studded snow tires? [Archive] - Honda Element Owners Club Forum

: studded snow tires?


NHElement1969
09-27-2004, 04:27 PM
hey,

I always had snow tires for my CRV's, but of course, they will not fit my Element......hubby is pushing for me to get STUDDED snow tires.....never had them....does anyone have any thoughts/ideas/complaints and/or suggestions regarding the E and studded tires? Because I live in the woods, snow tires are a must....but not so sure about studded.......thanks! 8)

hownowcb
09-27-2004, 06:23 PM
Studded tires work great on ice or very hard packed snow, but those conditions rarely prevail for long in most of the continental U.S. Studs were last legal here in Minnesota back in the 70's. They were outlawed because they destroyed our roads in about 2-3 years.

Studs provide no advantage in freshly fallen snow, and are actually a disadvantage on wet or dry pavement. Unless you drive on predominently ice-covered or packed snow-covered roads, studs are a mental comfort, but actually a practical disadvantage.

In Minnesota anyway, the solution seems to have been to apply salt to the roads at a ratio of about 2" of salt for every 1" of snow. I can't say I like the effects of that approach either, but it's gotten to the point in my state, that unless I lived in a truly rural area, it would be a waste of money to even convert to snow tires anymore (as opposed to good four-season radials).

This is the kind of decision that (bottom-line) depends on what the road surface conditions are that you drive on most of the winter.

ramblerdan
09-28-2004, 09:49 AM
Having driven on both studded and non-studded snows, I have to agree with hownowcb: Studs help on ice and hardpack, but the rest of the time they actually hurt traction a bit. I found this especially true in the wet. They're noisy, and they're hard on concrete/asphalt, which is why in NYS you can only wear studs between October 16 and April 30 (http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/fall.htm).

Am leaning toward the Bridgestone Winter Dueler, aka Blizzak. Had Blizzaks on my Oddy and loved them, and they rate very highly in owner polls. Am concerned about tread life, though: Only the outside part is the tire has a soft, sticky rubber compound, and after that wears off (three seasons, perhaps), you're left with what is probably a so-so all-season tire.

Also still considering the Michelin 4x4 Alpin, which scored higher than the Dueler in a Tire Rack test--except on ice, where the Dueler/Blizzak rules.

Also well regarded (don't know if they're available in the E's standard size) are the Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow and the Nokian Hakkapeliitta.

Chin
09-28-2004, 03:52 PM
Michelin also has a new snow tire - the Latitude X-Ice. Nobody seems to have any anecdotal info about them, but hopefully they'll be good on the E...about $125 each.

Lowanhair
09-29-2004, 06:59 AM
I used studded snow tires the last year they were legal while I was stationed
in Misawa, Japan. Like the other posters said, good on hard pack otherwise no
difference than good non-studded snow tires. The roads there literally had
large ruts where the tires had worn away the surface deep enough you could
let go of the wheel and your car would track straight. Once the studs were
banned instead of buying new tires we had stud pulling parties. Bring your vice-
grips and beer! Boy what fun that was those suckers are tough to get out!
I don't know anything about them and living in Virginia I have no use for them
but I read an article a few months back about these new tires from a small
company that have embedded particles throughout the rubber. Here is the
link, if you buy them tell us what you think.

http://greendiamondtire.com/

RWP
09-30-2004, 08:10 AM
Yeah, I am looking for winter tires for the 04 E for up here on the eastern end of Lake Ontario, but am having a hard time stomaching the $600 for Blizzaks and steel rims...I ran Blizzaks on my old Subaru and will be running them on the wife's Saturn...they are the best tires for winter driving (experience in VT and NY)...tires are the only few sqaure inches that hold you to the road, so they are a bit important...just would like to hear from folks who have tried other tires....

ePod
09-30-2004, 11:15 AM
I used studded tires for many years, but in my experience, they really never lived up to the hype. If I lived on Vail or Sun Valley...maybe.

Go with one of the Michilin or Bridgestone's mentioned above. The real factor is how the tires perform in the wet which is where most of the driving occurs in winter.

ramblerdan
10-01-2004, 11:16 AM
Despite the discussion above, I'm seriously considering the Nokian Hakkapeliitta SUV [aka WR], which is studded. It's the only Nokian snow tire available in the Element's stock size.

