Hi, recently bought an E and one of the accessories offered is an undercoating designed to protect the undercarriage of the vehicle from rust and will also supposedly make the vehicle quieter. Looking on the web, I've seen some indication that these undercoatings are not needed. Could any of our savvier members tell me if this is a rip-off or not. Has anyone else been offered this or had it done?

Hi,

I can try to help a bit.

The undercoating usually is sold to try and help prevent against rust. While this sounds good, the dealer usually charges an arm and a leg for it. It is good to have in areas of the country that use a lot of salt for ice on the roads.

I can't see how it would help make the vehicle quieter, it basically is some oil that is sprayed on the underside of the vehicle.

My dealer did not even try to offer it to me.

Can anyone else add their thoughts?

I did get the UC on my 93 Civic Si but I can't really say if it did me any good. The car was pretty loud inside, all from road noise so I would say it really does not do much for sound. I had the car for eight years and had no rust problems any where. UC or no UC. I did not get the UC for my E.

yeah that is new to me too, undercoating making the vehicle quieter.. and also the sound in the element is nothing.. very nice and quiet!

My dealer did not even utter a peep about undercoating.. in fact I can not recall the last time I heard undercoating even mentioned, well perhaps it was the 70's it seems like more common on American cars over foriegn for some reason.. perhaps it is something that there is a big commision on for dealers, dunno...

but yeah, my integra is 7years old, i had a prelude for over 10 years, and neither had undercoating. I live in the SLUSH state of DE.. where salt is constantly on the road, sooo does not do much here.. unless they automatically put it on, as a given, and there is no charge... sorry i guess i have no good answer for you on this.. but sound deadening it does not do.

Thanks for all the quick responses- you guys are really on the ball! I'm still mulling it over- supposedly it comes with a lifetime warranty for preventing rust....the dealer folks said that with the somewhat low ground clearance of the E, the undercarriage is vulnerable to salt, moisture, etc. Ilive in NoVa by the way, any other D.C. area E drivers out there? Maybe this is a North-South issue-if you live in Cali or Tejas it might not be worth it.

I am in Northern VA and I did not get the UC. My 93 Civic Si was far lower to the ground then the E but since I did have the UC on that I can't say if it helped or not. What does the dealer charge for the UC on the E?

I've been offered a package deal of Front tinted windows, UC, and a paint seal that (supposedly) means you don't have to wax the exterior for 5 years, for $400. I hate the glare of the VA summers so tinting the extra long E front windows is a must. The other two I don't know much about. What dealer did you go to, szerchau? I've only lived here a year so I don't know much about the dealer racket here.

Hugo

Too funny, I have only lived here about two years. Since mid Dec I have gone to Tyson's Corner, Landmark and Fairfax Honda. I first wanted the 2wd EX auto in Orange. I ended up buying the Blue EX auto 4wd. When I saw the blue in person I loved it and my wife felt a little better with 4wd. I bought from Fairfax because they tried the most to make a deal. I got it for 21400 with Keyless & ignition kill. I think I could have got them down to just under 21000 if I tried but I was happy so I took the deal. Good luck!

Car manufacturers have gone a long way towards doing away with rust. Look at the cars on the road - compared to 10 years ago, it's rare to see rusted out panels behind the wheel, etc.

I think the undercoating is like taking too many vitamins. You're pissing away your money.

Simon: well said comment about under coating & vitamins, :D

hugosade: I grew up in Baltimore & Harford County Maryland, and now only live less then 2 hours from D.C. (in Northern DE)

as far as the ground clearance, I had a prelude, you basically get down on the ground and roll into them.. then I have the Integra which is just ever so slightly higher.. the Element is much higher then the Integra. So that gives you a good idea, i hope.

The window tinting, if you travel, the window tinting (front windows) depending on how dark is illegal.. so do keep that in mind too.

As far as all those "promises" Get them in Writing if you choose to go with all that, I think he is selling you swamp land personally!

