My bottle of Sawyer insect repellant with DEET leaked into my backpack, and proceeded to eat into the vinyl liner, and started dissolving the plastic case of a camcorder battery! Unbelievable! It takes acetone or MEK to dissolve plastic like that. I wrote to Sawyer and they swear the product is safe to put on your skin. Be careful where you store this stuff inside your E. It turns plastic into goo. It doesn't help that the directions on the back are virtually unreadable. There is a tiny, tiny warning way at the bottom that it will attack certain synthetic materials. I don't know if this is a problem with DEET or some other ingredient.

My bottle of Sawyer insect repellant with DEET leaked into my backpack, and proceeded to eat into the vinyl liner, and started dissolving the plastic case of a camcorder battery! Unbelievable! It takes acetone or MEK to dissolve plastic like that. I wrote to Sawyer and they swear the product is safe to put on your skin. Be careful where you store this stuff inside your E. It turns plastic into goo. It doesn't help that the directions on the back are virtually unreadable. There is a tiny, tiny warning way at the bottom that it will attack certain synthetic materials. I don't know if this is a problem with DEET or some other ingredient.
as far as i know, DEET was invented for the US Army back in Korea/Vietnam (correct me if i'm off on this). back then they didn't have any or much of this synthetic material in their personal gear, so maybe it was not an issue. when i worked at REI, i was told DEET can discolor/dissolve nylons/vinyls and prolonged exposure to higher concentrations of DEET products may pose health risks. it's amazing the bottles/tubes this stuff comes in don't dissolve. must be a different formulation of plastic than our E panels and seats

will

The fact that DEET harms certain plastics is a well know fact in the backpacking world. Rayon and acetate [correction] (as in watches) are strongly affected; nylon itself isn't harmed, but waterproof coatings can be solftened. I'm not sure about the polypropylene that many of the Element's parts are made from. I suppose I could test a few drops on scap pieces.

The 100% stuff is most likely to cause problems. That strength really isn't needed. 33% or less is plenty strong, especially when in a time release form (Sawyer and 3m). I am also in the habit of keeping my DEET containers in plastic ziploc type bags, as extra protection against leakage. It doesn't attack that kind of plastic. Obviously it doesn't attack the plastic of the bottles or tubes.

The question of its toxicity gets a lot of discussion on backpacking forums. If used sparingly and according to directions it shouldn't be a problem. Alcohol diluted versions intended for children have been removed from the shelves, since that carrier may actually increase absorbtion through the skin.

http://www.sawyerproducts.com/sawyer_products/pages/research/index.htm

epa's data sheet:
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/0002fact.pdf


paulj

In this case, it was the 20% DEET that did the damage.

I put some 16% Deet (REI's Jungle Juice Plus) on the backside of dash panel (the radio opening cover for a DX). I don't see any impact after hour.

According to this table of plastic recycling codes
http://www.americanplasticscouncil.org/s_apc/sec.asp?TRACKID=&CID=313&DID=931
"Polypropylene (PP). Polypropylene has good chemical resistance, is strong, and has a high melting point making it good for hot-fill liquids. PP is found in flexible and rigid packaging to fibers and large molded parts for automotive and consumer products."

I suspect your battery case is made from polystyrene. If you recall making plastic models, the glue for polystyrene is actually a solvent that dissolves a bit of the plastic.

A dab of my DEET on some clear vinyl produced a slight hazing after a few minutes.

The packaging for my DEET sample is High Density Polyethylene (HDPE), #2 recycling symbol.

So while DEET does harm some plastics, it does not bother others.

paulj

Last summer I was camping in the E for the first time and just put on some bug repellent with DEET. Apparently I had some on my hand when I went to get something out of the passenger side and now I have a perfect hand print in the door handle and trim. Fingerprints and all.

I learned my lesson and won't do that again.

The Stanley parts organizer that fits so nicely under the Element's rear seats is vulnerable to DEET. I left a leaky spray bottle of the stuff inside, and the just the fumes clouded, crazed, and weakened the clear plastic top enough to cause two of the hinges to break. Interestingly, the chemical had no adverse affect on the bottom of the organizer or the yellow bin the bottle sat in.

The Stanley parts organizer that fits so nicely under the Element's rear seats is vulnerable to DEET. I left a leaky spray bottle of the stuff inside, and the just the fumes clouded, crazed, and weakened the clear plastic top enough to cause two of the hinges to break. Interestingly, the chemical had no adverse affect on the bottom of the organizer or the yellow bin the bottle sat in.

what organizer are you using? how good is the fit?

-tom :)

I left a leaky spray bottle of the stuff inside, and the just the fumes clouded, crazed, and weakened the clear plastic top enough to cause two of the hinges to break..

The clear plastic might be acetate, one of the vulnerable plastics. The base of the case could well be PP. It may be wise to treat any clear plastic as vulnerable (I don't know about Lexan, though).

Was it the outside door handle that took the fingerprints? Quite likely it is a different kind of plastic than the fender panels and most of interior trim. I'd be careful with the inside armrest as well. It has more give than PP interior, so may be a different plastic.

I usually try to wipe off the palms of my hands after applying replellant just to play it safe. At the very least I want to be careful when handling my glasses.

paulj

what organizer are you using? how good is the fit?

http://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/e/eoc/014708r.gif

I have seen them at Lowe's and Home Depot. The fit is excellent.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/conditions/04/28/west.nile.ap/index.html

CDC pushes new mosquito repellents
Thursday, April 28, 2005 Posted: 10:55 AM EDT (1455 GMT)


FACT BOX
Bug bites: Federal officials are recommending two new options other than the chemical DEET to combat mosquitoes.
Tried, true: Officials say picaridin or the oil of lemon eucalyptus are safe and effective against the critters that spread West Nile virus and malaria.
Sweet smell: The new options are considered more pleasant to the skin and don't have the odor of DEET. Maybe now, officials say, more people will use insect repellent.

It would be nice to see an effective non-DEET repellant. I have always been concerned about what that stuff does to you given it melts plastic and makes your skin hard with repeated use (if you don't wash it off). I'm sceptical at this point, however.

I have tried various citronella, T-tree oil and other preparations over the years and they are just not as effective as DEET based formulas in really buggy areas (northern B.C., the Yukon, Alaska, the NWT, Central America, South East Asia and Australia to name a few).

These alternative repellants do work in masking your odor (either natural or from shampoos, deodorants etc) which is how insects find you but after the bugs home in on you I have found that the non-Deet repellants are less effective in deterring them from biting you!

Lets see some real world testing. Anybody want to be a guinea pig?

I cant not tell you how happy I am to live in a place where we dont have the need for bug repellant. :grin:

I cant not tell you how happy I am to live in a place where we dont have the need for bug repellant. :grin:

I live where there are very few bugs but like to travel to places where there are lots!

Don't you go anywhere -given you are in the most expensive place in the world? :)

Now this is something I hadn't considered. DEET and I are frequent companions. I live in South Florida and spend as much time as possible in the keys, glades & backcountry fishing & kayaking. We are known to encounter the occasional mosquito. :D Maybe I should take a test drive with my repellent on!! :twisted: