Ventlock [Archive] - Honda Element Owners Club Forum

: Ventlock


Betty
10-30-2005, 05:20 AM
Am wondering if any dog owners have tried using an item called a Ventlock. Just came across it on the AKC website and it looks promising. It allows the back hatch to be cracked open for air. Would love to hear what people think. If you do use one, what size for the Element? Pros/cons?

http://www.ventlock.com/

Hondamade4dogs
10-30-2005, 08:30 AM
A dog will cook in a car if he is left in there for more than 25 minutes on a hot day. (Hotdog)...Just cracking the windows isn't going to help , so paying money for the ventlock rear door wiggit doesn't sound too good. Why leave your dog in the car, What did you bring him for ?? Do you want to be left in the car on a hot day for hours? :shock:

Betty
10-30-2005, 08:57 AM
Have never "left the dog for hours" but there are times when she must be in the car for short amounts of time. Looking for help, not flames!

spdrcr5
10-30-2005, 09:27 AM
Betty, I know you are looking for help on this... but to be perfectly honest leaving an animal inside a parked car is a very inhumane thing to do. Whether you do or don't know this I am going to say it anyway...

Dogs don't sweat and have a difficult time removing heat from their bodies. Their only means of removing heat from their bodies is to pant. When locking a dog in a car even with the windows open half way, the hatch open, the sunroof removed... it doesn't matter. An Element will turn into an oven just as easily as any other vehicle. Please don't do it. If you have to run into a store, either bring your dog in with you, ask someone to watch them outside the store or leave them home.

When locking a dog in a car it is abuse and many animals have a difficult time recovering from this. It is completely different when leaving a person in a car... though infants can die just as easily as a dog.

Please don't think that my post of the others are in any way a flame towards you... they are not. You are asking pet owners/lovers for help in something that goes completely counter to what someone should be doing.

EDIT: I just went and grabbed this for you and anyone else thinking of leaving your Best Friend in the car... please read it, then rethink leaving a pet in the car... even for a few minutes.

Pets in Hot Cars (http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_HotCars.php)

WoodysBlkElement
10-30-2005, 09:58 AM
WOW dont you guys think your being a little hard. I really doubt that she leaves her dog in the E in hot weather. I think she was just asking for some advice on what to buy. I understand that it is a very valid issue that you have brought up but I don't think you need to jump the gun on someone asking for advice.

I'm sorry but it just bugs me when someone just jumps on someone for no reason.

bsdowner
10-30-2005, 10:31 AM
One of the Signature Belgian Sheepdog owners has a vent lock for her E and likes it.

Many folks at dog shows leave their dogs in the crate in the car - that is why you see so many mini-vans and E's at dog shows. It seems to be less stressful for the dog to be in his/her crate in the car than in a crowded and noisy dog show floor. Other times there is no place/space for crates. The exhibitors have the reflector blankets on the front windows and over the open tail gate. Plus many have fans in the vans.

Some folks leave the dog for a short time locked with a vent lock. Yes, crime is increasing at dog shows. FYI, There is no space in a porta potty for the dog and the owner. Holding a dog leash while sitting on the potty is not a good idea. Been there, done that.

paulj
10-30-2005, 11:32 AM
The Ventlock site has good information on how to keep your dog safe when left in the car. However, it is hard to say whether the Ventlock itself will add much secure ventilation to the Element.

There are plenty of good reasons to leave a dog in a parked car. People who argue otherwise either don't own a dog, or haven't travelled any significant distance with it.

Yes, you should give considerable thought to the dog's safety, both as regards overheating, and theft. Some of the plusses of the Element are its tinted rear windows, popout side windows, and the skylight vent. I also frequently use a windshield sunshade, choose the parking spot with a eye toward the sun angle, and take advantage of any shade. The hotter the weather the shorter my time away from the car. I also choose my stops based on heating potential, choosing for example, fast food take out or a picnic lunch over a sitdown lunch while on vacation. I also check my dog when I return for any sign of over heating. An experienced dog owner knows how his dog behaves and looks when hot.

The Ventlock looks vaguely familiar, though a search does not turn up any earlier thread. There have been threads about ventilation and cooling the Element. If I were to get one, I'd choose the shortest. Note that most of their pictures show it's use on one piece tailgates. When used on the Element to hold the upper tailgate open, a person could still unlatch the lower one. However this won't increase the opening area much.

The Ventlock site also talks about ventilation options, and has the obvious cautions. The limitations of side windows and skylight ventilation that they list do not apply (as strongly) to the Element.

paulj

spdrcr5
10-30-2005, 12:01 PM
There are plenty of good reasons to leave a dog in a parked car. People who argue otherwise either don't own a dog, or haven't travelled any significant distance with it.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I have had dogs and have travelled with them many, many times. Something I would never, ever do is leave a dog in a parked car even for a "few minutes". It is called abuse pure and simple. Would you leave an infant in a parked car alone? They are just as helpless as a dig in a parked car.

paulj
10-30-2005, 12:41 PM
Do you leave your dog alone at home? Assuming it is neither excessively hot or cold, I do not see why leaving a dog in a car posses any more danger than leaving it in a house. My dog is quite capable of regulating his body temperature over a wide range of conditions - curling up when it is cold, stretching out and panting when warm. An infant cannot regulate his temperature as well. Plus an infant can be taken almost everywhere, while dogs are prohibited from entering most public and commercial buildings.