EDIT: The Hakka SUV is available with or without studs.

The Hakkapeliitta family gets a lot of praise. Because Tire Rack doesn't carry Nokians, there's no side-by-side comparison on its site. The Blizzak might yet win on points, but the two-layered tread's longevity is a real issue. Argh.

JoeDOHC
10-04-2004, 04:04 AM
I got Nokian WR-T tires. Non studded, but even here in Alaska, the roads are plowed pretty often in the winter.

We'll see how they handle the Alaksa winter.

NHElement1969
10-08-2004, 04:56 AM
[quote=" "]Studded tires work great on ice or very hard packed snow, but those conditions rarely prevail for long in most of the continental U.S. Studs were last legal here in Minnesota back in the 70's. They were outlawed because they destroyed our roads in about 2-3 years.

Studs provide no advantage in freshly fallen snow, and are actually a disadvantage on wet or dry pavement. Unless you drive on predominently ice-covered or packed snow-covered roads, studs are a mental comfort, but actually a practical disadvantage.


Hey guys-
thanks for your responses-I am just going to get good ol regular snow tires, regardless of what hubby says....I have been pricing them and so far the cheapest i can come up with is $329 installed! eek! even though I hated the small size tires on my CRV's, they were a hell of alot cheaper! :? :shock: The stock element tires do seem a bit better than the stock crv tires, but considering where i live, how far i drive to work etc, I am not taking any chances and still getting the snows......... :lol: 8) Here in NH, it won't be long now.........

DOGBOX
10-08-2004, 10:10 AM
Here in Oregon, I would say that studs still prevail. At least that's my impression. They are legal and a lot of folks use them to help with icy roads and icy snow, which is what we seem to get. In spite of their poorer performance on wet, which we seem to get a whole lot more of. Go figure....

Jeff Valliere
05-17-2006, 03:36 PM
A little off season, but.....

I have the opportunity to buy some Wintermaster Plus studded snow tires on steel rims with two seasons on them.

I am curious if anybody here knows anything about this tire?

paulj
05-17-2006, 05:39 PM
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Wintermaster&tireModel=Plus
tirerack's description

dcorliss
05-18-2006, 05:41 PM
I believe they are made by copper tires

paulj
05-18-2006, 06:11 PM
Cooper's line of passenger snow tires are Weather-Master, and Discover M+S for SUV sizes. Under the Mastercraft label they make Courser MSR and Glacier-Grip snow tires. Wintermaster is under their Starfire label:

http://www.starfiretires.com/us/en/ProductDetails.asp?ProdType=SUV&id=283&title=SUV+Tires




paulj

vtzdriver
05-19-2006, 09:49 AM
I run 4 Cooper Discoverer M&S studded in the winter and the traction is excellent.
Tread pattern is slightly different, but I can assure you that these would be excellent traction tires.

SILFACE
11-05-2007, 03:00 AM
Hi All! This will be my first winter with the SC, have narrowed my choice of winter tires for the vehicle. Mainly the Nokian Hakkapeliitta 5 SUV or the Continental Conti4x4IceContact, but leaning towards the Nokians. Like the Nokians for their design & have been favored by many on this forum. I have read most of the past threads on winter tires, but haven't found any on studded tires. Would the studs on these wheels be an overkill if planning to do some skiing & pull a trailer carrying a skidoo to the northern parts of Quebec & Canada? Would the size 225/60R17 be the appropriate winter tire size on 17" mags for the SC?
Thanks in advance!

ramblerdan
11-05-2007, 08:28 AM
Silface,

This is a very good question and one I struggled with when I ordered my Hakkapeliittas. Can't make a definitive determination for want of side-by-side testing, but I ended up going without studs, and so far have no regrets. I have used studded snows in the past, and found the following:

1) they seem to be slipperier in the rain than equivalent non-studded snows;

2) once the points wore off the studs (well before the tread wore down past usefulness in snow), they were a little slipperier than studless snows under both dry and wet conditions;

3) in a real smooth glaze of ice, the studs didn't make a bit of difference--they merely scratched interesting patterns into the ice as I spun around; and

4) they're always noisy.

