Washer fluid pump failure, front & back [Archive] - Honda Element Owners Club Forum

: Washer fluid pump failure, front & back


snbharathi
08-20-2005, 09:51 AM
Hi,

My 2003 Element EX front washer fluid pump has failed three times in the past two and half years. There was no problem with the rear pump. Has anyone faced similar problem? Eventhough he dealer has replaced the pump free of charge, I still feel frustated. Any input or feedback is appreciated.

snbharathi

Ranger
08-24-2005, 01:16 PM
That's a new one on me.
A few questions though...

How often do you use it?

Do you run out of fluid often?

Do you often find yourself trying to use it when it is out of fluid?


The reason I ask is prolonged use without fluid in the system can damage the pump.
(Like holding the lever when your pretty much out of fluid trying to squeeze every last drop out of it.)

Two Wheeler
09-15-2005, 06:31 PM
The front washer doesn't work - can't hear the pump or anything when I hit the switch. The back one works fine - isn't it the same pump? I thought it was, and if it were that would mean the fault was in the switch itself, no?

marky
09-15-2005, 09:50 PM
Nope, separate pumps. And the fuse that handles it also handles the wipers. So if the wipers work, and there is no sound from the pump... the pump is probably toast. Dealer time.

lizzurd
11-27-2005, 08:00 AM
Heres another thread with pics of the front cover removed.....

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18881

ramblerdan
04-09-2006, 09:47 PM
Remove the front fascia, and you'll find it. If you plan to do your own maintenance, the Service Manual (http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result.asp?Style=&Mfg=AHM&Make=AHM&Model=ELEM&Year=2004&Category=1&Keyword=&Module=&mscsid=XH17U7D4DV0W9JARKEFL2M57XKM1FTNA) explains all.


http://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/e/eoc/windshield_washer.gif (http://www.hondapartsnow.com/Page_Product/PartDetail.aspx?catalogID=62&productID=15&yearID=35&doorID=3&gradeID=769&areaID=2&transmissionID=3&originID=-1&colorLabelIDs=-1&colorLabelID=-1&sectionID=&idAndImageID=11086%201246710&isBigPicture=true#partlist)

fishlee
07-08-2006, 05:20 PM
The windshield wiper motor and the winshield washer share the same fuse 20A. if the windshield wipers work than there should be power to the windshield washer motor. it's fuse #20 under the dash.

Stormgod
07-09-2006, 01:24 PM
It appears that the washer motor is toast. I have ordered an exact replacement from Advance Auto for $20. If they stock this thing for a model that is only 3 years old, then I know that there is a problem nationwide with the squirty motor. Each day I become more and more dissatisfied with Honda. I am now in the market to replace two other cars in my family and honda in not even in the running. Damn shame. After the $1200 brake job at 50,000 miles, my next car will probably be a Plymouth Town & Country Van.

Edselhead
01-12-2007, 02:42 PM
Have many owners had a problem with the front windshield washer pump failing? Ours needed to be replaced at 66,000 miles and no it did not freeze up. Cost of replacement= labor & parts - $ 134.35

MikeQBF
01-12-2007, 05:46 PM
Cost of replacement= labor & parts - $ 134.35
Truthfully? And not being a smart-ass here... but if you're going to take the vehicle to the dealer for minor repairs like this, you had better be prepared to pay the price. I can buy that pump for $30 and replace it about a half-hour, most of which is removing/installing the front right wheel-well liner.

Dealer service of any kind is expensive. Two recent first-hand experiences:

I had just replaced the clutch on our Miata. Shortly afterwards, the starter became intermittent. I had injured a hand (also afterwards), so took it (the Miata) to the Mazda dealer to investigate. They found (and fixed) nothing, yet charged me $100. Back home, 10 minutes with a mirror and flashlight found a loose nut on the main cable lug. Fixed. With one hand.

The state I used to live in required vehicle inspections. I took my Explorer to the dealer, and they found that the high-beam indicator in the dash was burned out. They offered to fix it (and pass my inspection) for $125. It was a 15-minute job to pull the dash cluster, and the bulb was 89.

A couple of lessons here. The primary one is that stuff fails, and little stuff like a windshield washer pump is going to be an early failure, I don't care what make of car it is. The second is that if you're not mechanically-inclined, take the minor repairs to the corner mechanic, who in this case would have charged probably $60-75.

lizzurd
01-26-2007, 02:54 PM
THis is the best i could come up with.Basically you have to pull back the passenger side inner fender to get to the pump.

1fastvx
01-26-2007, 03:05 PM
You know I was wondering if you had to take the bumper off. By accessing this through the wheel well it should take tyou like 20 minutes. It souns like the dealer was ripping you off!

PS...You might want to change the wiper fluid brand. Maybe something in that one is eating up something in the motor.

John

Drop_Box
01-31-2007, 12:58 AM
Just changed my front wiper motor tonight. I pulled the front nose off to do mine which only took about 10min. to pull and about 30-35 min to change motor, and 10 to put nose back on......I was taking my time too.

I didn't drain the fluid before just had a catch pan underneath so when I pulled the motor off the washer fluid wouldn't spill everywhere. It's very easy to do and took me total of an hour.....wouldn't see this taking more than 30 min. for a dealership to do.....so anything over 30-60min. of work I think they're taking advantage of you. But then again it's so easy I think everyone could do this themselves. :D

Before I put everthing back together I tested the motor to make sure it worked and the problem wasn't electrical. You also have to make sure to pull the rubber gasket off the old motor and put it on the new one. I will say taking off the front nose makes this a no-brainer....very easy access! :D

Drop_Box
02-02-2007, 09:25 PM
Yeah why pay 5-6 times the money for something you can do yourself. As long as you have a garage to put it in (if you live in the cold) you can easily do this yourself in about an hour.

Also if you go to the dealer mine as been good about matching the prices that majestic has. I usually just print out their price and take it in....they've matched everything or have come very close to it. :D

Mark C
02-06-2007, 08:17 AM
Find a place to park indoors for an hour or two. You'll find that the antifreeze fluid has evaporated and there is an ice blockage, possibily at the nozzles end. Methinks it has been very cold these last few days? Besides, that 20° fliud at WalMart is not a precision mix for .$94, and I'll wager there is much variablity.

