After reasonable attempts to solve my rear window leaks, my dealer and American Honda have informed me that a Honda engineering will issue a (recall?) bulletin for replacing the seals on both of the rear door windows. All members should carefully check the inside bottom edge between the glass and rubber molding of their rear door windows for water. If you look closely, you will most likely see water between the rubber and the glass. It is a safe bet that all of the windows leak to a degree, since the latch mechanism is not able to supply enough pressure to stop water coming in from someplace higher on the window. I assume the new rubber moulding will be thicker. Also the pressure created inside your Element when you close your last door might also cause the window to push outward for a split second just enough to leak. This window molding is a water collector by design anyway. :idea: I hope they have enough sense to make the molding large enough to eliminate the water pooling and drooling you often will see after you finish detailing. :idea:

Will they be notifing all Element owners?

I haven't noticed any leaking....but I would bet over time we will all experience this issue.

I would guess not since it involves 15,000+ Elements. It will be interesting to see how this design defect is handled.

There's nothing on hondacars.com Owners Link yet.

Didn't mean to cause a problem.My inentions were to educate and not make this a one sided thing I'm sorry that it did not come across that way. I shall retract my statement. This was not meant to be personal but educational.

I talked with Matt by phone today about this issue and have removed this post and all my others as promised. I believe that Matt did not intend to offend and he shared with me that he realized that he had unintentionally written something that would be read as discrediting and this was not his intention. I beleive him and find him to be a true gentleman and a man of his word. I will look forward to giving his dealerships service department another chance. Thank you to all who have tried to help here with this problem

This post removed by RVDIII...

Hey RVDIII, you need to chill, dude. Your post actually says a lot more about you than it does about the dealership. Let's try to keep things in perspective, shall we? We're talking about a window seal and a few drops of water...not the transmission falling out on the highway or something. Deep breath...and exhale.

deleted by author

Both rear windows on my E leak, one worse than the other. The leak was evident the day after delivery when it rained overnight. I advised my dealer and later took it in to have it looked at. I was told that Honda have had a lot of feedback on this problem as a result of a significant number of instances of leaking on one or both rear windows and any salesperson or service technician at a Honda dealer would have access to that information. (Though not a specific fix at the time).

By the way, what I found curious is that after drying the area where the leak occured, I tested it with a pressure hose and got no leak. However, the next time it rained the leak returned. The dealer said this is consistent with many of the complaints that Honda have received. I can't help wonder, since the seal is very pliable material, if the pressure hose isn't simply pushing it up against the glass and causing it to seal properly.

This post removed by RVDIII...

Why are you shouting (using the heavy bold type)? Certainly there have been some posts about leaking windows, but to expound on your unfortunate experiences with their service department - well the both of you may want to take this issue to the PM's and not to a public forum.

The problem with the leaking windows have been reported, and the majority of us are quite capable of detecting leaking windows for ourselves and if reading this forum can also obviously tell more than 2 reports of leaking windows have happened across the country thereby invalidating mr. bears statement. Speaking only for myself, having owned various Honda's over the years, any recall was handled swiftly.

My windows don't leak - that is lucky for me. I am sorry for the users that have this problem, but really you don't have to shout.

Is bold shouting? OK! I took it off! I don't usually shout, even when I am pissed off! I just liked the way it looked.....Thanks for your support.

deleted by author

There is a poll running at "POLL Central" for our members who have rear door window leaks. If you are having a problem please post your experience there. Thanks

please learn how to spell and structure a sentence correctly. I don't remember when we voted you as our representative and I'm not impressed with your diatribe. :roll:

This post removed by RVDIII...

I think you're losing it!! :(

This post removed by RVDIII...

This post removed by RVDIII

The info about leaking windows is useful to owner and prospective owners...the rest of the back and forth is fairly infantile and the insults not imaginative enough to be entertaining.

Enough already.

Well stated Billybud. Let's get back on track with our leaky rear door windows.

Here is my original attempt to help and inform again:

After reasonable attempts to solve my rear window leaks, my dealer and American Honda have informed me that a Honda engineering will issue a (recall?) bulletin for replacing the seals on both of the rear door windows. All members should carefully check the inside bottom edge between the glass and rubber molding of their rear door windows for water. If you look closely, you will most likely see water between the rubber and the glass. It is a safe bet that all of the windows leak to a degree, since the latch mechanism is not able to supply enough pressure to stop water coming in from someplace higher on the window. I assume the new rubber moulding will be thicker. Also the pressure created inside your Element when you close your last door might also cause the window to push outward for a split second just enough to leak. The damn window molding is a water collector by design anyway. I hope they have enough sense to make the molding large enough to eliminate the water pooling and drooling you often will see after you finish detailing. Thanks

I have since learned that dealer or owner pressure testing the windows is useless. The Element's windows seem to leak for members sitting in the rain overnight the most. (See the previous posts) Thanks to all and Billybud

Wow! RVDIII you sure have a lot of time on your hands.
Do you have kids? Have you ever been a supervisor for at least a year or two? Have you served in the armed forces?
Answers to these questions would explain a lot. No offense intended.