The Hakkas are wonderful in all conditions, and I'd order new ones without studs again. Whichever way you go, I'm sure you'll love them. It would be nice, though, to hear the experiences of those who do drive Nokians with studs.

ChicagoJim
11-05-2007, 09:15 AM
you don't need studs , they are absolutly horrible to drive on when the roads are dry so unless you're going to swap your tires out everytime it snows studs are overkill on a FWD Element . I've had studded snowtires on my Saab and although handled a little bit better then just regular ice snow tires , how bad they are when the ground is dry isn't worth it

PVR
11-05-2007, 10:08 AM
I had studded tires when I lived in Northwest B.C. and they were great. I travelled on lots of slick, gravel roads and the highways were always icy between November and March. In an urban environment, however, the noise, poor dry pavement performance and quick wear would negate their advantages.

I agree with the other posters. With Hakkas you will have a very good tire for ice traction. Studs are not necessary.

In terms of size, why not drop down to 16" steel wheels in the winter? You would have a better and cheaper choice in snows and you would keep your mags nice for summer. Also, narrower is better in the snow.

Twilightzero
11-05-2007, 12:11 PM
I know it doesn't make a difference to you there, but many places in the US have prohibited the use of studded tires if you're not emergency/police/postal. Personally I'd just go with the studless so you know you'll never run afoul of laws no matter where you go.

PVR
11-05-2007, 12:21 PM
I know it doesn't make a difference to you there, but many places in the US have prohibited the use of studded tires ...

Good point. It may impact silface - Ontario bans studs so it would affect travel to that province.

SILFACE
11-05-2007, 12:41 PM
Hi! Thanks for the information! I emailed Nokian customer service, which they also suggest to go studless(friction tire) in the area I am in. Think I'll go with the friction tire this time... They do look awesome though! Now need to get a good price on them!! Guess, I'll try to see Tirefactory.com for a price quote & club discount! Got quote in my area, close to $280CDN each with installation for the studded version.
The Rubber Association of Canada, gives the dates of when the studded tires are allowed on Canadian roads. Sorry neighbors, haven't found data for the States.
Would the 225/60R17 be appropriate for the SC?
Hi PVR! I purchased some practically new 17" mags off a 2007 CRV EX with sensors & all on Ebay! Came to same price as 16" steel rims with sensors... Now, how would it look on the Galaxy gray SC. Will post some pics when installed! Was thinking of installing Civic Si High performance mags with the same color as OEM presently on the SCs but Honda doesn't really suggest doing that.
Good day!
Rubber Association of Canada (http://http://www.rubberassociation.ca/wintertires.html#Nokian)

PVR
11-05-2007, 12:49 PM
... Got quote in my area, close to $280CDN each with installation for the studded version...

OW!

I say again, do you want to consider dropping down to 16s for the winter? I bet it would save you some money.

SILFACE
11-05-2007, 01:03 PM
Hi PVR! Thanks, U are right I would save dropping down to 16", but got my 17" mags for the winter... Have done some research in some prices... US prices are some $400 cheaper for a set of 4... Guess I'll take a trip to Vermont or something.

SILFACE
11-05-2007, 04:22 PM
Hi all! Just purchased 4 Nokian Hakkapeliitta 5 SUV friction tire at tirefactory.com. Best price I could find shipped to my door. Great communication with Ryan at tirefactory! If anyone is still looking for some winter tires, try tirefactory.com for a price quote!

PVR
11-05-2007, 04:30 PM
Good choice!

I have Hakka Qs on my other car and my son just got a set of Hakka RSis for his Mazda Protege. Hakkas are very grippy and last a long time.

Alaskan_Toaster
11-14-2007, 11:21 AM
Good choice!

Hakkas are very grippy and last a long time.

That's my biggest question - tire treadlife. Since Nokes are so expensive, and if I can go studless year round, I want them to last as long as possible.:roll::grin:

Thanks for the tip on tirefactory, will give them a call (even though US prices are cheaper, as you said, there still pricey). :):)

SILFACE
11-14-2007, 12:18 PM
Hi Alaskan_Toaster_Owner! Since U are a US resident, U will get free shipping; Lucky U! Don`t forget to mention, that U are part of the Element Owners Club, get $10,00 off each tire!

