New tires Firestone [Archive] - Honda Element Owners Club Forum

: New tires Firestone


carloso
08-16-2005, 12:08 AM
I need some help I am about to get some new tires & I would like to know if the Firestone Destination LE 225/75SR16 XL would be good for the Element all those letters get confusing. What dose the SR & the XL stand for

paulj
08-16-2005, 02:59 AM
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Firestone&model=Destination+LE

Tim Vance
08-16-2005, 07:12 AM
Near as I can tell, the letters are assigned by the marketing department of the manufacturer to confuse you. Years ago, I was an auto parts supervisor at a Canadian Tire. We were sent on training at Goodyear, and when we asked what the letters stood for, the told us what they stood for, but not what they meant. All you really need to know is that you are looking as 225 / 75 / 16 tires. Find a style and tread you like.
BTW, I wouldn't go for a 75 personally. I think those are too narrow for the E, 70 or best would be a 65. This is my opinion, and I have a tendancy to stick with what the manufacturer put on in the first place. Althought I do have a really nice set of 215/60/15's on the wife's sunfire:)

carloso
08-16-2005, 07:27 AM
What? I thought the larger the # the thicker the tire. Crap! So if I wanted a taller & wider tire than what came w/the car what would I need to get?

spdrcr5
08-16-2005, 08:17 AM
Here is the breakdown on what the name means...

Firestone Destination LE 225/75SR16 XL

Firestone - Manufacturer
Destination LE - Model
225 - Tread width in mm.
75 - sidewall height as a percentage of treadwidth. In this case the sidewall is 75% of the tread width in mm.
SR - Speed rating, this is an S Rated tire... 112mph max speed. The R could stand for Radial.
16 - Wheel diameter in inches.
XL - I don't have a clue... could be a marketing thing. It is the only XL in the lineup, there are 2 with a C instead and the rest are SL... An LT at the end would indicate "Light Truck".
106S - Load capacity/tire = 2,094lbs.

Hope that helps.

paulj
08-16-2005, 11:26 AM
The 'XL' may stand for 'extra load'. Most of the other sizes in the spec table are 'SL' 'standard load'?. The 225/75/16 size often is available in two load ratings. The higher load rated version probably has extra belts so it can take higher pressures, and higher loads at those pressures. Note the 50psi max in the spec table.

You don't need the higher load rating for an Element. I don't know about the down side to going with the higher load rating. They may cost more, weigh more, be stiffer or rougher riding.

'narrow' isn't the term I'd use for the 75 profile tires. Their widest width, 225, is larger than stock, though less than the 235/70/16 size. With some models the 225/75/16 has a narrower tread than the neighboring sizes, because there is more taper from the wide point to the tread. However only a few manufacturer's list a tread width, so I can't say what the case is for this tire. It certainly is going to be wider than stock tires, which have a relatively narrow (and rounded) tread.

Taking another look at the spec table, Firestone does list tread width - for all sizes but this. I would expect the width for this size to similar, or a bit less, than the width for the 225/70/16 size. A slightly narrower tread width in the 225/75/16 is not a bad thing. If you are pushing the tire diameter limit (this is close to the largest anyone has put on an Element), a narrower tread width gives a bit better clearance.

Also maximizing tread width makes some sense if you want to improve dry traction and cornering. But with a 75 profile tire, you are reducing corner handling because there is more tire to flex. As the load rating suggests, 225/75/16 is more of a (non-sport) truck tire, where tall, and narrow is common. Also the selection of 'mud' tires is better in this size.

235/70/16 is a more common size upgrade for the Element. A search might even turn up people with this tire in that size.

What is your driving style?

paulj

plamlam
08-16-2005, 03:36 PM
235/70/16?

Has there been any report of rubbing at that size?

plamlam
08-16-2005, 03:40 PM
235/70/16?

Has there been any report of rubbing at that size?

I thought 225/75/16 was the typical size up that most people have gone with.

paulj
08-16-2005, 03:40 PM
There have been mixed reports about rubbing of 235/70/16 tires with aggressive, square shoulders (e.g. BFG TA KO). But most have reported no problems.

paulj

hownowcb
08-16-2005, 07:22 PM
Every company is entitled to a mistake or two, but Firestone has had two major, massive recalls in my tire-buying lifetime. The first was back in the 70's on their 721 model. Every single tire was recalled. It was the worst tire ever manufactured. Their last recall is associated with Ford Explorer rollover fatalities from tread separation, due, I seem to recall, from underinflation, both intended and unintended.

