SO MAD. OK got lots of goodies this week: Side Steps, Floor Mats, Rear Bumper Trim, K&N Intake, Flip Down DVD, Fog lights.

So I was all excited to go outside tonight and do something small: lets start with the floor mats. Things going well, then I realize I need to cut out the middle section for the subwoofer. No problem, about done...SLICE, right into my thumb ALMOST needed stitches...butterfly held fine. So I decide to finish before dinner is ready.

All done and going inside, hey that looks weird, looks like the front Thule load bar is bent???????? Nah cant be, only had it a month or so and the Xpedition tray only about 3 weeks, and only loaded 1 thing on it.

Sure enough BENT to hell!!!!!!!! :-x My only guess is that the fairing may have caused it of all things??? I am thinking the fairing sent the wind upwards to the bottom of the front lip of the tray....thus forcing recistance from the bottom side which in turn forced pressure back down on the bar.

Besides that, I have not loaded ANYTHING that could have done this. In fact here is a picture taken a few days AFTER the only load of the rack, and it is fine (if you look close enough).

Then the pictures from tonight. And what sucks is I have moved and have no idea where any of my paperwork is. So now I have to go by new load bars...........urg!!!!!!!!!!!

:-o

I can't believe that a fairing redirecting the airflow could cause that kind of damage. Those bars are designed to take several hundred pounds of weight and to bend them like that would take a HECK of a lot of force (I have stood on my Yakima bars with no visible effect).

Are you sure it wasn't vandalism of some kind?

That is unexpected. I thought the Thule cross bars were too stiff to bend like that just under wind pressure on the fairing. However the closest that I've come to using Thule bars is the Toyota rack for the RAV4, which has the same cross section as Thule.

You might want to check where the feet of the fairing touch (or come close to) the roof. They may be rubbing.

If you remove the basket, does the bar straighten at all?

You might not need the fairing when the basket is in place. Wind noise seems to be worse across bare bars. The front edge of the basket also acts as a fairing, exherting a downward force on the basket.

Another thing that I'd check is the wall thickness of the bars. This may be far fetched, but maybe you got cheap imitation Thule bars.

I agree that a load shouldn't have caused the bend. The rear bar isn't bent, and I don't see sign of bending in the basket's floor beams (which are aluminium channel). The only other thing I can think of is a concentrated load on the front of the basket, say be a closing garage door. But then I'd expect to see damage to the basket as well.

paulj

vandalism? As in, some climbing up and sitting in the basket?

I was thinking more of jumping up and down on the basket or putting a really heavy load on it.

No kidding this is totally perplexing because the tray is not bent. The air pressure was the only thing I could think of, even though it makes little sense.

I was thinking it could be a garage door. However since I have moved (that picture of the E backed up to the garage) I have not been in a garage.

EXCEPT my wife took the E to the Honda Dealer YESTERDAY for the oil change...I even mentioned maybe they did it, but hell, how do you prove it????? :? And even if it was that the tray frame is obviously uneffected........UNLESS the tray rebounded off of some forced blow and the bars did not. If thats the case AWESOME tray, BAD load bars.

Oh, and I was just too lazy to remove the fairing when I put the tray up.

So confused. Oh well will trot over to the Sports Authority as I see they carry the bars online, hopefully they have them at my local store.

I will get that fixed up and try to get to movre of my fun stuff. Just hate spending money on something that broke when I have no idea why. I just hope the fairing is not too messed up to use...I think it will be OK though

Oh and to try and at least poke fun at this Sherlock Holmes situation, I told my wife maybe Neo jumped down out of the matrix and hit the load bar :roll:

She just closed her eyes and went back to sleep :)

I would have hit you, closed my eyes and went back to sleep

The dealer connection might not be all that far fetched. I can imagine the oil change tech putting the Element on the lift, and then raising it up until the basket came into contact with some ceiling structure. The contact wouldn't have had to be violent or noisy, just steady pressure for a while. The tech might even have realized he hit something and lower the car a bit.

Obviously there is the question of why no visible distortion in the aluminum basket. Maybe it is stiffer or more resilient than we realize. The bars are probably painted carbon steel, relatively ductile without a lot rebound.

