When installing accessories yourself, keep in mind that any electrical or body modification to the vehicle unless installed by a certified Honda dealer may void your warranty. If you put roof racks on yourself and they fly off, it's your fault. If Honda does it, they're responsible. Have fun but be safe.

Well said & Thank you!

Hi everybody!

I am wanting to get the keyless remote and installation looks fairly straight forward, but I am wondering if I install it myself would I have to worry about my warranty being voided. Any thoughts??

bigmobrown--

Hi, installing it yourself will not void the warranty. Just follow the instructions, don't shortcut or modify anything, and keep your receipt/invoice! Keep in mind that if something does go haywire (rare) Honda will warranty the part but not the labor if they did not install it.

We just got our Element DX with all the extended warranties. I am curious to the effect, if any, on the warranty if I added the trailer hitch, the keyless entry and the arm rest myself instead of having the dealer install them.
Thanks ahead of time for any helpful replies.

I am not an expert or a dealer but I believe that any part you install yourself would not be covered by your warranty. The part itself would be covered against manufacturing defects if it is a Honda part. Hope that helps! :D

Thanks. I asked at the dealer yeaterday "Colonial Honda in Perryville, MD." if it would affect my warranty. I was told that as long as I did not do any modifications to the engine or drive train all would remain under warranty. I mention "Colonial Honda" because they have treated us so well so far. I might as well put a plug in for our wonderful sales person "Richard Watters" and for "Jim" in finance. Together they are the "Dynamic Duo". - Love out element!

My dealer said that I'd be warranted, but that if I accidentally screwed something up (i.e. frying electric systems while installing keyless, etc) then I'd be uncovered.

Drew

Will putting a whole new exhaust system (headers, cat conv., muffler) on my E void my warranty?

Ask Honda North America, NOT your dealer, and get it in writing.

It will void the warranty on anything you replace. Legally, they have to prove any work you did voided the warranty.

With all due respect to psm0110, Honda had attorneys on staff or retainer. We have to hire them at $200/hr+.

yelapa

I just purchased an Element, but the dealer told me two things that concerned me. One, he said that the 7 year powertrain warranty is only valid if I get all oil changes and regular maintenance done at the dealership. Is this true, or do I simply need to document that I got it done somewhere?

Also, he said that if I got an aftermarket roof rack somewhere other than the dealership, it would void my warranty. Any truth to that?

If it's like my 100K warranty, it's a dealer warranty, not a Honda warranty. They offer it free of charge to get you to do the service at the dealer.

I've got two words.... Bull S*#@!!!!!!

Both statements are lies. Honda does not (and cannot) require that all service be performed at a dealer. it is a good idea to keep your service records to have eveidence that regular maintenance has been performed (you can also log them on the OwnerLink site).

Adding a non-Honda roof rack will not void your warranty. Your dealer sounds like scum.

What you're being told is called "tying", and is illegal under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Warranties cannot be "tied" to past or future purchase of products or services from the warranty provider. Again, it's not only a lie, it is illegal.

Anyway, it is a good idea to keep evidence of your service history. While technically it is up to the warranty provider to prove that you did not meet the terms of the warranty, the reality is the other way around, with them requiring proof that you did. You're welcome to hold your ground, but it usually takes lawyers to sort it out, and that usually costs more than the servicing being disputed. Never forget we have the best justice system money can buy.

:roll:

if u read the owner manual it states that u dont have to get any maintenence done at the dealer ship to keep your warenty valid, just keep the servise record, sounds like he is trying to blow smoke rings up your a**

I appreciate everyone's input. Thanks.

I'm interested in changing the oil myself but am worried about voiding out my warranty. So how is it done?

Reference your Owner's Manual, pages 211 and 223.

For warranty purposes (just in case), keep your reciepts for oil and filter, as well as date and mileage of service. It is very simple, but you will need some ramps or maybe drive the front wheels up on a curb, so you can get underneath to remove the filter.

Doesn't hurt to lay the reciept next to the speeder meter AND with the key turned on AND ODO mileage showing....Take a pic.....I've tried this with a 3.2 pixel digi cam and WITH alittle luck was able to get a decent shot that printed real good on my $1.98 printer...........I would also in magic marker
number the reciept and date it for future reference (writing would show on reciept and would in turn show on digi photo that would be documentation should something go down)...........More ways you can show a paper trail the better.....

Doesn't hurt to lay the reciept next to the speeder meter AND with the key turned on AND ODO mileage showing....Take a pic.....I've tried this with a 3.2 pixel digi cam and WITH alittle luck was able to get a decent shot that printed real good on my $1.98 printer...........I would also in magic marker
number the reciept and date it for future reference (writing would show on reciept and would in turn show on digi photo that would be documentation should something go down)...........More ways you can show a paper trail the better.....

Real techie, but it doesn't really prove you changed the oil just because you have a picture of the odometer. Honda does not bend over backwards to get out of warranty repairs, actually they have more of a tendency to fix things that they probably shouldn't.

Doesn't hurt to lay the reciept next to the speeder meter AND with the key turned on AND ODO mileage showing....Take a pic.....I've tried this with a 3.2 pixel digi cam and WITH alittle luck was able to get a decent shot that printed real good on my $1.98 printer...........I would also in magic marker
number the reciept and date it for future reference (writing would show on reciept and would in turn show on digi photo that would be documentation should something go down)...........More ways you can show a paper trail the better.....

Great idea but what's to say Honda won't say that a picture of a receipt next to my odometer doesn't prove that I changed my oil at every 10K miles.

I'm just trying to cover all my bases. Any more ideas?

IIRC they have to prove you didn't do the maintenance not the other way around, just keep good records and you should be fine.

That makes a lot more sense, thanks.

What violates the warranty (audio / accessory wise) on my element?
I'm considering (some i've already done):
- replacing the headunit
- replacing the component speakers / tweeters
- replacing the amp
- adding subs
- adding a second battery and battery isolator

kinda depends on what kind of warranty service you're looking for? If you have some sort of electrical problem and they can trace it back to the aftermarket parts you've installed, then your warranty is a no go. If all of a sudden you have a big oil leak, I doubt they're going to say, 'well since you installed an aftermarket stereo in your E, this oil leak is no longer covered under warranty."

What violates the warranty (audio / accessory wise) on my element?
I'm considering (some i've already done):
- replacing the headunit
- replacing the component speakers / tweeters
- replacing the amp
- adding subs
- adding a second battery and battery isolator
For the headunit, speakers, tweeters and subs, no warranty would be voided except on the parts you removed and any wires you physically alter (via a tap or similar).

For the amp, there's a very very small chance that if the replacement were pulling too much current, it could adversely affect other equipment by consuming too much current. Unlikely. Even then, I doubt very much they'd be in a position to prove the amp did it. Course, bad high-current wiring can also start a fire, but in that case, you'd probably be more likely dealing with an insurance company.

The battery situation would probably be similar to the amp situation.

My understanding that they are legally bound to honor warranties, even after you customize the vehicle, unless there is strong evidence that your customization adversely affected the broken part(s).

-brendan

My understanding that they are legally bound to honor warranties, even after you customize the vehicle, unless there is strong evidence that your customization adversely affected the broken part(s).

-brendan

Brendan my dear friend your understanding is exactly correct. It is called the Magnuson Moss Act. A google search for this topic will yield more results than you will need but it says...

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this sub-section may be waived by the Commission if



the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

The district courts of the United States shall have jurisdiction of any action brought by the Attorney General (in his capacity as such), or by the Commission by any of its attorneys designated by it for such purpose, to restrain (A) any warrantor from making a deceptive warranty with respect to a consumer product, or (B) any person from failing to comply with any requirement imposed on such person or pursuant to this chapter or from violating any prohibition contained in this chapter.

In other words the only way that the dealer can refuse to honor a warranty is if they can PROVE, not just claim, that the aftermarket part caused the failure. So a head unit change cannot legally void your engine warranty for example. But if you cut a wire during the install and screw up your wiring they dont have to fix that.

If you do your own service, ie. oil, filter, brake inspections etc. How does it affect the Honda warranty?

I think that I can do all the oil changes and what not myself and save myself some money but I'm worried about voiding the warranty. My dealer here is offering lifetime oil changes for something like $280 Canadian. Apparently it pays itself off in about 8 changes. Not sure if that's a good deal or not.

If it pays for itself in 8, then that works out to $35 Can an oil change. Not knowing what a change costs elsewhere in Canada, it's impossible for me to say what I think it would cost. Find out what the limitations on that deal are. If they only change at the mileage service intervals, then it could take a long time for you to get that many changes, also if it's not transferable to other Honda dealers, then I'd consider how long you plan on living in your current location.

Here in the US you can have your vehicle serviced anywhere without it voiding warranty. This even includes doing your own maintenance. Keep your receipts and you should be fine. Create a maintenance log to document what you do and put the receipts in with the entries. I think a lot of this stuff came out of the results of the Moss-Magnuson Act here in the US.

>My dealer here is offering lifetime oil changes

The idea of getting you to commit to something like this is to give you some manner of "value incentive" to bring you back into the service department so they can strong-arm you into other usually unnecessary "preventive" services. 95% of the battle of selling something is getting you in the door and on their turf.

It all begins with, "While we were looking at it, Mr. Smith, we found...".

While that sounds awfully cynical, sadly, it's the way the industry works. It's a very common marketing technique.

