If any owners or potential buyers have questions , feel free to ask me.

I am a recent college grad from FSU, and just happen to work at a Honda dealership as a salesperson.

Being relatively young, the Element greatly appeals to me.

I have access to all kinds of information, and if any of you need help or answers I invite you to ask me.

I will try to respond to questions every day.

Thank you.

ooh, be careful of what you offer...heh heh heh

My wife is pregant............. The love action just isnt the same wanting to spice things up and try something different, I keep attempting to talk her into 'trying out the bed' seat arrangment :lol: . She said that if I asked her again she would roll my fingers into the windows and let me use the bed option all by myself. Is she serious? :?:

My wife is also pregnant. But I have not experienced any of the problems you have. The problem might be you. You may want to try to loose weight or work out to get her reinterested in you in an intimate way.

CLARIFICATION: if anyone has any element related questions, please feel free to ask.

Will,

Generous of you to offer to answer questions!

Can you confirm that Honda is taking orders for 5 speeds and side airbags?

Thanks.

Rob

Some dealers may be taking deposits on those vehicles, but we do not know when they will actually be here.
Side airbags were SUPPOSED to be available the end of this month, but I have not seen or heard of one yet.
The 4wd 5speed is SUPPOSED to be available in June, but once again Honda has neither confirmed or updated availability.
So even if you give a deposit on one of these vehicles, I could not tell you when it would be in with any certainty, only that it will be available at some point.

Will, I'm in eastern North Carolina and my keyless entry is on backorder. Are other dealerships across the US having any problems keeping keyless entry, extra stuff, or regular E replacement parts in stock?

When a new model is introduced, it is hard to judge which accessories are going to be popular. The manufacturer doesn't want to get stuck with a ton of accessories that no one wants. So small quantities are produced until the demand for each accessory is determined.


As far as Keyless entry goes, it is extremely popular, as are the seat covers and roof rack. We have had problems keeping them in stock at my dealership.

We did receive a shipment of the keyless additions 2 days ago, so your dealership should be receiving them soon. It all depends on how many your dealership has sold.

Appreciate your time and insight! I am very interested in purchasing an Element but am concerned with (not knowing what I am getting) since it is a first year model and there is no maintenance history. If you have scoured this board, you are probably familiar with the following concerns/issues:

Low Load Capacity (only 675 pounds???)
Leaky Windows
Dash Rattle
Flimsy spare tire cover (only supports 6d pounds???)
Window Cracks

Are these representative of what you are hearing/seeing? Do you know what's up with the Load Capacity?

And do you know when the 2004's will be out and what (if any) changes are in store?

Thanks! :?

Sorry, under (flimsy spare tire cover) it should read 65 pounds.

Hey Will,

Can you give me some information on towing? What is the suggested tongue weight and maximum load the element can tow. Is there a tow package with the current models or any comming in the future?

Thanks in advance :D

[quote:25860b6fd0="panama"]Sorry, under (flimsy spare tire cover) it should read 65 pounds.[/quote:25860b6fd0]

Has anyone actually broken their cover as opposed to just hearing the "cracking" sound? Some of the solutions in the forums have been really good (like the padding/stuffing ones).

Will,
This might be a little sensitive for you since you're a dealer yourself :P , but do you recommend buyers to purchase the extended warrenty? Also how much do you think is a fair price (7yr/100K)

Alright Will.......my wife ISN'T preggers, but can you tell me if a grill guard will be available for the E, like REAL soon? That square front just BEGS for a grill guard or brush guard, mainly because the front is PLASTIC and needs protection more than Armor-All!

Panama.

I understand your concern, especially with a first year production run vehicle.

Let me clarify the element a little bit. The engine and drivetrain are based on the CR-V. Which has a proven track record of reliability. The engines in the two vehicles are almost exactly the same. The real time 4wd system is taken directly from the CR-V. But the body is vastly different, and that seems to be where most of your concerns are.

My dealership has put over 50 elements on the road. According to our service department, these are the complaints so far:

One person did not like the way the automatic transmission shifted.
That is it.

No window leaks, no sunroof leaks, no dash rattle, no seat rocking.

As far as the CD skipping goes, i have heard rumors to that effect, but only if you opt for the 6 disc in-dash changer, which is an option only on the DX model. No complaints on the EX sound system, only compliments so far.

Ths spare tire cover is indeed rated at 65 pounds. So i performed a test on it. I stood on it, or hunched over on it actually, I wiegh 230 lbs. i heard a little bit of creaking, and when I stood on one foot I heard a cracking noise. Upon inspection of the cover I could find to cracks or dents despite hearing the noise.


Will

I have heard many concerns over the vehicle wieght limit. Let me illuminate. The capacity is placed in the doorjams to avaoid possible legal battles. The braking distance, turnover rating, impact rating, 0-60 times, and all other performance claims are based on having less than 675 pounds in the vehicle. It doesn't mean you cannot have more.

The wheels will not fall off, and your warranty will not be void if you place more wieght in the vehicle, it just may take longer to stop and have a larger turning radius and more body roll.

If you think the vehicle capacity is too low on the element, you might want to look at the capacity of its competitors, which are all within about 125 lbs of the element.

Will

I have heard no updates for the 04 element model yet, which does not mean there wont be any. Most first year production vehicles have at least a couple of changes in their second year. The CR-V, which underwent redesign in 02 had a headlight change for 03 and that was it.

I do know that no engine changes are in the works, so any changes that occur should be cosmetic only.

TOWING--the element has a 1500lb tow capacity, and a recommended tongue load of no more than 300lbs. You can get a honda towing kit with the element. it should be around $800. We have not put a towing package on any of our elements yet, but a few have gotten aftermarket hitches. One of my customers pulls his jet ski's to the beach and back with it. He said it tows great, but that is the only experience i have so far.

Would I get the 7yr 100k? Good question.

I recently bought an accord, couldn't sell my wife on the element, from my dealership. I declined the 7Yr 100K.
The reason I did this was Honda's exceptional reliability ratings.
If I had bought the element, I might have decided to purchase the warranty, since it is a first year production run.

But keep this in mind; If you decline the warranty at purchase, you have the option to buy it at any point within the first 2 years or 24K miles at no additional cost. So if problems are experienced in the first two years, you can go ahead and get the extended warranty. If you element remain trouble free, you might want to choose not to get it.

Most sales people decided not to tell customers the service contract can be purchased later, because they lose the commision on it.

The only option available for the protection of your elements front end is a bumper cover. It helps protect, but not much. As of right now, no grills or guards are available for the element. no one has even made an aftermarket one yet. As far as future plans go, I have heard nothing about a grill guard, and Honda does not make one for the CR-V, which has been out for 7 years.

Hey Will, thank you for this opportunity. I am interested leasing an EX AWD auto. I don't care for any additional options or any particular color. My credit is excellent, though a bit 'full', but I don't see this being a problem. I would like to lease for 48/60,000 with no money down. What's the best your dealership can do for me? What is the trend on leasing for these Models? How dramatically would changing the term or mileage impact the monthly payment? How would putting $1500 affect the payment over the term? If I finish up the paperwork on May 1, what should I expect delivery, or should I? I know some of these questions are vague but I fully appreciate all your input as this is an excellent 'inside' view you are offering us. Your honesty is highly valued.

One last thing about the service contract. For a 7yr 100k warranty expect to pay around $1500.

[quote:d1372346ed="Will@Honda"]I have heard many concerns over the vehicle wieght limit. Let me illuminate. The capacity is placed in the doorjams to avaoid possible legal battles. The braking distance, turnover rating, impact rating, 0-60 times, and all other performance claims are based on having less than 675 pounds in the vehicle. It doesn't mean you cannot have more.

The wheels will not fall off, and your warranty will not be void if you place more wieght in the vehicle, it just may take longer to stop and have a larger turning radius and more body roll.

If you think the vehicle capacity is too low on the element, you might want to look at the capacity of its competitors, which are all within about 125 lbs of the element.

Will[/quote:d1372346ed]

This here is a sticky one. The numbers in the door are the DOT rated weights. Like you said it doesn't mean that you cant have more weight just expect performance to suffer. How many "half ton" pickups have you seen driving on the bump stops. The flip side is the potential legal liability if you are over the limit and are in an accident.

Vladmin.

I cannot quote you an exact price because of locale, dealership, and finance differences. There is also the legal issue. But this should help.

If you were a customer at my dealership in Tallahassee on todays date, and you wanted to lease an element EX auto 4wd, these number are my best good faith estimate.

With $0 out of pocket for 48 months, 15K a year, you are looking at approximately $324 a month with all taxes and fees included.

With $1500 out of pocket for 48 months, 15K a year, you are looking at approximately $299 a month with all taxes and fees included.

Keep in mind, it is more difficult to finance a lease than it is to buy with financing. You are in all aspects borrowing the car for 4 years, and the company that leases to you actually owns the car. So they take a deeper look into your credit than if you were purchasing a car.

With a lease, the car should be in the dealership before any paperwork is finalized. So usually a deposit is taken to hold the car in your name until its arrival. Then the actual lease begins. Also keep in mind that lease rates change monthly, and if you put a deposit down this month, next month's lease rates may change slightly.

