Worn Tires [Archive] - Honda Element Owners Club Forum

: Worn Tires


TeeJJ
01-12-2005, 03:37 PM
We have Goodyears on our 1 year old E with 17,000 miles on it. The front tires are already worn down enough that the dealership has recommended replacement. The ones on the back are still good. We had it checked to see if there was a problem with the front end, dealership says there is none and we need to buy new tires. I have had many cars and tires in the past and feel that the wear is unusual. I am not happy with our dealership as they refuse to deal with our cracked windshield (our E is out of the recall parameters) and now this. Has anyone else had problems with their tires wearing out early and more so in the front than the back?

Type X
01-12-2005, 04:05 PM
We have Goodyears on our 1 year old E with 17,000 miles on it. The front tires are already worn down enough that the dealership has recommended replacement. The ones on the back are still good. We had it checked to see if there was a problem with the front end, dealership says there is none and we need to buy new tires. I have had many cars and tires in the past and feel that the wear is unusual. I am not happy with our dealership as they refuse to deal with our cracked windshield (our E is out of the recall parameters) and now this. Has anyone else had problems with their tires wearing out early and more so in the front than the back?


I can't mention it enough how people need to stop delaing with jerkoff dealers
and just call honda corp

Call them file a complaint
than you will see the stealerships attitude change
AND if it doesnt CALL AGAIN

chulwoo
01-12-2005, 05:19 PM
Hi,

Is your E FWD or AWD? I heard you can spin FWD relatively easily, which might have contributed to the wear on the front tire, but still rather disturbing, after only 17K miles..

paulj
01-12-2005, 05:54 PM
Tire warranty issues are normally handled by the tire manufacturer, not the car dealer. Some people have gotten prorated credit on their worn tires from Goodyear dealers. I'd suggest taking along service records to prove that you had the tires rotated at recommended intervals.

Rapid wear of the tires, especially the front ones has been discussed a number of times. Any front wheel drive car will wear the front tires faster than the rear ones, which is why we rotate them. There is some indication that the Element wears its tires faster than some other cars. It also appears that the Wrangler HPs are fast wearing tires. Their wear rating is a so-so 340 (see the tire wall). But as long as the alignment is within specs, the fast wear is Goodyear's problem, not Honda's.

So either try to get credit from a tire dealer, or just take the opportunity to get tires that you really like.

Regarding your windshield. If the glass shop found roughness on the window frame that could have caused the crack (as opposed to a rock hit), I sure hope you recorded that find, and sought restitution from Honda - and made sure the roughness was corrected.

paulj

trickyvick
01-12-2005, 07:54 PM
I found an "extended test drive" by someone (Car and Driver?) and one of the few main complaints was that they wore out the tires in 12k miles.......that and the latch for the rear doors bang them in their head when they get out.

Maybe you need to back off of that 2.4 l engine and rotate more often??? If you are located somewhere near me, I have a 4 piece set of take-offs from an LX.....I only wanted a pair of rims for snow tires but the dealer would only sell as a set.......

G

joemama
01-12-2005, 08:07 PM
I think the "Goodyear" on the side wall of my tires is not so much a name of the company as the expected life of the product.

Good-For-One-Year

Crappy tires!

Sure my tires need replacing but I just keep on drivin' it.

TeeJJ
01-12-2005, 08:23 PM
Thanks for all the replies! Our E is AWD and hubby has a tendency to ride the clutch a bit....so I'm sure we are somewhat responsible for the wear but still....only 17K? I have been reading many posts regarding recommendations for tires. I have gotten a quote of $347 for a set of Yokahama Geolanders with a 50K warranty. Does anyone have other recommendations or experiences? As far as the windshield goes...I called Honda HQ to file a complaint and they stood up for my dealership. We are going to be taking it to a dealership in Denver this weekend to see if they will help us out with the windshield prob.

Urvile
01-12-2005, 10:10 PM
That is a ridiculous amount of miles for a tire to need to be replaced. I have 40K on mine, and they are just now becoming due for replacement. Your tires have wear tread wear indicators, see page 251 of your manual for details, and you can use these to eyeball how much tread you have left.

