My salesman didn't mention it and the manual seems to indicate that the first oil change is 10,000 miles. Is that correct or am I missing some information?

no you are correct, 10K is correct per manual. although this is a heavily talked about topic. i got mine changed 2 weeks ago (@ 5K) for the first time and will follow the regular maintenance schedule but add the oil changes on the 5k marks also (5,15k,25k, etc) in addition to the manual.

Thnaks for the reassurance. I don't want to abuse this thing and was thinking I had blown the initial maint.

no you are correct, 10K is correct per manual. although this is a heavily talked about topic. i got mine changed 2 weeks ago (@ 5K) for the first time and will follow the regular maintenance schedule but add the oil changes on the 5k marks also (5,15k,25k, etc) in addition to the manual.

This is indeed a heavily discussed topic, but I've yet to see a definitive answer. I'm approaching the 5K mark and have been contacted twice (snail mail and e-mail) by my dealer reminding me I'm nearing the first scheduled oil change. So...I'm confused. Manual says 10K; dealer says 5K; frankly, EOC members are all over the map. I'd love some consistent advice!

here's my two cents. i was initially going to wait to 10K as well, but it was an extra hot summer here in minnesota, so i decided to do it at 6,500K...the oil level was still fine but it didn't sound the same as when it was new. so i had it changed, put in Mobil 1 5w20, and i'm going to go with a 7,500k interval from now on, i figure right in the middle can't be too bad! the car will be housed in the garage during the winter, so start ups won't be too harsh from the cold. oh yeah, after the first change, the engine has purred since, i think we're at about 9,500 miles now and its still quiet as a kitten! (i've never used synthetic before, but acceleration and shifting feel smoother than i've ever noticed in any car before)

I have not referred to my book, but the sales person stated to change the oil on both of my vehicles every 5K. He also commented that Honda uses their own synthetic blends of oil. The new car has a special synthetic blend thatis designed to be in the motor for around 5K and there normal synthetic blend is designed to prolong motor life. Is there any truth to this or is he simply trying to bait me to use the dealership for oilchanges? Honda's prices are competitive in this area.

Well, I just scheduled my first oil change and I'm a little over 5k. I was a little hesitant about waiting until 10k. I know I probably could've but I didn't want to push it. I want to take extra special care of my new E :grin: . I also asked the dealer when I should bring it in for the first maintence and they told me 7,500 miles. :| Whatever! As long as my baby stays healthy and beautiful, I'll do whatever it takes. :lol:

My dealer still thinks 3000 miles is best (they send flyers, the little oil change sticker on the windshield- they write the mileage for 3000). They want to bilk 25 bucks out of everyone every 3000 miles. :( I dont know what they are reading, but its not in my manual... I change it about every 5000 because with all my city and winter driving, I fall into the extreme category.

I was listening to the Car Guys one day and they were talking about oil changes in England. It seems that they don't change oil unless the car has other troubles. I don't know of any study to show if cars last longer in the USA than in England, but it would be interesting to some statistics.
:|

Check out the tread Break-in oil.

I too would like to know about Honda's exclusive synthetic-oil. Is there any truth in that Honda uses a specific type of oil? If so I assume it's probably the best to get oil changed at Honda dealers?

So...I'm confused. Manual says 10K; dealer says 5K; frankly, EOC members are all over the map. I'd love some consistent advice!

Indeed we are all over the map with oil change intervals, especially "the first one". I used the forum average* of 5K for my first oil change and filled up with Mobil 1 0W20 and a NAPA Gold filter. I'm nearing the 7.5K interval for my next change and will continue to use Mobil 1 with the NAPA filter. Mobil has since discontinued 0W20 and replaced it with 5W20...some speculation abounds if the oil is indeed different or if the label was just changed so as to make it easier on consumers who's vehicles call for 5W20.

* forum average: At the time it seemed that a larger percentage of posters went with the 5K mark for the first oil change. I know, it sounds like I'm just following the crowd right? Guilty as charged.



One last thing: These oil threads=http://www.geocities.com/genomindustries/beatdeadhorse.gif :grin::shock:

I too would like to know about Honda's exclusive synthetic-oil. Is there any truth in that Honda uses a specific type of oil? If so I assume it's probably the best to get oil changed at Honda dealers?
Years ago, I used to test oils and I'm fairly certain that the 5W20 recommended has to be at least a synthetic blend, if not pure synthetic. In doing a little surfing on the web, apparently Honda, Ford and recently DaimlerChrysler have started to recommend engine oils meeting the new GF-4 standard. Though complicated, this standard allows for better ability to meet CAFE requirements. Because the manual recommends 10K oil changes, I'm willing to bet synthetic is used - regular oil just can't withstand heat breakdown for that long of a time period.