:?

What mike says is true... sort of. Not all dealers are like that in fact there are several who arent. My dealer for example wouldnt and has never tried to hit me with a hidden fee or extra work.

Not being fimiliar with the canadian laws regarding warranties I would talk to a trusted person perhaps even your dealer about what home services will do to your warranty.

Hi. This is my first time posting here, I can't believe there's a site like this and I LOVE my Element! :)

I traded in a 2000 Pathfinder for my Element after 1 little test drive. In my pathfinder, I had a pretty nice radio with MP3 playback and it could also do XM but I didn't get that part installed. I was hoping to put this radio in my new Element. Anyway, when I was buying my Element, the dealer told me if I were to put the pathfinder radio in the element or buy a new one, it would void the warranty for the whole electronics system in the car! Is this true? The sound system in the element is great, but I'd like more options. There was an MP3 attachment available, but they said it was only for the low end models, and I got the 4WD EX version. So what should I do...? Stick with the stock radio and always want something better, or just go ahead and get a killer sound system installed with all the bells n whistles? (I can't put the old radio in it now since I Ebayed it :))

Any ideas?

It really angers me when dealers spew this FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt)...

First, never do business with that Honda dealer ever again.

Second, read the consumers bill of rights at: http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=8123

Third, find yourself a professional installer: http://www.mobiletoys.com/partners/carsound/store_loc.asp

Dealers say these sorts of things because they're driven by greed. They want to sell you their upgrades regardless of whether or not it's actually in your best interest.

Don't stand for it.

Well that's kind of what I was thinking at first, but when all was said and done they actually would have made more money off of me if they installed the radio. I would have gladly paid a little extra for the "transfer". So I didn't think he was trying to scam me by saying that and figured it was some kinda wierd warranty thing.

Oh well, thanks for the info, guess I'll invest in a better radio then :)

Lack of MP3 playback is a major deficency in this day and age. However, I would surmise that the stock Honda speakers would not be covered if you install a 1,000 watt amp and turn the stock Honda speakers into dust!

New guy here. I've been immersed in the archives over the past few days, and I've seen within the responses on a number of topics the (worry, anxiety, paranoia) about voiding the warranty if every little thing in the manual isn't followed to the letter. I'm not talking about obvious stuff like bolting on a turbocharger, but relatively minor items like oil change intervals (someone mentioned voiding the warranty if the oil is changed too soon!), 235 tires instead of 215, not following the "severe" maintenance schedule with a roof-rack installed, etc.

Now, I know y'all are a conscientious bunch, but is this a Honda thing? Are they unusually strict about this kind of stuff? Reason I ask is that I've had warranty work done on the two new vehicles I've owned (Ford & VW) and I was never asked about things like oil changes. Good thing, because I usually change my own oil, and I wasn't so careful about saving receipts. It simply never came up, nor did any other questioning about how I used/cared for the vehicle.

I also find it hard to believe that some moderate modifications (mod-mods?) would be certain warranty-voiders. I mean, isn't the DX version INTENDED for that sort of thing? Steel wheels and no radio, because, after all, we know you're going to put on your own anyway.

I've never owned a Honda, and I'm genuinely curious. As a somewhat self-reliant person, I'd hate to have to go to the dealer for every little thing (maintenance-wise) while the car is under warranty. Likewise, non-stock rims and some minor lowering are appealing to me, at least from the pictures I've seen.

I'm all ears on this one....

Thanks,
Chris

This can be found @ http://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/Warranty/warr_faqs.asp:

An example:

Q: If I have my maintenance services performed by someone other than a Honda dealer, will my warranty be voided?
A: Not if the maintenance is performed properly. The only way your warranty may be affected is if it can be shown that misuse or improper (or lack of) maintenance caused or contributed to the malfunction.

While I'm certain there are some issues that would have warranty voiding (dare I say it?) "elements"! :D It appears that Honda recognizes and allows "properly" performed maintenance.

but its the DEALERS who do certainly take advantage of the "stereotypical" Honda owner.
Quite frankly, new Honda owners arent really considered "car" people by anyone who IS a car person. Until the "ricer's" started working on Honda's due to the cheap insurance rates, Honda owners were basicly like Volvo types who just couldnt afford one. In our family, only a brother in law really bought Honda's "faithfully" and this accountant could barely wash a car let alone maintain one and thus relied on Honda Service. Most faithful Honda owners seem to be of this bent. The reputation for reliability and to an extent safety was mainly predicated on the type of "safe boring drivers" who chose Honda in the early days and stuck with them because they didnt really want a performance or "status" car. When these types became embarrassed by their "cheapo" Honda's in the corporate world, Honda started playing the "GM game" by just rebadgeing a cheaper car with a "status brand"...thus Acura was born for the yuppie generation who couldnt appreciate the difference between transportation and a true drivers car
(or want to part with extra $ for something they couldnt appreciate anyway)
Anyone who has owned a BMW, Audi or even a VW knows what I mean! Perhaps the one possible exception is the NSX which is the only real drivers car I have ever driven with a Honda heritage.

Frankly, I have always found Honda's to be very cheap feeling and just not "solid". If it wasnt 4 the E I wouldn't have even been CONSIDERING a Honda! Why did I cave against better judgement? It fits what I need at the moment.....plus the E is just SO cool lookin!
Its basicly one heck of a value for the $. Sedans just dont fit toddlers well, most coupes are unsafe or overpriced, most vehicles lack even the E's semblence of 4wd for about the same $.
Will I fall 4 that Honda DEALER BS? Of course not, but many will!

but its the DEALERS who do certainly take advantage of the "stereotypical" Honda owner.
Quite frankly, new Honda owners arent really considered "car" people by anyone who IS a car person. Until the "ricer's" started working on Honda's due to the cheap insurance rates, Honda owners were basicly like Volvo types who just couldnt afford one. In our family, only a brother in law really bought Honda's "faithfully" and this accountant could barely wash a car let alone maintain one and thus relied on Honda Service. Most faithful Honda owners seem to be of this bent. The reputation for reliability and to an extent safety was mainly predicated on the type of "safe boring drivers" who chose Honda in the early days and stuck with them because they didnt really want a performance or "status" car. When these types became embarrassed by their "cheapo" Honda's in the corporate world, Honda started playing the "GM game" by just rebadgeing a cheaper car with a "status brand"...thus Acura was born for the yuppie generation who couldnt appreciate the difference between transportation and a true drivers car
(or want to part with extra $ for something they couldnt appreciate anyway)
Anyone who has owned a BMW, Audi or even a VW knows what I mean! Perhaps the one possible exception is the NSX which is the only real drivers car I have ever driven with a Honda heritage.

Frankly, I have always found Honda's to be very cheap feeling and just not "solid". If it wasnt 4 the E I wouldn't have even been CONSIDERING a Honda! Why did I cave against better judgement? It fits what I need at the moment.....plus the E is just SO cool lookin!
Its basicly one heck of a value for the $. Sedans just dont fit toddlers well, most coupes are unsafe or overpriced, most vehicles lack even the E's semblence of 4wd for about the same $.
Will I fall 4 that Honda DEALER BS? Of course not, but many will!

I'm afraid you're in the minority, and not only on this board. All of the American car magazines and car television shows have raved about the Honda "feel" and Honda's solidity for the past few decades. Numerous "Car of the Year" and "10 Best" awards only reinforce this fact. While it is true that Honda owners were, and to some extent still are, Volvo-esque in their buying and driving styles, it is exactly this Volvo mentality that has created such a loyal and cultish following. As someone who has owned many cars over the years, including a VW Jetta and Golf GTI and an Audi A4, not to mention a Mazda RX-7 and a Fiat 131 (showing my age), I can honestly say that Honda builds a very solid and quality car. While not as exciting as some of the listed cars, the Hondas I've owned have been remarkable for their price, ride, efficiency and handling. I still own an old '86 CRX Si that handles like a dream. I can understand your criticisms concerning performance -- Honda never made a truly fast car, even the NSX relies more on handling and grace than real grunt -- but Honda does offer quality and finesse, and a loyal following that recognizes that there are different types of car people, not simply yuppie-wannabes who need to have their BMW in the garage to feel good at night. (PS: have you seen the new BMWs?? Ugh.)

Regarding warranties and oil changes: I go to my favorite independent garage and save my receipt. They told me no dealership could make it mandatory you use them exclusively for oil changes. If they did it would have to be at no charge.....some kind of law.

You might want to go to brickboard.com and open up your mind. These Volvo owners are not stereotypical, for example a lot of them are conservatives... :wink:

turbobricks.org will have performance mod and racing info. If you can find the Irv-o-meter, last I heard he had 1.8 million miles on his P1800.

I have driven many kinds of automobiles, and the long-ownership Volvo people are special; they know a lot about keeping a car for a long time. Volvo has a High Mileage Club, in which they send you an grille badge with 100,000, 200,000, 300,000, etc miles on it as you accumulate them on your odo.

I also will note that every Honda dealer I contacted lied to me about their cars at some point or other during the sales process, which almost kept me from buying one at all. I finally bought from the one who lied the least. So clearly Honda dealers are used to credulous customers, which also makes them similar to VW, for one example.

They won't even see me coming... :)

I wonder if Honda dealers and sales people take a certified Honda course in lying, or they just learned it at the ten other dealerships they worked at before coming to Honda?