As a note on tire issues, I did have a tire fail, and Honda did inform me that all warranty issues with the tires had to be through the manufacturer, as another poster mentioned. Just Tires was the Goodyear service agent I went through, and they treated me very well. Their investigation was inconclusive as to the cause, and they did everything right in front of me when they were checking it out and explained it very well. So, they gave me a very nice Uniroyal at cost, which seemed a reasonable solution.

trickyvick
01-13-2005, 08:49 AM
Well, the report from Car and Driver or someone else warned me about it...but with 10k on mine...they are looking pretty good...and with a new set sitting in the garage and waiting to be mounted.....I have no complaints yet.

"But, the Element is not just a box on wheels. It is a box of pleasant surprises. Quirky looks not withstanding, it strikes a nice balance of form and function." - Motortrend Mag

DOGBOX
01-13-2005, 10:00 AM
I have had Goodyears (incl other models of Wranglers) on my truck for years and have had pretty good success. Nothing great, but definitely reasonable. I also have my local Goodyear place do all oil changes, rotations, allignments and most routine maintenance on my truck. This past weekend I was having tires put on my truck and I mentioned the Element tire problem to the Goodyear manager. He was most interested in helping me out. Told me to bring the E in and they'd take a look, check the alignment, etc. Soon as I get a chance I plan to do just that. My E has 6500 miles on it, and I do not like the looks of the tires. Seems the shoulder sipes are way too shallow for wet weather driving that I need. I would tend to trust the Goodyear verdict on alignment, than Honda dealer. If Goodyear says something is out of line and that is causing wear, I will march my E right over to Honda dealer and make them get it right.

paulj
01-13-2005, 11:23 AM
The front tires are already worn down enough that the dealership has recommended replacement. The ones on the back are still good.

While the dealer is recommending replacement (of just the front tires?), what is your observation? Are they worn down to the wear bars?

The tread design on these tires does give them a bald appearance when they are half worn. The shoulder tread has shallow grooves that disappear with wear. However the wear bars are in the inner grooves.

When I replaced my HPs at 16,000 the tire dealer estimated they were half worn - that would be consistent with a 30,000 mile life. Other than a certain hardening of the rubber that normally occurs with age and wear, the dry traction of half worn HPs should remain good. However, the wet and snow traction appears to deteriorate fast with these tires. For example with the bald shoulders, lateral evacuation of water becomes poor.

The contrast between front and rear tires suggests a need for more rotation. If indeed the front tires are worn as I suspect (not down to the wear bars), you might get another 5000 miles of summer use out of the full set, if not more.

In your area, do people switch to winter tires much? Or do most make do with m+s rated tires all year around? It is probably safe to say that the HPs have an ok m+s rating in the first half of their life, but poor for the rest. For many this means they are fine the first winter, but poor the next.

I think you said something about manual transmission. I can see where that can contribute to rapid wear of the front tires - depending, of course, on the driver's style. Even with an automatic it is easy to spin the tires, until you learn to moderate the first few seconds of acceleration.

paulj

spdrcr5
01-13-2005, 02:03 PM
There is nothing wrong with your tires wearing down at 17,000 miles... did you ever rotate the tires? They really should be rotated every 5,000 miles to avoid early wearing of the tires. The front end is aligned with the tires toe'd in slightly. I don't know the exact spec's but figure about 1/16"-1/8" of toe. Not to mention caster and camber settings that are different from the rear of the car. The front also does the majority of the driving and all of the steering. This is why it is recommended that you rotate your tires every 5,000 miles so you can more evenly distribute the wear and tear on the tires.

I am very surprised that your dealer never mentioned rotating the tires. I rotated mine every 5,000 and when they were removed at around 17,000 they had well over half life left on them.

You say your husband rides the clutch... that is NOT a good thing, but it has nothing to do with wearing out the tires. What riding the clutch will do is wear out the clutch itself, destroy the pressure plate and overheat the throwout bearing. It is a horrible habit to get into and one that will lead you to post something on here within the next year about the short life of the Honda clutches and how the dealer won't help you with that, the worn tires and the windshield crack.

I'm sorry, but the only legitimate gripe it sounds like you have is with the windshield.

Have you done the Lincoln Penny tire wear check yet? For those that don't know what it is or how it is done Tirerack has done a nice job of explaining it here: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/replacewhen.jsp

If you have enough meat left on the treads; at least 4/32-6/32nds then I woudl swap front to rear and keep watching them. If you live in a rainy area you might want to bite the bullet and get 4 new tires. I don't think the Goodyear HPs are worth spending money on to purchase a replacement pair to match your two good ones. OEM tires generally cost more than other tires so you could probably get a set of tires for the cost of just those two Goodyear's.