Good luck!

spdrcr5
11-14-2007, 12:18 PM
That's my biggest question - tire treadlife. Since Nokes are so expensive, and if I can go studless year round, I want them to last as long as possible.:roll::grin:

Thanks for the tip on tirefactory, will give them a call (even though US prices are cheaper, as you said, there still pricey). :):)

I am on my second set of Nokan WR SUVs on my Element and the first set lasted 55,000 miles. Can't complain about that at all. They are better than anything out there in all conditions and last 50k+... I will continue to buy Nokian's for as long as they continue selling them. :)

Glad people are using the Club Discount with TireDiscount that I was able to arrange.

SILFACE
11-14-2007, 12:23 PM
Hi Larry! Thanks for the information & discount! Will be installing tires tomorrow, can`t wait for the snow...
Have a good day!

Twilightzero
11-14-2007, 04:17 PM
What discount and where? *very curious*

:D

SILFACE
11-15-2007, 06:53 PM
Hi Twilightzero! It is the $10 discount at tirefactory.com that Larry arranged for the club. Maybe Larry (spdrcr5) can provide U with more information!

Etrigan
11-15-2007, 07:00 PM
Have not taken advantage of it as of yet,but my thanks go out to Larry:)
Long Islanders are the best:D

Twilightzero
11-16-2007, 08:32 AM
Hmmm...doesn't look like you can purchase tires from the site, only from their stores? And they're only in western states :(

lesdahlen
11-02-2009, 11:22 AM
I live in an area of the Northwest that gets snow and ice over the winter. My previous car was a Ford Freestyle AWD that handled well in these conditions, however we still needed to chain up several times last winter. I now own a 2005 AWD Element and was thinking of putting studded tires on it. Any suggestions pro or con on this issue?

I am looking at Toyo Observe winter tires as an option to studded.

PVR
11-02-2009, 11:29 AM
I used to use studded tires when I lived on the north coast of B.C. They are great for ice (either black ice or freezing rain) but lousy in ordinary wet conditions and even worse on dry pavement. There is no benefit to them over ordinary friction tires in the snow. The other major problem with studded tires is that the studs wear down very quickly on pavement, The tires cannot be restudded after any appreciable wear.

My $.02? If you get a lot of freezing rain or refreezing after a thaw in your area you may find them of benefit, otherwise the modern friction snow tires (I am running the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R this winter) are better for all winter conditions and have a lot longer useful life.

Island E
11-02-2009, 11:41 AM
If you're doing a lot of ICE driving, they may be something to think about. Snow? Not so much.
I ordered a set of Firestone Winterforce tires and they have the option of studs. I may think about it when they get here, but probably won't do it.

The place I ordered them from said that he's actually seen the tire wear out around the studs before the studs were gone. The ones they have are some kind of crazy outer space sourced, super duper hard metal I guess.

vtzdriver
11-02-2009, 12:00 PM
I run 4 studded Cooper Discoverer snows on my E in the winter.

The softer tread compound means the tires will wear more quickly than a standard summer tire and the studs do not accelerate this.

Two years ago, I was on an interstate in Vermont where it was raining and 34 degrees. As you might guess, we reached a point where it became 32 and then we had glare ice. Cars and trucks were scattered everywhere, suddenly.
I had to hit the brakes hard and was certain I would join them. I was surprised how fast I slowed, maintained control and ran through the only clear lane of all those casualties. The rest of my 40 mile trip was fine, even as many drivers were pulled over, unable to go anywhere.

They are noisy, but the E isn't the quietest vehicle on the road anyway.

slimerdogs
11-04-2009, 06:55 PM
I run studded on mine as we have very steep and windy roads here and a lot of black ice. I have then on 15" CRV rims and swap them out a few times in the winter as like others said they will loose a little traction on dry roads and the rubber compound wears out quicker. Its neat folowing someone with studs at night as it will throw off sparks while you drive on dry pavement. I have my own studding equipment and it saves a lot of money.