Of course I am more likely to leave my dog in the car when it is cool and overcast, as is often the case in the Seattle area, than if it was hot and sunny. However, if the choice is between leaving the dog in the car for a brief period, or outside where it might be stolen, I will opt for inside.

paulj

spdrcr5
10-30-2005, 02:31 PM
WOW! you are really going to compare the inside of a temperature regulated house with the sunbaked inside of a car/truck/van/suv? Come on Paul... this is something that every single animal organization is 100% against, yet you think is perfectly safe?

Your dog cannot, I repeat cannot regulate its temperature as well as you might think it can. It is one thing to curl up to try and remain warm... but how do you expect it to pant its way through a 160*F oven? It can't. Try putting on a fur coat and go out and sit in your car with windows cracked open an inch or two in the middle of the summer. See how long you last. Oh, you can't open the doors, you can't drink anything except 100*F water... how will you last like that? Oh, one more thing... don't forget to put on a wool hat as well, wouldn't want for you to have anyway to cool your body off.

Joe™
10-30-2005, 02:45 PM
Being from the South I think I know a bit about the heat that builds up on the inside of a car. You can leave your car for 15 mins and come back and it will be well over 100 F. It is an unsafe environment for any living being. Also, here is a quote that everyone should be familiar with.

"...researchers at Stanford University School of Medicine have shown that parked cars can heat just as quickly on mild days."

So if it is a nice 70 degrees outside, you still should not leave your pet in the car...just not a wise thing to do. Also, you should start asking yourself if you are doing the right thing by taking your pet with you anyways. The stress alone is not good, now you are baking them!

Leave your pet at home, do you really need to take them with you when you go shopping? NO!

Now on to people dressing up their pets... ;)

Hondamade4dogs
10-30-2005, 02:55 PM
OK here is what you need to do, Go to Petsmart and get the WindowGrate. It is a device that attaches (open window)to the top of window frame and you slide the other piece in the door frame itself (After adjusting). They sell for about $49.95. You could get this for the Element, but it doesn't fit right, It will keep the dogs in the locked car, but there is a 4 inch gap by the mirror. You keep both windows open and they are covered with the grates. I imagine you could rig up some crate material for the rear door and open the back glass... :|

paulj
10-30-2005, 06:26 PM
So if it is a nice 70 degrees outside, you still should not leave your pet in the car...just not a wise thing to do. Also, you should start asking yourself if you are doing the right thing by taking your pet with you anyways. The stress alone is not good, now you are baking them!


Let me clarify something - I am not advocating leaving a dog in a car when its interior temperature can rise above a 100 F. I am perfectly capable of observing the temperature in my Element both when I leave it, and when I return.

Today it was 55 F with overcast skys. I took the dog to a nearby park for a good hike, and then spent an hour shopping for groceries. The temperature in the car did not get above 59 F, and the dog was not in any danger.

What 'stress' are you talking about? The stress of riding the car? How about the stress of being left at home, separated from his pack? I've been taking my dog in the car since he was a puppy, both on short trips around town, and extended vacation trips. I know how he reacts to riding in the car, and how he handles being left in the car. That includes a 24 hr ferry ride, where I could only visit him every 4 hrs or so.

Saying 'never leave a pet alone in a parked car' is like saying 'do not cross the steet'. It is a good thing to tell a 6 year old who has little reasoning ability, but is an insult to an intelligent adult.

Back to the question of the Ventlock. I played around with the tailgate locking mechanism. It would be easy to test how much ventilation this device provides in the safety of your own driveway. A short bungee cord could be used to hold the upper tailgate down. Something like this needs to be tested in various conditions and for different lengths of time. It may help if the car is shaded and it is 70 F in the shade, but probably won't make much difference with full sun and 90F in the shade.

paulj

Joe™
10-30-2005, 06:42 PM
I'm not trying to question your intelligence, just question your knowledge about dogs. Dogs are often stressed when put into unknown situations and surroundings. You'll notice this when there is excessive panting.

Also, most animals are susceptible to motion sickness and should be given the proper medication before each trip.

"The SPCA recommends against transporting companion animals because doing so causes them stress and exposes them to potential dangers."

The #1 danger to pets is owner ignorance. And once again, I'm not pointing fingers, just stating an opinion.

So...I would not recommend the Ventlock or any product like it.

boneheadz
10-30-2005, 08:29 PM
I'm not trying to question your intelligence, just question your knowledge about dogs. Dogs are often stressed when put into unknown situations and surroundings. You'll notice this when there is excessive panting.

Also, most animals are susceptible to motion sickness and should be given the proper medication before each trip.

"The SPCA recommends against transporting companion animals because doing so causes them stress and exposes them to potential dangers."

The #1 danger to pets is owner ignorance. And once again, I'm not pointing fingers, just stating an opinion.

So...I would not recommend the Ventlock or any product like it.

