Since day one, (two weeks ago) I have had a little "clicking" noise coming from way back and it has gotten worse over time. First I thought it was coming from the tailgate suspension cable (the end that attaches to the body structure can rotate and rattle freely), so I taped those in place to see if that is where it is coming from but turned out not to be the case.

Does anyone else have this problem? If so, where was the problem?

Thanks,

Jackson

Check the rear seatbelts... mine sometimes knock against the walls.

Drew

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think that is it.

The " clicking" is more like metal on metal. Sometimes, I'd hear three or four clicks in short succession. Other times, only a click now and then.

Jackson

Hmm... well, if not the belts, maybe the back seats are loose? Might also try lifting up that cover and checking the spare... maybe something is rattling around in the spare area, like a loose wrench or something? Maybe the spare itself is loose?

Drew

Thanks, I will report back once I have it figured out.

For things like this, I always try to figure it out myself instead of letting the dealer's "mechanics" try wild and crazy thing and end up messing it up even worse.

Jackson

i've got that same rattle,it's driving me crazy! I had my wife drive while i tried to locate it . 30 minutes later ,as far as i can tell it,s up near the top of the rear hatch almost like the roof. can't quite isolate it. but it sounds like the same noise you describe. i'll get back to you when i find it,And I
Will!!

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 2:14 pm Post subject: rattle

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i've got that same rattle,it's driving me crazy! I had my wife drive while i tried to locate it . 30 minutes later ,as far as i can tell it,s up near the top of the rear hatch almost like the roof. can't quite isolate it. but it sounds like the same noise you describe. i'll get back to you when i find it,And I
Will!!


That would most likely be the hinges or lifts for the hatch. I will have a closer look to see.

Jlo and others,

I had the exact same problem which started about 2 weeks after I got the car. I tried to diagnose it myself for weeks and nothing seems to eliminate the noise. Finally I took it to Autowest Honda in Fremont, CA.

After 3 visits on the same problem, here's their conclusion (written on the worksheet. I'm copying here word for word):

"Customer states clunking noise heard from rear suspension when driving at slow speeds making 90 degree turns, advice...
Verified creeking noise when on road test with customer. Using chassis ear noise can be heard from the rear hatch area, not from rear suspension. Cannot duplicate noise by tapping on pannels. Adjusted all three strikers, noise still present. Inspected interior structure, handle assembly and wiper arm assembly on rear hatch. Adjusted rubber bumper stops. Removed third brake light assembly, noise still present. Loosened and tightened hinge points. Separated spot welds at metal contact points. Roadtested vehicle with factory rep, noise is a normal characteristic of element due [to] lack of "B" pillar. Noise is a body flex noise."


As you can see, this is full of #$@!*. Now the noise has gotten much worse. It makes the same noise even with very, very slight turns or going through very small bumps.

The America Honda rep name is:
Kim Tower
(800)-999-1009.

I'm taking the car back to where I bought it and see if they can deal with America Honda directly for me since I don't have time to talk non-sense with this dealership or America Honda.

Just an FYI. One of my coworkers had a 5-series BMW. It had very similar problem that never went away. The BMW dealership tried to fix it for 5-6 times and finally gave up. They gave him a brand new car a year later. So don't let these car manufacturers give you the "normal characteristic of the element" bull****.

SanJose, what you'd experienced is exactly the reason I like to find and fix little rattles myself. When you give a problem like this to the dealer, who do you think they will put on the job. Their most highly paid mechanic or some apprentice that is getting $10 and hour. They end up tearing your car apart, breaking retaining clips, warping plastic panel, and generally, your car is worse shape then before even if they end up finding and fixing the original problem. In the electronics industry, we call this the shotgun approach.

But I do have good news to report. I think I am onto something. I have not found a fix yet, but the problem is associated with the hatch gas pressurized lifters. I removed them and the NOISE is GONE. I have regained my sanity. :D

You can try this out quite easily. Use a flat blade screw driver and pry the metal clip up while pulling the lifter away from the ball joint. I am sure there is a special tool to do this, but this works very well. Make sure you have someone there to support the hatch while you do this because as soon as you seperate the lifter from the ball joint, the hatch will fall on your head.

I believe if a dealer told me that such a noise was characteristic of the vehcile due to it's design, I'd be inclined to park the vehcile on his foot and explain it was a natural characteristic of a very aggreived customer.

Let's face it, one of the reasons Honda claimed they expected 5-star crash test ratings is because this has a rigid body structure and the rigidity lost due to the absence of the B-pillar is supposed, according to Honda's own design and marketing, to be taken up by considerable extra bracing.

Nor would a rattle that is caused by structural flexing (whether intentional or not) get worse over time unless the vehcile was flexing more - which would be a rather curious safety issue that one would imagine Honda would want to deal with before the law suits start arriving.

My own experience with a rattle in the back was exactly as DREW had posted, that after use the buckle had lodged between the side wall and the seat rather than retract to the correct position behind the seat. But all in all, since not every E rattles at the rear, it's not a design 'feature' and if it were, one would expect Element sales to drop to roughly 0 since I doubt there are many who would be prepared to buy a new car that was known to have incurable rattles.