How long a wait time you have depends on how backed up the dealership is on that particular vehicle and popularity in your region. Not caring about the color will help your dealership find the car as quickly as possible.

OK Will, since you offered: How does one get the lowest price on a Honda? Is there any truth to the lore of end of the month quotas?

In my opinion, timing is a factor. I have found that going car shopping after work in the middle of the work week makes the dealers more willing to negotiate. On the weekends it is busier, so if one customer leaves without buying a car, the salesman just goes to the next customer. On a not so busy week day night, the salesman is more willing to close a deal before closing time. Also if you take up more of the salesman's time at the dealership and on a loooong test ride, the salesman is under more pressure to make a deal to justify the time invested.

I can keep an eye on the inventory online and strike when there are a lot of cars on the lot.

I like to get to the end of negotiations buy having the dealer throw in a freebie (like a CD changer), but they are catching on to this by asking all specific options before the offer.

I don't like the way they leave off "fees" from the negotiated price. Have them add and processing fees to the vehicle price.

I think it works better to have your spouse to go with you, then the salesman has to convince two people on the price. I would not bring kids, because the salesman may want to get brats out of the show room.

I sometimes take brochures from other dealers to show that we are not set on just one make or model. If you fall in love with a car, and it shows, it is hard to negotiate.

Despite what the dealer says, you have to leave the trade in price of the old car out of the negotiations for the new car.

Make sure you test drive the car you will own BEFORE you sign the papers. You want to spot any flaws before you pay for it.

I like to say things like "I've never paid full sticker price before!" so they know they can't gouge you. If the dealer offer is high, react stunned or negatively somehow.

Is any of what I say true? Also, should you dress well or dress down? How low should your counter offer be to the dealers offer? Any other tips?

Will - glad you're here.

I am moving this thread to our ASK THE DEALER category. Let's try to keep these threads in there so that Will can answer questions in that category directly and it's more fitting over there. Thanks everyone!

I appreciate your time and help. I test drove an Element today and was quite satisfied. Overall, I thought it handled very well. The road noise was a bit pronounced, and I wish the rear view mirror was larger and the pull strings that adjust the seats were not so flimsy, but these were only minor issues.

As for your reply concerning the low load capacity (675 lbs.) I am still a bit confused. What do you mean by "the capacity is placed on the door jams". I realize that the car is not going to collapse if there is more than 675 lbs., but it sounds like there would be safety as well as performance issues. Is this a correct assumption?

I can live with the other supposed issues (leaky windows, dash rattle, cracked windshields, flimsy spare tire cover, etc), but I am really hung-up on this load capacity issue. See, I often go to lunch with my co-workers, and most (if not all) combinations of me and three of my co-workers would easily surpass the 675-pound capacity.

Thanks again for you time and thoughts.

Will - My mother, father and I came by this afternoon to test-drive the CR-V and Element with you. I think we're going to go with the Element EX, but I had one other question. I've done some reading and I've found that one of the issues that has become prevalent in other forums (ie. Yahoo!) is the placement of the gas tank. Many claim that it is too close to the ground and poses a threat to being easily damaged. What's your take on this? Thanks for your time!
BTW - I posted this the first time as a new thread in the Ask The Dealer section, as opposed to a reply - sorry :oops:

I was going to open a new thread on this. I live in Scottsdale AZ and a certain dealership has about 8 Elements on the lot, all styles and models...On all the stickers is a $3995.00 "Customer Adjustment" or somehthing like that. Seems like all the dealers have added this almost four grand charge. Do you know if any other states are doing this?

Glad to see you taking part! Thanks for all your help and honesty!

Will@Honda, thanks so much for taking time to respond on this thread. I hope you continue to frequent this thread. You seem to be sincerely interested in providing honest, complete answers that are clear and succinct. Too bad you are so far away from Manhattan, Kansas, or I'd certainly consider dealing with you on my upcoming purchase.

Chuck

[quote:3faf0cd0d5="JNH"]I was going to open a new thread on this. I live in Scottsdale AZ and a certain dealership has about 8 Elements on the lot, all styles and models...On all the stickers is a $3995.00 "Customer Adjustment" or somehthing like that. Seems like all the dealers have added this almost four grand charge. Do you know if any other states are doing this?[/quote:3faf0cd0d5]

I live in the Silicon Valley, one of the most expesive area in US, still I get $200 under invoice for my 4WD EX. I think your dealer is just trying to be greedy. :evil:

At the beginning some sales person did try to convince me into paying more by saying buzz words like "top of the line", "limited availability", etc. What I did was to contact as many dealers as I could via email/fax and ask for a quote. Those who responded actually gave me much more reasonable prices and are very eager to get the business. I eventually got my deal within 2 days with no hassle.

Perhaps Will would correct me but I think it worked for 2 reasons: 1. sales person knows you're shopping around and is more likely to give you a fairer price. 2. Those who is in need of business are more likely to respond, giving you more room for negotiation.

One dealer was being rude by sending me response that goes like "We do not want to play this game. You may make an offer if you are serious". I can't figure out what's wrong with customers asking for price. :?:

Will -

Are dealers taking orders for the EX with side airbags yet? If not, do you know when they will do so? If they ARE taking orders, do you know when I might receive the vehicle if I order now?

One other question. About when would information be released by Honda telling about any new colors for the 2004 model?

Thanks for any info. It is great to have you here answering questions.

[quote:6660c335df="HEMan"]Will -

Are dealers taking orders for the EX with side airbags yet? If not, do you know when they will do so? If they ARE taking orders, do you know when I might receive the vehicle if I order now?

One other question. About when would information be released by Honda telling about any new colors for the 2004 model?

Thanks for any info. It is great to have you here answering questions.[/quote:6660c335df]

The first EX's with side airbags were available for order today.

Will they be able to retrofit the non-side airbag E's?

Will....hope your dealership doesn't use the FSU cheer.."Scalp 'Em"!

I live in Tallahassee and have ordered an E....dealer did come off the sticker...but not near what some other posters have experienced.

Go Noles!!

[quote:db447f0636="Sunstoke"]Will they be able to retrofit the non-side airbag E's?[/quote:db447f0636]

Are you asking if you could add the side airbags to an E not equipped with side airbags? If so, the answer is NO. Even if it were possible, by switching out the seats, I don't imagine a dealer would accept the potential liability.

Wildrice.

Sorry it took me so long to respond, busy day in Tally.

There is no best price, you must pay sticker. :twisted:

Just Kidding.

Getting the best price depends on a variety of factors. You generally can get better prices at the end of the month. Sometimes the dealership is behind on quota and will take a lower price. Also, salesmen have different bonus levels. More cars sold each month equals a bigger bonus. Selling one more car can even mean up to $1000 in bonus money, so in certain situations salesmen will lower the price to get that final sale.

Keep in mind salesmen are not dumb, we have seen all the tricks that customers play. And we respond with tricks of our own. The best way to get the best price is to be straightforward with the salesman.

Do your research and find out the TMV, or true market value. Which is what the car is selling for in your area. After negotiations, you will usually be within a $100 or so of that price.

Negotiations are not only stressful for the customer, but also the salesman as well. Most of my customers want at least $2000-$4000 off the MSRP of the vehicle they are interested in. Here is a news flash, there is not a single vehicle honda sells with a $4000 mark-up in it. A civic MSRP is less than $1800 above invoice. Honda does not give rebates. All a rebate is is a added mark-up from the manufacturer. It is a way to inflate invoice prices above the true value of the vehicle, and fool customers into thinking they are getting a good deal, when they really are getting screwed. And rebates push down residual values, and your resale value goes down the toilet. Getting $1500 off on a civic is like getting $3000 off on an american compact car.

Do not fall for addendum stickers. Such as interior protection packages, or paint sealant, or underbody coating. They are worthless. These types of protections come from the factory at no extra costs. They are already factored into the invoice price.

Keep this in mind when a dealership will not go below invoice. Dealers pay invoice for all the cars, they do not receive the holdback money until the end of the year. So getting a car below invoice actually shows as a loss for the dealership that month. Below invoice deals are rare to come across.

To get a fair deal, never pay sticker. Check the TMV and stick with that as a guide to what you should pay. And don't get too upset with dealer fees. That is how a dealership actually manages to stay in business. But do not accept a huge dealer fee, ours is 199.95.

Hope this helps, like I said it is a difficult question, because most great deals you hear about happen by accident. Right place right time type of thing.

Panama.

I understand your concern about the 675lb weight capacity.
When I say placed in the door jams, I mean that DOT requires placement of a sticker with certain info, including weight capacity, on the inside of the door.

To better help answer your question, I did another experiment. I took an element EX on a Test Drive today with 3 of my larger coworkers. Estimated weight of all four of us--900lbs.
The element handled very well. We did emergency braking, acceleration, and cornering tests. The ABS worked great and got us stopped quick. The acceleration did drop off a bit, but freeway merging was not a problem. The element turned without a second thought as to the weight in the vehicle. And the wheels never even once threatened to fall off.

