of the car? Do people with splash guards notice less scratches? Meaning that the splash guards are keeping rocks and pebbles from flying up and hitting the car?

If you see up and down scratches, this would disprove this theory as I don't think a rock would jump straight up.

Just a thought,
-takr

Undertakr,

Good question, and good point.

I have the splash guards, and no scratches yet.

I would also say that a rock or pebble going at 60-70 mph could also dent paint, or crack a windshield. Just a thought.

kendawson,

I was at Detroit Auto Show. Me and some buddies tried like hell to scratch the Chevy Avalanche, But could not. At least with our fingernails.
we did however on the Element see hundreds of scratches (maybe a thousand? no joke!)some deep, some superficial and some just plain old scratches.
We looked very closely at other cars because I had already ordered my Element and I wanted to know if it was just inherent in composites in general or just Honda's composites. I was sad to find out that Honda's composites were of a much inferior material.
I still bought the Element only because I absolutely love the car and blessed to have enough money so if it is a real problem by next year I'll just trade it in on a hopefully new and improved Element.

GYPSYTDA,

Thanks so much for the good word! Just to let you know I finally got my Element :D And absolutely LOVE IT! The ride is beautiful and its so quiet.
I'm keeping an eye on the panels and will send some more faxes out concerning the composite fenders. I know in my heart that Honda's Engineers can come up with a tougher material (at least a little tougher)....thank you again....Butch

No scratches but I do have the splash guards. Perhaps that is all that is needed. I really am not worried about this since I can scratch the surface on any car if I try. I check every E I see at the dealers and I still have not seen one scratch. I sure am not going to try and scratch my own! :) Keep the post coming on this one.

If you HAVE scratches on your E's plastic, would you please complete this poll:

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=331

thanks

e-j

I wish they had scratch defiable interiors!

Cheers, Derek

Over the past 1 1/2 years I have accumulated a few very minor scratches on the composite panels, with about 17000 km (not a lot, but not none).

The composite panels also seem to accumulate dirt and get a funny greying happening to them, likely from UV exposure.

To renew them, and to protect them, I have given them an application of 303 protectant. This seems to help mask the very minor scratches, too. I apply 303 to all the plastic parts of the vehicle on the exterior and to parts of the floor and door sills where there is some scuffing wear showing, and it helps to renew those areas too.

I used 303 on my older (and new) Thule parts to help restore them.

303 makes everything look new!

Rage

there is a difference in ex and dx panel scratch dif i dont know
anyway ive taken mine (ex) offroading and scratched the h*ll out of the panels and wiped them right away with back to black and they never returned

My E's panels have been scratched courtsey of a finger nail or two when being washed. However I found a nice spray (found via the internet) that seems to do the trick. It was around $10 and can be applied repeatedly, as needed. Luckily no-one has tried to write their name(s) on my panels yet, using a key or other sharp object!

So is there a consensus on the best product / method of an end user fixing the scratches in their Element's plastic body panels?

I specify "end user" since I'm not interested in what Honda can do to fix the issue for the 2005 model year; I'm interested in hiding those scratches I have on the 2004 model sitting in my driveway - and no, I don't want to "buy new panels"

Someone mentioned "buffing" - can you be more specific regarding tools and buffing compounds?

Thanks!

You will make things worse. My take after 1 1/2 years with the car.
The initial easy scratching was created by the fresh plastic texture that comes out sharp out of the mold. Rubbing over the sharp peaks knocked out the tips of the peaks of the texture. The result was a white scuff. Over time with repeated washing and wiping the peaks would smooth over. It would scuff less and less. I could not understand earlier why my kids would step on the rocker panels and they did not scuff. They got smoother and finally achieved their promise of durability.
To smooth over the scratches or scuffs, mild solvents can do this. Apparently solvents available in peanut butter, Mothers Back to Black, paint thinner, mineral spirits, lacquer thinner will do the job.

Thanks!

Just to mention the latest stuff for plastic trim. The Honda spray can stuff fro scratches. There is now Trim Shine from Stoner. http://trimshine.com/ which has a pic of Ford escape bumper. It could be the same stuff as the Honda spray but cheaper. Also people are using Eagle Wax as you Dry. I trying all out now.

Hello everyone, I'm new to the site...Having read about the panels, I have a couple of questions about them..I live in Arizona and some days it gets hot,and the Sun shines all day, will they fade, and second, mine will be Nighthawk Black Pearl, are there two black colored panels, like maybe black, and not so black??? This site is Tite...Thanks for your time...BT