It's truly amazing what 80% of the population will do for money. Kill, steal, swindle, lie, back stab, corrupt, ruin, the list goes on and on. Aren't we just a fine species to be running this planet!

Caveat emptor! Let the buyer beware

... no dealership could make it mandatory you use them exclusively for oil changes. If they did it would have to be at no charge.....some kind of law.

It's the Magnussen-Moss Warranty Act.

"the Act says warranty coverage may not be conditioned upon the use of only the vehicle manufacturer's parts unless the parts are provided free of charge."

Here is a link to the web site of an organization that is an industry group for aftermarket parts manufacturers:

http://www.sema.org/main/semaorghome.aspx?ID=8124

I wonder if Honda dealers and sales people take a certified Honda course in lying, or they just learned it at the ten other dealerships they worked at before coming to Honda?

It's truly amazing what 80% of the population will do for money. Kill, steal, swindle, lie, back stab, corrupt, ruin, the list goes on and on. Aren't we just a fine species to be running this planet!

Caveat emptor! Let the buyer beware

HMMMMMM.....having worked for a Honda dealer for the last 15 years i dont quite know how to comment to this one.......dometimes its just better to say nothing at all.

HMMMMMM.....having worked for a Honda dealer for the last 15 years i dont quite know how to comment to this one.......dometimes its just better to say nothing at all.

There is an acception to every rule. Not every car dealer is a bad guy. I've been shafted by one or two but I've also talked with some really straight up guys as well. The first thing to do is learn as much as you can about what you're buying. That's why I'm here.

HMMMMMM.....having worked for a Honda dealer for the last 15 years i dont quite know how to comment to this one.......dometimes its just better to say nothing at all.

There is an acception to every rule. Not every car dealer is a bad guy. I've been shafted by one or two but I've also talked with some really straight up guys as well. The first thing to do is learn as much as you can about what you're buying. That's why I'm here.

In having dealings with different dealers an a daily basis ( both import and domestic ) i do scratch my head at time and wonder how these guys stay in business.My objection was this remark "I wonder if Honda dealers and sales people take a certified Honda course in lying, or they just learned it at the ten other dealerships they worked at before coming to Honda?"


Buy as in all aspects in life everyone is intitled to an opinion.

I had a discussion with my manger on this at one time(i'm a tech for acura). By law we can't tell someone it's not warranty because they didn't do a service or oil changes with us. If the motor blows up, they may need some proof the oil was changed some time.

Aftermarket stuff that voids warranty. If the item directly affected the vehicle causing a problem, then warranty is void for that item, not the whole car.

Today I came back from the dealer Holler Honda in Winter Park, FL. My E is pulling slightly to the right while driving. I just purchased this vehicle in July! In August I added some 20" Fusion wheels for cosmetic appeal. I had no problems with the car until right at my first (dealer free) oil change, the car has this problem. When I took it in to get fixed along with a clicking sound from my seat when I stop N go, they told me the alignment is not covered under warranty due to aftermarket wheels! I think this has no relation to the alignment, also I didn't have a problem until a few weeks ago.

Can somebody give me some help on this. They want $65 for the alignment. Isn't it still warranty included???

I don't know what to say on this one. My dealership would prob still warranty one as long as it wasn't lowered. But different tires and wheels can make a car track different.

Make sure you just aren't experiencing road crown either. The right lane slopes to the right, the left lane slopes to the left. Your car will drift the way the road slopes. So, kinda see if you can find a spot where it won't drift either way. Kinda hard to get a feel for.

Tires can cause pull also.

Just spoke with my friendly, local U-haul store about hitches and was informed that If I install a >2k lb rated hitch w/o installing a tranny cooler that it would void my warranty. He had just dealt with this with Honda recently.

Anyone else consider this when installing Class II and III hitches?

I was all ready to make the plunge too... not now. :confused:

I would rather talk to Honda than U-Haul over what voids warranty or not. They will be able to tell you what your options are. Of course they are going to push the oem one but tell them you just want to know what the max rating of a hitch to put on the e would be without voiding warranty.

I agree and plan on calling them as soon as they open this morning.

The U-Haul salesperson was simply trying to sell you a transmission cooler. I would actually be more concerned that the mere presence of the add-on external cooler would cause the Honda dealer to balk over non-standard mods to the transmission fluid circuit should you have transmission-related problems.

However, with or without the external cooler, installing a hitch with a rating substantially exceeding the E's 1500# is playing footsie with the "abuse" clause of the vehicle warranty. The heavy-duty tow equipment is prima facie indication of intent or a history of exceeding vehicle specs.

You gotta love the response I got from Honda:

"well it doesn't necessarily void your warranty but if you have any problems they can come back to you and say they won't honor the warranty repair because you have the ability to hook up more than 1500lbs"

My response:
"heck, I have the ability to chain a house to the rear bumper and try to tow it right now, so could that cause me problems too?"

I think I'll go ahead with it. Of course I don't plan on towing more than 1500 lbs (honestly) I just want the 2" receiver!

>...I just want the 2" receiver!

I'm with you. I fought the same issues on my previous vehicle, which came with the small receiver from the factory. Whoever came up with the stupid 1-1/4" drawbar 'standard' should be shot... or at least suspended by his big toes.

:roll:

The stock, over-priced 1.25" receiver hitch has a 2,000# capacity, so Honda is also "voiding" the warranty.

Total B.S. in my opinion.

If an aftermarket hitch voided the warranty then the dealer i work for wouldnt have been sending out our new cars to have them installed.

If an aftermarket hitch voided the warranty then the dealer i work for wouldnt have been sending out our new cars to have them installed.
Actually that is not true. I am not going to argue whether the warranty would be void, but instead say that whatever the dealer does to a car has nothing to do with a cars warranty. The Dealer is not the one that backs the warranty, American Honda is. Just because a Dealer does something doesn't ever mean it is kosher with American Honda. A Dealer is not anything more than a franchisee of Honda's. They can lose that franchise at the drop of a hat for the most part.

How can I make the above statement? Very easily. I was one of the first people to go through the NY State Lemon Law when it went into affect back in 1987. I had a brand new '87 VW GTI with a Dealer installed alarm and hood lock. This install caused my car to leak like a sieve. I fought the dealer and VW themselves. VW brought in a technical expert who said that because VW didn't design the car with the alarm and hood lock they how could they be held responsible for the damage these parts caused. He was 100% right. The Dealer was the cause of these issues and they eventually made good on them. They bought my 11 month old GTI back from me for exactly what I paid for it and I bought a brand new '88 16V GTI for the same money. It was a win win for me and the Dealer made a customer happy. Up until we went to arbitration the Dealer didn't realize they were the cause of this... even though I pointed out they were.

My point is, ANY Dealer installed item that is NOT a Honda part can cause you to lose any and all of your American Honda Warranty. The Dealers don't warrant the Element, American Honda does.

This is where the Magnuson-Moss Act is supposed to protect the consumer... but this isn't always the case.

I don't think a dealer would care. Doesn't the dealer make money on warranty work anyway? They get paid by the "Company" for the work.

:roll: I've seen talk about hitches with high weight ratings, but has anyone actually pulled more than 1,500 lbs with their E? I would love to hear how well this little truck works in a real world situation.

I notice that when I have 4 full size adults, the engine works much harder to climb a hill. If I remember correctly, it's only rated to carry 600lb inside - which is roughly the equivalent of 4 adults.

I chose a class 1 hitch with 2k rating because I seriously doubt my E could pull anything heavier. It's tough for me to imagine that a stock E could pull a trailer that weighs more than 2k lbs, especially if there were two or more adults in the E and possibly lugage, bicycles, camping equipment, etc.

I love my E for daily driving and errands, but it just doesn't cut the mustard when a true SUV is needed.

BTW, I have an adapter that enables me to use class 3 accessories with my class 1 hitch. Not a perfect solution, but since it extends about a foot I get better access to the rear compartment this way.

:)

Yes, it will easily tow more than 1,500#. If you look at this topic http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7940 you will see that the Australian CRV, which has the same powertrain as the U.S. Element, is approved to tow 2,695# if the trailer has brakes. Clearly it is the lawyers in the U.S. that keeps the approved towing capacity limited.

I understand one Element easily towed 1,850# up steep, long hills while accelerating or maintaining high speeds.

Yes, it will easily tow more than 1,500#. If you look at this topic http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7940 you will see that the Australian CRV, which has the same powertrain as the U.S. Element, is approved to tow 2,695# if the trailer has brakes. Clearly it is the lawyers in the U.S. that keeps the approved towing capacity limited.

I understand one Element easily towed 1,850# up steep, long hills while accelerating or maintaining high speeds.

I mostly agree with Bigfoot on this (that the US Element towing #s are conservative), with the following caveat: because the E is heavier than the CRV with the same engine, has a completely different rear suspension than the CRV, and is taller and has a shorter wheelbase than the CRV, I suspect that, were the Element marketed in Australia, the more explicit Australian towing numbers for the Element wouldn't be as high as the CRV.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

And, as always, the driver is responsible for safe operation of his/her vehicle. When towing, or even considering towing, a heavy load, caution is warranted at every step.

-brendan

well if you look at it this way, even with a smaller receiver 1 1/4, you can still add a 2" ball and tow over 1500#s. And without evidence of you towing more it wold be hard to prove you did.