TeeJJ
01-14-2005, 08:33 AM
I HAVE had the tires rotated as per the recommendations of the service warranty, they are worn down to the bars in the front (I DO know how to check for that), and I am a realist about my hubbys driving habits and dont plan on complaining to Honda about the clutch when it wears out (but I DO plan on complaining to the hubby!!!) My mother in law bought an Accord last month and is having tire problems on her car also. I think Honda is just being miserly and putting cheap worthless tires on their cars. I was told by a tire place here that OEM tires have no warranty so Goodyear will do nothing to help me. Between the windshield and now the tires, I am severly frustrated.

paulj
01-14-2005, 11:24 AM
I dug out the Goodyear Limited Warranty leaflet that came with my Element.
Here's a link to this warranty:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Warranty.jsp?make=Goodyear&model=Wrangler+HP&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&partnum=17HR6WRHP
This model does not have a treadwear warranty.

It is interesting that the Goodyear Integrity, which sells for about half the price of an HP (tirerack prices), has a 50,000 mile treadwear warranty. Its UTQG is 460 v 340 for the HP. It may be that few tires with a wear rating under 400 have a treadwear warranty.

I'm beginning to suspect that Honda put these fast wearing HPs on the Element because they thought they'd appeal to the 'performance' minded young target market. They aren't necessarily the cheapest tire they could have chosen. How the tire comes across during the car purchase may be most important to Honda. That could account for them putting a more car-like Integrity on the Pilot, and a supposedly 'high performance/off road' cross on the Element.

paulj

80honda
01-14-2005, 11:31 AM
By 10K miles, the front tires on my E were seriously worn on the outside edges. A trip to the dealer and a front end alignment fixed the problem. My E was way out of alignment.

Rycam
01-20-2005, 02:20 PM
I have 34,213 miles on my 2003 E and just replaced my original tires yesterday, 1.19.2005. They didn't last as long as I hoped but after hearing the stories on this subject, I think I did OK. I did have them rotated every 3K miles when I changed the oil... this helps a lot.

biocube
01-20-2005, 04:10 PM
amazingly, since i've been known to have a hot foot, especially cornering, my tires at 20k are just fine. still have more than lincoln on the sipping on the edges. and they only get rotated every 10k.

i wonder why there is such a huge difference in wear rates? rough roads? super hot foot?

Honu
01-20-2005, 11:22 PM
I HAVE had the tires rotated as per the recommendations of the service warranty, they are worn down to the bars in the front (I DO know how to check for that), and I am a realist about my hubbys driving habits and dont plan on complaining to Honda about the clutch when it wears out (but I DO plan on complaining to the hubby!!!) My mother in law bought an Accord last month and is having tire problems on her car also. I think Honda is just being miserly and putting cheap worthless tires on their cars. I was told by a tire place here that OEM tires have no warranty so Goodyear will do nothing to help me. Between the windshield and now the tires, I am severly frustrated.

It sounds like you are doing everything right, with rotation at proper intervals.
As you noted, the Accord has the same problem. We have a 2000 Accord and even its Michelins seemed to be a faster wearing than normal Michelins tires. Have you really compared tire mileage on ANY "modern" car? I suspect its similar "disposable" tires on most any car. I didn't know how bad my former 4WD truck's original tires were until I replaced them.

I figure they throw on cheapos because hardly any two people agree on what is a "good" tire and this gives people an early excuse to get their idea of a good tire early on. What I don't understand is the tire manufacturer's marketing idea on this. You would think they would want to make a really good impression to get customer loyalty. I will certainly never touch a set of Goodyear Wranglers again, even if they have several models they call "Wranglers". Although ironically we did put on a set of Goodyear Assurance Triple Tred to replace the factory installed cruddy Michelins on the Accord.

I got some trade-in allowance at a the Tire Factory towards Nokian WR-suv's and I am secretly happy I didn't have to wait to justify dumping the mediocre factory original Goodyears.

What is a "good" tire depends a LOT on YOUR needs. Many good rated tires do NOT come in Element sizes. Check out the messages in the Performance and fitments section of the forum.

I was looking between the Nokian WR-SUV and the Michelin LTX at the high $$ end in 225 size.
Or going SLIGHTLY smaller and going with something cheaper, maybe a cooper or arizonian(Discount tires) or GY triple tred. You will find plenty of suggestions if you search the forum.