I hope this helps, and if not, try the experiment for yourself. I imagine it will annoy the hell out of your local dealer though.

rlhowell.

Hey Lee, set your mind at ease. The same thought about the low gas tank occured to the engineers at Honda.

The reason the gas tank is relatively low is to allow the flat floor the element has. The tank itself is a two level tank, and is fairly low compared to other vehicles.
So the engineers at honda have built a tank guard around the entire tank. It hangs down an inch a half lower than the tank and consists of steel bars around the lower perimeter of the tank. The tank is also protected by a skid plate.

No problems have been sxperienced with the gas tanks to this point.

JNH.

Many dealers are adding mark-ups to the elements all over the nations.

Some call them customer agreements. Some call them added mark-up. Some call them price premiums.

I have seen some addendum stickers as high as $6000 over MSRP. In most areas of the nation there is enough competition that this type of mark-up cannot be done. Unfortunately, in some places dealers can get away with it.

I am proud to say that my dealership has never marked a vehicle over MSRP.

If the element is in high demand in your area, you might have to pay the mark-up, unless you travel to an area where demand in less.

Thanks Neil. Sorry I missed you call. You might want to come in to the dealership on friday, we have a tailgate cabana installed on our demo element. Its pretty cool.

Thank you too Chuck.

HEman.

Dealers are taking orders for side airbag elements, but we still do not have build dates or arrival times for them, at least not in my district.

No changes have been anounced yet. I do not know when Honda will declare the changes, if any. 2004 models should arrive in late october, early november. So any planned changes whould be anounced with the next few months.

Sunstroke.

supamann is absolutely correct. There will be no retrofitting. There is no way to install airbags into the existing seats, and no dealership is going to switch out the old seats for new ones for you.

Billybud.

You know, a lot of the deals that I have seen posted around this site seem too good to be true, at least to me. With a vehicle as new as the element, dealers do not need to go anywhere near the invoice price. If a customer is wanting invoice, i tell them sorry, but i can just wait, and within 48 hours I can sell it for significantly more money. And we do sell them, usually within 48 hours, to someone else for more money. It is not that I CAN'T sell it for invoice, It is that I CAN sell it for significantly more.
This is why I have a hard time believing below invoice deals. I have talked to many other dealerships, and not one of them has come anywhere near to an invoice deal.
I am not saying that getting an Element at invoice is a dream, but It is very, very, very rare.

I don't have a question, I just wanted to say thanks for being willing to answer everyones questions. A salesman who would be willing to take an element full of guys to try emergency braking for someone online is certainly a good salesman and they are as rare as an Element at invoice.

Can't say enough how thankful I am for your time and effort. Just wish I lived in your area so that if and when I purchase an Element, I could give you the business. You have certainly earned it!

I continue to have concerns about the Element, but your load capacity and tire cover (experiments) have put me somewhat at ease. The truth is that even with all of my concerns, I keep coming back to the Element. There is just nothing else on the road that sparks my interest/emotions.

I will probably purchase an Element, just do not know when. Don’t know if I should go for it now or hold out a bit longer to see what (if any) changes are in store for 2004. Or if there may even be some changes to the 2003 models with side air bags. Please keep us informed!

Speaking of the models equipped with side air bags, do you have any idea how that will impact (no pun intended) price? For example, am I interested in the EX 4WD AT. The MSRP is $21,310. What do you think it will be with the side air bags?

Peace

Side Airbags should only affect the price $250 more. That is the standard price increase for Civics, Accords, CRVs and all across the board for Honda's. You might have a great deal more difficulty in getting a vehicle equipped with side airbags. It will be even tougher if you want a specific color, model and side airbags. Doesn't mean you can't negotiate the same way, but it might mean less flexibility from the dealers. Our dealership for example, only orders a handful of vehicles in any line that are equipped with side airbags. We just don't get enough request for them from our customers. To me, it is a huge benefit and a must have for my vehicle, but for many it is not so important.

Supamann: I assume you are talking about a lack of flexibility in finding a color choice with side airbags sitting on the dealer's lot. I assume there is no problem ordering one and waiting for it to arrive. Is that true? Is there any difference in flexibility negotiating a price on a vehicle on the lot versus one that is ordered?

Thanks

Their usually is a price difference between a unit on the lot versus ordering one.

We are a lot more willing to deal with a vehicle on the lot for the following reasons.

1. We already have it, we do not have to find it.
2. It is a unit that will definately count for this months goals, and sales is a month by month numbers game.
3. If a vehicle sits on the lot for more than 30 days, the dealership has to pay tax on it.
4. The more Elements we sell this month, the more we will be allowed by honda for next month.

Even if the vehicle on the lot is not the color you want, the dealership would rather sell you that one, and most will take off some money to make that one more enticing versus ordering one.

And Supamann is correct, $250 is the standard mark up for side airbags on honda vehicles, and I see no reason why the element should be different.

Will, if I buy window visors from handa or cheaphondaparts, and then either 1. chicken out trying to put them on myself, or 2. get them part way on then ask the service dept to finish the job.......how will they react? Do dealerships ever install accessories not purchased at the dealership? :roll:

[quote:83e1de108b="kducky"]Will, if I buy window visors from handa or cheaphondaparts, and then either 1. chicken out trying to put them on myself, or 2. get them part way on then ask the service dept to finish the job.......how will they react? Do dealerships ever install accessories not purchased at the dealership? :roll:[/quote:83e1de108b]

kducky, our dealership's policy is against installing accessories not purchased through our dealership. Might sound harsh, but we have no desire to get involved in the liability of installing something after the fact, etc. It isn't because our service dept. is all up in arms because the customer purchased the parts elsewhere, but they aren't going to take on the liability when they didn't even sell the part. Don't know about most other dealerships though.

Kducky.

I concur with Supamann. I do not know of any dealerships that will install any non-honda accessories. It is, of course, due to liability issues. You know, "My window visors fell off due to the dealerships inability to properly install them and now I have emotional distress and cannot work, so I am going to sue for 3 million dollars."

However, the visors are very easy to install, you should not have any problem doing it yourself. I put my own vent visors on my personal vehicle. I do not think you will be able to find any aftermarket visors for the Element as of yet, at least I have not seen any.

we have a Canadian Y package which I believe is similar to the American EX. For the winter I wish to replace the alloy wheels with steel wheels. I realize I can purchase new Element steel wheels, but I would rather used wheels from a salvage yard. My question - will CRV 15" or 16" steel wheels fit the Element? Will Odyssey steel wheels fit??

[quote:f361378c79="Will@Honda"]Kducky.

I concur with Supamann. I do not know of any dealerships that will install any non-honda accessories.[/quote:f361378c79]

What about OEM Honda accessories, in original Honda packaging - purchased elsewhere? (Like somewhere cheaper.)

e-j

digbydog.

Odyssey wheels probably will not fit, because the odyssey is based on a vastly different frame. CR-V wheels will PROBABLY bolt right on, the two vehicles are based on the same frame. But the ride quality and characteristic will change. My parts and service department will check on manday to see if CR-V wheels will definately work.

Element-J.

Any genuine Honda accessories can be installed at you local dealership, even if you purchased them from someplace cheaper. Check your local dealership for installation prices.

[quote:5d1c89a399="Will@Honda"]If any owners or potential buyers have questions , feel free to ask me.

I am a recent college grad from FSU, and just happen to work at a Honda dealership as a salesperson.

Being relatively young, the Element greatly appeals to me.

I have access to all kinds of information, and if any of you need help or answers I invite you to ask me.

I will try to respond to questions every day.

Thank you.[/quote:5d1c89a399]

You will find yourself falling into the Top 10% of your peers with this attitude! Sure, you get to answer OUR questions, but more importantly, you get some real world feedback from E drivers that prepares you for questions from YOUR customers! Fiendishly clever! :twisted:

Thank you.

Will,

Forgive me if I am beginning to repeat myself, but are the Elements with air bags considered 2003 and half models or are they just the 2003 models now with air bags. I guess what I am hoping is that the mid-year (air bag) models may address some of the other issues I have heard/read about (Leaky windows, Dash rattle, Flimsy spare tire cover, Cracked windshields, etc.) And I believe Honda just released its first Element (bulletin) about something to do with the seats and fixing them with a piece of felt???

Another question...

Does adding the side air bags effect accessories? I thought I read something somewhere (then again I may just be losing my mind) about with the side air bags you cannot add seat covers or maybe it was the large arm rest?

Thanks again!

Will....doesn't look like the DX's are moving off your lot. Seems like folks are going for the EX....

Was the expectation that folks would buy the base model and "customize" it a little far reaching?

Seems like the if the DX isn't moving, there may be room for negotiation.

[quote:bf2f77b165="billybud"]Will....doesn't look like the DX's are moving off your lot. Seems like folks are going for the EX....

Was the expectation that folks would buy the base model and "customize" it a little far reaching?

Seems like the if the DX isn't moving, there may be room for negotiation.[/quote:bf2f77b165]

billy, you are correct that the DX models are not moving quite as fast. Hard to say why, but my guess is the fact that accessories are running slow, by the time you add the accessories to the DX you basically have paid more than an EX, and you can't get the bumpity, bump stereo in the DX (to my knowledge).