Thanks for the tip on the hatch lifter. So are you driving it with the hatch attached or not :o ? or did you only take the hydrolic lifter out and leave the hatch in?

in any case, my case is beyond my dealership. the dealership asked me to take it to america honda directly. i called this number (in your owner manual):

1-800-999-1009 (select option#4)

and opened a case. america honda said they will get back to me in 3-5 working days with an answer/recommendation. i hope they're not using these 3-5 working days to come up with another excuse.

sanjose[/img]

Yeah, I left the hatch attached.

Today at lunch, I re-attached the lifters and the noise did not come back. So, I can't do much more until the noise comes back.

I too have the annoying little creaks and pops in the rear section. I just found 12-packs of coke on sale 3/$8, so I bought 6 12-packs of coke and one 12-pack of Coors bottles. I placed all of this spread out on the rear hatch floor. Drove home over the normal route that creates pops and creaks, and VOILA, not a peep.

Now, not sure whether it is the cheapy hatch floor, or the way it acts in harmony with the other pieces in back. But, the pops and creaks went away with moderate weight on the hatch floor. Try this yourself just to eliminate a possibility before you continue with Honda.

Sometimes it's the simple thing that eludes being fixed.

oak lawn element,

thanks for the tip. but actually, one of my many attempts to diagnose it was to completely remove the cheapo spare cover. and the noise was still there.

Well jlo...the reason why your hatch is rattling is because you have too much junk in your trunk. right, JLO?

Well jlo...the reason why your hatch is rattling is because you have too much junk in your trunk. right, JLO?


kdish, please read the thread.

[quote]
Well jlo...the reason why your hatch is rattling is because you have too much junk in your trunk. right, JLO?


kdish, please read the thread.[/quote:b44a082f77]

JLO - um - the guy was making a joke about your screen name.

JLO - um - the guy was making a joke about your screen name.


I don't get it. Does JLO have a lot of junk in HER trunk? :?

My wife and I are on our 2nd element, the first one we had for two days and it started making that noise in the rear end. We carried it to the dealership and they searched for two days and could not find the problem. I called them and told them that we wonted another Element or our old car back. They gave us another one. The bad thing is that we have had this one for about three weeks and it is starting to make the same noise. I cannot believe this.

Anyone have any thoughts on what we should do?

[quote]


JLO - um - the guy was making a joke about your screen name.


I don't get it. Does JLO have a lot of junk in HER trunk? :?[/quote:695fcc57b5]

The term "junk in the trunk" refers to a large @$$! And JLO is famous for the "junk in her trunk" - how could you have that screen name and NOT know this?!? :lol:

Flattop,

It's great to hear that. Well, not for your or my situation, of course. But to know that mine is not an isolated case. And that it is not due to anything that I did (something that america honda may attempt to put the blame on me).

My questions for you are:

1) when you said that the dealer gave you another element, did it mean that they took the old one back and gave you the title (ownership) to a new element?

2) Did you or your dealership have to work through america honda to get you the new (2nd) element?

3) What is your dealership? name, city, and state?

Thanks so much!
sanjose

Yes they took the old one back and titled us a new one.

I am not sure if they worked through American Honda.

Hendrick Honda
Calhoun Memorial Hwy
Easley, SC 29642

I had the same problem when I turned to the right. The Service advisor said the dealership owner drives an Element and had the same problem. They spent most of the day troubleshooting with a mechanic riding on the rear floor. They found the problem. The strike plate on the rear hatch needed to be adjusted. Now the only problem I have is when I have a passenger in the front seat. It appears the rear passenger door creaks and pops with weight in the front seat. Oh well....

Emass knows what i'm talkin' about

The term "junk in the trunk" refers to a large @$$! And JLO is famous for the "junk in her trunk" - how could you have that screen name and NOT know this?!?

Well, JLO happens to be my initials.

Mine did it right after I got the car. I took it in for front dash driver's side...fix was "under hood air bottle hitting inner fender and fender was hitting molding by left outside mirror." HUH? At least the dash doesn't rattle. Now for the back hatch....it's a metal on metal sound that drives me crazy. My dealer said they fixed it, but two weeks later, it started up agian.
Their fix was "rigth rear window strut. replaced strut." I think it's the cables that hold the lower hatch. When open ,they are taut. When closed, they are loose and rattle around. DRIVES ME BONKERS!!!!

Their fix was "rigth rear window strut. replaced strut." I think it's the cables that hold the lower hatch. When open ,they are taut. When closed, they are loose and rattle around. DRIVES ME BONKERS!!!!