Drop_Box
02-06-2007, 04:28 PM
Mark may be right it may just be froze up. It's been below zero here with the windchill around -25 :shock:

You don't have to be mechanically inclined to do this fix....Lord knows I'm not the most inclined myself :rolleyes: If it is out, you can order the part from Majestichonda.com and save yourself the trip. And my 03's nose may have never been removed and I didn't break any clips at all....only chipped a couple on the bottom but they were still usable. Some of the bottom clips I didn't even remove (center ones), just folded the nose down to work on the washer motor and folded it back up.

Whatever the case may be good luck :D

Drop_Box
02-06-2007, 11:17 PM
If you can hear your pump working then it's probably within the tubing. Either they are plugged or not connect tight enough to create a seal.

There are two motor pumps one for the front and one for the back window.

part16john
02-09-2007, 07:44 PM
has anyone got the part from rockauto it seems they have them for pretty cheap. It seems like the rear has failed as well because that is not working either. I have a full tank of fluid but still nothing. I have a grill guard and really would like to not have to pull that off and the front off as well is there any other way to get to this SOB? It seems I also have the dreaded rear differential issue as well. I have a 2004 Element with 50000. Thanks for you help!

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1425530,parttype,8840,partGroup,35

IRV
02-11-2007, 03:17 PM
I looked through manual but couldn't find which fuse it is. Can anyone point me in the right direction.Thanks!

ramblerdan's site (available through his signature) is invaluable.

Info is here.
http://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/e/udfrb.htm

withE
01-24-2008, 04:22 PM
My pump didn't fail but... It was snowy out and I was pulling into my street having a conversation with a passenger in my vehicle, and admittedly not paying enough attention to the road. I was going maybe 20 mph taking the corner a little too tight when I rubbed against the snowy bank on the right. When I say rubbed, I mean ever so slightly rubbed, not a thump or direct hit, a slight rub. I pulled into the driveway and got out to see the windshield washer fluid draining all over the driveway. I had initially thought I crimped the plastic reservoir causing it to crack. I later found out that it was in fact the pump. Cost of the pump $75, labor $100. Funny thing, the reservoir part cost was $120, lucky for me I guess.

The service technician told me that the pump is located about a 1/2 inch from the front bumper so it literally doesn't take much to damage it. I remarked, that's well built. The tech said, yeah, no comment on that one.

spdrcr5
02-19-2008, 08:21 AM
I thought I was out of washer fluid so I filled it last week and the washer spray still isn't working for the front wipers. The rear wiper spray works just fine. So my guess is there are two pumps. Is there a separate fuse for the front washer fluid motor? Or could the motor itself be broken?

I don't see any leaks coming from the system, nothing seems clogged I checked the hoses and they are all pliable and I didn't feel anything clogged. Any ideas on what I should be checking?

If I need to I will bring it to the dealer for them to diagnose and repair.

Thanks.

ApriliaGuy
02-19-2008, 08:28 AM
If I need to I will bring it to the dealer for them to diagnose and repair.


Do you hear the pump when you activate the switch? Pump failures seem fairly common. (I don't think there is a seperate fuse)

It is easy to access the tank and pump by taking the front bumper cover off. You can also go in thru the inner fender cover.

I remember reading several times that the dealer fix was expensive, but parts prices are reasonable.

Good luck.

Will

ORANGEE
02-19-2008, 08:32 AM
Larry,
My lines clogged up on me (like you they didn't appear to be) - the dealer blew out the lines with air - all is fine now
If it's the pumps, let us know costs etc.

-O

HONDA GHANDI
02-19-2008, 09:09 AM
If the pump is running its possible to have clogged lines or sprayers. The sprayers get a little gunk built up on them and clog all the time. Unhook the hose under the hood somwhere and use a small amount of compressed air to see if the lines are clear. Dont use air in the lines backwards to the tank though. It sometimes pops the hose off at the motor and makes a mess on your floor. :D

spdrcr5
02-19-2008, 09:16 AM
Oops, I forgot to mention the part about not hearing the pump making any noise. That's why I was wondering if there was a fuse that could have blown. I have the shop manual but had been away all weekend and didn't have a chance to check it.

I have never had to replace a washer pump before, even on my Nissan truck that I put close to 250,000 miles on.

The cost on Majestic is only $47 and it looks like it might be fairly easy to access if that is the issue. It's Part #31 in the image below. If the line is indeed clogged I don't have access to compressed air and would have to rely on the dealer to do that for me. But I'd like to know going in that that's the issue.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/catimgs/14SCV0_B15.gif

protaganis
02-19-2008, 09:48 AM
If I recall correctly, the Windshield wipers and the washer pumps are all on the same fuse. If the wipers are sweeping, the fuse is okay. What temp is it in your area and what WW fluid are you using? If you're using the blue stuff, it's probably gelled do to the cold. It's only good to about 30-32 degrees. If that's the case, when it warms up and the pump works, purge the blue and put in some Prestone or Rain-X DeIcer formula, it's good down to about -30.
NOTE:The WW Fluid may have gelled in the line, so your pump might run, but no fluid comes out the nozzle.

ApriliaGuy
02-19-2008, 11:08 AM
I have never had to replace a washer pump before, even on my Nissan truck that I put close to 250,000 miles on.

The cost on Majestic is only $47 and it looks like it might be fairly easy to access if that is the issue. It's Part #31 in the image below. If the line is indeed clogged I don't have access to compressed air and would have to rely on the dealer to do that for me. But I'd like to know going in that that's the issue.



That's what everybody else that has the pump die on them says..."I've never had to replace one in 200k miles!"
I've only replaced 2 pumps in my entire life....both were on old cars and rusted up really bad.


Here's my ol' skool no tool methods for diagnosis....