Billybud.

Honda's marketing campaign for the element kinda missed the mark. It was marketed towards 18-24 year old males. Most actual buyers at my dealership are mid 40's and married. I have yet to sell one to a gen-y customer.

And since most 40 year old married couples do not customize their vehicles, the DX is moving slower than expected. Also, the most popular colors, green, orange, shoreline mist, are not available on the DX. Even the younger, target market seems to be shying away from the DX.


And yes, there is negotiation room on the DX's. We are running a special of $17990 on Element DX's with auto, AC, a CD player, and 2 speakers.

Panama.

The Element with the side air bags will be a 2003 model designated Element EX/DX SRSS. The SRSS means side bags. No other changes will be made.

As far as the service bulletins go, there has been two of them. One is for the covers of the mechanism that removes the rear seats. It seems that some do not stay secured and pop loose. This will cause no damage, but is probably annoying. It is any easy fix, any dealer can do it for you. The other service bulletin is for the yellow pull handles that release the floor anchors enabling the rear seat to be folded up. It seems the stitching may pull out, making a cord instead of a loop.

Keep in mind, service bulletins are NOT recalls. They mean that service departments should pay attention to those two parts when an element is brought in for service.

There are no recalls, and no other bulletins, not for window leaks, cracked windshields, seat rocking, or dash rattles.

In response to the accessory question.
I have heard that the all season seat covers are eventually going to be modified to work with side air bags. Armrest shouldn't be an issue, since the airbags are on the outside of the seats, and the armrests are only installed on the inside.

Hope that helps.

Thanks a lot Will...couldn't live without the cruise control on the EX.

We have a SMM EX on order (Mary was salesperson) at $19100....didn't dicker much but are getting about $800 off sticker. Should be in next week (it is in transit).

You have been a real resource on this thread...thanks again.

When my windshield cracked and I took it to my local Honda dealer. He found a service bulletin in his book regarding cracked windshields on Elements. I saw it myself. The end result is that after he looked at my windshield crack and talked to Honda, they are going to replace it for free as soon as he gets one in.

:?:

When I read the description of my vehicle, it says I have heaters in my rear seats but there are none. Is this because it was sent to South Texas to be sold where we don't need heating very often? That's one question: Next...when I read about the Element on Honda's website, they mentioned a button or something that lowered the volume on the radio when you went through a drive up window. Where is that button or how does it work? Can't find it in my owners manual.

I have had no leaking in my E at all. I love it. I also was told by the salesman to use only the regular unleaded gas not the super. But I am not getting very good gas mileage in the city...mostly 17-18. Is that normal?

Thanks for answering my questions. It's easier to ask on line than to call the salesman!

flaime.

I have not seen any other service bulletins, but that does not mean they do not exist. I just fired off an email to the head of our service dept, and a few other dealerships also. I will find all the bulletins, and should be able to share them with the group on manday or tuesday.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention, I was not aware of any other bulletins.
I did a search through the service dept at my dealership, and the two bulletins I mentioned earlier were the only ones that had come up, I will do a more thorough search now.

Thanks again.

Pecoskid66.

If someone told you your vehicle had heaters in the rear seats, they must have been sniffing glue. There are no seat heaters anywhere in the element. Seat warmers are generally reserved for more "upscale" cars. And Honda only puts the seat warmers in vehicles with leather. Sorry.
As for the radio, it might have a mute button on the radio, I'll have to check on monday to be sure. I am familiar with the advertising you have read. It is a little confusing, but its gist reads: Lower the window with one touch, turn down the tunes, order, turn the tunes back up, chow down without the fear of making a mess, because messes can be easily cleaned up. But the way Honda tries to word the ad, trying to make it hip, It gets a litttle confunsed and jumbled.
If the radio does have a mute button, which I do not think it has, It will be on the radio face. But no other Honda has one, which Is why I do not think the element does. Check the wording of the website you saw, and see if it still makes sense.

Pecos --

I wonder if the rear seat heater is a reference to the air ducts under the front seat aimed at the rear passengers.

I don't think that there is a radio mute....the advertising in the brochure is worded to lead one to think that there might be....but I believe that it is an inadvertant tease brought on by overwrought copy writers.

Will, thanks so much for your help. I think I just got confused by reading the "hype" stuff on the Honda website when I was researching my Element. Actually, I went all prepared to buy a CRV and then drove the Element. It was love at first site. I looked up my element on the Honda Ownerlink. It states: Rear-seat heater ducts. Where are those?

Forgot to tell you that I have an AWD EX.

Pecoskid66.

One concern of the honda engineers who designed the element was the heating and cooling with such a large interior volume in a relatively small car.
Underneath the front seats their are ducts connected the heating system. They are there to help the warm the rear of your element quickly. When it gets cold enough to use your elements heater, you should notice them, if you sit in the back.

And in case you are interested, the elements heating and cooling system outperformed many of the similar competitors cars.

Hey Will, dont' know if you can answer this but my EX when travelling anywhere above 40 mph has a whistling noise like a tea kettle. I've checked doors and moon roof and it doesn't sound like its coming from them. Its just a really annoying noise which is fairly loud at highway speeds. Any info? TIA

Will,

I placed a deposit yesterday for 5-spd Green E after getting internet quotes and meeting with a few dealers. As I courtesy I notified the dealers I contacted that I had made a deposit with such-and-such a dealer and thanked them for their time (I wasn't haggling--it wasn't a "can you beat this quote?" mail--I jut wanted them to know that I was no longer shopping). The car was already on the dealers build schedule and it wont arrive until end of May--they did not place an order for me specifically, but will hold that one for me.

Today, another dealer (who had not responded to my original pricing request) gave me a better quote (significantly better and just below invoice) and offered to order the car for me at that price, so it may take a little longer but it's certainly worth the savings. The other dealers in the Bay area all claimed that they could not order cars and just get what they're sent, so this guy's seeming a lot more helpful.

So, my question's simple: am I am arse if I request the deposit back from dealer 1? I haven't signed anything at the dealer and made the deposit with a credit card.

Dealer 1 matched the offer. problem solved. Happy happy day.

[quote:1566becbfc="Will@Honda"]flaime.

I have not seen any other service bulletins, but that does not mean they do not exist. I just fired off an email to the head of our service dept, and a few other dealerships also. I will find all the bulletins, and should be able to share them with the group on manday or tuesday.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention, I was not aware of any other bulletins.
I did a search through the service dept at my dealership, and the two bulletins I mentioned earlier were the only ones that had come up, I will do a more thorough search now.

Thanks again.[/quote:1566becbfc]

Will,

Any luck coming up with a list of all (Element) Service Bulletins? Was just wondering if there were any more than the two you previously posted? I find it hard to believe there wouldn’t be one for the windshield issue. This board only represents a fraction of Element owners and several appear to have this problem.

By the way, I will probably be purchasing an Element later this week and had a couple of questions regarding accessories:

I am interested in the (side steps) and (fog lights). With the Element's low load capacity, do you think it is a bad idea to add the side steps? It is my understanding that they weigh about 50 lbs. I assume by adding them, I am dropping the load capacity by the same, now making it about 625 lbs.

And as for the fog lights, I think they look great, but I have heard that they are very susceptible to road debris and cracking. Is this true? Does Honda sell any type of covers or grill to protect them from such?

Thanks again!

Good Questions... I have the same one about the fog lights... I dont want to spend all that money for a set to crack the first time i drive on gravel. As far as the side steps go I would say that it would affect the overall capacity which in the elements case is not good. I dont know if it would be like placing a 50pound brick in the element though because they bolt directly to the frame and not rest on it. I wonder if new elements sold with side steps have a different door tag because it seems if the capacity was 50pounds lighter that would have to be noted somewhere for legal reasons.Who knows but good questions.

Will,

I saw a review which listed a range of load capacities for the Element--I guess it varies based on 2WD, 4WD, auto, manual, etc. Could you list the capacities by model?

Sorry this took so long, our computers are being updated, and I just now have gotten access.

Here is a list of service bulletins for the element.
The two i previously have posted are the ONLY two put out by American Honda.
All the other bulletins are just instructions on how to install or remove and fix certain parts of the element.
There have been NO repeat NO service bulletins or recalls for windshields, leaks, or sunroofs.

Oh, and by the way, I finally talked my wife into it. My shoreline mist element arrives next wednesday.

In response to the side step and fog light question.

Yes, the side steps will count as weight towards the total load capacity. In effect you will always already have 50 lbs added to the element.
My dealership has only installed three sets of foglights, so I don't really have a lot to go on. I have not found any bulletins on the fog lights cracking. But I have not had much experience with them.

Staggie.
Your situation happens alot. And most times the outcome is exactly what you experienced. Speaking as a sales person, It is kind of upsetting, but what can you do? The customer is just looking out for themselves.

Staggie.

I would be interested in where you found that posting on different load capacities. because the chassis structure is the same for all model elements. On the 4wd all the differences are below the chassis, and the load capacity stays the same. It is the same load capacity regardless of DX/EX 2wd/4wd auto/manual, it does not differ, according to Honda.