A dealer dosnt get the same hours (flag time) for the same job. For example if the dealer gets paid .75 hours to change the oil from the manufacture as a warranty deal. A customer pay would be like 1.0 hours (example) so the average Warranty repair is about 25% less for the dealer to get paid.

As for the warranty on the trailer hitch it is up to the local dealer to decide. The dealer or service writer makes the decisions if your car is under warranty or not. If you get a service writer in a bad mood he can make your life a living hell. But if you know the writer he can take care of stuff that isnt even covered under your warranty.

The old saying "Its all about who you Know"

Mark

Thanks.

I followed the 'chain of command' and advised the dealership that I would follow up with Honda if the problem wasn't taken care of. They couldn't determine if it was or wasn't because of the wheels that my care was pulling right.

Eventually they offerred a free of charge tire rotation ( $12.95 value) and it seems to have taken care of the issue.

I still feel a slight vibration in excess speeds of 70mph but I understand this can be related to the aftermarket wheels not having a perfect factory fit.

So if i put on a cold air intake or cat back exhuast, what will happen to my warranty? What problems could happen that would be blamed on either of those mods? Whats the worst case scenerio of adding these?

So if i put on a cold air intake or cat back exhuast, what will happen to my warranty? What problems could happen that would be blamed on either of those mods? Whats the worst case scenerio of adding these?

Do a search this is everywhere in here. As stated by Lars (and the Magnessum-somthing-or-other Act) only part in question can not be warranteed.

If you have a K&N CAI and the engine blows up, as long as it was not the CAI that did it, it would still be under warranty.

Check with E-SHEN as well, as he has dug up the wording before.

ANY modification can be blamed for ANY mechanical failure.

Example: Intake or exhaust.

Adding either one of those will make the engine operate in a way that wasn't designed by the manufacturers, so we can assume that it will affect the engine in some way. If the engine fails, all they have to do is blame the intake or exhaust stating that the engine was not operating within manufacturer spec and it caused a failure.

How can you prove against something like that?

I could be wrong, just my logic working here. Feel free to discredit it. I want an intake in the worst way!

Here is the deal: I have never seen someones entire warranty voided. Specific areas may be affected if your vehicle fails due to something that your directly manipulated. I.E.: Drivers airbag deploys because you ran the constant hot wire from your aftermarket alarm to the hot wire of the drivers airbag. With this example, if you came in expecting a warranty repair, the dealer would turn down your warranty repair for that component not the whole car. If the same car comes in with a seat belt that doesn't retract, that would still be warranty. As far as services go, keep records, these allegations are generally referred to about voiding warranty because it ain't warranty if you don't change your oil for thirty thousand miles and your engine don't want to go. The consumer does have some responsibility to the upkeep of thier car. Keep records and you will be fine. ALL DEALERS DON"T LIE. Some are actually competitively priced against your favorite "garage". Some people are actually nice and genuinely care about your needs. Honda did not achieve the status it has achieved by lying, shucking, and jiving. Gonna hop off my soapbox now. Thanks

Good post!

Your credibility would be enhanced if you had a different screen name however, :razz:

Today I came back from the dealer Holler Honda in Winter Park, FL. My E is pulling slightly to the right while driving. I just purchased this vehicle in July! In August I added some 20" Fusion wheels for cosmetic appeal. I had no problems with the car until right at my first (dealer free) oil change, the car has this problem. When I took it in to get fixed along with a clicking sound from my seat when I stop N go, they told me the alignment is not covered under warranty due to aftermarket wheels! I think this has no relation to the alignment, also I didn't have a problem until a few weeks ago.

Can somebody give me some help on this. They want $65 for the alignment. Isn't it still warranty included???
Maybe I'm wrong (there's a first!) but I've never even considered an allignment as a warranty issue. Didn't you have the car realigned when you changed wheels and tires? :confused: Are your expectations too high or are mine too low?

This is the post and Act I was referring too:
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12757&highlight=mag%2A

"Moss-Magnusson Warranty Act
(15 U.S.C. 2302(C)(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if: (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor."

Again an intake is not grounds for all failures in your any engine. Only those attributed to the intake.

Maybe I'm wrong (there's a first!) but I've never even considered an allignment as a warranty issue. Didn't you have the car realigned when you changed wheels and tires? :confused: Are your expectations too high or are mine too low?


Of course, I had the balance/alignment all done by cpu when the new wheels went on. The problem with the pull hapenned about 2 months later and for no specific reason. That is why I consider this an issue the dealer should have satisfied free of charge(warranty).

I took my dealer to court for trying to void my warranty.
The good thing that came out of it is that I won my case easy.
Trans problem with mine.

...WELL I will not re-state what the others have already said, but... I do feel very strongly about my Honda being a quality vehicle with a solid feel. I have a client that repairs VOLVO's for a living - he makes a VERY nice living REPAIRING volvo's - and he clearly stated that the volvo's of today are NOT the volvo's from yesterday! I considered volvo before purchasing my E, and hands down, the E won out --- it won on functionality, price, long-term value. I consulted with my accountant who is also a CPA...even brought him to the dealership to negotiate price. My accountant could afford to purchase any vehicle he wanted - he's had Caddies and Lincolns, and everything in between, but chooses to own a Honda Accord. We got my E for a couple hundred below invoice.

Sure, my client who repairs volvo's was a little pissed at me at first for not getting a Volvo, but, I took him to dinner in my new E, gave him a kiss, a wink, and a nice firm slap on the a**, and everything is just fine... :evil:

...oh, about not voiding your warranty, yes, I am very conservative and use ONLY genuine HONDA accessories purchased exclusivly from H and A; they have reasonable prices, and excellent customer service.

snipped...

Volvo has a High Mileage Club, in which they send you an grille badge with 100,000, 200,000, 300,000, etc miles on it as you accumulate them on your odo.


Can't recall selling a car with less than 200,00 on it . . . all Chevys. :lol:

aEsop, I absolutely disagree about Honda not being a "driver's car". My first Honda was a '74 Civic "shoebox". Handled like a dream and was pretty fast. Then I put the custom suspension, sticky tires and Weber carbs on it. At that point, it could outrun and out-handle most of the common European sportscars. Don't ask me how I found that out. Let's just say I was young and foolish.

My second Honda was an '88 CRX. The stock performance was superb. The car is in demand to this day. I put a Jackson Racing suspension on it, Tokico adjustable shocks, roll bar, and sticky wide tires on wide rims, and it handled like a race car. I took it to many track days and racing schools at Portland International Raceway, and did hundreds of laps with it, with no failures. What more could you ask? And it was CHEAP.

My third Honda is the Element. It handles and accelerates very well, given its size and versatility. So what's the problem? Yes, you can buy a car that handles better. But Hondas handle just fine at reasonable street speeds. Porsches handle well at racing speeds, but almost nobody cares.

I checked out the maintenance schedule for my E. Also browsed the dealer's service dept's maintenance list. I see a lot of "inspect" and "check" For this they want $200. I don't see where they are actually performing any service other than an oil change, lube and tire rotation.

Well, Lord knows those wranglers need regularly rotating. Oil change and lubes are another no-brainer.

My question is, why should a warranty become void just because you didn't have your dealer LOOK at your car. That is all they do. They aren't servicing anything as far as I can tell.

Hey guys

Would any aftermarket intake system void warranty? I know some dealerships are more liberal than others with something so small such as this...just wondering if anyone has the answer.

I think a cold air intake, or even a short ram would give the car a bit more air..maybe squeeze a mile per gallon or two out..

Thanks guys

well most dealers are ok with it, but if you feel like yours will get picky at you, you can just put the stocker back on when you take it in for service. Or you can do a drop in filter which should get you a MPG or two. I say drop in filter if you have a picky dealer, cold air if not picky

I already asked this somewhere else...but if someone from a dealership can tell me...will a Short Ram or Cold Air Intake void my warranty?

It should not. To be exact please contact Shen. He made a post a very long time about the Magnusum Act or something like that. It basically explains how certain aftermarket items CAN NOT void an overall warranty.

It should not. To be exact please contact Shen. He made a post a very long time about the Magnusum Act or something like that. It basically explains how certain aftermarket items CAN NOT void an overall warranty.
---unless it can be directly linked to be the cause of the problem and only void the warrantee regarding the particular problem.

nice...

Any of you guys know the HP increases both the short ram and CAI's have been making for the Element?

I'm starting to think a CAI might sit too low for the occasional flood I need to drive through.

But then again you guys all would know best.

well they claim like 7 HP but 4-5 is more realistic

NO, According to the Magnusson-Moss Act of 1975 (see below):

The Magnusson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975 protects consumers from such fradulent activity by new car dealers. Under this Act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not void a vehicle manufacturer's orginial warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warrany or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure. The easiest way to check this is to look in your owner's manual under, "what is not covered". Under Magnusson-Moss Act a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before they can deny warranty coverage. If they cannot prove such claim-or offer an explanation- it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission (202.326.3128) administers the Magnusson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law.

I have posted this B-4. I cant rember what thread. Did a search must have looked in the wrong place. So here it is one more time!

Magnusson-Moss Act

New Vehicle Warranties And Your Rights

No aftermarket part or accessory that is properly installed on your vehicle will entirely void your original vehicle manufacturers warranty. According to the provisions in the Magnuson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act, It is the dealership's responsibility to prove that your modification directly caused or affected the failure you are trying to resolve. With that said, some dealerships are more performance-oriented than others and are more willing to work with customers.