If you think the line is clogged, disconect the hose at some point (closer to the tank is best) and hit the washer switch...fluid squirting out under the hood/engine compartment means the pump is ok. :wink:

Step by step version to pin point the problem:

(start at the hood and work your way down to the tank)

Disconect the washer line under the hood and blow thru it (towards windsheild). You'll hear a little noise at the wipers I bet. (Unless you're a long time smoker, you won't need compressed air to hear a bit of air coming out)

Now you can disconect the other end of the line at the tank (pull inner fender) and blow thru that....I'm guessing you'll hear air.

While you're head is stuffed up in there, make sure the tank isn't frozen. Assuming it ain't, have someone hit the switch for the pump...if it dosen't run, unless the wiring/power/switch is bad, your pump is kaput.
(And considering the number of pumps i heard about failing on the EOC...it's prolly the pump.) If you suspect the pump, you can check for sure, by checking for power at the wires that run into it w/ a simple test light/multi-meter. If there is voltage there, but it won't run, it is the pump for sure. (you can prolly figure out a way to check for power at the pump by just reaching in there, but you might as well just remove the stuff in your way)

Good luck.

Will

spdrcr5
02-19-2008, 11:18 AM
If I recall correctly, the Windshield wipers and the washer pumps are all on the same fuse. If the wipers are sweeping, the fuse is okay. What temp is it in your area and what WW fluid are you using? If you're using the blue stuff, it's probably gelled do to the cold. It's only good to about 30-32 degrees. If that's the case, when it warms up and the pump works, purge the blue and put in some Prestone or Rain-X DeIcer formula, it's good down to about -30.
NOTE:The WW Fluid may have gelled in the line, so your pump might run, but no fluid comes out the nozzle.

Temp wasn't an issue, it was almost 60 here yesterday and it still wasn't working.

That's what everybody else that has the pump die on them says..."I've never had to replace one in 200k miles!" I've only replaced 2 pumps in my entire life....both were on old cars and rusted up really bad.

Here's my ol' skool no tool methods for diagnosis....

Disconect the washer line under the hood and blow thru it (towards windsheild). You'll hear a little noise at the wipers I bet. (Unless you're a long time smoker you won't need compressed air to hear a bit of air coming out)

Now you can disconect the other end of the line at the tank (pull inner fender) and blow thru that....I'm guessing you'll hear air.

While you're head is in there have someone hit the switch for the pump...if it dosen't run, unless the wiring is bad your pump is kaput.

If you think the line is clogged, disconect the hose at some point (closer to the tank is best) and hit the washer switch...fluid squirting out under the hood means the pump is ok. :wink:


Will

Makes sense. I will see if I can do this after work. I'll even see how the hoses are connected and maybe tackle this during lunch today. If it doesn't require pliers or anything like that to disconnect the hose then I can check it now. If it's clear then I will order a new pump and then install it this weekend.

I will update this in about 90 minutes.

Thanks.

protaganis
02-24-2008, 10:11 PM
I'd watch out on a snap judgment that the unit is burned out. I couldn't hear any sound coming from mine either, for almost a week. Once the weather warmed up a few degrees, I tried it again and bingo the WW fluid was spraying again. Seems like most fluids gel or freeze because the % alcohol is too low. Specially if you use the blue stuff. If it thaws out, purge the tank and fill it with the prestone or Rain- X deicer. The "Splash" brand deicer formula is supposedly rated to -25 but I've had it freeze at 5 above.

lizzurd
02-25-2008, 08:27 AM
Larry before you pull off the front bumper take a look at this. The manual shows you can get to the washer pump by just pulling down the inner fender.

spdrcr5
02-25-2008, 08:39 AM
Thanks Adrian, I was planning on trying the liner trick to see if that would do it or not.

I just placed the order for the pump as well as Washer Tank bushing and gasket. The last two items are item #'s 6 and 17. I ordered these just in case I need them. For a few dollars I thought they would be worth getting as well.

ctbale
02-25-2008, 12:48 PM
napa has them for under $20

Item#: BK 6651603

I hope they dont use the same supplier as honda ;)

mid"E"
02-27-2008, 10:47 AM
Just had my pump replaced yesterday,it was definetely pooched but managed to get it replaced under warranty.I watched the tech get to the pump by removing the inner wheel well liner like Adrian said and the whole job shouldn't take any DIY's more than an hour or so it looked fairly straightforward.
Now i have juice again,i was getting sick of following the snowplows and having a dirty windshield.

udoug
03-02-2008, 11:56 PM
Hey,

Didn't read whole post, but tail end suggests this may not have been tried...

I had run out of fluid one day so I picked up some more, but found I wasn't getting any fluid to come up still... thinking I had a bad washer motor or blown fuse, i checked the fuse first. Then I thought about the possibility that either gunk from the bottom of the washer fluid resivoir was clogging the pump. So I disconnected the hose and blew till I head some bubbles (I think I heard bubbles and could generate enough with my own lung capactiy... it was awhile back). I didn't want to spray compressed air in fear that I'd blow a hose off.

Then I considered that perhaps the pump just needed to be primed. It's like a fish tank filter... without some water to start the process, the pump can't "suck".

I got some water in there and suddenly my washer fluid was working again....

Here's what to do:

Get some water into your resivoir if there isn't already, then disconnect the hose from the nozzle underneath the hood, then squirt some washer fluid back down the hose with a spray bottle. Spray quite a bit.

Then try it, it might just work.

spdrcr5
03-03-2008, 04:58 PM
I finally had the time, daylight and temperature to tackle this repair! yeah. :)

First things first... I didn't take any pictures. Second, this can't be done by only removing the wheel liner.

What I did was loosen the wheel liner and remove all of the fasteners on the passenger side. I removed all of the clips from the top and half the bottom. This allowed me to create enough room to work so I could actually reach in and remove the old broken pump.