Goalee1.

Do you have roof racks on the element. If you do, that is most likely where your noise is coming from. This is a common complaint on all honda cars that have the roof racks installed. It is due to the wind flowing over and under the cross bars, which are common in shape to an airfoil, which causes a noise described by most customers as a whistle.

Hi Will,

I've noticed that something vibrates in short bursts on the drivers side door when I have the radio on. I'm convinced that its the play in the adjustable seatbelt thigamajig. If I push in the seatbelt connection, the vibration doesn't happen. The strange thing is, it only happens with talk radio, not with music. I don't think that makes much sense, but maybe it has to do with the accoustics. I haven't tried to get this fixed at my dealer yet, and I'm convinced they're going to think I'm nuts, especially since I don't know when its going to happen and it probably won't happen when they're in the car. Has anybody else come to you with this problem, and is there anything a dealer would be able to do to stop it.... or do you just think I'm nuts?

Thanks
Kizzz

Will...keep your cotton picking hands off my Shoreline Mist...also due next week. I'll have Mary's head. LOL

Since the spare tire cover is the biggest bone of contention that I have heard about, and since there are numerous Kludge fixes, I thought that I might purchase an extra one and really work on reinforcement, with structural foam and plywood. Do you know the part number and cost of a replacement cover?

The review that gave a range of values for capacity was in USA Today.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2002-11-21-element_x.htm

[quote:81ceac2e67="Staggie"]The review that gave a range of values for capacity was in USA Today.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2002-11-21-element_x.htm[/quote:81ceac2e67]

Staggie,

The (load capacity) is in fact 675 lbs. I contacted the author of that article (Healey), and he said that that was the info Honda (originally) provided him, I guess back in November of 2002. He just recently followed-up with Honda (per my requests), and they said that it was 675 lbs. He had this # confirmed by more than one source, and it is what appears in the Element owner's manual.

This has been my biggest concern since I started looking into the Element. It seems awfully low to me since your (average) four Americans probably weigh more than this, without cargo! And if you go over the weight, I believe there are both safety and performance issues.

If not for this issue, I would probably have purchased an Element a month ago. Now I am trying to decide between an EX 4WD AT Element or 6.0 Cyl. EX 5AT Accord w/ Leather.

My thinking is maybe I will get the Accord for now and trade it in for an Element down the road when they address this and some of the other (first year) supposed issues (leaky windows, flimsy spare tire cover, cracked windshields, etc.)

HELP :?

I spoke to honda re weight cap. They said that it is 675. not including fuel or options (sidesteps) How much does 15 gallons of fuel weight? Subtract that from 675.

Anyway, I think that the person how answered my question was just towing the company line. If you subtract the curb weight of the element from its GVW you end up with a max cargo/passenger weight of around 850lbs. (can't remember exact number) I have carried five passengers for short trips and had now trouble with handle.

I think that what the company lists as the max weight is underestimated. I you look it up, the max weight of the Navigator is lower than the taurus. go figure.

I would be surprised if you find the weight issue has any impact on you daily driving.


Just my opinion.

P.S. If I am wrong about subtracting curb weight from GVW to get max weight, feel free to set me straight.

thank you boneheadz. I could not have put it more eloquently than you managed.

Billybud, relax You will only have to wait a couple of extra days. Just blowin smoke, two shoreline mist elements are coming in that day. One for you, one for me.

kizzz.

I have not heard of that problem before, and frankly, neither has my service dept. could maybe be a torn speaker cone? Definately bring it in to your local dealership. Sorry.

joedentist.

for a part number, simply lift up the spare tire cover, the number should be written underneath. Or just tell your olcal dealership you need a new spare tire cover for an element. A lot of times price differs from dealership to dealership, so check with the people you bought your E from to get a price. If it seems outragous, let me know, and I'll give you our price, so you can haggle with your dealership.

Will, thanks for taking the time to do all of this for these people, including myself. Every other salesmen i've spoken to face-to-face was never an enthusiast, and i've spoken to about 200 salesmen.

Anywho, I've got a few questions I need answered from you please, sir.

1. You said earlier that DX's are harder to move off the lot in relation to EX's. Is there a difference in color also? Would an SOP be more / less difficult to move compared to a NBP, thus resulting in a possible negotiation tactic?

2. Which dealer do you work for? When i'm ready to buy, it may be worth my while to drive all the way down to Tally (from Atlanta) just to get a good experience, which is an obvious occurrance, since you do spend all this time on here helping out potential customers.

3. You also stated earlier that it's not that you couldn't sell a car at invoice, but you could sell it for higher than invoice. If a trade-in was brought into the equation, would you be more likely to rethink that possibility, given another dealer has a written conformation of a similarly low price?

4. What does YOUR dealer charge for that aforementioned 7yr warranty?

5. Which would be easier and more likely for your dealer to do, mark down the price of the car, or throw in some (OEM Honda) goodies?

Again, thank you for all your time needed to reply to this.

Andrew Powers

Will,

My dealer says that Honda "accepted" my order for a 5 speed 4wd EX w/side airbags this week, but that he won't feel secure that we're not being "lot-rounded" until he gets "confirmation".

Does this sound right? And how long should it take to get confirmation after Honda has "accepted" an order?

Thanks.

Rob

Will,

I was at my local Honda dealer yesterday negotiating the purchase of an Accord EX 6.0 AT (yes, I opted for an Accord for the time being). The salesman wanted to give me $1000 for my trade-in, and I insisted on $1200. He finally agreed to give me $1200 on my trade-in but (only) if I gave him all (fives) when Honda contacted me. What does this mean to him? Does he get something from Honda corporate if I give him all fives?

And as for an extended warranty, the dealership was pushing something called UNITED AUTO CARE. It was 6 years/75k, for $989. This included 6 (free) services which they said would be about a $300 savings, so that it was costing me net only about $700.

First of all, do you think an extended warranty on the Accord is necessary? If so, are you familiar with UNITED AUTO CARE? Any other suggestions/comments?

Thanks again for your help, time and candor!

PS: HAVE NOT RULED-OUT AN ELEMENT. JUST DECIDED TO WAIT FOR THE 2004/2005 MODELS.

I hate to be a spoil sport, but I certainly hope Will@Honda is not going to get questions on this elementownersclub board from owners of vehicles other than the Element. He's been so great with his presence here, I'd hate to see the workload expand to other models. I'm sure there are great Accord websites that have input from Honda professionals in their message boards.

A few of of panama's questions probably relate to Element issues (extended warrenty), so I think it does have some relevance.

Sorry if I sound "selfish." My concern is that Will's workload could become too demanding, and he'd stop replying here.

ghost
robkap
panama
graybear

Thank you for bearing with me. I have been extremely busy the last couple of days. i will have a chance to respond to your questions in a few, 5 or 6 hours. Thank you.

ghost.

1. There is no difference in color, all EX's are moving quite well, so color choice would not help in negotiations.
2. I am kind of reluctant to release the name of the dealer I work for, but It is the only Honda dealership in Tally.
3. A trade really will not matter. We are always willing to compete with other dealers, but I cannopt gaurantee anything w/o seeing the trade and the other dealers offer.
4. the aforementioned 7yr 100K warranty costs $1400 with a $50 deductable or $1570 with no deductable.
5. My dealership woulb be more likely to throw in "goodies" rather than cut prices. This way our parts dept. makes a little bit of money also.

I feel your pain with the form rangers, I am trading my 2000 ranger in on my element, fords don't hold much a value.

will

robkap.

No dealer is going to refuse a deposit check on any car, it may just take a while to get the vehicle. And just because Honda accepted your offer on the element with side bags, you are not guaranteed any type of time frame. I have no clue what "lot-rounded" means. You will just have to wait until Honda does confirm build dates for side bag elements.

I do not know how long it will take to get confirmation, could be a few days, could be a few months.

I know this doesn't help much, sorry.

will

panama.

Even if he is giving you $1200 on a trade, he is probably just taking money out of the price of the accord.
As for the 5's on the survey, yes he MOST LIKELY gets somthing. At my dealership a survey of all fives gets you a small bit of money. American Honda gives out president awards at the end of each year, one of the qualifications for this prestigious award is high survey scores. OUr dealership has gotten presidents award six years in a row, the only dealership in the southeast to achieve this feat. And we never hold money hostage for survey scores.
If I was to purchase an extended warranty, I would stick with the certified Honda extended plans, not with a generic plan. Carefully look into what the plan covers and what it does NOT cover. You may be surprised. The 6 free services and the $300 savings are just to entice you, keep in mind it is a $989 dollar plan, and that is what you will pay.

The Honda plan for 6yrs 75K is $1090, If I personally was going with an extended warranty, this is one I would choose. Also, you can add the extended HONDA warranty on anytime within two years or 24K for no extra charge.

This applies to the element also. The price for the plan is different for the element though. it is $1120 for the 6yr 75K.

Will

Greybear.

I appreciate your concern, and it is a little hard to reply everday, But I will try to be timely. Many of Panama's questions can be related to the element, and should be of some help to participators of this web site.