I agree that I too might be offended as you were. But you took it personally. I really believe that you could have bested the dealer rep ( I think his name was Matt? It was so many posts ago...) by being the bigger man and forget trying to teach him a lesson. I suspect from many years of being a supervisor that you taught him nothing. Perhaps the only thing he learned is that when he errs, he will belittled and ridiculed. Does he owe an apology, I would expect any of my employees to apologize under these circumstances. I would then ask my customer to bring all future issues and problems with my employee directly to me and to never belittle my employee again in public.

I believe that there is responsibility on both sides of this issue, however in the court of public opinion, I really believe that you would lose this one, if you haven't already lost it. By the way, I am no youngster and the "wipe you nose" thing... ??? 8)

Speaking as a mod, as well as a guy who has been around the block a few times.....

No one cares about anything here other than someone had a problem with a dealer. OK. Done issue.

Now, the issue of a leak on the rear windows. Now, this is what we are here to talk about.

One sales person, or service person did something. I feel it has been gone over quite enough. Nothing more need be said. It won't solve the issue with the window.

Does any dealer on the board know if we are going to get a recall on this, is this a big issue, is Honda working on it?

This post removed by RVDIII...

I have learned the following from various club members with this problem:

Dealer or owner pressure testing the windows and car washes are useless to test for rear door window leaks. This seems to be true in most case. It appears the pressure of a car wash or a pressure washer seems to push the window against the seal and no leak occurs. In member postings and with both of my doors, the Element's windows seem to leak the most while sitting out in the rain overnight. This is when all owners should check their rear doors window seals for puddling. In time, it is my guess that as the window seals get old and dry out, everyone will experience this at some point. I hope Honda does institute a recall for this design defect beyond just a bulletin. American Honda has callled me three times to tell me that their engineers are working on a redesign to correct this problem. I would like to suggest that all concerned Element owners call American Honda to request a recall regardless of your current leaks or no leaks. It will not be a good thing in the future, when your seals dry and shrink of course, and your warrantee has expired. The latching system is not the strongest either! I have faith that American Honda will do the right thing for us. I hope this is helpful. Thanks to all

In my case I went to my dealer who examined the problem and identified the fact that as the windows actually latch shut, pressure on the seal is reduced. The seals themselves appear adequate, but they think Honda's answer will be to change the small plate on the latch that bolts to the door frame to allow the latch itself to be moved perhaps 1/8 inch inboard. They think, but don't yet know, that this would be sufficient to seal the windows properly.

Meantime, I sat in my car while the windows were sprayed with a high pressure hose and I could visibly see the window being pressed more firmly against the seal. Not only that, but when directed from underneath I could see that the bottom part of the seal was pressed upwards. I chalked the seals and the leaks during a lengthy period of rain appear to come from the rear 1/3 of the window on one side, and the trailing edge and rear part of the top of the other. Since the E is designed to be washed out and is basically water resistant, I'm not greatly concerned at having to wait for the dealer to come up with a solution - they promise they will, and since they take my fault report seriously, I have no reason to doubt them.

I have found through life experience that the worst thing you can say to an angry person is, "calm down". Telling an irate individual that they are over reacting just heightens the tension and causes them to push their position even stronger whether they are correct or not.

The best way to diffuse the situation is to to agree that there is a problem and ask what it is that the individual would like in order to satisfy them. This lets the person know that you are listening and are willing to try and work things out with them.

Once passions are cooled, actual solutions can be reached...

Za9ra22, Wow! You are good! You were pretty damn thorough and very knowledgeable when it comes to investigating leaks. I agree with the observation that the window moves away from the seals as the locking lever peaks and then snaps closed. I will share that my recommendation to the service department was the removal of the latch closure arm and the bending the latch arm in slightly. This unfortunately did nothing to improve the problem. It did not cross my mind to chalk the seals, since this is the first vehicle I have owned where I have encountered window leaks. An engineer friend pointed out that, when you look for seal leaks while in a car wash, all powered intake ventilation needs to be turned off. He said it would make a difference if I had the heat or air conditioning on while in the car wash. He pointed out that the outward positive pressure at the seal leaks with air leaking outward would also prevent water from leaking in. Like trying to pour water into a pinhole in a balloon. This makes perfect sense to me. The issue to consider that complicates a latch fix is the fact that the hinges on the opposite side are not adjustable according to my service department. I think the hinges will need to be addressed as well in order to even out the pressure created on both sides of the seals.

