That is the question.


I have a 2 month old E and have washed it 3 times so far. It comes out like a gem everytime.....BUT I've noticed that the paint has a rough surface, even after washing and drying. I haven't given it the first wax job because of this. I recently discovered this:

http://www.autogeek.net/motcalgolcla.html

Which I am going to try. Has anyone else used this product, if so what are your thoughts....

I use the mothers clay bar and love it. It will make the surface of you E glass smooth. I highly encourage everyone to use a clay bar. Your paint has imperfections from the factory and the clay bar will help with 'em.

BTW...I have found the best way to keep the bar moist inbetween each use is to put it in a tupperware container and fill with the detailing spray to cover the bar. If your bar dies out it is trash or if you drop it or set it on anything where it can pick up any dirt you will want to throw it away. dirt in the bar WILL scratch your paint. Mine is either in the tupperware or on the surface of the car.

Yeah, what BigTzElement said. I Clay Bared mine the day after it was home. Should have seen the wife's face :shock: . It's a New car!!! Why are you wasting your time? YES DEAR :lol: !! You think it's clean, wait till you feel the finish when you Clay Bar and wax. IT'S LIKE SILK!!!!! I use Mothers and Micro Fiber towels. Love it.

I have been using automagics clay and bodyshine since it came out in 1990 i have used on everything from my hondas, acuras, dodges, fords and m.b. and it make the paint finishs all seem so soft and smooth. Dont be affraid it is a great product.

Mark

Clay must be experienced to be believed. Absolutely incredible what it can do for a finish.

If your finish needs it. My Element did not need it when it was new (probably wasn't shippped on a train so no rail dust problem) so I'll clay next spring to get the winter gunk off.

My 2001 Miata, just three months off the lot, was transformed by clay.

Clay will also take off road tar, garage door paint (a friend's mishap), etc.

I use Zaino clay bars (www.zainobros.com (http://www.zainobros.com)) but have heard good things about Mothers' and others.

It really does do a nice job. There is so little paint area on an E it takes maybe 20 minutes to do it and it's the safest way to take off any junk. I use Meguiar's products only. Looking at the description on the box you'd think it was some sort of snake oil thing but it makes a huge difference in the feel and clarity.

Make sure you keep folding it over for a fresh area, also if you find something like road paint just keep going over that area until it goes away, be patient, some of the junk I pulled off my bike took 5 minutes of rubbing in one area to remove but can't damage the paint. I removed road paint that was right on top of the pin stripes It's a 1980 paint job so it has about one coat of clear and the clay doesn't take any paint/clear off, unlike rubbing compound. I strongly recommend waxing after you use the clay.

All this talk about clay bars...clay bars, clay bars, clay bars...thats all I keep reading about here...and you know what? I went out today and tried the Mother's clay bar kit ( I've been using Mother's products forever )...


Damn that clay bar did a nice job on the finish of my Element! I really didn't want to believe the bottoms of my doors were so abrasive...I could actually hear the crud come off as I passed the bar over the paint. Then I waxed and I've got to say my E looks real nice ( not that it didn't before ).


Maybe someday when I'm feeling excessively ambitious, I'll give the clay bar treatment to my '99 Hyundai...that thing could really use a good detailing.

I suppose the only good news is, that when I go to clay it before the winter (sorry guys, I refuse to do this more than twice a year... I'm anal enough as is...) that the whole care isn't painted! Jeez, imagine having to clay that much more? :shock:

Duplicate what Hiker Chick said (right down to the same year Miata).

I waited for three months after the born on date of the E to clay it (the top is a #&@*!), but it came out wonderful. Do it once annually.

I live within one hundred yards of the beach, so constant car care and waxing is important.

Tips on how to clay:
There are so many methods and what not for properly detailing the car. Go to http://www.autopia.org to find out what the detailing obsessed crowd does with their cars. A lot of good tips.

SamIam,
I have "claybarred" my Element, as well as a few other cars I own or owned before applying polish and it really makes a difference. I've used Zaino's Clay bar, they ship two in a package.