I thought it had to do with the cables as well, but had ruled them out by removing them altogether.

jlo

dear all,

whatever you do, please do NOT allow the dealership to use the (as JLO mentioned before) shotgun approach. As the result of Autowest Honda's shotgun approach, my element makes that clunking (metal-to-metal) noise about 4-5 times more often than before. But worse of all, now my right side interior door panel and rear panel start to rattle as well. Not very often, but it does happen when i go through a certain type of small but consecutive bumps.

i would recommend that you wait for the response from america honda on my case first (they should get back to me within this week). or if you must fix it now at the dealership, specify exactly what they only should look at. Don't let them do the guessing game.

good luck, everyone. this sure put a big damper in my element experience. never again will i buy first year model!!! and depending on honda's response, i may never buy another honda product.

sanjose

as i said in my previous posting, i openned a case with american honda. they said that they'll call back 3-5 working days. they never did. on the 6th working day after i filed my case, i called them and got their official response... same as before... "it's a normal characteristic of the element". and that they are not going to do anything about it at this time.

american honda basically shut the door on me basically because neither they nor the dealership (autowest honda of fremont, ca) had a clue how to fix it. so i turned to the dealership where i purchased the car (capitol honda of san jose, ca). the sales department will not do anything about it without the assessment from the service department. i talked to the director of their service department. he's a nice and rational guy (a damn refreshing change from dealing with all the other crooks so far). and yet, this service director said that he wouldn't work on my car unless he gets the authorization from honda (since he may not get paid for something that had already lbeen ooked at and deemed "normal"). now he's asking american honda for their permission. let's see what will happen. i will keep you guys posted on this.

another lesson learned: service is very important. make sure you buy your next vehicle from a good/trusted sales person. at least when things go wrong, he/she should shield you from having to deal with all of these hassles on your own. right about now, i would certain pay a thousand more for this car if i knew i would get good service.

honda element: $19,000
anguish: pricelist

I have good news.

First the good news is that I have isolated the source of the clicking noise to be the hinges themselves. The hinge pin appears to be set in place and cannot rotate so the outer sleeve is the moving part. And it appears that parts of the sleeve is may be too tight around the pin and is binding to the pin causing the clicking sound any time there is any minute movement such as when you go over bumps or jab the accelerator at low speeds.

Here is something you can do to help the situation. With the struts removed, move the hatch up and down until you are tired and then move it up and down some more. This will wear down the part that is binding. Or may be simply add some lithium grease to the hinge. I have not try this yet, but I think it should work.

I have confirmed it. :D

All I had to do to fix this problem was spray white lithium grease into the hinges. Have not heard a click for a 100 miles. Looks like they may not have properly lubricated the hinges during manufacturing. :x

Hope this will fix it for y'all. :wink:

Now I have to come up with some good fix for the dash rattle that is starting to annoy me.

Good luck.

[quote:c2c5a5cb63="jlo"]I have confirmed it. :D

All I had to do to fix this problem was spray white lithium grease into the hinges. Have not heard a click for a 100 miles. Looks like they may not have properly lubricated the hinges during manufacturing. :x

Hope this will fix it for y'all. :wink:

Now I have to come up with some good fix for the dash rattle that is starting to annoy me.

Good luck.[/quote:c2c5a5cb63]

Thanks so much for your posting, jlo.
I forwarded all your useful hints to the service department.

An unrelated side note, my engine light came one for the second time (at 1700 miles). The first time it went on was at 600 miles. Autowest honda of Fremont replaced the catalytic converter. I guess that wasn't the real fix.

[quote:e63cb5a428="jlo"]I have confirmed it. :D

All I had to do to fix this problem was spray white lithium grease into the hinges. Have not heard a click for a 100 miles. Looks like they may not have properly lubricated the hinges during manufacturing. :x
[/quote:e63cb5a428]

JLO,you have done a great service to your fellow Element owners! :D Way to go!!
Richard

jlo,

where and how exactly do you use that grease?

where and how exactly do you use that grease?

Just spray it into the hinges at the top of the hatch. It has worked very well for me. 200 miles and still no noise.

[quote]where and how exactly do you use that grease?

Just spray it into the hinges at the top of the hatch. It has worked very well for me. 200 miles and still no noise.[/quote:969f7a4b89]

I went and tried this out, the white lithium approach. It didn't work for me. Noise is exactly same as before.

Another fyi, service department contacted american honda. Once again, american honda stuck to their initial assessment, "a normal characteristic of the element". So the service department would not do anything to fix this problem or even look at it.

Imagine this scenario. Bought an expensive Sony HDTV. Video works great. However, there's an excessive popping sound that is NOT part of the programming that's being shown. Called for service. Service couldn't fix it for 3 times. Service dept called American Sony. A rep came out. Still does not have a fix for it. Decided to call it "a normal characteristic of a Sony HDTV". Now no one would touch this problem.

This whole thing is driving me mad. :x
Has anyone filed a lemon law claim in the state of California?

Thanks very much for listening, guys.

I went and tried this out, the white lithium approach. It didn't work for me. Noise is exactly same as before.

Hmmm. Have you tried removing the tailgate suspension cables?

[quote]I went and tried this out, the white lithium approach. It didn't work for me. Noise is exactly same as before.

Hmmm. Have you tried removing the tailgate suspension cables?[/quote:f5b0dd4e4c]

Please tell me more.
1) How do I remove it?
2) Purpose? Is this just for problem isolation? Or permanently removing it?
3) Once I remove it, what should I expect?

Thanks again, jlo.