Also, Honda's oil filters are pretty unique (at least for OEM) due to its very effective check valve, which keeps oil in the engine at startup. There are threads on this subject, but I would think using a Honda filter would be more important than "honda brand" oil - just be sure to use the 5W20.

I was at the dealer today. My service rep stated the obvious: that the miles/months for an oil change depends on the owners weather and driving patterns. Being that I live in a tropical state and drive a lot in the city, its best for to change my oil every 3500 - 5 K. What is everone's opinion on this?

Well I got my E with the Mileage 11K. I would assume that Carmax would have told me if it needed the initial oil change done. Now my mileage is 20K. I just got the 20,000 mile maintence done to it. Yes WE drive it alot. One thing however, if you have Honda do the 20,000 maintenance they are going to charge you $135.00 labor. Please keep this in mind as they socked it to me!!!!

Chris~

I learned about gasoline engines from my father who was a US AIR FORCE Senior Master Sgt. and Line Chief. In charge of maintenance for entire squadrons of various aircraft over 3 decades. (The USAF used synthetic oils long before they were available to civilians for cars).

He explained oil to me like this:
Oil does TWO THINGS. It lubricates and keeps metal from rubbing on metal. AND it grabs little particles of dirt, carbon and metal and these float around in it as long as the oil is in the engine. The OIL FILTER removes SOME of these particles. The others remain in the oil until you drain it out and change it with fresh clean oil.
He also explained to me that heat affects oil in many ways depending on the TYPE OF OIL and that sythentics SEEM to retain their lubrication properties better than organic oil.

Also the TYPE OF USE to which the engine is put makes a HUGE difference in how the oil behaves. Should be obvious that tons of short trips at various low speeds are much harder on the oil than fewer longer trips at steady highway speeds.

It is, after all, the dirt and heat that cause the oil to lose its effectiveness.

Then he told me that no matter what - the more often you change the oil and filter, the longer the engine will last. PERIOD.

I'm buing a new 05 AWD MM AT EX this week, 23 SEPT 05. I assure you, my baby will get fresh oil and filter every 3K regardless of what the dealer says. BTW - What does ANY salesman know about engine maintenance? Please!

Oil changes are cheap. Engines are expensive.

Show any future buyer a stack of oil change receipts done every 3K and you'll at the very least get an honest price at selling time.

IMHO that is.

I always attribute the long life of all my cars to frequent oil changes as much as buying a good product to begin with (Hondas). Maybe it's a coincidence, but every Honda in my 'family' (5 before the E) has had well over 175k when I sold it, and the engine was still running great. I NEVER had an engine repair. I used to change the oil every 3,000 miles, now with the E I'm going with every 5,000 since they seem to be designed to go a little longer between oil changes.

It's kind of like owning a house- preventive maintenance- don't wait til the roof leaks to fix the shingles. In the long run, you'll spend a hell of a lot less money.

I'm buing a new 05 AWD MM AT EX this week, 23 SEPT 05. I assure you, my baby will get fresh oil and filter every 3K regardless of what the dealer says. BTW - What does ANY salesman know about engine maintenance? Please!

Oil changes are cheap. Engines are expensive.

Show any future buyer a stack of oil change receipts done every 3K and you'll at the very least get an honest price at selling time.

IMHO that is.

If I was buying from you, I would chuckle inside and say "He thinks all those oil changes were 'cheap' and that therefore his car is somehow worth 'more'." Things have changed both with engines and with motor oils over the past several decades since your father first began his career.

Replacing your oil on an Element every 3000 miles is simply a waste of your hard earned $$$ and simply creates more demands on the environment than need be. Shame on you. :-D

No, I am not saying that one mileage fits all Elements for an oil change based on type of driving conditions, but an oil analysis will determine to a T when and at what mileage you should change the motor oil. You can get test kits at a lot of places (or send your oil in for a test). Here's an example of some test kits: http://store.avlube.com/oilandfuanki.html Saves much $$$ in the long run by testing to know when to change the motor oil.

What about the 3000 Mile Myth?