Warranty-related materials, published by the new vehicle manufacturers, state that the installation of aftermarket parts have no effect on the warranty unless such equipment causes the problem that leads to the warranty claim. Nonetheless, some dealers have improperly denied warranty claims even though the claim had nothing to do with aftermarket parts. I.E., just because you install an exhaust system, your suspension failure warranty claim cannot be denied. If you experience a problem with an uncooperative dealership, point out the provisions of the this "FEDERAL ACT". For more information call your vehicle manufacturer or click on the link above to go directly to the Federal Trade Commission's website to find out more about this law.

Is there even more information available to me?

Yes, SEMA, the Specialty Equipment Market Association, has extensive information about this issue. Check out their information in the following categories:

(1) Warranty Denied?
(2) Unfair Warranty Denial?

SEMA also keeps track of illegal / unethical practices by dealers regarding this area. If you should have to go to court or to arbitration to settle your warranty complaint, contact SEMA with the details.

What else can I do?

In large cities, there are always other dealers you can do business with. It's a good idea to find out about the most cooperative performance-oriented dealer available to you by checking with clubs, local groups, etc.

If you live in smaller communities, make sure that an uncooperative dealer knows that they are giving you plenty of reason to take you business elsewhere.

If you should have to do that, write the "manufacturer" to tell them that their dealer's activities have caused you to buy from another car company!

I did a search... anyone of an CAI that is CARB approved? I wouldn't want to take it off everytime I go to get a smog check.

^^^^^^^Anyone?

I did a search... anyone of an CAI that is CARB approved? I wouldn't want to take it off everytime I go to get a smog check.

the big name brand companies pay the fees to have their systems pass the C.A.R.B. tests so they are able to sell into the largest market in the US. AEM Power, Injen and K&N are all C.A.R.B. tested and approved... or are pending testing and approval. It all depends on how new the car and system are. These companies rarely sell without first getting approval and the sticker for their systems. This goes for exhausts as well as intakes. Some of the electronic devices can't get C.A.R.B. approval for obvious reasons though.

All you need to do is hit each companies website and you will see the various dyno charts, C.A.R.B. info plus other things.

Okay, another accountant weighing in... one who knows a bit about cars.
1. All dealers aren't bad, they're like any other business - some good, some bad. Word of mouth is the best way to find one. Also, yes, learn about the product.

2. I have an Element because it's practical and reliable. Honda is known for their motor engineering, always has been. I've been on Honda motorcycles, street and dirt, for almost 30 years. Would I like a 911 or an NSX? Sure! As soon as my mortgage is paid off. In the meantime, there's Malibu Grand Prix, or my dirt bike. The Element is fun - it's Civic-based - were it only Civic-based from the double-wishbone days. Oh well. I'll probably drop it an inch or so later in its life and get some decent suspension.

3. Volvos were delightful and simple, until the early '70s. Now I don't see any reason to spend the extra money. The lower - end ones are rebadged Mitsubishis from Belgium, anyway.

4. My car is more American than most Ford Foci, Cadillac EXT pickups, or many other "American" cars.

I could rant more... time to go home!

SoCalKid86 --- if you are seeking the endorsement from somebody who works at a dealership you will be disappointed. No one in a position of authority at a dealership is gonna tell you, "sure! do what ya want, just be careful".

The way I see it you have a couple of options:

A) you can read the info already provided and make up your mind
B) you can rely on something somebody tells you on the Internet
C) some mixture of both

You've essentially dismissed option A, and if you rely on option B that tells me you'd probably better not attempt this mod.

The K&N comes with the appropriate Carb sticker/plate that it is approved. If they Hastle you....All you need do it point to it with your middle finger :D

you may also want to take into consideration the volume increase the addition of this will add. i just installed the K&N Typhoon system and man, is it loud under acceleration. not to say i'll get used to it, just be ready for it and really do not expect "oh my god!" to be your reaction to any HP gain.

the big name brand companies pay the fees to have their systems pass the C.A.R.B. tests so they are able to sell into the largest market in the US. AEM Power, Injen and K&N are all C.A.R.B. tested and approved... or are pending testing and approval. It all depends on how new the car and system are. These companies rarely sell without first getting approval and the sticker for their systems. This goes for exhausts as well as intakes. Some of the electronic devices can't get C.A.R.B. approval for obvious reasons though.

All you need to do is hit each companies website and you will see the various dyno charts, C.A.R.B. info plus other things.

Larry is correct.

The only one currently listed as having a C.A.R.B. number is the K&N.
The injen definitely does not have one yet and the AEM website is very nonspecific.
It only says that all their intakes either have one or are pending approval.

"Pending" really doesn't mean crap.
It is either currently approved or not.

Something to bear in mind for those in CA thinking of adding intake.

I have the AEM and it is CARB approved. But yeah, like everyone else says, your not gonna feel major gains from just an intake.
L.

I have an '05 E, and was wondering if making mods voids my warranty. For example, if I do the flashing side-marker mod will that void any claims on electrical work in the future? Thanks

This all depends on the dealer and how they interpret your warranty and how strong your convictions are in defending your rights.

The way it is supposed to work is any work you do on your vehicle only will void whatever you directly touch. Lets say you change the tires on your Element, then you no long have the Goodyear tire warranty. If you install springs and lower your Element then your spring warranty is void, but you could argue if a shock blows that the springs didn't affect the shock... that is a tough issue in some cases.

If you install a supercharger on the Element and the engine blows then the engine costs come out of your pocket. If the tranny blows after you install a supercharger then you have a fight on your hands.

Does this all make sense? If you want go search for the Magnuson-Moss Act, it covers aftermarket parts and accessories. You should also try and purchase aftermarket items from companies that support SEMA as they fight manufacturers all the time on things like warranty denial.

HTH

Excellent- thanks!

I spoke with First Texas Honda in Austin and if the accessory does not cause any errors or warning lights then it will not void the warranty.

I am told K&N is the way to go and installation is a breeze.... and you can pick a color.

If you look in your warranty book it goes over pretty well into what you can and can't do. As far as what I can say is any think that you do is ok as far as you don't touch the engine, exaust, and electric componets. You can always call your Honda store.

First, let me say this is a great forum. I just got a 2006 EXP yesterday and this forum has a great deal of very useful information.

I'm thinking of doing a billet grille on the lower half of my E, but I have 2 questions:

1) How necessary are these in terms of preventing damage to the radiator.

I had a 2002 CRV I just traded that had maybe 6-8 dings in it over 50K miles. I live in a city. The rocks only hit the aluminum fins which really isn't a big deal.

2) Since a billet grille reduces airflow, has anyone ever had a dealership tell them this would impact the vehicle warranty.

I know it may not be much, but I assume the engine will run a little warmer with decreased arirflow and that might impact longevity.

Any thoughts or comments are appreciated.

Peace!
;-)

First, let me say this is a great forum. I just got a 2006 EXP yesterday and this forum has a great deal of very useful information.

I'm thinking of doing a billet grille on the lower half of my E, but I have 2 questions:

1) How necessary are these in terms of preventing damage to the radiator.

I had a 2002 CRV I just traded that had maybe 6-8 dings in it over 50K miles. I live in a city. The rocks only hit the aluminum fins which really isn't a big deal.

2) Since a billet grille reduces airflow, has anyone ever had a dealership tell them this would impact the vehicle warranty.

I know it may not be much, but I assume the engine will run a little warmer with decreased arirflow and that might impact longevity.

Any thoughts or comments are appreciated.

Peace!
;-)

If you get damage in this area it will not be covered under any warranty.
I confirmed this with a Honda Tech.

Yeah, same as if a windshield takes a rock.

I'm trying to guage the risk of a stone to the radiator. Any folks with the factory grilles who have had any problems? Also, any folks with the mod who have had any engine issues related to decreased cooling? :razz:

I have been using a cloud rider grille for 3 years now.And if it is decreasing air flow i have yet to notice.Even on the hottest summer days my temp guage stays right where its supposed to be.

I wouldnt worry about warranty problems.....as has already beens stated ....warranty wont cover debris taking out your condensor or rad.

Thanks for the info.....I'll check out th cloud rider. Just what I'm looking for!

I just did an oil change, 4934 miles. I figure oil is pretty cheap and I need this car to last til it falls apart.
I made the decision to go with Mobil1, but it has popped up a couple times around here that you might be able to void your warranty by not going to the dealer. I also remember reading: keep your receipts, you'll be fine.

So, my question: will I void my warranty if I use Mobil1 and change the oil myself instead of the Honda brand (which I didnt even know existed, this is my first Honda) at the dealer. I plan to go to the dealer tomorrow and get them to "stamp" my owners manual if they will do it after they see my receipt for the 6 quarts ( only put in 4.5) and the filter which actually has my cars info right next to it from the look up.

I hope I dont ignite a RTFM or Use the search function (both of which I have done) but this new car thing makes me nervous sometimes.

Damn I love this car though: 1 month and 29 days, 4936 miles.

>I also remember reading: keep your receipts, you'll be fine.

There's your answer. It is against the law to require dealer maintenance as a condition of warranty.

Thanks, I will sleep better and that makes sense.