You could not make me buy a Firestone tire with a gun to my head. Make your own choice. But there are hundreds of better tire manufacturers out there than Firestone.

spdrcr5
08-16-2005, 09:08 PM
Nope, you got the Firestone model wrong. The 721 was never recalled. The Firestone 500 was recalled. I know this from first hand experience. My family was coming home from a month in the Adirondacks when all 4 tires failed. This was in the early 70's, 72-74.

The Firestone 721 didn't come out until the late 80's or early 90's.

Every company is entitled to a mistake or two, but Firestone has had two major, massive recalls in my tire-buying lifetime. The first was back in the 70's on their 721 model. Every single tire was recalled. It was the worst tire ever manufactured. Their last recall is associated with Ford Explorer rollover fatalities from tread separation, due, I seem to recall, from underinflation, both intended and unintended.

You could not make me buy a Firestone tire with a gun to my head. Make your own choice. But there are hundreds of better tire manufacturers out there than Firestone.

paulj
08-16-2005, 09:09 PM
By the way, a search on 'firestone' will turn up a number of tire threads. The Destination LE came in about in the middle in the CR tests last fall. According some notes I collected a while back, a couple of people have reported on this tire in the 225/70/16 size.

paulj

Honu
08-16-2005, 11:34 PM
Firestone used any trust I had with two major recalls, and no signs of trying to make up for it. Maybe they will improve now, or maybe they will just keep putting out whatever they can get away with.

I personally don't feel comfortable taking the gamble considering the Firestone track record.

Genom
08-16-2005, 11:47 PM
Not to add fuel to the fire, but it seems that it was the Firestone 500 which was recalled. The mention of the 721 brought back memories as a kid watching the commercials "Seven, around two, wrapped by one." was the slogan for the new belt design.

OK, enough of that...here's a web page about the Firestone 500. (http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/index.cfm?fa=viewfeature&id=232)

Tim Vance
08-16-2005, 11:55 PM
As has already been pointed out, Firestone doesn't have that great a reputation, and is(was?) stock on Fords. Goodyear comes stock on the E. Why would you trade up to stock tires?
Granted there are 'upgrade' styles but as has been already stated, there are superior makes available, at good prices.
I replaced my front 2 with Bridgestone when I blew a tire on a pothole. I've had really good results with Michelin in the past. Our Sunfire has over 160k km on the set on it.
Search the boards and you'll see what other members are going with, and the feedback they've given.
And if you still want to go with Firestone, it's your ride, do what your comfortable with:)

paulj
08-17-2005, 01:04 AM
However, 'firestone' is now ' Bridgestone Firestone North American Tire, LLC', selling tires under 3 labels, Bridgestone, Firestone, and Dayton.

The Bridgestone Dueler A/T REVO (with UNI-T AQii) is one the best tires for the Element (right Empire?).

You can compare for yourself the features of the REVO with the features of the Destination LE (with UNI-T) at
http://www.bridgestone-usa.com/tireselector/index_bs.asp
While there, also look at the Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza if you want a Bridgestone in the 'highway all season' category. That currently is top in the tirerack.com customer survey for this category (the LE is #4). At the same time, there are Bridgestone and Firestone models that lower in the tirerack survey than the GY Wrangler HPs (while GY Fortera HL is #9, #1 in CR's ratings). http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=HAS

So I don't buy the argument the the LE is a bad tire choice because Firestone had a couple of high publicizied recalls.

Someone mentioned that Firestone provides stock tires. So does Bridgestone (and Yokohama also, for Subaru). Is the Destination LE stock on any car? I know my neighbor has stock Wilderness LEs on his Tahoe. So the 'stock' argument doesn't fly either.


paulj

carloso
08-17-2005, 04:10 AM
I guess my driving style would be mostly city driving, rarely go over 85. I know I want a beefier looking tire. I want some thing wider, then taller if I can but I don’t mind the height of the E. I am about ready to go with about any suggestion at this point.

lwclancers
08-17-2005, 07:56 AM
However, 'firestone' is now ' Bridgestone Firestone North American Tire, LLC', selling tires under 3 labels, Bridgestone, Firestone, and Dayton.

The Bridgestone Dueler A/T REVO (with UNI-T AQii) is one the best tires for the Element (right Empire?).

You can compare for yourself the features of the REVO with the features of the Destination LE (with UNI-T) at
http://www.bridgestone-usa.com/tireselector/index_bs.asp
While there, also look at the Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza if you want a Bridgestone in the 'highway all season' category. That currently is top in the tirerack.com customer survey for this category (the LE is #4). At the same time, there are Bridgestone and Firestone models that lower in the tirerack survey than the GY Wrangler HPs (while GY Fortera HL is #9, #1 in CR's ratings). http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=HAS

So I don't buy the argument the the LE is a bad tire choice because Firestone had a couple of high publicizied recalls.