Sanjose, if your dealer is telling you that American Honda say it's a normal characteristic of the vehicle, why not call American Honda customer relations difectly yourself and tell them you have this problem, that the dealer tells you it's 'normal' and won't rectify it or assist you further and that since other owners tell you it is not a characteristic of their Elements, it makes you doubt the credibiluty of your dealer's statement. That you are asking them (American Honda) to arrange for this to be examined by another dealer and that you either expect the problem to be fixed to your reasonable satisfaction or that American Honda will write to you confirming this to be a characteristic of the vehicle and explaining how that is so when it is not commonly reported by other owners of the same vehcile. You might lastly point out that if it IS a characteristic of the vehicle, you want the statement in writing to that effect so that you can publish it to forewarn other owners and prospective owners of the situation, and if it ISN'T a characteristic of the vehicle, you simply want yours fixed so it doesn't continue to ruin your owner experience.

I suspect that might get you a bit further than talking to your dealer. It's worth a try in any case.

Hmmm. Have you tried removing the tailgate suspension cables?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Please tell me more.
1) How do I remove it?
2) Purpose? Is this just for problem isolation? Or permanently removing it?
3) Once I remove it, what should I expect?

Thanks again, jlo.

1) Use a socket wrench and detech the bolts at both ends. This is quite easy. Do remember to support the tailgate when you remove the second cable because you may damage the tailgate if you let go.
2) Yes, the purpose is problem isolation.
3) If this is the source of your noise, I have a few ideas to silence it, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Thanks again, jlo.[/quote]

1) Use a socket wrench and detech the bolts at both ends. This is quite easy. Do remember to support the tailgate when you remove the second cable because you may damage the tailgate if you let go.
2) Yes, the purpose is problem isolation.
3) If this is the source of your noise, I have a few ideas to silence it, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.[/quote]

Please let me make sure 3 things before I follow your advice
a) when you said "suspension cables", did you mean to say the hydrolic lifts? if so, goto (b)

b) I'm afraid that if I remove the bottom end of the hydrolic lift, the inside nut may fall off into the car body. Is this true or is the inside nut welded into the metal body?

c) The hydrolic lift looks to be pretty strong to be able to hold up the entire hatch at such a small leverage point. I'm afraid that if I remove the hydrolic lift, I may not be able to manually push it down and bolt it back in by hand. Please tell me I'm too paranoid

Thanks again, jlo.

[quote:6274fe92ab="za9ra22"]Sanjose, if your dealer is telling you that American Honda say it's a normal characteristic of the vehicle, why not call American Honda customer relations difectly yourself and tell them you have this problem, that the dealer tells you it's 'normal' and won't rectify it or assist you further and that since other owners tell you it is not a characteristic of their Elements, it makes you doubt the credibiluty of your dealer's statement. That you are asking them (American Honda) to arrange for this to be examined by another dealer and that you either expect the problem to be fixed to your reasonable satisfaction or that American Honda will write to you confirming this to be a characteristic of the vehicle and explaining how that is so when it is not commonly reported by other owners of the same vehcile. You might lastly point out that if it IS a characteristic of the vehicle, you want the statement in writing to that effect so that you can publish it to forewarn other owners and prospective owners of the situation, and if it ISN'T a characteristic of the vehicle, you simply want yours fixed so it doesn't continue to ruin your owner experience.

I suspect that might get you a bit further than talking to your dealer. It's worth a try in any case.[/quote:6274fe92ab]

za9ra22,
I did talk to American Honda. In fact, they're the only ones who continued to make that statement "a normal characteristic of the element". The dealers don't care. I think for as long as the dealers can be sure that Honda will pay for their work, they will fix or attempt to fix anything.
Also, I did ask the American honda personnel who opened and owned my case that if I can get her to send me the official statement that it is "a normal characteristic...". She refused and said that it's all in the case# that I opened. Not to worry, I do have the copy of the worksheet where it did mention about Honda rep making that statement.
All and all, what so damn frustrating is that Honda won't change their position => Honda won't pay for service work on the hatch problem => no Honda dealers will touch this hatch problem.

Sanjose, Given the statement you have, I suggest you escalate the problem. Firstly by asking to speak to a customer service manager at American Honda since you don't appreciate the lack of concern or support you have received so far and the refusal to provide you with a written statement you can use appropriately, and subsequently to arbitration.

One thing is certain - what you are suffering is NOT a characteristic of the vehicle. Mine doesn't do it, and judging by the lackof overwhelming 'mine too' messages in this thread, many others don't either. That suggests there is a difference in components, fit and/or finish between your E and mine (for example), and where there's a difference there's a potential repair. It may be that the design is PRONE to cause these sort of problems, but that's an issue Honda can be held to account for because reasonable people have a reaonsbale expectation of their new cars being reasonably free from spurious noises and defects.

This is probably one of the first things that you checked, but since I haven't seen it mentioned...

Have you checked to be sure that the license plate isn't the source of your noise? I found that I needed to cinch mine in good to keep it from rattling. And if one of the little foam pads under the bottom corners was to drop off, that could be a constant and annoying noise.

I should probably mention that my E has never exhibited this "normal characteristic" either.

Maybe the rest of us have abnormal vehicles since they DON'T rattle. It could be that we'll take them in for service and the mechanic will say "I fixed your rattle so that you'll be able to hear it now."

Please let me make sure 3 things before I follow your advice
a) when you said "suspension cables", did you mean to say the hydrolic lifts? if so, goto (b)

b) I'm afraid that if I remove the bottom end of the hydrolic lift, the inside nut may fall off into the car body. Is this true or is the inside nut welded into the metal body?

c) The hydrolic lift looks to be pretty strong to be able to hold up the entire hatch at such a small leverage point. I'm afraid that if I remove the hydrolic lift, I may not be able to manually push it down and bolt it back in by hand. Please tell me I'm too paranoid

Thanks again, jlo.