With Zaino's process, you wash the car with Dawn dishwashing liquid and water to strip all old wax/polish since it is most alkaline. Then claybar using zaino car wash liquid and water in a sprayer. "Bar" the whole car in straight lines rather than circular motion. Then wash with Zaino car wash, dry with clean white cotton towels.

Zaino has a polish lock base coat, then polish and gloss enhancer.

Sounds like a lot of work, (it is) but the results are spectacular.

check photos on www.zainobros.com

Washed the car this weekend. Had to work hard to get the bird sh** off. When I was done, the car looked great, but if you look real close and at the right angle, you can still see kind of an outline of where some of the bird crap was. Will the clay get that out? :confused:

Will the clay get that out? :confused:

if the bird crap did not eat thru the clearcoat, yes.
If it did eat thru the clearcoat, the clay will smooth out the hole in the paint layers.

Always clean up the crud before it gets hard. It saves the paint.

Ive always been using clay bars on my previous cars. They are worth the $$ which is not much. It cleans the paint so well and gets it ready for waxing.
Just takes some time and patience to do on the size of the element

tO CLAY...

cLAY WORKS WONDERS...!

You should clay the car as soon as you bring it home, that is when it needs it the most. If you let the rail dust sit on the paint too long it will deteriorate your clear.

You should clay the car as soon as you bring it home, that is when it needs it the most. If you let the rail dust sit on the paint too long it will deteriorate your clear.

I wouldn't worry about claying a new E, unless you know that it actually was transported by rail or you can feel that it needs it. If it's a year old or has been through a winter then definately and every spring after that.

My '01 Miata was transformed by claying when it was brand new, but it had been shipped from Hiroshima.

My '04 Element was 6 months old when I clayed it and other than the lower side panels, it didn't need it. But the E didn't travel very far to get to DC, either.

Anytime you polish or wax a car you need to claybar first, otherwise all you doing is sealing in the contaminents under wax which can bed them into your clearcoat for good. If you buy a new car and think the dealers wax job will hold up sufficiently to the outside elements you're kidding yourself. People think I'm crazy for buying a new car and immediately putting 4-8 hours into claying, polishing and sealing the paint, but years later when it still looks like a new finish they ask what my secret is.

I bought the element for a utility vehicle so I'm not worried so much about the finish, but I can tell you there were plenty of contaminents in the paint when I bought it with 6 miles on it.

That is the question.


I have a 2 month old E and have washed it 3 times so far. It comes out like a gem everytime.....BUT I've noticed that the paint has a rough surface, even after washing and drying. I haven't given it the first wax job because of this. I recently discovered this:

http://www.autogeek.net/motcalgolcla.html

Which I am going to try. Has anyone else used this product, if so what are your thoughts....

I have used several brands of clay. Some available OTC and other from suppliers like Autogeek.
For a locally available clay, I think Clay magic is a good value. About $10 and you have the clay and lube. Plenty for a few cars. I pick it up at autozone.
If you aren't sure if you need to use clay, try the following.
Once you have washed and dried your car (hand wash and microfiber dry please), put your hand in a thin sandwich bag and run it over the surface of your paint with your finger tips. Feel grit? Time to clay.
I have clayed cars that felt like sandpaper and the results are amazing.
Claying is not hard. I do it about twice a year on my three vehicles. If you car is parked outside, you will really benefit from this process.

Anytime you polish or wax a car you need to claybar first, otherwise all you doing is sealing in the contaminents under wax which can bed them into your clearcoat for good.

Never heard that before and my experience dictates otherwise. That's a contention I'd like to see posted on the www.corvetteforum.com (http://www.corvetteforum.com) car care section because a lot of very experienced detailers post there and that's Sal Zaino's community.

That's an awful lot of claybarring if you're polishing more than 3 times a year. Unless you're regularly driving roads that kick up a lot of tar or you park your E next to a railroad...

Well, whatever makes you happy. 8) Your car gets a close shave frequently while mine builds up some stubble.