Thanks for your concern

Will.

Billybud.

Two shoreline mist metallic elements are due to arrive on Monday, 4-27.
If you give Mary a call, she can set up a delivery date and time with you.

Will

Thanks again for your help Will.

For everyone else, the only Honda dealer in Tally is "Proctor Honda."

Andrew

Thanks Will...you've been super....and you are the friendliest at the dealership...I've enjoyed talking to you....you are always willing to spend time with me although you know I won't be your customer.

If I hadn't bought a 98 Civic, 99 Accord and 2000 Civic from Mary, you would be the guy I would want to work with.

Folks...I do recommend Will at Tallahassee Honda if you are within a driving distance.

And Will, I'll be picking up that E tomorrow (its in the lot now)....looks like we'll have look alike E's.

Billybud.

Pick up our elements tomorrow hopefully, you mean. Not to disapoint, but they have not been PDI'd yet. Pre Delivery Inspection, you know, we have to make sure everything works on them. Then they are to be detailed, and filled with gas. Plus whatever, if any, accessories you have added have to be installed. It takes a while to PDI and detail, plus I know we have at least 6 other vehicles to be done on monday. My advice is to call Mary early on Monday and tell her you saw the vehicle on the lot, and ask her for a timeframe. Hopefully we can take them with us on monday.

Hoping very hard,
Will.

I do not know if any of you are thinking about leasing an element, but if you are read this.

Lease rates will increase on the first of May. This is due to residual values going down, as they do the further into each year you get. You generally get better lease payments in the beginning of a model year, and payments increase throughout the year. This is because the cars are getting "older" as the year goes on. So the residual, or amount the car is worth at the end of the lease, goes down. This means the lease company will not make as much money when the sell the leased car once you turn it in. So, to compensate, lease rates do slightly rise.

So if you wish to lease an element this year, do it before thursday to keep your residual up and payments down.

Will.

Will and I both picked up our "identical twin" SMM EX's this afternoon...they followed each other down the assembly line and are one number apart.

Went out to pick mine up and congratulate Will on his E...they were side by side and I felt we were breaking up a litter.

Will is a great sales guy and now, a fellow E owner.

Will,

When I stopped by a dealership a few days ago I was basically told the same thing with regard to the residual going down and rates going up, although I wasn't warned on any particular date. The sales mgr did say "could be next month". He wasn't 100%.

So if I wanted to do a deal now, even if it isn't delivered, would I be able to qualify for that lower rate/higher residual?

markrushton.

unfortunately you must take the current offer at signing. With a lease you cannot lock in a rate before the vehicle actually arrives. However, even with the rates changing next month, the payments should only go up by a few dollars, not a drastic change.

Will.

:x Do you have any idea when element windshields will be in. How long is the wait on backorder?

will,

was the E a success for Honda? i know it did not hit it's target demo, but all in all was it a winner? and will it be around for years to come :?: :?:

Will -

Is there any news on windshields? Has Honda said anything about the problem? I have been planning to order an Element when the side airbags became available. Was all set to do that this week and now think I must go to another vehicle because of this problem. I really don't want to do that but I just can't afford to windup with a vehicle I can't drive because it doesn't have a windshield.

Any positive news on this problem at all?????

HeMan, I hear you. I find the entire discussion about windshields a fascinating exersize in risk assessment. Today is the first day we have with our new 4WD EX AUTO ELEMENT. I too have thought long and very hard about the windshield reports. How you decide on this issue is a perfect example of risk assessment and tolerance. Here is my train of thought in resolving the issue.

1. There are quite a few reports of windshield cracks in the Element on this board.
2. The actual number of reports is in reality a small percentage of those who read and/or post to this board.
3. I have no way of establishing the credibility of most reports. I believe that some are not credible at all. There are many reasons why someone would lie to cast a dark cloud on Honda (disgruntled customers, ex employees with grudges, etc.). ALL glowing and negative comments here must be "taken with a grain of salt." Trust but verify is hard to do.
4. I assume that some of the reports are indeed factual. I assume there actually is a potential problem in the design. Note the words "some" and "potential."
5. The perceived value of the car, in comparison to other vehicles is VERY high.
6. The risk environment in which I live is low (no travel on gravel roads, minimal expressway driving).
7. I contacted my insurer (State Farm). I have a no deductable policy that has no limits on windshield repair.
8. The risk of windshield cracking, though irritating in many ways, is not nearly as great as more critical risks that do not exist with the vehicle. There are few, if any reports of engine problems. Safety of the vehicle is very high. Which risk would you rather have, death in an accident or a windshield crack? The safety features of the vehicle are outstanding.

My decision: accept the risk. The probability of the risk is sufficiently low, the cost of the risk taking place is moderate, and the benifits are sufficiently high to make acceptance worthwhile FOR ME. If I get a crack in the windshield today, I will be disappointed, but not hostile because I accepted the risk. Some people want NO RISK in their decisions. That attitude is understandable but that person then misses potential opportunities. Life would be awful for someone who is not willing to accept any risks. Risk reduction is important though. You accept the risk of collision when you drive, but show great caution when near a drunken driver.

My wife absolutely adores the Element. Seeing her drive away from home with the biggest grin imaginanable is worth the risk of windshield repair. Of course, I hope it never happens. But if it does, I will compare the headache of that repair with the pleasure the vehicle has brought to my family.

Chuck (Greybear)

[quote:96a3482b60="dexter19"]will,

was the E a success for Honda? i know it did not hit it's target demo, but all in all was it a winner? and will it be around for years to come :?: :?:[/quote:96a3482b60]

The Element and Pilot are two of the reasons that Honda is able to sit on a pedestal at the moment while other automakers are still struggling. Honda car sales were down a bit over the past months, but their sales continue to climb due to the Element.

I have a new entry on our News page that has details about this.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/news.htm

Peace-

There is once again, no recalls or service bulletins for windsheilds. I do not know how this concern blew up so big, but Honda does not consider it to be a major problem.

If you do need a new windsheild, they are available for order right now. All you have to wait for is the time it spends in shipping.

Once again, no cracked windshields reported in 350 elements sold from the different dealerships I contacted.

I asked our service dept. to look up all the records of serice on the Elements sold at as many dealerships as they could. they found that for the dealerships they contacted, which represented over 1000 elements sold, 3 had cracked windshields, and all three were due to something hitting the windsheild, not a design flaw. thats 0.3% that have had a problem, but none are due to imperfected windshields.


Hope this helps to calm some fears.

Will

It may be too early to tell if the Element is a lasting success. The response so far has been phenominal, but not enough time has passed for honda to declare the element a success.

Keep in mind the Del Sol, a fantastic success, but Honda still discontinued the line. Also the Prelude. This is for sure, the element will be around at least till 2005. And if demand keeps up the way it is, the Element may be here to stay.


will

I wish they would bring back the del Sol.

(I still want a convertible and the other option is too much $$$)

:x If there is a good supply of windshields, then why I'm I into my third week without one. Does it take 3 weeks to ship one to Southern Illinois? Why did another dealer that I called say that they were on backorder and he had been waiting for one for 3 weeks? And I am not ficticious poster!

Will, there are a whole lot of pages here to you and I just did not have the time to read them all today, so if my question has been asked before just let me know if you answered it somewhere in these 8 pages please.

My question to you is about the panels. I have brochure that was given to me on the E before a bought it. I clearly states that the panels are "Scratch Defying" on the pic of the Blue E in the snow.

I like most have had the most, have seen the horror of this not even remotely begin close to true. A person was looking at my E yesterday and was walking around it as I stood still on the back side. He says to me, Oh cool, look at these side pieces as he walk from the back towards the front. My ears perked up when I heard him say this and quickly moved his way to warn him to NOT TOUCH them.....to my dismay, and Honda's too, he was running his had with the back of the hand facing the panel on the panel going towards the front door. Guess what Will?

Two foot long scratches from his two finger nails...I saw how lightly his hand was placed on my panels....he basically just brushed it with his finger tips....that's it!

Will, I know you are doing a great service by helping all of us out on here, and I read also you are an E owner....please tell me How in the world Honda will not be put to the test of a Class One Law Suit over theses panels if something is not done to solve this? The Brochure is plenty for any lawyer to represent all E owners out there with in a court of law.

Please, is there a simple way to remove these light scratches?
This all I want at this point.....Even if it is a breath mint cure for bad breath for right now. I will not be the one to hire a lawyer, but someone will.

So what do you suggest to make it look better? I will be going by my dealer soon, but after yesterday I had to post this now!

Thanks for all your time and efforts on here Will.
EE

will,
my question is about the oil change interval as suggested by the manual (10,000m/1 yr). is this accurate? what does your service team say about it?