Thanks for your response to my original post. Helping each other is what this site needs be all about. Our goal should always be to support each other to find solutions and sharing the pleasure of the mutual ownership of a great new vehicle. It is incredibly self-defeating to go out of you way to attempt to discredit fellow members and especially foolish to initiate insults, name-calling and mean-spirited negative criticism. I regret even responding to these slights and insults and I sincerely apologize to you for the disservice and to all club members as well. This morning, when I did cool down, I removed my extremely angry responses from my previous posts. Thank you for your reasonable words and working towards a helpful positive solution.

Also, I would love to see more picture if you decide to install the rest of your carbon fiber dash. What you have done so far looks great! I may do the same kit myself. If you could PM me with any observations, ideas or pitfalls or the location of your related posts, I would be appreciative.

Alien Element, Well stated! Thanks for your words.

RVDIII,

I'm sorry you took my reply personally. That was not my intent. my intent was to simply educate everyone as to the information I am privy to. Honda has not issued a recall in regards to the window leaking. Yes, Joe is a phenomenal service writer, and a very professional individual to boot. Again, my reply was not ment to be personal and I'm sorry you took it that way.

Thanks Matt. I enjoyed our conversation by phone and have no reason to doubt your sincerity. I have removed all my post that refer to this issue as promised. I look forward to giving your Service Department another chance. Thanks again. You are a decent and responsible man and a gentleman. I will continue to help try to solve this problem we all share. I agree with you that a redesign of the molding will most likely be the final solution.

I too have removed my confrontational posts. i am glad you worked things out and i will think twice next time before attacking.

My respect and admiration to you Dexter19. We have all learned something here... It certainly gives me the confidence in this forum that there are not going to be too many problems that we cannot solve as a group working together with mutual respect. It will be interesting to see what Honda comes up with for this problem. Thanks.

RVDIII

:D

RML

:D Right back at you! Also, I've told my last lawyer joke in your honor!

Have a great one RML! :wink:

To all club members:

There is a poll running at "POLL Central" for our members who have rear door window leaks. If you are having a problem please post your experience there. Thanks to all.

Just to bring eveyone up to speed, as of so far today, there is no recall on anything on the Honda Elements. Nothing on the windshield. Sorry guys.

There may be a service call on it, but no recall.

I called my Honda Dealer < the biggest in the Chicagoland area > and they don't know anything about the windows leaking. I also called Honda Corp customer service and they don't have a recall nor they will admit anything is wrong with the windows. So now, do we have to wait to see if Honda will have a replacement of the seals soon or should we get our swim suits on :D The rainy season is here and i don't want water on the seats and water within the driver side plastic panels.

P.S> My leak is comming from the little rubber seal above where the "B" pillar suppose it be. Anyone has the same problem like myself?

This past Tuesday my dealer replaced the whole driver side seals and guess what..... the leak started again last night from heavy rains. The new seals is 85% better than previous but i would like to get this resolved. I called Honda and they gave me a case number and a engineer will give me a call in 3 to 5 business days. I sure don't want a rusted out door when my 3 year/36 miles warranty expires :shock: The pop out windows still collect water between the seal and the window but my dealer said his mini van does the same so i am not worried or should i ??? What if the seals dry out and shrink after my warranty, how much would it cost to replace the seals or would Honda replaced them for free?

I just checked(since it's pouring here in Florida) and one of the rear windows was a little wet around the inside seal. Guess I'll take it up with the dealer when I have my first service? It looks like the handle on the rear window may be adjustable to pull the window tighter against the rubber moulding.

The only reason I noticed the leakage was from reading it here. The amount of water is minimal, its not dripping down inside or anything. I have not called my dealer because I don't consider iy a big issue. I now have 475 miles on my Element and LOVE IT.

I just got a call from the dealer and he said it's 99.5% better. I asked him what about the 1/2% and he told me there might be a small drip here and there but Honda of America did everything possable to fix my 2 day problem. The dealer said no new moldings in the works but he will give me discounts on service and/or maintanance on my E so i am happy in a kind of a way. It's going to rain in a few more day's and i will post later

Just picked my Element back from the dealer after having them check out the leak from the rear. They said they worked on it tighten up a few things and then hosed the car with a high pressure hose with no leaks. Hopefully this has solved my problems.

Element,

95% fixed. I hate to say it this way, but would you settle for that if someone else was doing a job for you.