I am referring to the suspension cables for the tailgate.

If you want to experiment with the lifts, you do not need to unbolt anything.
The lifts have a metal clip at both ends. All you'd have to do to is pry the clip up by about a 1/4" using a flat bladed screw driver and pull the strut away toward the side of the car. If it does not slide off, just pry the clip up a little more. Have said that, I do not believe there is anything to be gained by doing this.

One more thing, when you used the white lithium grease, did you make sure to get grease to the middle of sleeve? There is a gap along the back side of the sleeve that you cannot see. Bend the tube and make sure you get grease in there. Simply greasing the ends would not be enough.

:? I too have a rattle but it's not coming from the back, it's coming from the engine area. What can that be? I only have 4,230 miles and it's been going on since I got my oil changed at 3,683. I'm a little concerned because this is a brand new car.

[quote:11fc65fa1c="jlo"]
One more thing, when you used the white lithium grease, did you make sure to get grease to the middle of sleeve? There is a gap along the back side of the sleeve that you cannot see. Bend the tube and make sure you get grease in there. Simply greasing the ends would not be enough.[/quote:11fc65fa1c]

jlo,
you're a genius! i did what you suggested (grease up the back section of the sleeves). i'm happy to report that it has dramatically reduced the frequency of the metal-metal contact noise. now, the frequency of occurences is about 20% of what it was before. and when it does make the noise, it makes the same noise but only about 50% as loud and metalic compared to before. so it looks as if this is the problem area.

i completely lubbed (flooded) those hinges with the white lithium grease stuff. so i can no longer rely on that solution to eliminate the remaining 20% of the noise. in your expert opinion, do you think it's worth it to attack other areas (i.e. tailgate?). i know it doesn't make sense to do that. but i must do something :cry: the anticipation of the noise still bothers the hell out of me.

when i go home tonight, i may try to shuff some styrofoam in between the hinges to see if it completely eliminates the noise... if this works, perhaps i can get the dealers to shave off the hinges... oops, i forgot, the dealers won't do **** since american honda won't pay them to fix this "normal characteristic"

Sanjose
EX, 2WD, SLM

jlo,
you're a genius! i did what you suggested (grease up the back section of the sleeves). i'm happy to report that it has dramatically reduced the frequency of the metal-metal contact noise. now, the frequency of occurences is about 20% of what it was before. and when it does make the noise, it makes the same noise but only about 50% as loud and metalic compared to before. so it looks as if this is the problem area.

i completely lubbed (flooded) those hinges with the white lithium grease stuff. so i can no longer rely on that solution to eliminate the remaining 20% of the noise. in your expert opinion, do you think it's worth it to attack other areas (i.e. tailgate?). i know it doesn't make sense to do that. but i must do something the anticipation of the noise still bothers the hell out of me.

when i go home tonight, i may try to shuff some styrofoam in between the hinges to see if it completely eliminates the noise... if this works, perhaps i can get the dealers to shave off the hinges... oops, i forgot, the dealers won't do **** since american honda won't pay them to fix this "normal characteristic"

Sanjose
EX, 2WD, SLM


I am glad to hear that it is working (somewhat) for you. You may want to just work them in a little. i.e. move the hatch back and forth near the closed position.

jlo

Took mine in for dealer fix of clicking sound. They reported finding a half-dollar size washer inside the hatch panel. It didn't fix the problem, and now I'm wondering what important component is light one washer? I adjusted the rubber bumpers on the inside of the hatch myself and noise has lessened. That coupled with playing the radio medium loud seems to have resolved the problem.

[quote:f7cdae6d7c="jlo"]

I am glad to hear that it is working (somewhat) for you. You may want to just work them in a little. i.e. move the hatch back and forth near the closed position.

jlo[/quote:f7cdae6d7c]

jlo,
You're right again. It worked better after it "sits" in for awhile. On my 20 miles drive to lunch today, I would say I only heard it twice and they are much less audible. The noise only occurs at very low speed (>5mi/hr) while turning. It doesn't happen at all at higher speed (>20mi/hr) even on bumpy roads. I hope I don't have to re-apply the grease every so often.
thanks again, jlo. You saved me!

My Element had a rattle in the dash, a popping noise in the rear end and a creaking noise coming from the front end. I carried it to the dealership on Monday they called me on Tuesday and said they had rattle in the dash fixed and that the creaking noise in the front and the popping noise in the rear were a charactoristic of the vehicle. Well, the rattle in the dash is worse now than when I carried it in. I called the service manager back today to tell him about it and he tells me that these vehicles have alot of plastic in them and they are going to rattle.
I have put a call into American Honda they gave me a case number and said they will contact me in a couple of days. If they call me back and tell me that this is just a charactoristic of the vehicle I am going to carry it back to the dealership and tell them to keep the vehicle that I am not making payments on it.