The 3000 mile oil change interval has been pounded into people's heads for decades. The 3K mile oil change interval had a scientific basis when engines used non-multi-weight, non-detergent oil. It no longer has any scientific basis, but it is still being promoted by certain entities, most notably the oil change industry in the United States. This myth is also sometimes known as the "Cheap Insurance Myth."

Do you think all of the quick oil change franchises, oil companies and stealerships want to increase the amount of miles you drive between changes (especially the service departments at dealerships)? Heck no, they want your hard earned $$$ to be their hard earned $$$ and are more than happy to lure in those that fall for it hook, line and sinker with the 3K myth. :lol:

Bad for your wallet and much worse for the environment.

If you drove, on average, 20 - 21K per year for 6 years in your Element - which certainly is not an unrealistic amount (some drive more, some much less) - then driving your Element for 125K over those 6 years works out like this:

Changing oil every 3K = 42 oil changes
Changing oil every 5K = 25 oil changes
Changing oil every 7K = 18 oil changes
Changing oil every 10K = 13 oil changes

If you drive under severe conditions according to the manual you could just change your oil 2X per year for the 6 years to equal 12 oil changes. Drive under normal conditions and you could simply change it once a year to equal a total of 6 oil changes (that's the European way).

The Owners Manual states:

To help assure your vehicle's future reliability and performance...Do not change the oil until the recommended time or mileage interval shown in the maintenance schedule (every 10,000 miles or 12 months for normal conditions or every 5,000 miles or 6 months for severe conditions).

Are you drving under Normal or Severe Conditions?

The Owner's Manual states:

Follow the Maintence Schedule for Severe Conditions if you drive your vehicle MAINLY under one or more of the following conditions:

Driving less than 5 miles per trip.
Driving less than 10 miles per trip in freezing temperatures.
Driving in extremely hot conditions. (over 90 degrees)
Extensive idling.
Long periods of stop-and-go driving.
Trailer towing.
Driving in mountainous conditions.
Driving on muddy, dusty, or de-iced roads.

If you only OCCASIONALLY or NEVER drive under a "severe" condition, you should follow The Schedule for Normal Condition.
=====

Me? I'll stick pretty close to the oil and filter change every 10K for my driving habits and be using the trusted oil analysis method to make sure I am not wasting money and trashing the environment when deciding how often to change the oil. I don't consider that a risk which will lead to me needing a new engine. The money I save on too many excess oil changes will go for new tires and other maintenance costs over the years I drive the Element. And it's good for the environment...

LeadFoot

I'm with leadfoot on this!!
It's like believing everything you see on tv. Buyer beware

If I was buying from you, I would chuckle inside and say "this guy's a sucker". :roll: He thinks all those oil changes were 'cheap' and that therefore his car is somehow worth 'more'.

It's always a revelation to find out that one's parent (either their mother or their father) might just be wrong with their advice/opinion. Or that things may have changed both with engines and with motor oils over the past several decades since your father first began his career.

Replacing your oil on an Element (and many other makes) every 3000 miles is simply a waste of your hard earned $$$ and simply creates more demands on the environment than need be. Shame on you. :-D

No, I am not saying that one mileage fits all Elements for an oil change based on type of driving conditions, but an oil analysis will determine to a T when and at what mileage you should change the motor oil. You can get test kits at a lot of places (or send your oil in for a test). Here's an example of some test kits: http://store.avlube.com/oilandfuanki.html

Trucks and fleets always test the oil before changing so they know when to change. Saves much $$$ in the long run by testing to know when to change the motor oil.

What about the 3000 Mile Myth?

The 3000 mile oil change interval has been pounded into people's heads for decades. You have been on the receiving end of this "misinformation" being passed on to you by your father/mentor. I understand it is hard to let go of that. The 3K mile oil change interval had a scientific basis when engines used non-multi-weight, non-detergent oil. It no longer has any scientific basis, but it is still being promoted by certain entities, most notably the oil change industry in the United States. This myth is also sometimes known as the "Cheap Insurance Myth." Do you think all of the quick oil change franchises, oil companies and stealerships want to increase the amount of miles you drive between changes (especially the service departments at dealerships)? Heck no, they want your hard earned $$$ to be their hard earned $$$. They are more than happy to lure in those that fall for it hook, line and sinker with the 3K myth. :lol:

Hey, it's your money. If you want to fall for it, feel free and change away.

Let's say you drove, on average, 20 - 21K yer year for 6 years in your Element. That certainly is not an unrealistic amount (some drive more, some much less).