** Warning contained below **

Don't do what I did and pull the old pump if the reservoir is filled with 1.25 gallons of washer fluid, it will actually spill all over you, the street and your tools! lol

End warning

Once the fluid was all done pouring out I was able to more easily swap out the 2 pumps. I am glad I purchased the new gasket for the pump as the old one was stuck to the old pump and wasn't worth the hassle of removing. I pressed in the gasket into the reservoir tank then pressed in the new pump. I then connected the 1/8" hose that leads to the windshield sprayers. Connected the clip for the electrical connection. Poured in about 2" worth of washer fluid to check for leaks.

Turned the E on and with the wipers flipped up off the windshield I tried the sprayer... IT WORKED!!

I never tried blowing through the hose to see if something was clogging it or anything like that. Once I disconnected that little hose the fluid began pouring out of the pump too! lol I figured it was just as easy to replace the pump and see if that did the trick. In my case it did.

Hope this helps someone else with the same issue. :)

Thanks for the help and suggestions everyone.

KAYAKRACER
03-24-2008, 08:50 AM
Hey guys, my washer pump went out last month also. Tried all the tricks, no luck getting it to come back to life. I pulled the front cover and removed the tank after draining it. The rear washer pump is located on the back side of the tank and it is actually the exact same part as the front one. I just swapped the two pumps and the front one works great now. I do not ever recall using the rear washer in 3 years so I probably won't miss having it operational. Just a note for those fellow E owners on a tight budget like me!

lizzurd
04-05-2008, 06:48 PM
Well, Bump!

Mine died today, Massachusetts, 50 degrees....Sunday am I will try blowing our the lines and see what happens....How do you take the front bumper off to access the pump?

Thanks,

Ken

Ken page 2 of this pdf for the fog light install shows all the clips,bolts and screws that you have to remove to pull the front cover off.

http://www.handa-accessories.com/element/elementfogs.pdf

djwak59
04-20-2008, 09:55 PM
Hi everybody,

Last week, my front windshield washer pump went out on me. A bit of a hassle but not too bad I guess, considering it's the first time in 101,000 miles !

Anyway, I come to the EOC site, do a little searching, and find what I need to know before I attempt the DIY. First off, there are many threads regarding this topic, some a little more accurate than others. After reading a few threads and checking out some front bumper removal pics, I decided I would do it myself.

I just did the job today, it took maybe an hour at the longest. And I didn't break a single snap fastener either !

I read one or two posts saying you don't have to remove the front bumper, but that you can get to the pump by loosening the wheel well lining. I'm 5'7", 170 lbs. and have small hands and I couldn't get to it that way. Really, I can't see, after doing the repair, how ANYBODY could replace the pump that way. So, I took the front bumper off.

If you're looking to do the removal of the bumper, run a search and pull up the fog light installation pictures, there's a real good illustration of the process there. There are at least 10 or more snap fasteners you have to remove, and 6 screws. 4 screws are under the car, and 1 in each wheel well. I think you'll need a 10mm and a 6mm socket, I can't remember for sure of the size.

As far as removing the snap fasteners goes, my best advice is to take your time ! Use a small flat screwdriver to pop the middle up, then work the whole thing back and forth until it comes free. These things are known to break kinda easily, and they're not too cheap, about $3.00 a piece ! They don't work too well broken either.

Now, here's the best inside tip I think I can give ya if you're gonna do this repair. You really DON'T have to take the bumper completely OFF the car. I almost did this when I realized that, UNDER the car, there are 4 snap fasteners that actually HINGE the the bumper to the frame so that the bumper swings down ! I was able to work around it, and the bumper didn't get in my way during the job. I just put a piece of cardboard on the driveway to protect the bumpers' surface. I think it also made it easier for me to get everything to line up again when I was finished. I could see this as being pretty handy if you had the car up on a lift working on the radiator or condensor. I don't know if Honda designed this on purpose or not.

Once I had the front off, the repair was super easy. Drain the washer tank, literally pull out the old pump ( it's just a press fit ! ) press in the new one with the new gasket, and connect the water hose and wiring harness. That's it ! When I went to test it, at first I wasn't getting anything out of the nozzles, there must have been a big air gap in the line. After a while, I had washer fluid spraying !

A few more things. You might want to replace BOTH pumps while you got the front off, the rear washer pump is located BEHIND the washer tank. You'll have to remove the washer tank from the frame to get to it. I probably should have done this but, oh well ! I decided NOT to buy the Honda pump, my dealer wanted $78.00 for one ! I bought one from a local parts store for $25.00 ! The only difference I can SEE on the pump I bought, is that it doesn't have the locking clip for the wiring harness to lock on to. I also see I should invest in a grill screen for my condensor !

Just by chance, if you need to replace your horn, it's located on the drivers side in almost the same position as the washer tank. You'll have to take off the bumper to get to IT too !

I hope this post might be of help to someone who's thinking of doing this themselves and saving some cash. My advice, read a few posts from other members, get to know a little bit of what you're going to attempt, and just jump in. I have a few pictures of the job (always helpful ), I'll try to post them as soon as I crop them down to size.

See ya !

ElementinRI
04-22-2008, 07:22 PM
My washer pump also quit working. So on saturday i pulled off the front "bumper". I also had to replace one broken fog light. I bought a new
washer pump from AutoZone for $18.00. When i got the bumper off i checked the front pump and noticed it was covered in a greasy sand mixture. So i cleaned it off with some WD-40 reattached the connector then tested the pump and it worked fine. I didn't replace it because it worked great and i had just filled the washer tank and didn't feel like draining it. I'll keep the new pump as a backup.

jets022
04-24-2008, 10:52 PM
My front washer pump stopped working like it has happened to many others. Today I tried to remove all the dielectric grease because that has helped some people. I have a volt meter so I figured that instead of cleaning all of the grease out I would stick in the probes to verify that the pump was getting power. There is no electricity on the wires that connect to the front pump. My rear pump is working and confirmed that the plug for the rear pump gets electricity. I wired the front pump using the plug for the rear pump and nothing. This means that the front pump is dead and gets no electricity. The fluid lines work fine since I ended up switching the lines for the front with the rear. Now I can get water in the front by using the switch for the rear windshield. All of my wipers work so it shouldn't be the fuse for the pump since it's one the same fuse as the wipers. Does anyone know if I can test check the voltage somewhere "upstream" of the pump? I read all the previous post releated to this but no one has had this problem.