[quote:0eb047f663="Flattop"]My Element had a rattle in the dash, a popping noise in the rear end and a creaking noise coming from the front end. I carried it to the dealership on Monday they called me on Tuesday and said they had rattle in the dash fixed and that the creaking noise in the front and the popping noise in the rear were a charactoristic of the vehicle. Well, the rattle in the dash is worse now than when I carried it in. I called the service manager back today to tell him about it and he tells me that these vehicles have alot of plastic in them and they are going to rattle.
I have put a call into American Honda they gave me a case number and said they will contact me in a couple of days. If they call me back and tell me that this is just a charactoristic of the vehicle I am going to carry it back to the dealership and tell them to keep the vehicle that I am not making payments on it.[/quote:0eb047f663]

A common pattern emerges... whatever they cannot fix, they (american honda) will call it "normal characteristic" and thus, relieve themselves of all liabilities.
I filed a complaint with american honda today about their blatant behavior. if I don't get a satisfactory response from them, I will pursue this to the end with the help of some consumer protection groups.
If we let this one go, in the long term, it will be very detrimental --- whatever they cannot fix, we will have to live with. I'm not going to stand for that.

by the way, the dealership is not obligated to take your vehicle back because, just like in my case, they completely rely on honda's position. if american honda stick to their position (as they did in my case), the dealer would just say that it is normal and they don't have to refund you. So essentially, you're at their mercy if they want to retain good customer service. My dealership certainly didn't.

Please keep us posted with american honda's response. I'm very interested to find out if they're consistent with their position.

Good luck Flattop! Hang in there, buddy.

A common pattern emerges... whatever they cannot fix, they (american honda) will call it "normal characteristic" and thus, relieve themselves of all liabilities.
I filed a complaint with american honda today about their blatant behavior. if I don't get a satisfactory response from them, I will pursue this to the end with the help of some consumer protection groups.
If we let this one go, in the long term, it will be very detrimental --- whatever they cannot fix, we will have to live with. I'm not going to stand for that.


I haven't been around for a while. I had a logic board go bad on my laptop, and didn't add EOC back on my navigator bar (until now). Reading this thread reminds me why I missed this place.

Shortly after I bought my E in June 2005, I started to hear the clicking noise in the tailgate area. Slowly, it became really irritable. About a month ago, I took the E in for its 20,000 mile service. Normally, I'd just take it to the local Midas and have them do the same work at 1/3 the cost. But, part of the 20,000 mile warranty was adjusting and tightening doors and windows. So, when I brought it in, I told them about the clicking/rattling. I told them I thought it was the back hatch. One of their mechanics went for a ride with me to identify the source of the problem. They thought it was the stabilizar bar links or something. They needed me to come back to replace them (they didn't have the parts). What do I know? Okay, I figured they had probably seen this problem before, and they said they had.

I took it in again, they replaced the links, and I drove off. Before I left the parking lot, the noise was there, with no improvement. I called the manager on the way to work (I was going to be late if I stayed at the dealership). He was nice, apologetic, asked me to come back and get a loaner vehicle (very reasonable guy, by the way).

Later that day, i did, he drove with me, and assessed it as the back hatch (really?)! Two days later they said they had fixed it. I came back, and found that they had "lubed weatherstripping on back door. Noise is gone." I don't believe it, and this sounds like a temporary fix to get rid of me. I tell the night manager that (different guy) and ask someone to show me what they did so I can see for myself what needs to be done when the "lube" wears out. He says no one can show me cause the tech is gone and they don't know what he did. I say I don't trust the work because its the third time I've been in to fix the problem and they keep saying its fixed with things that make little sense. He cuts me off in mid-sentence and says "have a good night" and walks away. Bad idea. My first task will see that he finds a new job. Sure enough, I get into the car, the noise is there as if they did nothing (which is probably the case). I've got the phone support number for Honda.

I am a retired attorney (changed careers). Honda will hear that. If they don't agree to fix it, I will also file a formal complaint with our State's Attorney General's office consumer division. We also have a lemon law statute, which requires (I am pretty sure) the dealership/manufacturer to pay all attorney's fees if they lose. This is my first Honda. It will likely be my last if they don't remedy the problem. It is maddening after a while, and totally unacceptable on a nearly new car that cost over $20,000. This is not a Yugo, or even a Hyundai. I bought a Honda for the utility, the looks, but also the reputation. So much for that.

What a bummer. I had been so happy with my Element in every other way, and it sounds like I am going to have to fight this company to get a legitimate response. I guess its back to VW for my next car. I had purchased 4 VWs prior to this Element, and every time I had a problem (which wasn't that often), VW took care of me politely, efficiently, competently and reasonably. I am already unable to say that about Honda and this dealership. I already figure I will deal with the Honda "gatekeeper" (the "no" guy), and the gardener (the "sorry" guy) and the doorman (the "I'll see what I can do" guy) before I deal with the lord of the manor (the "okay, you are not going to go away, so I am they guy with the power to do we need to do to make you stop bothering us" guy). He/she is usually not less than three, but usually not more than about five people up the chain.