Driving your Element for 125K over 6 years works out like this give or take 1/2 an oil change:

Changing oil every 3K = 42 oil changes
Changing oil every 5K = 25 oil changes
Changing oil every 7K = 18 oil changes
Changing oil every 10K = 13 oil changes

Or, if you drive under severe conditions according to the manual you could just change your oil 2X per year for the 6 years to equal 12 oil changes. Drive under normal conditions and you could simply change it once a year to equal a total of 6 oil changes (that's the European way).

The Owners Manual states:

To help assure your vehicle's future reliability and performance...Do not change the oil until the recommended time or mileage interval shown in the maintenance schedule (every 10,000 miles or 12 months for normal conditions or every 5,000 miles or 6 months for severe conditions).

Are you drving under Normal or Severe Conditions?

The Owner's Manual states:

Follow the Maintence Schedule for Severe Conditions if you drive your vehicle MAINLY under one or more of the following conditions.

Driving less than 5 miles per trip.
Driving less than 10 miles per trip in freezing temperatures.
Driving in extremely hot conditions. (over 90 degrees)
Extensive idling.
Long periods of stop-and-go driving.
Trailer towing.
Driving in mountainous conditions.
Driving on muddy, dusty, or de-iced roads.

If you only OCCASIONALLY or NEVER drive under a "severe" condition, you should follow The Schedule for Normal Condition.
=====

Me? I'll probably stick pretty close to the oil and filter change every 10K for my driving habits and use the trusted oil analysis method to make sure I am not wasting money and trashing the environment. I don't consider that a risk which will lead to me needing a new engine. The money I save on too many excess oil changes will go for new tires and other maintenance costs over the years I drive the Element.

I had no problems with going well, well beyond the 3K "myth" for 2 1986 Accords, a 1992 Integra, a 1992 4 door Civic, a 1992 Accord LX Wagon (just sold with 125K to buy the Element) and an Odyssey (Shuttle in Europe where I owned it). I pretty much averaged 7-8K between changes on all of those vehicles. Nobody ever asked me to show maintenance records when they purchased my vehicle - even though I offered to show them all records.

LeadFoot

Wow, I have finally found someone with a more long winded way of saying " I know best" than me.
I'm not saying this post is right or wrong. Just long.

I would think that if the book doesn't specifically recommend a synthetic, or synthetic blend, then they cannot be using one at Honda. Just think what you could do to the motor, following a 10,000 mile interval procedure, if that was based on a special oil or filter.

I've been just as curious about this as everyone else (coming up on first 5K), and I think I will go with 5K as my mileage interval. I do drive around town a fair amount (take the train to work, and walk to the station).

One other thought to make you lose sleep. If I'm not mistaken, some engines (my 350Z), recommend to specifically avoid synthetic oil (a hot debate in that forum too!!). The other thing I seem to remember is that you should pass from organic to sysnthetic through a blend. That is, you shouldn't jump from one to the other directly. But as you rapidly become aware after reading a little on oil changes, I'm about as much of an expert and anyone else (not at all!!).

i do every 3k with mobil 1 AND a mobil 1 filter. since i only drive about 6k a year this works out to every six months. another nice thing i found out is that when i use the quick lube at the honda dealer it shows up on carfax. any future buyers pulling a carfax will see that it has been regularly serviced every 3k and the honda dealer quick lube is actually cheaper and faster than the corner ones because i bring in my own oil and filter each time!

Wow.. You all probably think I'm nuts then because I am changine my oil at 500 miles, yes 5 hundred miles and then every 3 months thereafter regardless of miles with Mobil-1 Synthetic and a Wix/NapaGold filter.

Wow.. You all probably think I'm nuts then because I am changine my oil at 500 miles, yes 5 hundred miles and then every 3 months thereafter regardless of miles with Mobil-1 Synthetic and a Wix/NapaGold filter.
Maybe foolish, but not nuts.:) The Owners manual states to leave the break in oil in for, if I'm not mistaken, at least 5000 miles. Why not go with what Honda recommends.?

Wow.. You all probably think I'm nuts then because I am changine my oil at 500 miles, yes 5 hundred miles and then every 3 months thereafter regardless of miles with Mobil-1 Synthetic and a Wix/NapaGold filter.As an ExxonMobil stockholder, I want to personally thank you.

I too would like to know about Honda's exclusive synthetic-oil. Is there any truth in that Honda uses a specific type of oil? If so I assume it's probably the best to get oil changed at Honda dealers?