Then there is the question of how to prove it, or to at least get the service manager to seriously listen. The before and after photos are a start. Closeup pictures of the top rails of the basket might help. The shop must have insurance to cover mishaps, though the damages in this case are probably small enough that they wouldn't bother with their insurance.

It would be wise to check the rack mounting points (on the Element roof) for distortion. The Thule feet might have pivoted enough to absorb any strains. But if a more careful examination of the basket does suggest that it was pressed against something, I'd want to see the dealer before dissassembling anything. If just the bar needs replacing it may not be worth your time to get the dealer to listen, but if the Element's roof needs repair, you want them to foot the bill.

paulj

I would have hit you, closed my eyes and went back to sleep

ooops, my bad, it was Morpheus!

The dealer connection might not be all that far fetched....

It would be wise to check the rack mounting points (on the Element roof) for distortion. The Thule feet might have pivoted enough to absorb any strains. But if a more careful examination of the basket does suggest that it was pressed against something, I'd want to see the dealer before dissassembling anything. If just the bar needs replacing it may not be worth your time to get the dealer to listen, but if the Element's roof needs repair, you want them to foot the bill.
Yea I just took the feet off...everything is still connected, I looked at the roof more and the trackers and everything does seem fine...everything seems to be aligned with the back trackers when standing from the front. I do think the feet withstood the blow and did not damage anything further.

Needless to say, next time the E goes in for oil....the tray is likely coming off just to be safe.

Now I have to decide if I want 58" bars again or just 50".

My #1 suspect would be the servicer and the lift. I used to have a lot of antennas on my vehicles, and - believe me - service providers of all descriptions do not look for or think of non-standard objects on the roof. Even when you tell them. Even seconds after you tell them.

There was one instance where I was forced to use valet parking, something I never do. I told the attendant in no uncertain terms that he was absolutely not to drive into the parking structure. The second he closed the door he started moving straight towards the 6' deck entry, and I had to sprint like crazy and jump in front of my own car to save $1000 worth of antennas and what would have been $3000 of roof damage. F****** moron didn't hear a word I said. :x

I don't think there is any question that the dealer is responsible. You need to find a way to prove it and then get them to pay for your new bars.
If they deny it have them put it on the lift and see if there is any contact.

i'm in shock.
i have these bars on our E and we use it for a painting company car (production, ladders etc etc).
I know that these bars take a pounding not only b/c of the wieght of ladders that i've put on it before (little to no bending at all) but just the other day i was fighting with my ratchet strap and ended up doing a 'dip' while holding onto the bars to get myself onto the bars so that i could get the strap off... so that means i had the weight of two ladders PLUS myself on the rack (i only weight like 185lbs) and i noticed no bending.
Something is not right with your situation, i hope that you can get this sorted out asap!

good luck

Yea I am pretty covinced it must of been the dealer. However, I just dont feel like going through the hassle of trying to prove it...not for a set of 4050 load bars...my time is worth more than that :)

Now if the roof or even the tray was messed up thats a different story.

Thanks goodness for pictures cause I know it would have been hard for anyone to believe me.

I don't think there is any question that the dealer is responsible. You need to find a way to prove it and then get them to pay for your new bars.
If they deny it have them put it on the lift and see if there is any contact.

There's the trick....get to the dealer and ask them to see the bay that was used to change your oil....depenting on the material of the ceiling, you will see a problem....possibly need them to put it on the lift again to check.

I know, I know...I am just lazy.

In any case, this morning I went and checked....I did find proof on the tray (pics below). Then a picture of the bent bar turned up so you can see the arc. I am even more utterly AMAZED that the tray is still NOT bent. 100% happy with the tray right now!

Oh and to make myself feel better, a pic of my side steps installed :) Tomorrow...fixing the roof rack and putting in my K&N intake.

Oh and I drove about 45 minutes to a bike store to get new 58" load bars. But the more I am thinking about it, the more I think I might cut them down to maybe 54" or even down to 50". Not sure yet.