I don't claybar unless it is going to make a substantial difference and since I polish pretty often there is no way I'm going to claybar everytime. And I don't buy the assertion that contaminants are being locked under the polish. Five years of claybarring and they pulled plenty of crud off a Miata with 30+ coats of Zaino polish.

Your E had a much longer trip to Oregon from Ohio than mine had to DC. Maybe yours went by train. I suspect mine came by truck.

By the way, I'm from Hood River. Got my first major lesson in car care when three months after I had my '69 Mustang painted, Mt. St. Helens burped and a friend used her finger to write a big HOWDY in the ash that had accumulated on the roof of the car. Yep, mighty abrasive stuff that volcanic ash.

You wouldn't want to claybar over it, for sure. :shock:

I dont form my methods from what I read, I form them from experience. I've been building and showing cars for over 10 years.

Not to knock your methods either, but imagine parking under a tree that weeps tiny sap deposits onto your paint, or parking next to a building while they are painting even 2 blocks away wind will carry overspray. Just because you cant see these deposits doesn't mean they arent there, and then going and waxing over them. I'm not saying it'll destroy your paint, but if you clay you will get a much better to surface bond if it is free of contaminents.

I realize I am much more judging than 99% of auto enthusiasts, some call it a gift, some call it a disorder, reguardless I've shown and judged all the way up to the stages of Barrett Jackson and have learned from some well known "gurus" in the industry, so I'm just trying to pass along my knowledge, but whatever works for the individual is good too.

Peace

...I realize I am much more judging than 99% of auto enthusiasts, some call it a gift, some call it a disorder...
:grin:

Yeah. How many car owners even WASH their cars more than a few times a year after the first year of ownership?

With a car such as the E claying is quite an effort because of its height. I find the spring and fall polish/clay/wax routine keeps my finish pretty smooth (using several coats of a high quality wax or polymer) but I wash my car pretty frequently and use the spray as you dry wax most times.

My car is garaged though and we live in a dry climate so my experience may not be typical. I'm also sure that my car's finish is not smooth as a baby's bum like yours is (car I mean) :)

I'm also sure that my car's finish is not smooth as a baby's bum like yours is (car I mean) :)

:-D

But remember the E also doesn't have fenders or bumpers that need claying, other than the roof it's like a 30 minute job.

Sometimes I wish the roof was made of cladding, but imagine how loud it might be in a rain or hail storm :shock:

:grin:

Yeah. How many car owners even WASH their cars more than a few times a year after the first year of ownership?

I am trying not to be as tidy and wash it every two weeks...so I bought a california duster and while it's not a car wash, I could easily go a month without a wash.

I guess that not only do I wash it more than the people you are talking about, but I dust daily. If anyone sees a super clean ride in Seattle or Kirkland, honk twice cuz you know it's SAMIAM!

I've had my E for almost a year now and think I've washed it 5 times and waxed it once. Thanks for the tips on "claying" I think I'm going to do this soon, like after the winter...
I park my E in a garage that is 7 stories above the street yet a block away from a major train station, its open so its not that protected from the weather, but it gets no direct sunlight, stays dry and cool. Funny that my crown vic is 4 years old, 131,000 miles on it and sits outside all the time yet the paint still shines like new when washed)on rare occasions) and gets its once a year wax job(what do you want from a goverment agency). On the weekends the ford and E trade spots. The ford has held up fantastic so is the paint a better quality? Since the E sits so much(still smells new inside) I wonder if I should do anything extra in its care? :?

Well, after reading this thread, I went out and bought a Mothers clay bar kit....
What a difference!!!:grin:
smooth as silk! I put on the canuba wax that came with the kit, and it's like glass.
(didn't take out the bird crap, but I really didn't think it would, I knew it had eaten thru the clear coat)
My E is an 03, with 38000 km, and it gets washed and waxed pretty often - not every weekend, but at least every other.... I've even paste waxed, and buffed it twice..
But what a difference the clay made!! now for the inside.....:twisted:

Clayed my '04 SOP today for the first time with Mothers...holy crap!, what a difference that made...the damn hood reflected a full moon tonight as clear as if I was holding up a mirror.