No. Your Honda manual (2006) recommends a 10,000 mile interval for anything but severe service. (And I will wager that there are very few people who ever qualify for "severe service".) The exception is the first interval length for my E: I believe that an early interval is good. But from now on I will be changing oil every time the odometer shows an even 10,000 miles. (Easy to remember!)

Although it is still important to change the oil when the oil's lubricating qualities deteriorate, it is still a function of the OIL, not the car. (Car working correctly and not malfunctioning.) Use of any rated oil with the manufacturer's required API will result in oil life at least what the recommended interval is. Changing it sooner is not a bad thing, just a waste of money and placing further strain on resources and the environmental cost of the oil filter in our landfills. (The oil is generally used for good when recycled.)

Using a synthetic Mobil 1, Castrol "Green" or another of the better synthetics from another brand will result in a long change interval without any detriment to the life of the engine. In fact, if there is a malfunction, synthetics will be stable at higher temoperatures and may protect that extra minute it takes you to get out of a bad traffic situation to the side of the road.

I change my own oil and inspect the car myself at every oil change. I know my car's condition and what needs be done because of it.

See my post here http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21756&highlight=Blackstone

Here it is for those who won't follow links... :grin:
Well, the first oil change test results are back from Blackstone Laboratories. I have used this lab for years and highly recommend them. In fact, if you wish to request a sample bottle and have your oil tested, it will tell you many things about your oil and engine. $20 well spent.

First, it will tell you of any wear metals. This is especialy important as you will know that something is "up". I use oil testing in my profession to gauge when a $140,000 refrigeration compessor is due for failure and it allows us to stop short of catastrophic failure.

Usually, they tell me that the oil was not worn out and suggest an extension of change interval. It was always 2,000 miles, when the oil was Mobil 1 and changed at any interval up to 9,000 miles in any of my previous engines, except for my TurboDiesel GMC Suburban. This time, that was not a part of the requirements, as this was an interval on a new engine and it was short interval.

As to what the special nature of the oil is? Note that the lab pegged it as 0W-20 oil, and NOT the recommended 5W-20. Here is the answer to my question to the oil technician:

MARK: There's nothing about this oil that makes it special. It's just what Honda uses at the factory, and lots of other oil types will work just as well for you. The high wear metals and silicon are not surprising in this sample, Wear is high due to break-in of new parts, while silicon is from sealers and sand-casted parts, The fuel is from rings seating and should disappear next time. Universal averages show typical wear metals for an oil from this engine after 4800 miles use. We expect your engine will look that good or better soon. Check back to see improvements.

To look at the report, there are several indicators that I consider high. These are attributed to the wear in/break in of the engine as noted in the report. That being said, I consider dilution of the oil in the engine at 0.50% (0.005) to be a detriment to long term engine life. There are wear elements in the oil and are attributed to break in sources, however, these are also not a good thing to keep circulating. Yes they are not "big chunks", but I do not wish to have wear metals in my oil, even at this scale. Aluminum, Copper and Iron were there as wear metals.

Silicon is indicated from casting residue and sealer materials. Later, if Silicon is increased, it would be most probable from dirt ingestion in the engine intake. This is an indicator in the future, but not troublesome now. If I would see Silicon in my oil at 40K miles, I would immediately change my air filter, even if it was a K&N cleanable! (That would be leaking by.) I should say that all my K&N filter equipped vehicles have NEVER shown increased silicon levels, and I trust the K&N.

Moly is typically a wear additive, so I am not concerned with the high levels of that. Indeed, I would be concerned if they were NOT there!

Viscosity was at the low end of the range, being "thinner". Flashpoint was very low, largely from the gasoline dilution. No head gasket leaks were indicated as there was no glycol found in the sample.

My impressions are that it is worth changing the initial oil change at a lower interval. It is worth eliminating the increased gasoline from the crankcase oil at an earlier interval, rather than later. This has always been the primary reason for the intial oil change being required, as well as removal of wear metals. IT would seem from this test that my engine is no different in that respect than any of my previous Ford, GMC, Pontiac, Saturn, Dodge, Honda, Kawasaki, FIAT, or Mitsubishi engines. Honda has not appreciably "superhoned" the engine and still relies upon a breakin period to seat the rings and polish the bearings.

Bottom line, if you wish to have the longest life of your engine, change the oil at a reduced interval and get those contaminates OUT of your engine earlier, rather than later!

http://www.mboxcommunity.com/Mark/oil1.jpg

Stay tuned, many months from now, for the second oil change test report!!