Someone mentioned that Firestone provides stock tires. So does Bridgestone (and Yokohama also, for Subaru). Is the Destination LE stock on any car? I know my neighbor has stock Wilderness LEs on his Tahoe. So the 'stock' argument doesn't fly either.


paulj
Good call. When I bought my REVOs for my E I also bought Firestones (the Destinations A/Ts not the LEs) for my wife's Envoy. So far those Firestones have been fantastic!
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Firestone&tireModel=Destination+A%2FT&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=465SR7DESTATOWL&fromCompare1=yes&place=0

These were relatively new at the time, but all the reviews were really good.

Imamonkey
08-17-2005, 08:48 AM
Every company is entitled to a mistake or two, but Firestone has had two major, massive recalls in my tire-buying lifetime. The first was back in the 70's on their 721 model. Every single tire was recalled. It was the worst tire ever manufactured. Their last recall is associated with Ford Explorer rollover fatalities from tread separation, due, I seem to recall, from underinflation, both intended and unintended.

You could not make me buy a Firestone tire with a gun to my head. Make your own choice. But there are hundreds of better tire manufacturers out there than Firestone.

I tend to agree with your sentiments. Firestone has proven itself to be an irresponsible company on more than one occasion. But, then, so has Ford. The Ford Pinto--did Ford ever take responsibility for that murder box? Nope. And then there's the Explorer. Sure, you can blame Firestone, but you have to also blame Ford. The two companies worked together to determine the "proper" load, capacity, behavior, and inflation rate of the tires, given the automobile.

Anyway, I had a very good experience with a Bridgestone tire (same company as Firestone) a few years back, after the Explorer debacle. I upgraded my Passat P.O.S. Goodyear Eagles to a set of Bridgestones. I think they were called something like "Turenza." They were a great balance between performance and snow traction. They also wore very well. I can't wait to upgrade my Element tires. It is strange to me that companies like VW and Honda would make a wonderful vehicle and then slap crappy tires on it. I don't really get it. I mean, I get the cost savings, but think about what you are doing to your own word-of-mouth marketing. With my passat, I had gone from a Jetta to the Passat, and was amazed to find after a few months that I missed my Jetta's handling. But, the Jetta had Michelin Energy tires, and the Passat had the awful Eagles. After switching, the Passat handled SO MUCH better.

carloso
08-21-2005, 11:07 PM
I ordered 235/70SR16 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 from tire rack & they sent me this

“The tire size requested is taller than recommended for the stated vehicle. This additional height could cause interference and/or calibration issues. Please confirm sizing or advise if you wish to amend to recommended size. Processing is being held pending your response. Thank you.
Regards, Kurt 800-428-8355”

Should I continue with the purchase? I also wanted to confirm that I ordered the correct size with you guys :?

lwclancers
08-22-2005, 09:02 AM
I ordered 235/70SR16 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 from tire rack & they sent me this

“The tire size requested is taller than recommended for the stated vehicle. This additional height could cause interference and/or calibration issues. Please confirm sizing or advise if you wish to amend to recommended size. Processing is being held pending your response. Thank you.
Regards, Kurt 800-428-8355”

Should I continue with the purchase? I also wanted to confirm that I ordered the correct size with you guys :?
My REVOs were that size and fit fine, however each model has a different tread design which COULD (or could NOT) interfere. I never got that message from tirerack when I ordered mine, but maybe they are starting to send that message out as a basic disclaimer...meaning it MAY not be specific for you case. I would just call them and ask.

chimphappyhour
08-22-2005, 06:27 PM
The tire in question in the second recall was the Firestone Wilderness AT. I truly believe that it wasn't necessarily Firestone's fault.

On a trip from Kansas City to Ouray, Co. to do some ice climbing, I stopped at Salina, KS for gas on my way out. I had a 98 Nissan Frontier then. Coming out of the gas station, I saw what looked like a dime stuck to the tread of the tire. Upon closer inspection, it looked like a nail, it had a smooth flat head.

I checked the pressure, it was a little low at 28psi so I put more air in it, up to 35psi. It was late at night, middle of Kansas and I was itching to get out west, so I decided I'd drive a couple of hours and check the pressure. Sure enough, at the next stop it was 28psi again. I drove another couple of hours and checked it again, 28psi, it had stabilized. Every stop I made, it read the same.

I finished the trip and drove another couple of weeks until I had the time to get it plugged. I went in, told them I had a nail. When they were done, they brought out a hefty screw with its top worn smooth from a lot of road miles. So, when I had spotted it, it had already been in long enough.