As far as laws and tint go you should be safe as long as the tint is legal in the state it is registered. The police could be a pain if they want to be but I had tint from AZ that I drove in VA & NJ. The tint was not legal in VA & NJ but I was never bothered until I had to register the car in those states.

[quote:41f4aacf4f="szacherau"]As far as laws and tint go you should be safe as long as the tint is legal in the state it is registered. The police could be a pain if they want to be but I had tint from AZ that I drove in VA & NJ. The tint was not legal in VA & NJ but I was never bothered until I had to register the car in those states.[/quote:41f4aacf4f]

Even a matter of registration and legality, the Police annoyance factor can be more than enough.. ya know. I am glad though you had no hard time traveling form AZ to NJ & VA.. but I know people in FL and they get a heck of a hassle when they come up with their tinted windows.. so it is person to person basis.. just be careful, and make a decision on what you want to deal with.

Though with the distance of the windshield, and the angle of the windshield, plus those awesome visors the glare is nothing.. and again I am pretty darn parallel to you as far as that evil glare, I know exactly what you mean, and i my Integra it is harsh in the Element is is nothing!

So might want to take a test drive during that evil glare time of day (late afternoon) driving into the sun, and that will give you a good idea of what you can handle!

Lots of advice and info- you guys are the best! I also got my E from Fairfax, they seemed eager to make a deal and offered a good trade in for my old beater, although looking back I also probably could have gone lower. I'm in Centreville, my natural inclination was to go to Koons in Manassas but we went looking on a Sun. and they're closed Suns. They were willing to send me an email showing exactly what everything would cost (had I bought from them) which I appreciated.
I'm assuming the dealer would not give me illegal (in Va) tint but thanks for the tips as we travel a lot and should be ready for police attention.... were you suggesting I may have trouble with the tint if I re-registered my car in another state? That would not be cool. Having said that, I HATE glare and you VA people know what its like in summer here.
Gypsy-TDA, I'm from Philly originally so I know DE well. Also my wife and I have a border collie mix so we loved your pictures!!!! Our dawgs love the E!
Any more opinions about the tinting, undercoating or paint seal are welcome.

One other point: we often go shopping with our dogs in town, and sometimes have to leave them in the car for 15-30 mins. The tinting should cut down on heat....we bought a silver E for the reflective properties. Blue was probably our heart's first choice, but we had to think of them hounds!!

hugosade: hey former philly neighbor... yeah from what I have heard you may have an issue about re-registering your vehicle, when it comes to the window tint.. and I know in MD window tint (front windows) is a no-no.. some states are really strict, some are rather cool about it, so if you are planning to relocate that might be something to think about.. if you know your next destination you can check with that state about their issues with window tint.

The silver & blue have the same interior color & the interior color makes even more of a difference then the exterior.. but everylittle bit helps..

what kinda border collie mix do you have, mine is a full border collie & awesome, i love him...

I am glad you like my pix.. i have tons of photos of Streak (my border collie) on my site.. so feel free to oogle :D

Gypsy-TDA- Sade is our border collie/sheperd mix. We found her at the SPCA in North Philly and she's been a dream dog. Hugo is our other dog. He's a pug. Together they are a good canine test of the E. The pug demands comfort and Sade demands room!! We (3) have been waiting for this car all our life!!!!
I've done more research into the window tinting issue if anyone's interested. Winshield tinting is banned in most of the East, except for PA. The front 2 windows cannot be tinted in NJ, but NY and VA allow 30 and 50 percent, respectively. It's worth keeping these things in mind considering how many of use move up and down the East Coast.

hugosade: thank you for checking into the window tinting, legality!

Yeah when you mentioned DC I was thinking of the relocation or traveling frequently issue.. I don't know of many people who stay in that area (Northern VA or DC zone) long it is expensive as well there are often job transfers that send you elsewhere, so that is certainly not a place ( for many people I have known) where many root for long!

Aww I would love to see pix of your pups.. and a sherperd border mix, wow so does Sade do your taxes, that has to be one incredibly dedicated & smart dog! Pugs are soo cute too.. what a neat pair! Thank you for sharing!