Well, we put your new roof on your house, and it is 95% water proof?

Your dentist, well, I got 95% of the cavity fixed?

How about a Doctor, well, I got 95% of the sponges removed from you after the opperation.

Oh come now. Why is it that some leak and others do not. I know I would not settle for 95%. I paid for a new car that does not leak, and had mine leaked (it does not), I would have told the dealer, well, get me another one that does not leak, or fix this one.

Not knowing what state you are in, I can only speak for the law here in NY. There is a lemon law where by, if they can't fix the car, they get you a new one, or give you your money back. That is pretty much what I would want, and push for.

I hate to be a pain to my dealer, but that is why they get paid, and after all, you did pay for a new car.

Jayharley,

I spoke to a few dealers and yes, condensation < between the seal and the window > will occur when it's cold outside and it is normal as long it dosen't leak inside of the car.

Now this is day 3 and the dealer goofed in my seal installation and now he has to over night the seals again The service manager told me that the seals wasn't installed right from the factory and that's why i have a leak to begin with. At least i have a rental for 4 days until i get my car back on Monday, i hope

Yes RML i totally agree that if i buy a new car, i should get a new car. I wrote 99.5% fixed by the dealer, not 95% that you wrote :roll: But.... since the dealer glued the seal wrong, if have to wait until Monday for my E :evil:

Element,

Actually, I just picked a number, I did not go by your post.

As long as you are happy, that is all that matters. :D

I was just trying to make a point that you pay for new, you should get new. You pay for a car that does not leak, you should get that.

AGREED :D

Hi to all, My new rear "experimental" rear door window seals were installed last week. They are a new design and a new part number directly from American Honda. I was slow to bring my E in and the dealer service manager said that American Honda had called a few times and was irritated that I did not come in yet. The seals appear to be thicker and the seal seems much tighter. Since the previous seals only leaked when it rained, I have nothing to report because we have had only had sunshine in Connecticut since installation. Rain is coming by the end of the week here and I will report back.

RVDIII,

Thanks for the update on your new seal. my E was built last week and with how often it rains in SF it may be some time before I can check for a leak. But when it does eventually rain here, maybe those newer seals will have a TSB. Could you post the new part number just in case?

Thanks.

Ny dealer tighten up the back door and so far no water. Hopefully I won't need the new seals.

The seals that were replaced were my rear WINDOW seals, just to be clear. The dealer informed me that the seals had a new part number, so I do not have the number and I don't know if they are in production or not, I think American Honda is waiting to see if they help this problem before they produce the seals. These seals ONLY leak when it rains. Water leaks in at the top of the seals and collects at the bottom of the seal between the glass and rubber seal. Sometimes it is a small amount and subtle. Sometimes it leaks over the seals on to the door panel, mostly after a rainstorm overnight. Pressure testing does not work to find the problem. (See earlier posts) Everyone should check around these seals after their E. sit through a rainstorm.

My dealer still has my E since last Tuesday! I have been driving a rental since Friday but much rather drive my own car.

RVDIII.....my pop out windows do not leak after it rains but is it normal too see water between the window and the seal < located at the top of the window > My dealer says it's normal as long it doesn't come inside. Their is hardly any water at the bottom of the windows between the seals.

Thanks

"Condensation" as they put it is not a problem if this is the case with your E as long as it is outside the window. Inside is another story.

Let me know if you get a part number on the seals. They also tried a high pressure wash with no results. It's suppose to rain this week so I'll see if I have any water on the floor.

High pressure does not do it. (Read the posts on this thread) Overnight rain does but not enough to make it to the floor. The water collects at the bottom of the seal and the ridge 1/4 inch from the window. At it's worst, a small amount of water that collected inside the seal, ran down the top of the door panel. In time, this can only get worse. Seals shrink with age.

Thanks RVD,

I just got a call from my dealer and it took 9 long days for them to fix the leak. The dealer rest assured me that they tested my car < Monday and Tuesday > for 2 days in normal rain conditions in there dealership and everything is 100% fixed! I will be getting my car Thursday morning to see if their any scratches, gouges, paint chips, dirt inside or outside of my car before i leave their lot.

P.S......Cross your fingers guys :D

The best of luck that everything is OK!

Thanks,

I finally got the car back this morning. There was about 1/4 of an inch of water in the coin box due to the 2 day rain test at the dealership.

I wasn't worried since the dealership will honor any problems if there was a short in the cruise and fog light switches.

I have to go back tommorrow morning so they can clean the hand/finger prints on my inside cloth roof and adjust the driverside window blk plastic panel which was loose.

I hope to test my new seals next week too see if it works.