By the way, your other studies and research on oil and filters is fascinating. Thanks for that too.

Smart move on the Mobile1. You only get the full benefit of synthic oil if you change your oil at the regular intervals of 5K miles, like you are.
I think it's silly for people to use synthic and let it run 10 or 15K miles.

I think it's silly for people to use synthic and let it run 10 or 15K miles.

If that is the case, then isn't silly to use synthetic oil?

I just did my oil change and used mobil 1. I would do it myself, but I live in an apartment and they frown upon any auto repair where fluids are being changed, incase of a spill. I go a small independant shop down the street, as they are very competant, friendly and honest. I paid about $40 for my synthetic oil change. The dealer wanted $70. I just keep all my receipts so the dealer can't ever say I never did any maintenance.

I get my oil changed at Wally World. There is absolutely no need to have the dealer stamp your manual. It would be illegal for Honda to require service to be done only at a Honda dealer. Just keep all your receipts. One other thing you can do (I have done this after each oil change): log into the Honda Owner's Link website and record your oil change there. You can put in the date, mileage, cost, and who performed the service (self, Wally World, or the neighborhood lube center). That way, when you need warranty work done at any Honda dealer, they will have access to the info you have posted there. Then, they won't give you a hassle about routine maintenance.

You only get the full benefit of synthic oil if you change your oil at the regular intervals of 5K miles, like you are.
I think it's silly for people to use synthic and let it run 10 or 15K miles.

I don't think your first statement is true. And the ONLY way to know for sure is to have your oil analyzed at each change to see if it was ok, needed changing or could go longer. And everyone would be different because we all drive differently.

Also, the regular oil change interval for the Element in normal use is 10k miles. Not sure why everyone distrusts Honda and goes to the extra expense. If you tow things or go on big trips a lot, then use the 5k interval.

Not sure why everyone distrusts Honda and goes to the extra expense. If you tow things or go on big trips a lot, then use the 5k interval.
I think people around here know that I'm the "experiment" type. I tried the 10K change once to see the difference, with just a filter change at 5K (let's say I know a little about filters). While I didn't do a UOA (used oil analysis) like I had intended, it was damn obvious at the change that the oil was much, much more contaminated than I was accustomed to seeing. I will never do 10K again. Yet I would consider my driving patterns non-stressful and fully within the manufacturer's "normal" service schedule.

As I've said elsewhere, oil change interval is dictated by the need to remove contaminants - combustion bypass, moisture, oxidation, dilution - not because the lubricant is worn-out.

I am curious where the paranoia comes from with oil changes? Has anyone ever had their warranty questioned over an oil change???? I am on my 7th brand new car and have never had a service center ask me about it. ever. I have also leased 3 cars...and not even they have questioned it. I have always run synthetic and change my oil every 3000-4000 miles at my own expense because I want the vehicle to run for a long time! Obviously the break in period I am running the stock oil....but for longevity I run synthetic. I think if you're trying to beat the crap out of your car...thats one thing, and a dealer will SEE that you don't care. Most of us do tho....so I say relax about it. Yah?

I am curious where the paranoia comes from with oil changes? Has anyone ever had their warranty questioned over an oil change????
Odds are that you will never be questioned about service history, but those odds are not 100%. If you experience a major failure, especially towards the end of the warranty period, you will be asked to prove conforming service history.

Legally, the burden is on the warranty provider (usually the manufacturer) to prove that the failure was attributable to a lack of maintenance or "unauthorized" modifications. But that doesn't mean that - at the dealer level - they won't hassle you first to assert that it was your fault before doing any detective work. Most people don't understand this, that the provider has to prove it first, but by that point your engine (or whatever) is in pieces, and then the arguing gets really ugly.

We're talking about the Magnuson/Moss (sp?) Act. I think it was passed in1974 or something and clearly puts the burden of proof on the manufacturer.

The thing about full synthetic oil is how clean it leaves the interior of an engine. Drop the pan on a 100,000 mile engine thats lived on synthetic changed every 5,000 and there will be no "How often did you change your oil?" questions.

i just purchased a 2006 E today, and was told they will do every other oil change for me for free as long as i own the car. 3500 miles for every change.

i asked if they will honor the changes with synthetic??? they said no, and that the service department does not recommend using synthetics on the E.

anyone ever hear that nonsense??:?

i just purchased a 2006 E today, and was told they will do every other oil change for me for free as long as i own the car. 3500 miles for every change.

i asked if they will honor the changes with synthetic??? they said no, and that the service department does not recommend using synthetics on the E.

anyone ever hear that nonsense??:?Pretty much par for the course from car dealers.

Free oil changes is a good deal, but of course the 3,500 mile interval is B.S. Watch for "oh you need yet another air filter" or "we replaced your wiper blades" to go along with their "generous" offer.

i learned a long time ago to make them repeat back to me... "don't touch anything except what we discussed."

i have decided to make this car a home maintained vehicle. service manual is the next purchase.:cool:

I want to get the overhead DVD player installed where the dome light comes through the headliner. So my question is, Will this Void any warranties ?

I will be getting the player installed by a professional installer.

I live in Pennsylvania just incase it matters when answering the question.

Thanks in advance!

Twenty five years ago, Congress passed a law called the Magnuson Moss Act, which you should Google. It gives you many of your rights as a consumer. For example, after the Magnuson Moss Act, warranties had to be transferable to a second owner. Also, bogus lifetime warranties were outlawed. If something is covered by a lifetime warranty, then it's really a lifetime warranty with very few exceptions.

To the point here, if you add your overhead DVD piece, the Magnuson Moss Act requires the burdon of proof in denying a warranty claim to be on Honda. They have to prove your modification damaged the car. This can be hard, especially the further and further away you get from the overhead DVD piece. If the dome light doesn't work, it might be easy to prove you damaged it. If the car's computer blows up, they have to show your modification created a short that caused the computer to fail. It will be a stretch for the dealer to say that the alternator went down because of your DVD piece.

Before the Magnuson Moss Act, a car company could say any modification, no matter how incidental, caused a piece to fail. Now they have to prove that claim and that's a lot tougher. Not impossible by any means, but tougher.

Very informative Outpost. Thanks

OutPost4: thanks for the great post I will be certain and Google the information.

thanks again

:)

From Honda Motor Company point of view you can do all your own maintenace as long as a) you can provide detailed reciepts showing what you have done and b) you must use a Honda oil filter! Make sure you have recipts showing dates ect (date oil was purchased) and make sure you buy your oil filter from a honda dealer. If there is every any concern on your Honda you think to be oil related make sure you have a Honda oil filter on that engine!!!!! I cannot stress that enough.

We had this kid come into our dealership a few years ago he had purchased a used Prelude that had a bad engine, the kid opted to buy a brand new Honda engine at the tune of $8000.00 (installed) and off he went, a few months later he came back in and the new engine was toast.

To make a long story short he was doing his own oil changes and screwed up something, we went to make a claim to Honda and all they wasked was is there a Honda Oil filter, the kid had a penzoil special on there and Honda declined any warranty on the engine because there was not a Honda oil filter. If he had a honda oil filter all was good.

"Legally, the burden is on the warranty provider (usually the manufacturer) to prove that the failure was attributable to a lack of maintenance or "unauthorized" modifications. But that doesn't mean that - at the dealer level - they won't hassle you first to assert that it was your fault before doing any detective work. Most people don't understand this, that the provider has to prove it first, but by that point your engine (or whatever) is in pieces, and then the arguing gets really ugly"

That is true and its not all in the same. Its not up to Honda to prove that your lack of maintenance caused the failure, the responsibility is on you to keep records and show that you did what you had to do when you were supposed to. If you cannot prove that then Honda does not have to repair the vehicle for you. Thats all part of the "legal" stuff you agreed to when you signed your bill of sale. But as formentioned in the quote its hard to prove what caused the failure, as long as your using a Honda oil filter, changing your oil at the specified intervals as per Honda, regardless if your using synthetic or not, you will be fine.

My 2 cents

CB

That is absurd. Honda would have had to claim that the filter was the fault... ie a bad anti-drainback valve that absolutely damaged the engine, filter media dissolving and going into the oil galleries, burst can, something....

Without a determination that the actual filter used caused the damage to be done, simply denying Honda warranty coverage because of a brand of filter not being Honda would be a violation of law. Honda dealership would have lost that battle, again, if there was not proof that the filter damaged the engine. Filter brands are specifically mentioned in the analysis of the law from my dealings with this subject. I used to manufacture and distribute a compressor oil filter for Vilter refrigeration compressors and fought that battle many times.

If the kid rolled over and did not fight the dealer, that dealer was just a bully.

I'm not sure of the details of the battles MarkC fought, but the fact that they WERE fought bolsters the positions of MikeQBF and 2005sopcdn, and mirrors my experience w/ warranty claims "at the Dealer level," i.e., not at the level of arguments in court or court decisions, which is a level where I have fought as plaintiff against retailers on warranties [and other issues.]

At the Dealer level, they often DON'T CARE [or don't even KNOW] they are going against the law; as you say, Mark, they are bullying, [conning, lying to] the customer in hopes of killing the issue at that level, quickly, and saving $. How many times has THAT happened to all of us in the marketplace? [I see it every time I'm IN the marketplace, or am subjected to an advertisement.]