Dom.five
04-25-2008, 07:45 AM
Under the Middle of the dash ! See Photo. C501 is the plug. that goes to the multiplex control unit. It's the white/Green wire coming off of pin # F6 in the under dash Fuse/Relay box.

Dom

bh241
04-25-2008, 08:15 AM
My rear pump is working and confirmed that the plug for the rear pump gets electricity. I wired the front pump using the plug for the rear pump and nothing. This means that the front pump is dead and gets no electricity. The fluid lines work fine since I ended up switching the lines for the front with the rear.

Am I reading this right? To me it really sounds like you have a bad pump.

Did you power the front pump with the wiring for the rear pump and it still didn't work? or am I totally mis-reading your post?

lizzurd
04-25-2008, 08:25 AM
Am I reading this right? To me it really sounds like you have a bad pump.

Did you power the front pump with the wiring for the rear pump and it still didn't work? or am I totally mis-reading your post?


Good catch Benny . After re-reading the original post i come up with the same thing.


Bad pump. Not an uncommon issue on older E's.

I

ApriliaGuy
04-25-2008, 10:36 AM
It sounds like the op is saying that the front pump tests bad because it won't work when activaded by the rear wires/switch, but the rear pump works fine.

When the rear pump connected to the front wires/switch it won't work either.

(Kinda what I get from the post)

Therefore....the switch/wires to the front pump don't work and the front pump itself won't work. __________________________________________________ ___________

I find this odd.....not impossible, but not likely either. From experience, I know testing wires/switches to a little bitty pump on the front right corner of a car w/ the switch located in the cabin is difficult.

The pump is prolly bad (as per testing) so it'll need replacement anyway. After installing new pump check the wires/switch connections to that pump. Pay carefull attention to grounds. :wink:

Good luck.

Will

jets022
04-25-2008, 02:26 PM
Thanks for the replies.

My pump is bad because it will not work when it is connected to the front or rear electrical plug. Common problem and I agree with everyone on this.

The wiring for the front fails to provide electricity. I tested this using a volt meter at the terminas on the plug. I also tested the rear wiring to make sure that I was measuring voltage the right way. The first time I made a mistake and used AC instead of DC. The fact that I get a voltage reading from the rear wiring leads me to believe that I should also see a voltage reading for the front wiring if I use the same method.

Everything for the rear works: pump, wiring, and tubing. For now, I switched the tubing between rear and front pumps.

I plan to replace the front pump but that won't solve my problem since it will not get electricity. I will try to measure voltage from pin # F6 on plug C501 under the dash like Dom.five suggested.

Should I splice the wire leading to the pin to connect the positive on the volt meter with the negative touching the car frame?

Edit: I think I will retest with the help of another person. To test I inserted the leads on the volt meter into the plug, positive to positive and neg to neg. I placed the volt meter on the hood and went inside to activate the switch. It is possible that a kink in the wires prevented a reading so I will try again.

ApriliaGuy
04-25-2008, 02:39 PM
Edit: I think I will retest with the help of another person. To test I inserted the leads on the volt meter into the plug, positive to positive and neg to neg. I placed the volt meter on the hood and went inside to activate the switch. It is possible that a kink in the wires prevented a reading so I will try again.

Yup.


Been there....screwed up like that. :wink:

I know testing wires/switches to a little bitty pump on the front right corner of a car w/ the switch located in the cabin is difficult

You might wanna plug the rear (working)pump into the front switch/wires and give that a try....blue juice squirtin' out is better than seein' a voltmeter/test light.


Will

Dom.five
04-25-2008, 02:48 PM
Notice :: Notice ::

The wiring connector does NOT PROVIDE Ground !!!!!

The pump is grounded to the Body..

Look for your +12v with one side of your Meter grounded. Or just use a test light With the - side to ground ....

Dom

er0l
05-27-2008, 03:37 PM
I was kind of worried at first, removing the front bumper seems intimidating. When i went about removing the bumper i removed all the screws and clips but realized that i could get to the pump without taking it off. I just kind of squeezed in there by partially removing the left side enough to fit my hand through. luckily the installation was as easy as punching it in there. the worst though was once i replaced the pump, me being the genius that i am didn't check to make sure it was in all the way, so after replacing the bumper and filling it up it all just leaked out and i had to do it all over again....:sad:

scubamac
08-12-2008, 12:35 PM
My '03 windshield washer stopped working. The rear still works. You can hear the pump working. I checked for clogged lines. When I try to activate the washers, there is nothing. There isn't any sound indicating that the pump is working. My biggest fear is that there's an electronic gremlin in the steering column. Any thoughts?
Mike

Dom.five
11-21-2008, 09:37 AM
It does not sound like it's possible for them to die at the same time. Make sure you have washer fluid in there, NOT just Water! The pumps may be frozen.

In the under dash fuse box fuse 9, It's a 10 amp, does the rear wiper/washer.

Fuse 20, a 20 amp, does the front.

When you take the cover off there is a diagram showing you the proper one to look at.

Dom

dcharette
11-24-2008, 12:14 PM
Hey guys...I'm new here and glad to be a member. I have found this site to be extremely helpful in diagnosing issues with my "E". I have an 04 "E" that I purchased new, it now has 66K. Last week I filled my washer fluid tank and got about 10 secs of use then nothing.... After reading the thread I realized I was not alone with this problem. I was curious so I called the dealer...$148 to replace this motor, ouch! Why would anyone put the factory pump back in???? I purchased a Trico pump at Auto Zone for $18 bucks and replaced it 45mins. The key is to remove the front bumper cover, be careful with the clips (use tweezers to lift them up about 18). 4 bolts and 2 screws. The only issue I had was pushing the new motor/pump into the tank. Here is an easy tip for pressing it in - remove the rubber bushing from the new motor and put it in the tank first. Then put a bit of dish soap on the part of the motor that you push into the rubber bushing, this lubes it up and it slides right in. FYI.... once you connect the harness try the motor before putting it all back together and be patient there is air in the line.
total cost = $22.00 after tax and another gallon of fluid.