I love my new Element 4WD auto. I haven't had any problems with it so am quite happy. I did ask about the gas mileage which at this time I am only getting about 17 in town. My salesman told me to only use the regular unleaded. Can I switch to Super to see if I get better gas mileage? I did with my Toyota Corolla. Let me know!

hi will@honda. i must say, i purchased a black dx Element from the dealership in tallahassee about a month ago now. i love it. i chose the dx model because 1. i could get it without a radio. 2. i liked the storage pocket below the shifter. 3. because it was a bit cheaper. i picked up a manual one because it was so fun to drive. the only thing is, i wish there were more color options for the DX line. i really really think you'd sell more dx models if you could get them in orange or green. my cousin and i both have black dx manual E's. (the only difference is i upgraded to alloy wheels and he kept the stock ones - which i think are just hideous looking, another big turnoff to the younger crowd who would go for the DX model.. the price to pay to get the alloy wheels.) anyway, he wishes he had been able to get his in green and i wanted orange, although we both love our black dx's.
so i guess my question on this is, will honda eventually make the dx's in orange or green? (i really think alot more dx's would sell if they came in those colors... i just couldn't see paying more money for options that came on the ex i didn't want.. i.e. the radio/speaker system which i'd replace anyway.)

also is it possible to get cruise control added on to DX models? i neglected to ask this of my salesman. and if so, how much does it run at your dealership - since that's where i'd most likely take it to get it installed...

Greetings Will, this question could be asked of a tech rather than a salesman, but you can forward it to a tech and maybe he can answer thru you. How do the techs feel about dura blend or full synthetic oil in the E? I asked one tech when I went to get my first oil change today and he kinda side stepped around it. Yet, when they put the sticker on to remind me of my next oil change, the sticker had a brand name of Castrol and espoused using durablend or full synthetic. What gives, is this a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing?

Ger

Just read this on another board:

Honda just issued a technical service bulletin (no. 03-028) for
windshields cracking due do an uneven mounting flange that must be
ground down before installing a new windshield. Check out "problems
and warranty" at Hondaelement.org

Correct?

Hi,
I am trying to decide if I should get an element now or wait to see what changes are made for next year. I am currently driving a Subaru Forrester and I am having a severe space issue. The element reminds me of my old Isuzu Trooper (which I happily had for 11 years). I am concerned about the gas tank and the windshield problem. I got very interested in the Element due to the space and the rubberized interior. Do you have idea what changes are in store ? Thanks for the information !!

Hi Will,

My Honda dealer has hail damaged Elements for sale. They are offering me the invoice price. Do you think that is a fair price for a hail damaged Element? The damage is pretty obvious. The car is an EX FWD Auto. It's listed for $19910. They are selling it for $18600.

Thanks,

Dean

Dean, I would steer clear of hail damaged units if it were me. Usually the paint warranty is completely voided and you must sign a disclosure stating this. If the hail has been repaired by a paintless dent repair expert, you might be fine, but it's a gamble. I don't know how bad the hail damage is, but even if it is light you could expect to pay at least $700-$800 to get it fixed and then you have a completely repaired vehicle. Bad hail damage will run anywhere from $1000 to $2500 if it's severe enough.

Also, in some areas of the country, many E owners are reporting that they are buying their E's for small amounts over invoice, with no damage. The gap between MSRP and invoice is not light year's apart either.

script, as secretive as Honda is, it is highly unlikely that we will know about the changes in store for the 2004 model E's, until later in the year. Don't anticipate anything major though. Every year there are minor changes in almost all their product lines. Hopefully the windshields (if Honda deems it necessary) will be a part of this.

[quote:9681ce6521="Pecoskid66"]I love my new Element 4WD auto. I haven't had any problems with it so am quite happy. I did ask about the gas mileage which at this time I am only getting about 17 in town. My salesman told me to only use the regular unleaded. Can I switch to Super to see if I get better gas mileage? I did with my Toyota Corolla. Let me know![/quote:9681ce6521]

Pecos, if you don't start to see a difference in your E as it breaks in more (sometimes I have seen many Honda's not start improving until 3-4000 miles) then it might be time to start spending the extra dough on the Super Unleaded. But then, if you spend the extra money on the Super and get better fuel mileage, you kinda end up spending the same.

I heard something disturbing from a friend who's parents owned a gas station (quicke e mart or something). He claims that many gas stations don't use any different gas at all for their regular, super and premium. I said what? Yup, he says. All BS. What a crock. I said surely there are laws against that. Probably so he said.

Now I know for fact, there is a difference at most stations, because I own jetski's and used to have a dirt bike. The engine pings are quite noticeable on the lower octance fuels and there is a marked difference in performance, so I don't want you to suddenly think all gas stations are rip offs. Anyway, that's my story.

Dexter, I have asked a few more opinions on this 10,000 mile intervals for oil changes. This is a new feature for the Elements as well as the Honda Civic's. The technicians are paranoid as heck about running a vehicle for 10,000 miles without oil changes. The oil used is a 5W/20, which is quite a bit thinner and lighter (supposedly not allowing sludge buildup). I was not aware of the multiple problems that Toyota dealers are reporting with their Sienna minivans and a few other lines, that have changed to these type 10,000 mile intervals. Replacing engines, valves and all sorts of troubles due to "sludge" buildup. Toyota is paying for most of these repairs it seems and my techs fully believe Honda will too, but they are really skeptical about a conventional oil being capable of lasting 10,000 miles. No matter the weight, viscosity, etc.

Bottom line is, while the owners manual and Honda might suggest this, I have yet to meet a technician that would do this with their personal vehicle.

Supermann, are you really suggesting that Honda, with it's repuation for excellence in engineering and reliability didn't really do enough research on oils and lubrication to know how to plan an effective maintenance schedule?

I mean, this is a company who developed some of the best engines used in Formula 1 racing and who's european vehicles have had 8, 10 and 12,000 mile schedules for years in a market where even the crude engines built in eastern europe and Russia didn't require oil changes more frequently than 6,000 intervals. Personally, unless oil quality is much lower in North America than other markets, I don't see it.

Of course, if I'm wrong I get a blown engine!!

thanks supaman,
i don't intend to either. i did however put the question out there to everyone in the 'under the hood' section. i just want to see what everyone wi do.

when asked about the service bullletins my dealership said that the canadian and us honda companies use differnet bulletins. is this true ?

i noticed on 03-028 the problem vehicles were indicated via the V.I.N. ranges provided.

[quote:737417523f="za9ra22"]Supermann, are you really suggesting that Honda, with it's repuation for excellence in engineering and reliability didn't really do enough research on oils and lubrication to know how to plan an effective maintenance schedule?

I mean, this is a company who developed some of the best engines used in Formula 1 racing and who's european vehicles have had 8, 10 and 12,000 mile schedules for years in a market where even the crude engines built in eastern europe and Russia didn't require oil changes more frequently than 6,000 intervals. Personally, unless oil quality is much lower in North America than other markets, I don't see it.

Of course, if I'm wrong I get a blown engine!![/quote:737417523f]

I'm not suggesting Honda doesn't know what they are doing in any way. I am also not suggesting that Honda doesn't have the knowledge or technology to design a vehicle that could run with 10,000 mile oil changes. I didn't think Toyota didn't know what they were doing when they started doing this with some of their vehicles either.

I was asked a question, which I in turn asked several more knowledgeable individuals and none of them felt comfortable with the 10,000 mile intervals. I also suggested in another thread, that this might just be "old school" knowledge or a comfort that most of us have grown to know and trust. I'll spend the extra money on my personal vehicle and change my oil more frequently. Maybe you feel comfortable going longer intervals between oil changes and if that works for you, then fine. Efficiency is why Honda has deisgned these type vehicles, so use it to your advantage. Put me in with the paranoid group.

I am hoping to purchase a 4wd EX this weekend. I have been dealing with two dealerships via e-mail and have gotten the price down to $20,000 inncluding keyless entry, alarm system, door guards, accent stripes, tire pressure monitors, window tint, and "Automate paint protection".

My question is how much of the "extras" are BS?

I have one of the Element glossy pamphlets and it states "An Immobilizer Theft-Deterrent System is standard equipment, to keep your Element safe in the 'better keep your hands off my truck' sense of the term". What is this compared to the "alarm system"?

What the heck is "Automate paint protection"?

Same question on "tire pressure monitors"?

The "doc fees" are around $370 is this a dealer mark up?

Since I'm hoping to buy this weekend, prompt response are appreciated. Thanks.

Automate paint protection = baloney. It's a little price inflation gimmick.

Decline it (if they haven't applied it) or say "I didn't want this and I know it's baloney. Eat the cost. I won't pay a nickel for it."

I have NFI what a tire pressure monitor is, but I do know that fabric sealant, paint sealant, underbody coatings, etc., are pure baloney.

Document fees? This covers their cost of preparing some paperwork and taking it to the county vehicle registration office. It is probably not the same as actually paying for the title you get for the car, which is a fee that goes to the state. I've heard fees of about $50 to $75, and unless your county or state has special fees or regulations, or there's some sort of special issue in this sale, I'd say $370 is grossly inflated

Look at every number that is appearing on that invoice. I'm willing to bet there's some baloney in a few more places.

Not sure what they are charging you for the tire pressure monitors, but at my stealership they wanted $300 for them. Crazy! If you are diligent about checking your own tire pressure I don't think it is anything you need. It's just a little cap placed on your valve stems. And I think I've seen them at auto stores for MUCH less! Anyhow, just my 2 cents.

