Game is changing as Honda hits slump (http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/honda30e_20050330.htm)

by Sarah A. Webster, Free Press Business Writer

I, for one, hope that the Element sales stay flat - enough to keep the line alive, but not enough to make it start getting really popular. I wouldn't mind being able to walk in whenever I wanted, and trade up with 1.9% financing.

A couple of interesting tidbits from that article.

"The quality difference between all-new vehicles today is minimal -- so small that they are measured in fractions."

Good point... for 2-3 years. After that American cars still tank in the quality department. If you lease your cars... I can't really say that leasing American is a bad idea, because you'll be rid of it before there are too many issues.

"Honda dealers aren't used to having to push a vehicle," said Alan Baum, director of forecasting at the Planning Edge in Birmingham. "They're used to a vehicle selling itself."

Another great point. Where I bought my 'E' the salesperson was a great guy, but I knew more about the E than he did. A lot of people aren't as educated about it when they show up at a dealer, and had I not known a lot about the 'E' and it's great interior features (thanks to sites like this) I might not have glanced twice at it.

i guess some people are heavily influenced by what kind of deal they get or what the salesman can tell them about a car or whatever...me ...i know what car i want before i even go to a car lot...so i'm gonna buy it no matter what...i even know what accessories i want on it before i go....i mean...you can go to www.honda.com and build your car and a dealer can have it there waiting for you to go pick up...i mean a good deal is not going to sway what i want to buy...i'd rather pay a little more and have what i want than to settle for something i don't want...i don't know ...just seems kinda wierd to me...i guess some people might not be as picky about what car they want so they just go with the best deal they can get...anyway..i'll be getting good deals from now on because i work at honda...i'll just get my cars straight from the factory...we get them at cost....too bad i bought my element before i started working there :lol:...at least this way i won't have to deal with salesmen....anyway...when i bought my e i called about 10 different honda dealers and told them what i wanted and asked for a price....the prices i was given varied 2 or 3 thousand dollars...crazy huh...i went with the cheapest...it turns out that they were all bidding on the exact same car because it was the only 5speed in the state at the time...i would suggest doing this so you can find the best deal....sure beats driving around the state...oh and by the way...the dealer closest to me gave the highest price...so that would have sucked to buy it there..i ended up going 2 hours away to get it..but to save 2 thousand dollars i guess it was worth it

I always find it interesting when the sales numbers are brought up.
Particularly when the "low" sales numbers on the E are mentioned.

I would never have bought a Honda if they did not have the Element.
The CRV is just too momish and boring, the Pilot too expensive, the Odessey, well, it's a minivan (and pricey).
I like the Ridgeline, but again, when you compare it to what's available, particularly from Nissan (Titan), for less money, there's no way.

I think the author hit the nail on the head commenting on the bland styling.
The Civic and the Accord are the bread and butter for Honda.
They've gotten boring. There's just not as much benefit to buy a boring new car when you can get one used, just as boring, for half price.
Their reliability working against 'em. :roll:

I suspect we'll see a dramatic change once the new models are released.

I say honda hitting the slump is good news.

>"Honda dealers aren't used to having to push a vehicle,"

Which - to me - is one of the reasons the E isn't doing as well as it should. It's a great concept... possibly misunderstood, but a great concept nonetheless.

We have one large-ish local dealer who at best keeps only 2 or 3 E's on the lot. When we were shopping, we hit them twice, only to be lied to each time about E features and option availability (and intended to discourage us). IOW, this dealer hates the E, and makes no bones about poorly supporting it.

So their E sales become a self-fulfilling proposition. If you figure the number of other dealers like that in non- or semi-metro markets who are making no effort to understand much less sell the vehicle, then it starts to explain a lot.

I agree completly with both wmk7479 and MikeQBF. (Quoteing them seemed silly).
The only other thing I would add is that the Ridgeline commercials seem to continue the trend. "AFTER ALL, IT'S A HONDA" Maybe it's "ABOVE ALL, IT'S A HONDA". Just seems like a lazy way to go.

The new E ad showing the two guys road tripping with the E is great... finally taking a cue from Nissan's Xterra

Sure, Honda sales declined, but at least
1. they are not selling Accords to Avis to boost sales.
2. they are not yet trapped in a cash back war.
3. they are not selling all their cars to employees and their families.
4. they showed the next Gen Civic concept, which looks really cool, and I'm sure a lot of young people want to wait till next year to get.
5. they don't have workers drinking beer during lunch break. (read this article: http://forums.autoweek.com/thread.jspa?forumID=9&threadID=15025&messageID=315442 It's funny and sad at the same time.)

Sure, Honda sales declined, but at least
1. they are not selling Accords to Avis to boost sales.
2. they are not yet trapped in a cash back war.
3. they are not selling all their cars to employees and their families.
4. they showed the next Gen Civic concept, which looks really cool, and I'm sure a lot of young people want to wait till next year to get.
5. they don't have workers drinking beer during lunch break. (read this article: http://forums.autoweek.com/thread.jspa?forumID=9&threadID=15025&messageID=315442 It's funny and sad at the same time.)
I completely agree with all but one of your points.
3. they are not selling all their cars to employees and their families.
I assume you are referring to every other manufacturer who offers the same vehicle below invoice to an employee (usually know as the "A" plan).
Honda has this as well. It is just not as well know about.
It is more of a benie like extra health insurance or free gym memberships.

I dunno. I was at the Honda dealer last week and I thought the bright red little Civic was just adorable. If I didn't have the cargo needs that I do, I'd drive one of those pups and not feel behind the times at all. So the reviewer thinks it's stale. Just one opinion in the pot.

...I thought the bright red little Civic was just adorable. If I didn't have the cargo needs that I do, I'd drive one of those pups and not feel behind the times at all. So the reviewer thinks it's stale. Just one opinion in the pot.

So what's your explanation for why they are not selling?
I have never owned a sedan but if I were in the market for one the Civic and Accord would not top my list. They are great cars in terms of fit, finish and reliablity but there are lots of competitors out there that are a little jazzier. This is expecially true in the sub-compact market where there are a number of Civic competitors that have more power and a more interesting shape. As they say, sex sells!

Look at the April Honda sales results. The Civics are selling, the hybrids are selling.....wonder where this reviewer got her data.

I skimmed the article, and the message I saw was that Honda's passenger cars are down in greater proportion than the market overall, but that Honda seemed to be close to most other auto-makers overall. The loss of market share they are experiencing was due to the 20% drop in passenger cars, which is due to more & more competition.

The market overall is down. Of course it is. You can only saturate the market so far. You can only have so much growth before things drop off.

The corporate world's answer to this situation is usualy not as much innovation and better products, as it is mergers and aquisitions. With the weak dollar. Perhaps we'll see another american brand aquired by a foreign company.