Oh and some irony...the sports store I went to was called "Element Sports." Go figure :)

I think AKA is right. you need to take it to the dealer and make them pay or at least scarwe the hell out of them.
i installed my stock rack and the stood on top of them to see if it would hold and they did.
the tule rack is supposed to be strionger so something with extreme pressure must have done the damage.

Should of bought a Saris Rack ! :lol:

Most Honda dealerships I've been to use the hydraulic lifts that look like an upside down "U" with the swing away 4 points. You drive the car in, swing the 4 arms under the Element at the right lift points, and press the button and up the E goes.

I have pictures of my E on that same lift and there isn't that much clearance on the topside when fully up. If the service man didn't pay attention, he would send it right up to that horizontal cross bar. The hydraulic pressure would slowly bend the rack and setup at its weakest point (crossbars).

What really leads me to believe that they did it though is the fact that those scratches you have in your pictures are blue. All of the lifts I have seen in the dealerships around here are powdercoated blue, with yellow arms. The scratch is just about the width of the crossbar and in the right location when on the vehicle. I would check the lift bay for damage to that powdercoat, and bring my receipt and those pictures with me.

Good luck.

Should of bought a Saris Rack ! :lol:

A Saris rack would have bent just as easily im afraid

Thanks Snarff. I think I might linger up to Leesburg Honda this week and show them everything.

If it is indeed the fault of the dealership...you should ask why they had to lift it so high...do the have Yao Ming as a mechanic over there?

The cracking sound of the roof garnish would have warned the service tech of a problem before the Saris bars got bent :)

then when he opened the door, the plastic trim would of hit him in the head....I believe it was the dealership that caused the problem. Not Wind. I drive in the Oklahoma Wind (20-40 mph daily)all the time with our roof rack, Never seems to bend the bars on either of our cars.

With all the proof I am pretty sure it was from the oil change. I just have to decide if I want to deal with it at this point.

Case in point, all fixed (with 50" bars instead of 58" I think it looks better):

Where is the bike and all the gear for your roof rack ? Fill that thing up...it looks boring up there :roll:

Where is the bike and all the gear for your roof rack ? Fill that thing up...it looks boring up there :roll:

Lol, if I was going anywhere I would :)

Actually I decided to take the tray down for a bit as I dont need it right now

I mentioned this example of a bent bar to a salesman at REI. He'd heard of other cases where garage doors and such bent Yakima and Thule bars, and reasoned that is better that the bar bend than that roof mount be damaged. The feet do allow allow the bars to flex without transmitting the forces to the roof.

paulj

I mentioned this example of a bent bar to a salesman at REI. He'd heard of other cases where garage doors and such bent Yakima and Thule bars, and reasoned that is better that the bar bend than that roof mount be damaged. The feet do allow allow the bars to flex without transmitting the forces to the roof.

paulj

Yup, THANK God on that one!

It only cost me $50, and it was a free oil change (dealer only makes us pay every other trip since its the 10K per trip where other work gets done), so I am not too mad. So it is free when all they do is the oil.

Not to mention it allowed me the chance to buy my bars at ELEMENT SPORTS in Winchester. I enjoyed the irony :)

Well this is GREAT news! I used the Honda Owners site to find the email for the service manager. I emailed him the complaint (kept it cordial) supplied the pictures I posted here. I think the Blue scuff mark was the proof that proved it was them. Here is the response:

"We apologize, we don't have any clearance problems with the OEM racks or carriers from Honda, but it sure looks like we did with your Thule. Please send me the receipt for the bars so may reimburse you. We have made a note in our data base so when ever a repair order is written on your Element a warning will show us about your roof rack and we will pay very close attention to the clearance and our lifts. Again please accept our sincere apologies. I will await, receiving your receipt for the bars we damaged so we may reimburse you for the expense."

Props goes out to Terry Gibson, Service Manager at Leesburg Honda!

I emailed him back and thanked him again and mentioned I was not too mad, just that I wanted to make sure it doesnt happen to anyone else. I mentioned I got the Thule simply for its ease of removal. This was his response back:

"I understand about the racks, on my CRV I have the OEM,on my Toyota truck I have a "Yak". Again please at your convenience mail or drop by the receipt, we surly don't ever want our customer to pay for our mistakes. The goods new, we do learn by them.
Terry Gibson"

Looks like they just got a lifelong customer!