[quote:9240b9f381="Cassondra"]I am hoping to purchase a 4wd EX this weekend. I have been dealing with two dealerships via e-mail and have gotten the price down to $20,000 inncluding keyless entry, alarm system, door guards, accent stripes, tire pressure monitors, window tint, and "Automate paint protection".

My question is how much of the "extras" are BS?

I have one of the Element glossy pamphlets and it states "An Immobilizer Theft-Deterrent System is standard equipment, to keep your Element safe in the 'better keep your hands off my truck' sense of the term". What is this compared to the "alarm system"?

What the heck is "Automate paint protection"?

Same question on "tire pressure monitors"?

The "doc fees" are around $370 is this a dealer mark up?

Since I'm hoping to buy this weekend, prompt response are appreciated. Thanks.[/quote:9240b9f381]

Immobilizer Theft Deterrent: this is not an alarm. It is a key-code embedded in your ECU (computer that operates your engine). There are varying degrees of the system, but essentially it means to steal your car they either need your EXACT key (not a copy) or re-program the computer.

paint protection: B.S.

Tire Pressure Monitor: Unless you have run-flat tires, you do not need this.

All that said, $20,000 is a decent price on a 4WD EX with no extras, let alone real extras like keyless and security.

Just wanted to share my happiness! Yeah, I'm getting it!!!! 4wd EX galapagos green, with all the gadgets for $21,998 (this includes tax, title, license, doc fees, etc.). :lol: Thanks for everyone's input!!

Good deal!

Will, help! I was reading the instruction booklet (still trying to figure everything out) and noted that there is a latch on the inside of the Element to open the Hatch in the back. Where would that be? I looked around for it today but didn't find it. Help! :roll:

pecoskid66

The latch that I THINK you are reffering to is the one that lets down the tailgate. If I am wrong, please repost and let me know. But the latch to let down the tailgate is located inconspicously. Hope I spelled that right. Open the top part of the rear clamshell doors. Look down at the top of the bottom or tailgate part. Where the top and bottom clamshell doors latch together, you will see a release lever. It is located dead center of the tailgate part, on top. to operate it, you just slide it over to the right, and voila, the tailgate is released and can now be opened.

will

In response to how many of the extra's are bs.

I agree completely with what has been posted already. Most of those items are so dealers can try to wrangle a few more bucks out of you. Or so they can say "well I will take $2000 dollars off, but paint protection is $400, interior fabric protection is $400, tire pressure gauges are $300, theft deterent system is $500, and underbody coating is $500"

Any dealer who uses such tricks should be ashamed of themselves.

I just test drove an Element and thought it was awesome. I can't figure out why honda only made it available with 4 seats. There is plenty of room to have 6 seats (3 in back/front) Is there any accessories plan such as a modified jump seat in back to increase the seating? Last year i rented a car in Europe. it was a Fiat Multipla and very similar to the Element. It had seating for 6 where the 2 middle seats could be folder in such a way to be used as drink trays or seats. We thought it was the best. When the Element came out I was excited except when I found out it only had 4 seats. We are ready and willing buyers with another couple of seats.

Let me know if you know of anyway to increase the seating.

Thanks in advance,

Ted

[quote:f06375ec1d="tedfun"]

Let me know if you know of anyway to increase the seating.

Thanks in advance,

Ted[/quote:f06375ec1d]

The Odyssey sounds like it is just what you are looking for.

Around 3:00 I was on I-35 heading out of Dallas today, driving south on my way to Austin cruising around 75 when a Black Element flew by me. I sped up to get a good look at it to see how it handled on the road. I followed him for a couple of miles and noticed that the right rear wheel was ****ed on an angle as the Element was speeding down the road, from the rear the top was inward and the bottom was outward, it did not wobble. He hit a low spot and it looked like the whole right side of the axle popped up from the body. He was going around 90 so I slowed down and then I lost sight of him. Have you ever heard of this happening, and if the owner of the Black Element reads this post, he should have someone follow him on the freeway and check this out.

Ted[/quote:89e01f66c9]

The Odyssey sounds like it is just what you are looking for.

Huh?? I think not. The Odyssey is a VERY different car. I would NEVER buy a new Odyssey, but I'd buy an Element if it had seating for 5.

[quote:25295ac837="mfassett"] The Odyssey is a VERY different car. I would NEVER buy a new Odyssey, but I'd buy an Element if it had seating for 5.[/quote:25295ac837]

Regretfully, it does not. It has seating for 4, and room for stuff, not people, in back.

You could write to Honda and ask for more seating in the Element. But that would mean that one of the very unique things about the vehicle - the hang up rear seats - would have to change. And then it would be well on the way to being Just Another SUV.

The Element's great. It will not, however, suit every single buyer's needs.

That's why they make more than one type of car. The CR-V *might* seat 5, the Pilot definitely will. I hope you find just what works for you and yours, and maybe you'll have an Element as a spare car someday.

I had asked this in another thread before I verified what was going on. I have a blue EX and when I turn the heat on and position it so it only goes to the foot compartment I get heat out of the round dash vents. Not the center and not the defrost side vents. Is this normal?

Thanks for taking the time to provide this invaluable service. :?

[quote:3717623de4="condoman"]I had asked this in another thread before I verified what was going on. I have a blue EX and when I turn the heat on and position it so it only goes to the foot compartment I get heat out of the round dash vents. Not the center and not the defrost side vents. Is this normal?

[/quote:3717623de4]

Mine does the same and I understand that this is the way it is designed to work.

The round vent have an on/off switch.

Does your reply mean you don't know the answer or that it is working as designed? Do they make an attachment to connect to the passenger vent to flip the little switch when you can't reach it doing 60? How about a sticker to put over the control so it has the picture of deflecting air/heat to your feet with a little question mark.

The point of my post was to determine if this is something that can be repaired. If this is the way it works, although I have never had a car that does this, then I can live with it because all the good things about the car.

Thanks :P

The point of my post was to determine if this is something that can be repaired. If this is the way it works, although I have never had a car that does this, then I can live with it because all the good things about the car.


I am not sure what needs to be repaired. I don't think I understand the problem, so sorry for jumping to an answer. Is your round vent blowing air even when it is in the off position? If so then that is a problem that should be repaired. If it only blows when open then this is how it is supposed to work. I have to admit that I find it a bit annoying. If a passager leave their vent open I have less heat going to the feet. It is big inside and take time to heat up when it is -20c.

[quote:ca8754364a="condoman"]
The point of my post was to determine if this is something that can be repaired. If this is the way it works, although I have never had a car that does this, then I can live with it because all the good things about the car.
Thanks :P[/quote:ca8754364a]

Works as designed.

This is not unique to Honda, many manufacturers do the same thing.

[quote:7e874f39b2="TheLusciousHellcat"]You could write to Honda and ask for more seating in the Element. But that would mean that one of the very unique things about the vehicle - the hang up rear seats - would have to change. And then it would be well on the way to being Just Another SUV..[/quote:7e874f39b2]

I don't think that's true... I think they could certainly design the seats so they split 60/40... I'm sure someone at Honda thought about this, but what if the 60 split was behind the driver and the 40 split was behind the passenger... with the added benefit of smaller blind spot out the passenger side where it's most problematic?

Or, just make it more of a bench seat in back that splits just as it already does, with a lap and shoulder belt for the middle too. The center seating position wouldn't be that comfortable, but it wouldn't be for long trips anyway...

Anyway, just my opinion.

Barring that, I'm hoping Honda decides to sell the Stream in the US one day....

Will,

First, thanks for all the great posts, you've made my decision to go with an element an easy one!

Two things:

On a test drive at my local dealer the salesman stated that honda has added 500 pounds of weight to the first model inorder to improve ride quality, and reduce undercarrige noise. Is this true and how does this affect the original designs for tow capacity and max load capacity?

also, would you recomend taking a price quote from a dealer and e-mailing all the dealers within a 100 miles with that quote to see if anyone can beat it?

Thanks again,

~Nate

I just bought a 2007 SC, Silver. I want a good fitted dash board cover and a bra for it and can't seem to find any...at least that fit well. Please advise. Thanks

I just bought a 2007 SC, Silver. I want a good fitted dash board cover and a bra for it and can't seem to find any...at least that fit well. Please advise. Thanks

Something tells me Will's long gone, seeing as the last post by him is in 2003 :D

I just bought a 2007 SC, Silver. I want a good fitted dash board cover and a bra for it and can't seem to find any...at least that fit well. Please advise. Thanks
The factory bra doesn't seem to fit well at first, but eventually stretches slightly and goes on easier. It also has the "ear" pieces that fit on the front edges of the fender. On the down side, the backing is flimsy and it flaps like crazy at highway speeds..and that doesn't get any better over time.

Colgan makes a good product. I also have one of their sport bras. Nice backing and it covers a little more of the front edge of the hood, but no ear pieces for the fenders. They also make a bra that covers the entire front of the Element, but you end up with a rather bizarre Hannibal Lechter look.

A bug shield is another option, but I can't get over the minivan soccer mom image it gives the E.

Can't help with the dash cover.