Just a couple of notes:
You do not have to have your service/warranty done at the dealer where you bought the E, you can have warranty work done at ANY dealership. It's a bit late now but I have always fround it helpful to try at least two service depts before going to the manufacturer - once you do that you are kinda stuck even if you do find a better service dept, Honda isn't gonna cover it.
Also, never deal with the service writer on a 2nd visit for the same problem. Always ask for and insist on speaking to the service manager ONLY. Make an appt if you have to. After that ask for an appt with the local area service rep from Honda. It's always best to exhaust all the local options before going to the manufacturer. Honda should be your LAST resort, not your 1st.
And my last bit of advice - if it's something that could be serious NEVER take the car back until you are SURE it's fixed. Make them bring out the car and take it for a drive with the service mgr BEFORE you pay or sign off on the work - if it isn't fixed, they keep it until it is...period. The longer you have their loaner car, the faster they will make some real progress fixing yours. It's pretty simple to say - it isn't fixed so I am refusing it - what can they do? They have already acknowledged there's a problem so you have no obligation to take the car back in an unrepaired state, no matter what they "said" they did to "fix" it. It ISN'T FIXED - that simple.
Good luck everyone - remember, there isn't a perfect vehicle made by anyone - ALL of them will eventually have a problem. I have had them on vehicles 3 or 4 times the cost of the E. I probably shouldn't, but I do consider the price I paid for the vehicle when demanding certain things - to me, the higher the price, the better the vehicle and the service should be. I will expect a lot from Honda but I am aware I am driving a $20K vehicle, not an $80K vehicle. For $20K I am willing to cut Honda a little slack - especially when it comes to noises, rattles and squeaks. Funny tho, I find my E has far fewer such minor "issues" than my Corvette did at the same age.

Tango, your response is reasonable. I've edited my post to tone down the language a bit. I think I was more upset by the rude treatment I received after being put through such a headache. I went out into the garage last night and checked where I could find the "lube." They did do something. They pretty much lubed the entire back hatch area, including hinges, weatherstripping everywhere, latches, plastic contact points, etc. So, they did take the shotgun approach. I had hoped they had actually identified the problem area. Now I know why they couldn't show me where the noise was coming from. They don't know, and just lubed every possible location. As the lube wears off, the noise will return to its previous volume and frequency, so I will try JLO's suggestions (thanks by the way). Until then, I will just have to avoid getting grease on myself every time I open the hatch.

I had squeaking from the rear door on my used RAV4. On examination I found that door seals were dirty and had been sticking to the facing metal. I cleaned both the seals and the metal with 303. That stuff also lubricates. That helped quite a bit, though in some areas paint had worn off the metal, leaving a rough surface. I also realized that I need to clean and lubricate the wiring harness that feeds into the door.

Because of that experience I typically spend more time cleaning the door seals of all my cars than I spend on the outside paint.

Based both on my own experience, and from what I've read on this forum, doing your own detective work to find squeaks and clicks is often more productive than trying to get the dealership to do it. Often it comes down to who is willing to spend the time, looking at potential problem areas, and riding around in the car, poking and listening, to find the source of the noise.

paulj

...snip They pretty much lubed the entire back hatch area, including hinges, weatherstripping everywhere, latches, plastic contact points, etc. So, they did take the shotgun approach. I had hoped they had actually identified the problem area. Now I know why they couldn't show me where the noise was coming from. They don't know, and just lubed every possible location. As the lube wears off, the noise will return to its previous volume and frequency, so I will try JLO's suggestions (thanks by the way). Until then, I will just have to avoid getting grease on myself every time I open the hatch.
Now THIS I would have been a bit po'd about - I realize they were trying to help but turning a minimum wage employee loose with a grease gun is not a solution. I would have demanded they clean up the hatch and get every bit of lube off it - "paying for my ongoing dry-cleaning bills is gonna get expensive" is what I woud have told them.
Ughh - sometimes the service techs need to live with their own repairs to understand why it's not a good idea to cover the back hatch of a car with lube....and you still have the noise.
BTW, for some areas Simple Green might work to cut the greasy residue without hurting the surface.

Well this thread has me a little concerned since I've noticed that the back of my E is rattling a bit. It's this sort of metalic squeak that I can't quite figure where it's coming from in the rear.

I did open up the hatch and noticed that one of the struts that support the rear hatch seemed loose (not where it connected to the body or the hatch) in the middle. I'll have the dealer check it out, but they can step away from the grease gun.

If you do have trouble with a dealer, there is NO reason you should have to take your car to them. One of the beauties of living in a big city is that there are a ton of dealers that you can take your car to. If the one dealer I bought the car from does me wrong once, I won't hesitate to take my business elsewhere.

Good news. I called the service department today and spoke again with the service manager. I am glad I did. First, they didn't just lube the whole hatch area. They took off the plastic part of the bottom of the hatch, tighted up a "striker plate" and a few other things (I can't remember but it didn't sound like bull when he said it). He inspected the work when it was done himself, took it out for a ride himself, and decided it was taken care of. I told him it was greatly diminished but was not entirely gone. He told me their next step if it gets bad again, is that they would send it to a body shop to have it adjusted, and if that didn't work, they would get me a new hatch door. I feel much better. He also is sending me a check for $50 for the gas I used going to the dealership, and is sending me a coupon for free service at 30,000 miles. He gave me his direct dial, and told me to call him personally if the problem persists. I really think he is trying. I told him about the night manager's rudeness, and he seemed aware of the problem, stating the guy had been told to call him at home if I had any questions. Apparently someone else may have heard the way the guy talked to me because he was not doubtful at all about who was right and who was wrong, apologizing for what I had to put up with and telling me he is planning to "make some changes" to avoid problems like that in the future.