spdrcr5
11-25-2008, 07:12 AM
Hey guys...I'm new here and glad to be a member. I have found this site to be extremely helpful in diagnosing issues with my "E". I have an 04 "E" that I purchased new, it now has 66K. Last week I filled my washer fluid tank and got about 10 secs of use then nothing.... After reading the thread I realized I was not alone with this problem. I was curious so I called the dealer...$148 to replace this motor, ouch! Why would anyone put the factory pump back in???? I purchased a Trico pump at Auto Zone for $18 bucks and replaced it 45mins. The key is to remove the front bumper cover, be careful with the clips (use tweezers to lift them up about 1. 4 bolts and 2 screws. The only issue I had was pushing the new motor/pump into the tank. Here is an easy tip for pressing it in - remove the rubber bushing from the new motor and put it in the tank first. Then put a bit of dish soap on the part of the motor that you push into the rubber bushing, this lubes it up and it slides right in. FYI.... once you connect the harness try the motor before putting it all back together and be patient there is air in the line.
total cost = $22.00 after tax and another gallon of fluid.

I had to replace my front washer motor pump and went with the Honda part. It didn't cost me anywhere near $148... I paid around $45 for it from Majestic Honda (http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com) online.

Maherdw
12-23-2008, 12:43 PM
Guys I just wanted to put this out there. i just fixed my front windshield washer and It cost me "0" in parts. It was just before the big snow here in Mass and I needed to fix it after partially removing the front right wheel liner and diagnosing the problem I simply switched the front and back washer hoses. I had to cut a tie down on the hose to do it, and I need to put the rear washer on to get the front to work but it got me throught the storm. I now have time to go get research and get a "frugal" replacement pump with no pressure.
I was looking up pumps on line and found this thread.

Skarekrough
12-24-2008, 11:43 AM
A month or so ago I went to give my front windshield a squirt and found that they weren't working.

The back one works fine.

However the front one won't put out any fluid.

I checked the hose and made sure there were no kinks. Shy of disconnecting it and hitting the line with compressed air I'm confident that it's clear.

It's not dispensing fluid onto the ground when I try it so I'm pretty confident that it's not an issue with continuity in the line.

Are there two fluid pumps on the Element? If this is the case I can see where if one went bad the results would be as I'd described.

However if there's only one then I'm going to be looking at replacing all the hoses to the nozzles and possible the nozzles themselves.

If anyone has any point where I should start I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

jazzer
12-30-2008, 05:20 PM
wanted to thank the forum for giving me the confidence to remove the bumper and replace my washer pump with the $18 one from autozone. That did not fix it. I bought two new nozzles, that was the fix. I'll keep the orig pump as backup. I think they froze during an early hard frost. Just to add to the database the fact that if the washer motor runs and you get no stream, don't forget the nozzles. :)

Skarekrough
01-03-2009, 12:34 PM
So, if the rear wiper is dispensing fluid am I correct in assuming that it's something to do with either the hoses or the front jets and NOT the actual pump itself?

lizzurd
01-03-2009, 12:36 PM
So, if the rear wiper is dispensing fluid am I correct in assuming that it's something to do with either the hoses or the front jets and NOT the actual pump itself?


There are 2 seperate pumps. One front and one for the rear washer. The front pump dying is a common issue with the E.

Skarekrough
02-03-2009, 01:14 PM
There are 2 seperate pumps. One front and one for the rear washer. The front pump dying is a common issue with the E.

Front pump got replaced.

No luck.

The wipers work, so I'm assuming that its NOT the fuse.

ramblerdan
02-03-2009, 01:42 PM
Did someone check the connector for power and ground while changing the pump?

BurnishedGold
08-16-2009, 12:20 PM
Alright, so yesterday I removed (partially) the front bumper and replaced the windshield fluid pump for $15.99. :D I did it all by myself.... except for when my husband decided he was going to 'help'. By that I mean, he proceeded to unplug the pump. Fluid came shooting out and all over me. :mad: I then sentenced him to cutting wood to build me a desk in the shed. Leave the car stuff to ME!

If I can do it, anyone can. Saved me approx $120!

nz0nxt
08-29-2009, 12:31 PM
Just replaced my 2004 E front windshield washer fluid pump this morning. Ridiculously easy. 12 of the plastic pins on the top with the radiator cover, 2 screws in the wheel well, 2 pins and four bolts on the bottom. I left 4 pins on the bottom which allowed a hinge for the bumper to drop over on the ground. I put a couple buckets underneath the bumper so it did not drop all the way.
Replacement part at Auto Zone was $18 plus tax. Only concern is the replacement pump does not have the electrical connector lock so am concerned that the connector will vibrate loose. I put a electrical grease on the terminals and mastic at the base of the connector to help keep it sealed.
I will see what happens after a few months.

Danawj
08-30-2009, 04:37 PM
Yet another great thread on the EOC! Like others before me, I swapped out my dead washer fluid pump on Friday afternoon. It was VERY easy - thanks to all the great information found here.

The dealer wanted - get this - $228 to replace it. It took about an hour of my day and a $17.82 part to get it done myself. I can't even begin to express the great amount of satisfaction it gave me.

Thanks everyone - cheers!

-D

affekonig
11-18-2009, 08:27 AM
Reviving an old thread as a first or second post. Oh well, it might be helpful. My squirters stopped working a while ago and I finally got around to fixing them before winter. I didn't need to remove any part of the bumper, just part of the wheel liner. The front pump is the one toward the outside front of the car. It just pops out, disconnect the wires and hose and reverse the process. Mine looked REALLY bad. The top actually pulled off when I was disconecting the wires, and they weren't even corroded on there.


The part was $17 at Auto Zone and the repair could be done in less than an hour if you know it's the pump (and which one it is) and have the new one ready. I pulled two bolts from the bottom of the bumper and a enough of the body clips to get the room I needed (maybe 6 or 7). Good luck.