And yet another follow up:

"At your convenience mail, bring by, or fax the receipt. We would never knowingly damage a customer's vehicle but, if it does happen we don't want our customers to ever pay for our mistakes. The technician that worked on your vehicle feels real bad about the accident and asked me to apologize again for him.

P.S. My CRV has the factory rack but, my Toyota truck has a "Yak" rack on it (used for kayak's) so please don't feel like you have to use OEM, use what works."

I enourage anyone in NOVA to use them as they seem very into good customer service. Not to mention for anyone to use the Honda Owners website to easily contact your service department...this was a breeze!

:)
Glad to hear that this is turning out to be a good news story.
Kudos to your dealer!

I agree w/ PaulJ about the dealer connection....the design of the bars are almost impossible to bend. I concur that the damage was done while the car was on the llift. There has to be some form of damage to the base/lock connectors.

Wow...excellent dealer! Actually accepting responsibility...what a concept!

There has to be some form of damage to the base/lock connectors.

I checked that over and over...everything seems OK. Firm, tight, secure. I took the feet off when I was replacing the bar and they seem just fine as well. Go figure! :-o

Well this is GREAT news! I used the Honda Owners site to find the email for the service manager. I emailed him the complaint (kept it cordial) supplied the pictures I posted here. I think the Blue scuff mark was the proof that proved it was them. Here is the response:

"We apologize, we don't have any clearance problems with the OEM racks or carriers from Honda, but it sure looks like we did with your Thule. Please send me the receipt for the bars so may reimburse you. We have made a note in our data base so when ever a repair order is written on your Element a warning will show us about your roof rack and we will pay very close attention to the clearance and our lifts. Again please accept our sincere apologies. I will await, receiving your receipt for the bars we damaged so we may reimburse you for the expense."

Props goes out to Terry Gibson, Service Manager at Leesburg Honda!

WOOHOO! I was right! BAM Take it up a notch! Another mystery solved by Snarflock holmes.

WOOHOO! I was right! BAM Take it up a notch! Another mystery solved by Snarflock holmes.

hmmmmm....

glad it worked out well for ya.
good things happen to good people

So you gonna tell the wife about those extra 50 bucks in the ole wallet? Or are ya buying beer for the sleuths?

So you gonna tell the wife about those extra 50 bucks in the ole wallet? Or are ya buying beer for the sleuths?

Nah she controls the checkbook...even though I bring home the dough.

Hmmm, wonder how that happened :?

Nah she controls the checkbook...even though I bring home the dough.

Hmmm, wonder how that happened :?


That is some scary Chit. How is it that the same thing happened to all of my friends after they got married. Suddenly, their wives are out shopping for new curtains and they need to send in a written request for money to eat lunch at work.

Seriously, one of my best friends, we'll call him John, got put on "pack your lunch to save money" duty. Poor guy ate a bag full of tangerines for lunch over 2 days as he is no chef. I asked him WTF and he got all upset b/c he couldn't tell me for the life of him, how the arangement came to be. But boy do they have some nice curtains in their house!

Oh well, Snarflock Holmes is on the case.

Luckily I control the mullah and I am a chef. Just in case stuff gets reversed I won't go hungry.

Glad to hear everything worked out...
The crossbars are indeed the "weak" point in a system like yours, even though I've stood on mine(250+lbs) just to see what would happen...nothing.

For future reference, most rack places will sell you just one crossbar...$25 instead of $50 and an extra bar.

that does sound like a great dealer! I wish mine had been that good, would have made the whole process much easier when having some issues looked into...oh well, live and learn.

I gotta post some pics of my new three bar setup on my truck.........

jesse

I gotta post some pics of my new three bar setup on my truck.........


Only 3? Years ago I put 4 on my S10 pickup :) 2 on the extended cab (using Yakima's bolt on 'rain gutter' brackets), and 2 on 'camper top' cap. I attached a Yakima Basketcase to the front set, and kayak mounts on rear set (with a nice 4' spacing).

paulj