Turns out, the recall comes about a while later. It is the exact batch that I had. When I went in for my replacements, they listed off my choices, I asked for another set of Wilderness AT's and got 'em.

When I started reading on here about all the problems with the GYs, I went searching for the Wilderness AT's again, but obviously, the bad press has made them unobtainium. Sadly, I don't think Firestone makes a comprable replacement, they were a tough tire. Give me a set of AT's over the Goodyears anyday!

When I look at the Ford Explorers around here (and KC is definitely a Ford town, I live about five miles from the plant), I'd have to say more than 50% are not exactly what I'd call well looked after. Actually, often when I'm driving around, I see a lot of people with low tires, bulging tires and ones with little tread.

carloso
08-27-2005, 11:51 PM
Well I received my tires & they fit fine but I cant say I like the way they ride. It feels a little sloppy. They look better though. I don’t have a digital camera or I would post some pictures

paulj
08-27-2005, 11:59 PM
Well I received my tires & they fit fine but I cant say I like the way they ride. It feels a little sloppy.


Read tirerack's technote on breaking in your tires:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=5

Don't be surprised if your new tires are a little slower to respond (even if you use the exact same tire as before). Their new, full depth brings with it a little more tread squirm until they wear down.

Also if the new tires have larger diameter, you have more rubber between the wheel and the ground. Higher sidewalls allow more flex; thick of trying to deform a parallelogram.

paulj

SteveO
08-29-2005, 12:39 AM
Not to add fuel to the fire, but it seems that it was the Firestone 500 which was recalled. The mention of the 721 brought back memories as a kid watching the commercials "Seven, around two, wrapped by one." was the slogan for the new belt design.

OK, enough of that...here's a web page about the

Genom, that is the first thing that came to my mind, too. But I work in advertising so all those ads are burned into my brain. (What's your excuse? :wink: ) As I recall, the line was "Seven, SURROUNDED by two, wrapped by one," (you were DANG close, though!) and I want to say it was James Earl Jones or a rip doing the VO for it. That was a cool ad for its time. Remember the graphics they had for it -- animated tire diagrams with the materials wrapping around the tire as the VO talked? I believe it was late '70s or very early '80s when this ad came out.

That also makes me think of those animated spots for Levi's jeans that showed the pair of jeans moving through the solar system or whatever. Between those two ads I think we can say our pop culture was hooked on Star Wars! :smile:

Everyone else, FWIW, I had a set of Bridgestone RE30s on my '93 Dodge Stealth for nearly 65-70k (I believe these were only a 60k tire). When I sold the Stealth (I still miss her, but my S2K makes up for that!), they were not in bad shape, but they were NEARLY ready for replacement. I rotated them every oil change -- 3k miles -- and regularly checked psi, and the batmobile felt like it rode on rails. I have done some reading on the Explorer mishaps, and I also believe a lot of this is Ford's fault. Those older Exploders were bigtime rollover boxes, likely aggravated by ignorant drivers not taking proper care of their tires. If you look up Bronco II and Explorer and read the history, you'll likely deduce that Ford quit making the Bronc II due to rollover issues. Basically the Explorer was the rebadged BII. Small wonder they continued to have safety issues.

I'm not saying FS didn't cut corners (most OEMs do to keep profit high, just look at our pos GY stockers), but I lay most of that blame on Ford.

Edit: Well, I just did some more searching and reading, and after that I'm not quite sure what to think about FS tires. Granted, what I read was clearly one-sided against the FS/Explorer tires in question, but whatever, right? Everyone is biased to some degree, myself included. All I know is I had a great experience with my B-Stones and would throw that brand into the mix again. Which will be mixing soon as I need new tires right now!

lenandella
09-17-2005, 08:47 PM
I put Destination LE's on my daughter's Jeep Cherokee and they are terrific in Summer and Winter. The original BF Goodrich tires were quite possibly the worst tires I've ever experienced on a car. The LE's were 235/70-15 and I got them at a local Firestone dealer for $76.00 a pop. Give Firestone a break; if people checked their tire pressures like they should, they might experience a few less problems. They're the only thing that connects you to the road so PAY ATTENTION! Sorry for the rant, where's the Tylenol?

deckeda
09-19-2005, 12:17 AM
Quick reminder about the Firestones that killed Explorer passengers a few years back.

Underinflation was only part of it. I recall reading that some employees at one plant were tossing (or told to toss) all sorts of crap into the mix for those tires --- the tires literally contained trash embedded in the rubber ...

But that was only one tire at one plant; the other Firestones and none of the Bridgestones were never affected.

Sure Bridgestone and Ford both behaved badly and had a public pissing contest aimed at each other but that's old news.