MarcoFranssen
12-19-2009, 11:27 AM
does anyone knows if the windshield washer motor has his own fuse ?? i can't clean my windshield now .............. :?

i can't find anything about it in my manual.

ramblerdan
12-19-2009, 11:45 AM
Fuse 20 (20A) in the under-dash fuse box (http://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/e/udfrb.htm). If the front windshield washer works, it's not the fuse.

larushka
06-01-2010, 10:03 AM
My front windshield washer pump does not work and it is NOT the pump. I put 12 volts to the pump and it works fine. I do not get 12volts to the pump when I activate the lever on the column. The rear pump works fine and I get 12volts when activating the lever. I ohm'd the rear pump wires and I do get one wire (can't remember the color) 0 ohm's to ground. The front pump wire, I get approx. 800 ohm's to ground. It appears I have a bad switch (contact) or there is a fuse/link broke? Do I have to get into the colum to check out the switch (contact)? If so, what/where is the best illustration repair manual to buy? Any help, ideas or suggestions will be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks

Tim Vance
06-01-2010, 11:02 AM
The Shop Manual is the best to get for everything that you may need to repair...

Just do a search on this site for shop manual

ramblerdan
06-01-2010, 11:08 AM
Service manual:
H&A (http://www.handa-accessories.com/elementmaint.html) (site sponsor)
Helm Inc. (http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result.asp?Style=&Mfg=AHM&Make=AHM&Model=ELEM&Year=2004&Category=1&Keyword=&Module=&mscsid=XH17U7D4DV0W9JARKEFL2M57XKM1FTNA)

If the problem turns out to be the wiper switch, it's a very easy part to replace (relevant posts here (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=696078)).

larushka
06-02-2010, 10:26 AM
Thank you for the advice. I ordered a repair manual yesterday. I will keep you posted what I find out, once I get the manual. I would think it would be just a switch, but you never know. Would something like this show up on the computer??

ramblerdan
06-02-2010, 11:01 AM
It wouldn't throw an error code, if that's what you mean.

BTW the rear washer is on fuse #9 (10A) of the under-dash fuse box (http://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/e/udfrb.htm), and the front washer is on fuse #20 (20A). The wiper motor works, yes?

larushka
06-02-2010, 12:42 PM
Yes, the wiper motor does work. I didn't see in the owners manual where the fuse was for the front washer pump, and I just pulled all of the 7.5, 15 and 20A's. out, but thanks for telling me about the location of it, I will recheck it tonight.

larushka
06-03-2010, 05:42 AM
The fuse is good. It looks like I will have to pull out the windshield washer/wiper motor assy. lever/switch.

larushka
06-04-2010, 06:21 AM
Switch is making the contact, so it is not the switch. I don't have my manual yet, so I don't know what is between the switch and the motor, and it's not getting the 12 volts down to the motor. Looks like I might have to pay Honda on this one.

ramblerdan
06-04-2010, 09:34 AM
It's a shot in the dark, but you could try reseating the switch connector and the X connector at the back of the under-dash fuse box (http://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/e/udfrb.htm).

larushka
06-04-2010, 10:12 AM
Thanks Ramblerdan, I'll try that, and it makes sense, because something is not making a good conection because of the ohm reading I was getting which is on my first post.

larushka
06-08-2010, 10:22 AM
Finally got my manual yesterday. I did not take the under the dash fuse board off yet. For temporary solution, I just switched the hoses so I have to use the back window switch for the front windshield. From the manual, it looks like I have a bad connection to ground.

TJR
06-14-2010, 12:07 AM
My '03 E front washer pump was 50/50 most of the winter, I thought it might have been frozen ? Well all spring the pump hasn't worked.(it was actully seized from the elements.) Today I gave it a look. From below I jacked up the car, and removed (2) 10m head bolts under the bumper (pass side). I was able to deflect the plastic mud shields away to get to the pump. Trying to get the connector off the pump sort of came apart. I removed the pump and took it into the garage for a closer look. Well inside the pump, the brushes had poped out from the end cap coming loose. Also the ammature assy was pretty rusted/corroded. I removed the brushes and sanded the rust off the armature w/ emery cloth. I was able to re-assemble the motor brushes, but the trick was to place the ammature into the end cap, then install the brushes, then secure the tension springs. Tweezers helped. Holding this sub-assembly vertically, slide the pump body over the armature. This keeps the brushes in place. Rotate it until the impeller engages the motor shaft and then snap the endcap fully on. Seal it.

Success!!

The pump runs fine again, I added some sealer to the od, installed it back into the washer fluid tank and now the pump actully pumps better than before. It took me a bit to find the best way to handle and NOT drop the small parts they're prone to fly away , bounce and get lost! ... TJR

larushka
07-05-2010, 02:08 PM
I fixed the problem by connecting a jumper wire to the motor connector (at the motor washer) to ground. The problem is a bad ground connection somwhere between the motor terminal and the switch. I didn't take the fuse board off inside the vechicle to check connections as was suggested. I assume that is where the bad connection is. It was easier to jumper the terminal to ground at the motor connector than to get the fuse interior fuse board out. The top nut that fastens the interior fuse board is on the back side and it looked more difficult to get that off and then try to put it back on.

chelleb
11-19-2010, 10:23 AM
I started a thread asking about my rear washer fluid, and was pointed to this thread. I figured rather than continue to ask questions in my own thread, I would ask them here.

My rear wipers work, and when I try to use the washer fluid, the motor runs but no washer fluid comes out. I looked and the nozzles do not look clogged from the outside. Someone mentioned replacing the nozzles, and checking the connections to the motor. Where can I find the rear washer motor? I have a 2004 EX if that makes a difference.

Thank you!
~Michelle

ramblerdan
11-19-2010, 11:29 AM
As Larry mentioned in the other thread, the front and rear fluid pumps are both on the fluid reservoir.

The fact that you hear a motor noise suggests a clogged hose or nozzle, though it's possible that the motor is running yet not pumping fluid.

Don't know what your technical capabilities are, but this is what I'd do:

Remove the hose from the rear nozzle and see if fluid comes out the hose when activating the rear pump. If so, clear the obstruction in the nozzle. If not, see if the hose is plugged.