The arguments used by the the Dealer at the service counter often differ hugely from what the Dealer will argue in court. If the kid that 2005sop's mentions filed a lawsuit, it probably wouldn't GET to court because LEGALLY the Dealer's position IS absurd.

Hyundai is now denying wararanty claims on standard trans clutches that fail prematurely, telling the customers that it's a "usage issue." This is an absurd claim to make to a customers who had their clutches replaced 5,000 mi ago, and now need ANOTHER replacement. Being legally or logically absurd doesn't mean it won't happen. I bet Hyundai will be sued in Class Action, and THEN will settle w/ customers, but not until they'v tested the waters at the Dealer level by bullying customers.

IMO it's crucial to be informed on ALL these issues: the scams the retailers are pulling on customers on the sales and service floors, the laws, and how the laws are interpreted in court.

It's instructive that in this thread posters are arguing over the interpretation of "almost."

"Fight the good fight..."

I'm not sure of the details of the battles MarkC fought, but the fact that they WERE fought bolsters the positions of MikeQBF and 2005sopcdn, and mirrors my experience w/ warranty claims "at the Dealer level," i.e., not at the level of arguments in court or court decisions, which is a level where I have fought as plaintiff against retailers on warranties [and other issues.]

It's instructive that in this thread posters are arguing over the interpretation of "almost."

"Fight the good fight..."

The fact is that every time one of these isues comes before an arbitration board or court, the manufacturer does not prevail. The Moss-Magunson Warranty Act is the law of the land.

I'm not quibbling over "almost". I lost one engine due to a faulty oil filter. That is unequivable. That was the challenge.

The fact is that every time one of these isues comes before an arbitration board or court, the manufacturer does not prevail. The Moss-Magunson Warranty Act is the law of the land.

I'm not quibbling over "almost". I lost one engine due to a faulty oil filter. That is unequivable. That was the challenge.

It's interesting that the manufacturers lose all the Moss Act cases, but that makes me wonder what their strategy is in contesting them, other than to create a hassle for the plaintiffs.

I didnt mean to imply you and the other poster were quibbling over semantics, but rather I was trying to show how important semantics IS when dealing w/ warranties and terms like "user issues," "normal wear and tear," "electronic," vs "electrical," "drive-train," etc.

"Be prepared."

Here in Canada that law does not exist, so perhaps Honda Canada has legal gounds to deny warranty in those instances here in Canada. I am not sure.

CB

Oops... I did not notice you were in Canada. All bets are off as far as that law goes. However, Canada probably has such a similar law in some form or another.

First off, I did use the search feature, but only found two pertinent threads...

It is my understanding that when installing 'aftermarket' (non-OEM) parts/equipment, as long as it does not impair with the mechanical workings of the vehicle then there is no way for the warranty to be voided. Like many on here, this is my first 'very own' new car, as I am a college student about to embark on paying for Grad school on my own, I want to make sure I can save cost (warranty work, etc) that I can. My question is this, I am going to be cutting the 'side pockets' and installing a fiberglass sub enclosure for a SQ-10 (once they come out), as well as taking out the spare tire to mount my Mono, and 2 Channel Xtant Amps (which are rather large, yet oh so powerful and awesome sounding) in the spare tire compartment.


Any opinions/ideas/experience that can help a brotha' out? Thanks!

Hello all... I'm a proud new owner of a green E. Of course I love it and can't wait to get started on my mods. It seems doing a lot of mods would void the warranty. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks.

Clearly the more serious mods like a 6-speed transmission would void the warranty. Some of the EOC members work for Honda as service representatives, you might ask them where the line is drawn on a particular mod that may void the warranty.

Clearly the more serious mods like a 6-speed transmission would void the warranty. Some of the EOC members work for Honda as service representatives, you might ask them where the line is drawn on a particular mod that may void the warranty.

The 6 spd conversion would only void the transmission, clutch and parts that are tied directly to that mod. The engine would not be touched neither would any other major part of the Element.

as spdrcr5 mentioned, mods only void the warranty of the part in questions. Let me do some searching on here and point you towards a particular law/act details this.

There are some laws that protect you. They ( The dealer/ car manufacture ) must prove that the failure was caused by the changes/ after market parts that you used/installed . In other words, Don't sweat it !!

Dom

In one extreme cause i seen a guy get his warranty voided on his engine after it filled with water and grenaded.....but he had a cold air intake that was run right to a cut out in the bottom of his bumper.

It has to be a major failure before they start pointed to certain mods...and like has been said already they have to prove that the od causes the failure.

Hey guys
I have an O5 EX E. I want to add a Viper alarm with a remote start for all of my cold Chicago winters. Will this kill my Honda Certified warranty?
Any feedback would be aprreciated.
Thanks

You're going to get them installed by a professional installer?

Should be no problem then.

and if there is a problem Viper (DEI) should cover it. Just remember DEI ONLY warrants their product if installed by a pro...

Voice mail today. Dealer saying that the warranty on my E requires preventative maintenace done by the dealership.

I get the feeling this guy is yanking my chain. Thoughts? :confused:

The simple answer?

Preventative maintenance must be performed but it doesn't have to be by the dealer.

Sounds like they are just trying to strong arm you into bringing in your wallet......i mean E.

Roger that. Exactly what I figured. This was at Schlossman's Honda City in Milwaukee, WI. This fella insinuated that the warranty was not going to be valid unless the service was performed by them.

Roger that. Exactly what I figured. This was at Schlossman's Honda City in Milwaukee, WI. This fella insinuated that the warranty was not going to be valid unless the service was performed by them.



You could always ask them to put it in writing.....im sure they will back off very quickly.



My dealership does send out reminders at service intervals......but we don't threaten people or use high pressure tactics.

Remember to have your work documented and to Honda's recommended items/intervals.

Regards,

Remember to have your work documented and to Honda's recommended items/intervals.

Regards,

Will do - thanks for the info all.

my dealer will extend my warranty to 5 years or 50,000 miles if i do all the required maint. with them. i have this in writing from them and it is at no extra cost for the warranty.

According the the Owners Manual '06 page 164:

40392

You don't even really have to document it or keep receipts.
If you're under warranty and a covered item fails, it's covered unless they can show that something you did (or didn't do) caused the failure.
The burden of proof is on Honda.

They can't deny my warranty claim simply because I don't have the receipts from changing my oil two years ago.
They would have to prove that I neglected basic maintenance and caused the failure or something I did contributed to the problem.

Voice mail today. Dealer saying that the warranty on my E requires preventative maintenace done by the dealership.

I get the feeling this guy is yanking my chain. Thoughts? :confused:

Total crap. I'd report them to, um, someone. Honda, maybe?

if something goes wrong after warrenty like a trans problem or something bigger honda will most likely GOODWILL the part.

this happens all the time with ODYS and ACCORDS. the rep will ask if they are a good customer and have been keeping up on maintances. if the customer has they ship the trans the next day.

We just looked at an 08' E at that dealership on 11-10-07. This has me concerned that I may go to the dealer in Waukesha. I don't like being threatened about having routine service done by a dealer to get warranty work done. GM pulled that garbage on me and I refuse to buy a GM vehicle because of it.......

Just a plug for the following link in FAQ / How To's > Honda Element - "How To" Archive (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/faq.php?faq=new_faq_item#faq_faq_eoc_howto):

Accessories, Care and Mods > Maintenance and Service > Must maintenance be performed at dealer to preserve warranty? (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31557)

I recently picked up an 08 NBP LX. I love the car, but the wheels could use a makeover. My concern is how will non-stock wheels/tires affect my warranty. I want to keep a similar wheel/tire size, same size if I need to. I've also seen some guys putting SC wheels on EX & LX's - how much did that cost compared to aftermarket?


http://www.paulkbraun.com/pics2/e pics/img_0271.jpg

if i instsall a injen cold air intake, will it viod my warranty?

Only if it can be blamed for a malfunction or failure.

ok cool thanx guys

Only if it can be blamed for a malfunction or failure.

Mkh, you are soo correct with this response! From a customers standpoint, the dealership has to be able to prove the modification contributed to the failure. Depending on how bullnosed the customer is, this could pose serious issues with the dealerships findings.

A Honda mechanic told me that if I change out air intake and there was a problem that I would have to prove that the none stock equipment did not cause the problem. Honda will say it motor was engineered for the equipment it came with. I do not know that this is true but the person that told me has been with Honda a long time.

In addition...If you have a problem and have any doubt as to whethere or not the service dept will kick up a fuss.....you can always put the stock intake back on before going in. From what i have seen if you take it in for something not related to the intake they won't question it.

On the other hand....if you come in with your E lowered to the ground with a header and the oil pan all scraped it because it sits too low and have a blown engine.....that would be a problem. And yes i have seen this scenario happen.

A Honda mechanic told me that if I change out air intake and there was a problem that I would have to prove that the none stock equipment did not cause the problem. Honda will say it motor was engineered for the equipment it came with. I do not know that this is true but the person that told me has been with Honda a long time.

The dealership are the people accusing your mod of causing the problem, so the burden of proof is on them.

The dealership are the people accusing your mod of causing the problem, so the burden of proof is on them.

Very true, and unless it is totally cut and dried as to a mod causing the problem, Dealer's will have no issue with fixing things under warranty with that kind of mod in place - Honda pays them lots of $$$ to do it.