Was the windshield break a rock ding or REALLY a trim caused defect? I had a rock ding recently which I had no qualms about getting fixed myself, but then a couple days later The Defect Crack suddenly appeared just above the lower right corner, starting from UNDER the trim. THAT I expect Honda to take care of. Tomorrow I will find out if they are ignoring all cracks or just rock dings, I guess, when I go in for "evaluation".

Hondamade4dogs
01-21-2005, 06:23 AM
Hey Road & Track magazine burned a set of tires before 17,000 miles...So tires are like shoes some are good, some are bad, it is the wear and tear you give them

bv_23
01-21-2005, 10:45 AM
my dealer just suggested tires at 31,000 and alignment. proper inflation is key, if you are driving a lot of hwy miles a high psi is not a bad idea. keeps less of the GY sidewall off of the road. maybe a tad bit more squirrelly(sp?).

anyways, 17K sucks but hey everything i read here everyone agrees the quicker you get rid of them the better we are. the improvement in ride and stability is much better with different tires.

Nat
01-21-2005, 01:47 PM
I have almost 41,000 miles on my OEM Goodyears. I've rotated them every other oil change (every 5000 miles). They still have enough decent tread to get me to 50,000 miles. I've kept them at about 46-47 PSI (hot tire measure).
Mine's an AWD DX so excessive front wheel wear wasn't an issue for me.

paulj
01-21-2005, 02:54 PM
Your high pressures may contribute to your relatively long tread life. It shifts more of the wear to center of the tire, where the grooves are deeper.

davel
01-24-2005, 05:48 PM
1. Check your tire pressure every 2 wks. Make sure you check them after a major weather change. Changes in atmospheric pressure will result in tire pressure changes. For SAFETY's sake keep them at the mfgr recommended pressures at a minimum. Incorrect and LOW pressure can wear your tires prematurely, and possibly lead to tire failure and a nasty accident at speed.

2. Rotate, balance and align at 5k miles

3. If you drive mostly city/urban miles - expect early tire wear.

JE_ELEMENT_TN
01-25-2005, 04:29 PM
23,000 miles, and I seem to have the same problem.... Maby pulling the parking brake up, and white smoking the fronts, is my problem...... Nah couldn't be.

juliecat4
01-27-2005, 04:31 AM
I had the same problem with the Goodyears, despite religiously rotating them every 6,000 miles. I also didn't like the slight rocking motion of the vehicle after turning corners. After asking a lot of questions, the salesperson recommended going with a bit wider tire. He said the tires on the vehicle were "tall & skinny", & that a wider tire would give me a bit more stability. I went with a pair of Michelins, which totalled around $750. The price kinda blew me away, but the Honda dealership wanted just as much to replace them with the SAME GOODYEAR TIRES! I can't tell you what a difference they've made in the ride and with ROAD NOISE! They were well worth the money, & I'd highly recommend making the change.

davel
01-27-2005, 09:14 AM
I had the same problem with the Goodyears, despite religiously rotating them every 6,000 miles. I also didn't like the slight rocking motion of the vehicle after turning corners. After asking a lot of questions, the salesperson recommended going with a bit wider tire. He said the tires on the vehicle were "tall & skinny", & that a wider tire would give me a bit more stability. I went with a pair of Michelins, which totalled around $750. The price kinda blew me away, but the Honda dealership wanted just as much to replace them with the SAME GOODYEAR TIRES! I can't tell you what a difference they've made in the ride and with ROAD NOISE! They were well worth the money, & I'd highly recommend making the change.
Hi! What model Michelin did you switch to and what size did you have installed. Im already planning to shift from the Goodyears and my E is brand new. I get the feeling at about 15k miles I will be looking for a solution them. Thanks for your time..DaveL :)

Cidriullo
05-09-2005, 08:29 PM
My '04 Element has 22,000 miles on it and the original Goodyear tires are borderline. I'll replace them before winter. It seems very early for tire replacement to me, but there is obvious wear, and they don't have a lot left in them. I've heard of the same problem from other Element owners. I've owned three Jeeps in a row before the Element, and got a lot more out of my tires. More than double the miles.

Chin
05-10-2005, 09:33 PM
Well.........what Michelins did you get? How have they held up/performed??? I posted a similar question on another thread, about exactly what replacement tires E owners are actually using, but no updates yet. I bet there are a lot of us not looking for 17", or 18", or /65, /60, etc., just normal, good quality replacement tires in our size range. "E"nquiring minds want to know. Seriously, though, real world info would be appreciated.