If you can't see a blockage in the hose, remove the front bumper and get a helper to activate the rear pump switch so you can determine which pump sends fluid to the back. Then remove the hose from that pump (be ready to plug the reservoir outlet or else allow all the fluid to escape) and, with the other end of the hose detached from the rear nozzle, apply compressed air to the front end. The air will either clear the clog, let you know that the hose is hopelessly plugged up, or will implicate the motor.

If there's no blockage, temporarily attach the rear hose on the front motor for diagnostic purposes and test again.

chelleb
11-19-2010, 02:30 PM
Thank you Dan! I missed that part in Larry's other post.

One more question....how do I remove the hose from the rear nozzle?

~Michelle

ramblerdan
11-19-2010, 02:49 PM
I haven't done it, but generally hoses just press on. If you're asking what parts need to be removed to get at the nozzle and hose ... well I can't answer that either, except to recommend a service manual (if you plan to work on your own car in the future, it will more than pay for itself). I don't know how often Lumenbeing (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=891793) logs in, but you could try shooting him a PM.

Service manual:
H&A (http://www.handa-accessories.com/elementselect/manual.html)
Helm Inc. (http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result.asp?Style=&Mfg=AHM&Make=AHM&Model=ELEM&Year=2004&Category=1&Keyword=&Module=&mscsid=XH17U7D4DV0W9JARKEFL2M57XKM1FTNA)

Captain Slow
03-26-2011, 10:07 PM
My front pump went out in the fall, it first started acting up in the end of summer but then finally died. The pump was in real bad shape and ended up breaking into three pieces when i went to unplug it.

AztecRol
03-27-2011, 03:27 PM
http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/hpa/images/illustration/62/1372400.png

Looks like #1 is the rear window motor and #31 is the front windshield motor.

They show two part numbers for the front one, I have no idea why.

38512-S3V-A01 31 MOTOR, WASHER (DENSO) $ 70.12 $ 51.33
38512-SCV-A02 31 MOTOR, WASHER (DENSO) $ 71.77 $ 52.53
38512-SCV-A02 1 MOTOR, WASHER (DENSO) $ 71.77 $ 52.53

After copying and pasting that, I see that you can use the same motor for front and rear windows.

Part number is first, number on pic is second, description is next, then MSRP and finally HondaPartsDeals price.

Here is where I found it:

CLICK ME!! (http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/hpa_parts_list.php?vin=&Label[ProductID]=ELEMENT&Label[YearID]=2004&Label[DoorID]=5&Label[GradeID]=LX+%282WD%29&Label[AreaID]=KA&Label[TransmissionID]=5MT&Label[SectionID]=ELECTRICAL+%2F+EXHAUST+%2F+HEATER+%2F+FUEL&Label[IllustrationGroupID]=WINDSHIELD+WASHER&ProductID=15&YearID=35&DoorID=3&GradeID=385&AreaID=2&TransmissionID=3&SectionID=5&IllustrationGroupID=11086)

Silo Pete
04-09-2011, 06:03 PM
The replacement took about 40 minutes. The fog light install kit instructions (page 2) was a great help. I attached that PDF here.

Tools needed: 8mm nut driver or small socket for the 2 self tapping screws, a 10mm socket for the 4 bolts, a drain pan and a funnel (to refill) for the fluid and a small-blade screwdriver for the plastic clips. A second set of hands helps on the reinstall. Just remove the 2 self tapping screws last and then install first and that is a great help.

Some of the clips broke, but I think they are the same used on Honda ATV's. I might swing by the motorcycle dealership to grab a few.

The OEM type pump was from NAPA for around 16 bucks. Not an exact match, but it has a 1 year, 12k warranty.

The forum was a big help. Thanks.

Corbinworks
10-02-2012, 10:28 PM
Talked to the dealer today, They told me that I needed a pump & tank, I asked why do I need a new tank, they said theres a NEW updated style for the new style pumps..any one have any info on this?

ramblerdan
10-03-2012, 10:47 AM
I checked four sources, and the only part numbers I find are:

Front pump: 38512-SCV-A02
Rear pump: 38512-SDA-A01
Tank: 76840-SCV-A01

No "replaced by" numbers.

elementxai
12-27-2013, 09:05 AM
I had major issues with windshield fluid! Road trip out of state with no fluid during winter is a bad idea. Had to use water bottles and make stops on exits every hour.

Problem: whenever I turned on lever for washer fluid nothing came out and I didn't hear any noise. I did have a crack in fluid reservoir but that wasn't the issue, I think, cause it used to work with. Rear window fluid wasn't coming out either.

Solution: well, I went ahead and purchased new washer pump from autozone for $16. Tested it by plugging it in electrical connector and it worked so issue wasn't wiring. When I removed old washer pump though I noticeda big crack on the inside and on top of where the washer pump sits so fluid kept dripping unto the old washer pump and likely killed it as the old washer pump had no cracks or anything and looked fine physically. I patched that up using JB Water weld, left it over night as it needed lots of time to set in and harden being is cold. Put in washer fluid this morning and it works fine now. The rear washer pump somehow was disconnected to the electrical connector soi I simply just plugged the connector back and rear works like normal now.

Thanks for all the posts community as it helped.

khr77
03-25-2014, 06:28 AM
Unfortunately, it seems that I have the same issue. Could you provide the part number? Also, were the instructions for replacement in the manual or somewhere else? Thanks.

SHARKCAGE
04-14-2014, 04:46 PM
Second time my front washer fluid motor needs to be replaced. Never have had to replace this on any other vehicle I've owned, and all other vehicles were driven over 100,000 miles with 217,000 being the most. seems like the pumps need to be improved. does honda use this pump in other models?
Just curious if this is an issue with only this particular pump.

Rob Dobbs
04-14-2014, 07:46 PM
im curious if people are using strait water from the tap, distilled water or "washer fluid". Thats and has anyone done a climate check as in cold weather stats vs warm climate pump failure rates?