Where the "written into warranty that mods can void" thing comes from is Dealer/Manufacturer protection from extreme modders who were doing major perfromance "enhancements" to their cars, racing them every weekend on the track, then expecting the Dealership to repair them under warranty when parts failed from that kind of abuse. These guys were doing things like putting in full Nitros kits, drag-racing until their pistons melted, then trying to get a free engine rebuild under warranty. :roll:

fyi - March 2008 Honda Service News mentions the whole cold air intake / warranty issue....

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/bh241/EOC/mods/honda_service_news_air_filter.jpg

fyi - March 2008 Honda Service News mentions the whole cold air intake / warranty issue....

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/bh241/EOC/mods/honda_service_news_air_filter.jpg


Well I guess that's pretty cut and dried!!!:-o

thanks for all that guys!:D

fyi - March 2008 Honda Service News mentions the whole cold air intake / warranty issue....

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/bh241/EOC/mods/honda_service_news_air_filter.jpg

Thanks for showing the service news article. Ends any questions I had.

Will doing any installs void parts of an extended warranty? Applying sound deadner etc. What about the JDM passenger door mod with splicing the wires? Just curious. Thanks!

Will doing any installs void parts of an extended warranty? Applying sound deadner etc. What about the JDM passenger door mod with splicing the wires? Just curious. Thanks!

You can't void a warranty by doing mods to your vehicle. However, if a particular mod causes a failure, that particular failure may not be covered. For example, if your JDM door mod causes a door lock solenoid to fry, the warranty co. would be perfectly within their rights to deny coverage on that failure.

You can't void a warranty by doing mods to your vehicle. However, if a particular mod causes a failure, that particular failure may not be covered. For example, if your JDM door mod causes a door lock solenoid to fry, the warranty co. would be perfectly within their rights to deny coverage on that failure.

Yep Yep Yep.

Another example: If you put a turbo on and the motor blows, the turbo, which you added, caused it so it would not be covered.

Will doing any installs void parts of an extended warranty? Applying sound deadner etc. What about the JDM passenger door mod with splicing the wires? Just curious. Thanks!
It depends on the sevice department. I used to install cellular phones in the old analog days and I had several instances where the customer had some kind of car issue and the service department claims it was the phone installation. I had one lady who had a Civic which I put a phone in and mounted the cradle to the hump beside the shifter. A few months later she started having a rattling noise and the mechanic claimed that I screwed into the transmission. Bear in mind that this is a front-wheel-drive car...I would have had to have 36" long screws and driven them straight forward to affect the tranny. It turns out she had a loose rock shield covering the exhaust. The mechanic was trying to make some easy money at the lady's expense. Most places would be a little more lenient, but ther is alwas one jerk in the bunch.

Thanks for the info guys!~

Look up the Moss Magnuson Act (at least I think that is what its called).

Its just the official law that backs up the 2 posts above.

If you install of have installed, a remote start, and then, 3 years later have the computer fry, be prepared to defend yourself or your installer. Not that it will happen to you, or through Honda, but there are still swindlers out there that try to take advantage of you. Because they think they are smarter than you.

My wife is nervous about me doing any DYI stuff because she fears the warranty will be voided.

Any info on what I can do myself and not void my warranty.

I have the 100,000 or 5 year extended with roadside, tires ...etc.

Welcome, Warden.

FAQ -- About the Element and Ownership from the EOC forum > Must maintenance be performed at dealer to preserve warranty? (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31557)

^ That applies to normal service, not modifications specifically. In either case, if you trip up and break something, only the system you worked on will be liable to dispute. In other words, if you short out a taillight, for example, it won't affect warranty coverage on your transmission.

Welcome, Warden.

FAQ -- About the Element and Ownership from the EOC forum > Must maintenance be performed at dealer to preserve warranty? (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31557)

^ That applies to normal service, not modifications specifically. In either case, if you trip up and break something, only the system you worked on will be liable to dispute. In other words, if you short out a taillight, for example, it won't affect warranty coverage on your transmission.

Thanks!

I live in Johnstown NY BTW...

Bought mine from Keeler in Albany.

Thanks!

I live in Johnstown NY BTW........

We might have already known that if the profile was filled in....... ;-):lol:

A LOT of people worry about DIY maintenance and hear that "if you don't use OEM (read: Honda) parts, you will void the warranty". As stated above, that is not true, as long as it meets specs for what you are working on - oils, spark plugs, etc. If you meet those specs, and install them correctly, then there should be no questions. Oh, and make sure you keep ALL receipts. Helps with warranty as well as reselling (if you make the mistake of (:shock:) actually selling your E)...... :-(:rolleyes:

We Love the Warranty game :)

I just bought an '07 EX from a dealer here in Michigan which is still under the original warranty, certified pre-owned thing. It has 20,000 miles on it now. I want to keep the warranty intact. Can I take it to any Honda dealer? The dealership where I bought it is not a Honda dealership (Toyota), and it is pretty far from my house. I would prefer to drive it down the road to a closer Honda dealership. Is that do-able? TIA,

Briggsie

You should be able to take it to any mechanic you want wherever whenever. Just keep service receipts for tracability.

Welcome to the zoo btw.

Thanks for the welcome. I just got the car a week ago, and so far am totally loving it.

Briggsie

All right sorry about posting another one of these, but I know it says you don't have to take it to a honda dealer to have maintenance done to it. So I was wondering if I changed the oil and stuff would that keep my warranty and if so what should I keep or w/e?

Just note the date and mileage you changed the oil in your maintenance book, and keep the purchase receipts for the oil and filter. Same with other fluid changes, if any.

Alright cool just wanted to make sure. Thanks

Hopefully someone will look at this again, but I have a question about getting honda to fix something. Alright so I have the warranty and all, but I bought this car from a dealer a good ways away. Well I was talking to a dealer near me and told them I might be having a short in the ac controls. Well they told me I have to take it back to the dealer I got it from for the first 30 days, but after that I can go anywhere. Well then they said I couldn't go to them after the 30 days for the problem, because they already know about it since I told them.

Well this all just sounds really weird, is it true?

no, the only way this would apply is if it was a dealer warranty, which some dealers do. i.e. bumper to bumper for 30 days

blah blah.

However, if the vehicle's still under the 3/36 or you have a Honda Care - than you can take it to any dealership in the 50 States.

Yeah I don't have any of those just the Honda warranty, so guess I'm good to go anywhere? So what exactly would I tell the dealer then since they gave me some crap like that?

Yeah I don't have any of those just the Honda warranty, so guess I'm good to go anywhere? So what exactly would I tell the dealer then since they gave me some crap like that?

What the service writer or mechanic told you is totally bogus :confused:

1st - Ask to speak to the Service Manager.

If you get the same run-around.

2nd - Place a call to Honda USA and let them know that this Honda Dealer is refusing to honor the Honda Factory Warranty.

Alright thanks, will do.

I'm trying to determine if installing the recommended heater block myself would void the manufaturers warranty in any way. Any thoughts or actualy proof of what does and does not void a Honda warranty? My car only has 2k miles on it so I'd rather not blow the warranty already :)

Normally, any owner add-on parts will not void the warranty, unless the part causes damage, and then only that damage will not be covered - the rest of the warranty would still stand.

Only time I've seen entire vehicle warranties being voided, was for heavily modified vehicles that were essentially race cars, being abused weekly on the track.

So if you install the heater wrong, and the coolent all leaks out and your block cracks - that would not be covered. But simply the addition of a block heater, working properly - no problem, no matter who installed it.

is there realy a certified warranty? my dealer(gary smith honda,fort walton beach FL) seemes to be a scam artist. every thing checked on checklist,but so far every thing I have checked hasent ben done,cabin filters dirty&hairy, raidator dry in the mornings(stilfighting over this one,they dont know how thr recovery system works)+ stop leak in raidator,stopleak?antifreeze trail on hood,told me that was belt dressing!! Out of aliginment when hitting a manhole cover or other bumps on the right side the rear end of the car kicks out,dosent do it on the left of the car.(I had same problem with montaro,aliginment fixed it)yes it was like this when I bought it(honda) each time it goes back it's a song and dance,lied to by service wrighter, said they put it on rack& checked alimnent.two months lator(today) was told it was never on rack,never checked.service manager told me it was fine he could tell it didn't need it.but would charge me just to check it.evean tho it was like that when I bought the E.tires arn"t wearing even he says they are,chips & crack in windsheild when I got it,says there is two keys to car but I had to wait 2 weeks to get another one made,kinda funny that the stereo was stolen after 3 days of owning it & only given 1 key ,the pass side door was missing all the screws in the botom latch when we bought it.I took them almost a month to fix that + they scratched the door about 1 foot& has ben back 2 times to be ajusted& still ckunks on small bumps& is rubing paint to paint.plus at least 3 more chips in the paint on the door so are these certified hondas a scam or what??? I was told that tech has been with american honda for over 20 years so he is the best that you can get!!! well I have worked at a few new vehicle dealerships,I have certifacates on the wall, I have seen many techs that I would not trust to wash the car. what a mess. mr purdy the service manager dosent have a clue& dosent care because he gets to do something with the acura's next door & these hondas are beneth him. well a honda is a honda,just like a gmc is a chevy,apontaic is a buick,a dodge is a plymouth is a desoto is a chrysler. suzuki sport quads are the same as kawasiki(mfd by suszuki)