I tossed a towel across the hood and it just slid across like melted butter. And it hit me when I was claying the SOP...I had done this once before when I was a kid with my dad and his 68 Vette. It was he that used to toss the towel across the hood when he was done...a good memory. :)

It's this weekend for me. I already warned my wife that I will be spending a few hours on my E this weekend doing the following:

1. Wash
2. Clay (Mother's)
3. PowerPolish (Mother's - special wax formulated for power buffers)
4. Wax (Mother's)
5. Drink a beer and enjoy

I am going to go all out and taping off all the plastic parts (with blue painter's tape) prior to the polishing and waxing to save the tedious job of trying to get the polish/wax off the panels.

I just bought a new B&D polisher ($30) and I'm pretty confident I can get good results with it using the Mothers products. I know the PC buffer is great but not worth $130 to use it 2 times a year. I'll try to take some before/after pics and post them.

MikeyG

It will be more than a "few" hours Mikey ;-)

I was planning on 4-5 hrs.

MikeyG

BTW: Sorry SamIAm if I hijacked your thread. ;-)

Lowes used to hv the PC for $99. It is a good investment and I use it on our 3 cars a couple of time a year for a real polish. Other times I use it to apply sealants and liquid waxes via a soft pad. It goes so much faster than by hand.
Taping off the trim is a must. Abrasive polishes really can stain the trim and be a bear to remove!
I have never used the B&D polisher. I hope it works for you.
The process you are describing takes me 6 to 10 hours and I am not new to detailing.

Take before and after pics and enjoy. I find detailing very therapeutic.

It's this weekend for me. I already warned my wife that I will be spending a few hours on my E this weekend doing the following:

1. Wash
2. Clay (Mother's)
3. PowerPolish (Mother's - special wax formulated for power buffers)
4. Wax (Mother's)
5. Drink a beer and enjoy

I am going to go all out and taping off all the plastic parts (with blue painter's tape) prior to the polishing and waxing to save the tedious job of trying to get the polish/wax off the panels.

I just bought a new B&D polisher ($30) and I'm pretty confident I can get good results with it using the Mothers products. I know the PC buffer is great but not worth $130 to use it 2 times a year. I'll try to take some before/after pics and post them.

MikeyG

Well did my routine this weekend. Not real impressed with the results. Turned out that I had more water spot problems. To get them out I think I would have to get more aggressive with the type of polish and/or equipment and I'm not confident enough in my abilities to do that. I thought I would have better results with the Mother's PowerPolish.

Oh well, guess I cant expect extreme results with mediocre materials.

MikeyG

Did you apply the Mother's power polish by hand or machine?
If you problem is water spots, I would try vinegar first (after a good hand wash).
If that does not work, a chemical cleaner like Klasse All In One (AIO) by hand or machine might work.
If that doesn't remove the spots, I think the next option would be a fine polish by PC or cyclo. From there, increase the cutting action of the pad and/or polish until you get results.
Water spots suck. Sorry you didn't get the results you wanted.

I applied the PowerPolish by machine (B&D 4,400OPM ROB). I know that the PC is recommended but can't spend the $120. I worked on the hood for a while and still couldn't get them off. PT91, I will try your suggestions next time.

MikeyG

Chamois! Get a good quality leather chamois, and dry the E as soon as you rinse it. If you still have water spots after that, put a good quality filter on you water line, or get a water softener :)

Chamois! Get a good quality leather chamois, and dry the E as soon as you rinse it. If you still have water spots after that, put a good quality filter on you water line, or get a water softener :)

The water spots were pre-existing (bought it used). I use a faucet hooked to my water softener along with the Mr. Clean system (for the convinence).

I think the bottom line is I need to get more aggressive and the machine I have won't allow me to do so without the availability of different cut grade bonnets.

MikeyG

claying is fun, who is up for a claying?

I've been holding off doing mine, until the little turd factories in the tree above my E have gone from the nest....
Until then, just regular wash and wax. In about 2 weeks, then the bars come out....