We're still kinda low-tech in our household - no digital camera- so I can't post any pictures of our critters at this point. They are a cute couple, though. Sade loves to play in water, and pugs shed like manics, so we have destroyed the interiors of 2 cars to this point... the E is truly heaven-sent for dog owners, now we can't wait to go on our first camping trip.... and sponge-bucket it out afterwards!!!! :D

The resident window tinters says: Tinting your entire windsheild is ILlegal in ALL states. It is not a state law issue but rather a FEDERAL law. Tinting a windsheild is a serious offense for a window tinter to commit (can we say $10,000 fine for first violation and a conviction on your record.... you may as well get buried under the jail for a 2nd or 3rd time)

front door tint is varied from state to state ~ and if you're willing to fight in court, you almost always beat a ticket ~ the tint laws are poorly written and almost never properly enforced (i.e. citing officers almost never conduct the test properly)


If you ever have window tinting questions please check us out at http://www.findatinter.com/forum/

[quote:bb4b399297="GYPSYTDA"] when it comes to the window tint.. and I know in MD window tint (front windows) is a no-no.. some states are really strict, some are rather cool about it, [/quote:bb4b399297]

Believe it or not, the tint laws in Maryland are not that strict.. front door tint IS legal there.

here is what you're allowed to do in MD... (as of 1995)

on TRUCKS (which includes the 'E')
*Front doors... 35% or lighter (35 is PLENTY dark on fronts doors)

*Any glass behind front doors.. ANY FILM ALLOWED... i.e. LIMO IS PERMITTED

*VISOR on windsheild.. 5" strip permitted

on CARS..

*ALL side and rear windows must be 35% or lighter

*VISOR on windsheild.. 5" strip permitted


####there is a law chart available at our window tinters site http://www.findatinter.com/forum/ ~~ note that some of the laws listed are still currently not up to date.. but that will be corrected in due time ~ until then I can personally verify the laws for you

Thanks for the window tinting info from a pro. One more question: What is the rear and rear side window tinting in the factory E, percentage wise?

windowtint; thank you so much, it has been over decade since I left maryland, i just recall them being stricter so that is good news, thank you!

thank you also for the laws link... excellent THANK YOU!!!!

Gypsey, you were right as well... being that you lived there during a preceding set of laws..

BEFORE 1995, tinting the front doors WAS ILLEGAL in MD.


good memory you have.

creepy eh, yeah I have one of those types of memories, very annoying to have soo much stuff up there.

I am so glad that you have this info too.. what is the way to tell the percentage of tint on the windows of a vehicle?

Thank you again!

[quote:d92e620aa1="hugosade"]...supposedly it comes with a lifetime warranty for preventing rust....the dealer folks said that with the somewhat low ground clearance of the E, the undercarriage is vulnerable to salt, moisture, etc. Ilive in NoVa by the way, any other D.C. area E drivers out there? Maybe this is a North-South issue-if you live in Cali or Tejas it might not be worth it.[/quote:d92e620aa1]

Dealer-applied rustproofing and undercoating is not only unnecessary- it's usually harmful as well. Cars made in the last decade are much more rust resistant than those of earlier eras. Here in Detroit we apply more salt to the roads than anywhere else, and I've never met an automotive engineer who applied an afetrmarker coting to his vehicle. And they don't all drive their company's products, either ;-)

Applying these coatings often creates poskets where water and salt lodge, accelerating corrsion. And have you ever looked ta the warranty they give you with these coatings? Generally you have to have a yearly inspection by an apporved dealer, and touch-ups as necessary... oftne at your cost. I doubt anyone has every colelcted on an aftermarket warranty on these coatings.

Any dealer who pushes you towards a dealer-applied coating is untrustworthy. Period.

So, to answer your question- YES!