So, for now, no need to call Honda. I used some WD-40 on the hinges and lift rods this morning, and also deflated the tires from 36 psi all the way around to 32 in front and 34 in back, as the manual indicates. All of this made for a much quieter ride this morning. The noise is still perceptible, but liveable. At least I know that as the grease wears out, if it gets worse, he's going to eventually get me a new door if they can't fix it with an adjustment.

Nice job by the daytime guy.

First, I am a proud new owner of the 06' Atomic Blue Element. Only have 600 miles as of now. This site rocks. I have found a ton of good tips and information and I wanted to post this to hopefully help someone else.

I had a noise that I would consider a rattle on the passenger side door and "somewhere" in the rear when hitting larger bumps ( I live in the Detroit Metro area and some of the roads here are bad compared to where I have been ( St. Louis, Florida, Switzerland, up north in Michigan)). I read many posts and put the info together to attempt to fix this little issue.

First - I pushed on the top of each side door that allows access to the rear seats and there was no movement. I then pushed on the bottom of each door and seem some movement. I then loosened the latches for the bottom of these doors near the driver and passenger seats and moved them toward the interior. When I closed these doors and pushed on the bottom the movement was less. I also loosened and moved the latches toward the interior on the two rear tailgate latches since I had an occassional noise in the back also.

Second - I used a silicone spray lubricant and coated / lubed all the rubber seals on the doors and two long seals on the body where the doors when closed. I let them sit for a several minutes then wiped off the excess. If you do this, use short light bursts since you might not want to get this all over the outside or inside of the car.

Last I applied spray white lithium grease on the lower rear door hinges and manually raised and lowered the gate about 100 times to work the grease in. I also used WD40 on the struts for the rear window wher they attach to posts.

I then looked around the rear area to look at some things I seen elsewhere on HEOC. Not much you can do with the cables. But I did find one thing I didn't see anywhere else yet. THE REAR BRAKE LIGHT in the back window. I went to move it a little to see if it was tight and it was making a sound that might be bothersome. I popped the cover off and the screws were tight and the assembly didn't move or make a sound. The cover was loose so I put electrical tape on the 3 inch or so lip the goes into the body. After trial and error I had put on 3 pieces. This piece now goes on way more snug and it was quiet now. All of this took me a little over an hour.

I drove it the following day and I didn't hear any of the noises I thought I heard from before. Give this a shot. It may well be worth your time and trouble. If something changes, I'll make another post!

The brake light case is a good example of why it is often more productive to track down the squeeks and rattles yourself, rather than expecting the dealership to do it for you. Unless it is a common problem (explained, for example in a TSB), someone else isn't going to spend the time needed to track down the problem.

paulj

i have had trunk rattle before, and my problem was the rear int. clips were loose or broken so i had it fixed and have not heard anything ever since.:-D

I've noticed that on bumpy/rough freeway, I get an annoying vibrating sound from the rear. My wife and I identified it as one of those plastic panels/covers on the side of the rear seats that gets removed when you take the seats out.

(I didn't read this entire thread, so that might have been suggested already...) :)

Well my popping / rattle noise in the rear hatch / tailgate came back. It has been several months since I have taken it to the deaker for this same issue.

Since I am busy at the moment and didn't want to take my car back to the dealer, I deciced to find the issue myself. I didn't believe the noise was coming from the latches since I tried this first in the past.

I first removed the panel on the door that drops down, which is where the dealer said the noise was coming from the first time several months ago, thinking the foam piece they applied came loose or wore through.

I then drove to work and the noise was still there. Currently after work I have been going to the hospital to see my dad. I park in a parking structure that is several levels high and this has proved to be an excellent way to test for this noise. The bumps test up / down and the turns while going up/down a level apply forces that make the body flex ( for lack of a better description ). Before I drove home I removed the panel on the door that swings upward. The noise was still there.

I then seen the post by Calgary Chris about greasing the connections for the struts that hold the door upward. I removed them at all four points at work on my lunch and used a Mobil bearing grease. The noise was STILL there. :-(

I then removed the plastic piece that has the small door the bridges the gap between the inside of the car to the door that drops downward. The noise was still there.

While deciding what to remove / check next, I read this post:
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1526&highlight=rear+tailgate+noises

I decide first to remove both strut assemblies. I did this ( carefully since the door is fully supported by these two struts! ). While doing this and supporting the door on my back / shoulders, I bent down slightly to get the other strut that i had laid down in thw back of my vehicle, I heard a small POP / CLICK. Since I had a can of spray white lithium grease I decided to spray the hinges on the upper AND lower doors. I worked the grease in by moving each door back and forth over 100 times then closed the back.

I drove to work, to the hospital, up and down in the parking structure and back home and I didn't hear a thing. The only thing I did hear was the door over the tire that moved when I hit a rather large bump since the trim piece with the little door that bridges the gap helps keep that in place was still removed.

So far so good. I will now install one piece at at time while leaving the struts off since I believe the Struts and the hinges are the sources of these noises. I will make an update in the future when I have a final resolution.