I have been pulled over for tint violation when I had that metalized tint and it was Virginia legal! Troopers will stop you no matter if your tint is legal or not. You do, however need to have the vehicle tinted per the state it is registered in.

dc here but i bought from fairfax honda. i was unaware of dc tint laws at the time of purchase, but when the accessories kid offered me tinting I thought it would be good for my dogs and said yes. after leaving my new e with them for the 2 day tinting process, i got her back with 35% tint on the front2. i lost her for another day while they removed the tint (but i got foglights so i'm happy). they were registering my e for me so they knew it was dc bound. i learned not to assume the dealership people always know what they're talking about when it comes to tint laws, especially in areas where multiple states are close by. one of the accessories ladies even tried to soothe my concerns by telling me that dc laws were differnt for suv's. :? i was pretty sure she was wrong so i worked around her but, this was my first new car purchase and i guess my green showed. they offered and i purchased the underbody & paint coating. since then many people have laughed (politely mostly) at my expense. i wish i had read this thread before my purchase, which was possible since the last post was before my purchase ( today is 1 month & 2200 miles later). i guess now i know better for when i trade in my '03e for the '0? hybrid v6 e i keep dreaming about.

Undercoating in the areas bordering the Great Lakes is almost a requirement for long term driving. I don't care who manufactures a vehicle domestic or import, if you don't protect it or wash it almost everyday in these regions they won't last very long. Sure there are cars out there that have nothing on them that hold up pretty good, but these are the exceptions. I see cars that are a year old with rust on them in Ohio. These are the same cars that are advertised with "galvanized sheet metal" and "zinc dipped" panels. Its all nonsense... the majority of cars in the Salt belt will rust PERIOD! This applies to Honda as well, a great example being the early 90s models. You can hardly find a non rusted out Civic, Accord earlier than a 94. Remember this part of the country is so corrosive that Tech Service Bulletins on some cars have recommended sub frame changes, rotor changes, steering component changes! Folks this is the THICK metal on a car not sheet metal, so imagine what the salt, brine,chlorides will do to your Elements after a few years! In my area the USPS, local park systems, police departments all undercoat their cars and trucks. And by the way the Better Business Bureau in Ohio recommends you metal protect your car if you live in Ohio regardless of what your car manufacturer says. Why would a car manufacturer recommend you metal protect your car? So you can stay out of the market for 12 years? Heck no! They want you back quicker than that to sell you a new car, as soon as you get disgusted upon seeing that first sign of rust

Under coating does make a vehicle somewhat quieter I can vouch for that. Had it done to a car or two where it helped greatly. Must go to a reputable place which has techs who are well trained. Hanging around outside the bay watching also helps a bit. BTW some companies who are in this service have a sound deadener which is slightly thicker that is applied over the UC to further reduce the sound.

When you travel the rules are such: Given that these are the united states, the law of your home state applies to the tinting, registration etc on your vehicle. If you transfer registration then the laws of the state you are moving to will apply.

Window tinting helps in reducing driver fatigue, load on AC, uneven tanning! etc. Have yet to do the E but generally get it done on most of my autos. Note: ride in or if they will let you drive in a car that has tinting grade of choice for a day to see if you like the amount of light it cuts back in the early mornings and late evenings. Takes some getting used to, have heard of people backing into or turning into things after just getting their machines tinted. Generally a cause of double tinting on back windows which in other autos are not always heat reflective as they are in the E. The E only needs the fronts and the sun roof tinted.

i just bought (have not yet taken possesion) an '03 EX Green - 5 speed 4WD - w/side air bags -dealer rep attempted to sell me the undercoating & paint sealant package - ($250 for 1 or $350 for both) - said that the alternative is to hose the bottom of the vehicle -- note - the wheel wheels are factory coated with black "tar" coating to prevent rust/corrosion


*******&me
located in Maryland

I have to agree with Mikeyj - as a former metallurgical engineer, its sound logic that the tar undercoating is worse than nothing. The galvanic protection of the coated steel is inhibited by the tar - makes a scratch or ding more likely to rust than if there was no tar at all

Of course, if you live on the ocean or whatever, nothing is going to help like a good rinsing.

BTW, a garage isn't a great idea in the winter either - the warmth raises the speed of chemical reactions (like corrosion), so if it's salt covered, it's almost better to leave it outside until you can rinse it (but it's difficult to climb into a cold car!)