Your kidding right?

Your saying my dog should never go for a car ride to the bark-park, or to the cabin?

If that is the SPCA's advice then they are just nuts. (sorry, just my opinion) There is responsible pet care, which I think the person with the vent-lock question is practicing, and there is going over board. It is not ignorant to have your dog in the car while you pee at a show it is just a reality.

bone

Joe™
10-31-2005, 12:03 AM
What are you talking about, I put my dog in the car all the time. :grin: I'm just stating what the "experts" at the SPCA recommends.

boneheadz
10-31-2005, 12:45 AM
What are you talking about, I put my dog in the car all the time. :grin: I'm just stating what the "experts" at the SPCA recommends.


Uh, did I miss something.

bone

de_lyn
10-31-2005, 12:56 AM
I hope you find something that works for you. I'm not a pet, so I really can't speak for it. I'm sure you're a responsible pet owner. Happy hunting!

paulj
10-31-2005, 02:35 AM
If a Ventlock (or similar prop) is used on the Element tailgate, you will have to lock the car with the key in the driver's door. The remote does not work when any door is open. The remote will unlock it.

1stpik
10-31-2005, 04:18 AM
Another respondent questioned how leaving a dog in a car differs from leaving it at home. Here's the diff; You can't regulate the temperature in a car, and it changes with amazing speed. Enough has appeared already regarding the effect of the sun on the interior temp. of a car. However, even in the shade, the radiant heat from your car's engine will drive up the interior temperature.

I found that out last summer. I cracked open the windows and left my dog in the car for 10 minutes in an underground garage -- completely shaded and cooler than the outside air. Still, when I returned the interior was uncomfortably hot, and my poor li'l dog was panting heavily.

That was a real eye-opener.

Before you leave your dog in the car, try leaving yourself in the car. Just run your normal errands, but park your car at each store and sit in it for 10 or 15 minutes before you go in. I think you'll find that even a mild outside temperature will result in an uncomfortable interior temperature. And if it's uncomfortable to you, then it's cruel for your pet.

I'd say that days in the 50s or 60s are safe enough for pets in cars. But anything above the mid-70s . . . just don't do it.

Hondamade4dogs
10-31-2005, 07:48 AM
When I think of a hot dog in the car...this comes to mind :roll:

paulj
10-31-2005, 11:16 AM
The size and temperment of the dog will also make a difference. A large, long hair dog is going to feel the heat sooner than a small, short hair one. An active one that bounces around the car barking at every passing person is going to heat up faster than one that is snoozing in the back seat.

Engine heat is a consideration, though with some cross ventilation from the side windows and skylight it shouldn't affect temperatures in the back that much. With the added ventilation of the partially open tailgate, this would be even less of an issue. Engine heat was more of a factor my pickup - due to the small cab size and the large engine size.

paulj

hiker chick
10-31-2005, 04:52 PM
Poor Betty, she asks a reasonable question and the thread immediately goes off the rails. She cares enough to be researching a ventilation device so it's doubtful she's ignorant of leaving a dog in a hot car. If she had posted this query during the summer instead of on the cusp of November, the alarm sounding would make some sense. For all we know, she lives in Alaska and icicles are hanging off her E!

I am among those who sometimes takes my dog on errands when it is cool. Would not leave her in the car in the sun unless temps were in the 30s or less. It's quite safe to leave them in the car if it's in the 50s and cloudy. 70s is definately too warm, rain or sunshine. Humidity is also a big factor in parts of the country.

Gidget likes to travel with me and, temperature permitting, I will continue to bring her along. To further flaunt my abject irresponsibility, let it be known that my Gidget (a Samoyed) happily rode shotgun coast-to-coast-to-coast with me in a Miata last year. Her predecessor, also a Samoyed, also lived a well-travelled convertible life for all her 14 years (Alfa Romeo and Miata). Sun, sun, sun.

Truly it is good to see so many animal lovers on this forum but some need to be a bit less shrill and presumptious about the actions of others.

Betty -- does your pup ride in a crate? A friend of mine has two Samoyeds that ride in crates in the back of her Explorer and when she stops she turns on their crate fans (battery operated, they attach to the crate doors) and she leaves the back window up. Of course, one would not do that everywhere and not while on an extended shopping trip.

I simply crank my windows down 3" or 4" -- not to the point that someone could easily unlock the doors. Cracking the sunroof would also help but I don't leave Gidget in situations where open windows are the margin of safety.

Betty
10-31-2005, 05:46 PM
I would like to thank you all for all of your suggestions and ideas. I had no idea when I asked about the Ventlock I would unleash (no pun intended) such debates.

I do not keep my dog in a crate but she is extremely happy in the way back of the Element. She has never had any interest in climbing over the seats. When traveling, there are times I cannot bring her into restaurants, stores, etc. Also, when on the highway, bathroom stops can be a problem so again, I would like to keep the car as cool as possible. This is why I have been researching ways to better ventilate the back of the car. I am extremely careful about leaving her and only do so for short periods. I check on her frequently, look for deep shade, and don't stop if it is too hot. I keep water in the back with her at all times. She loves to ride in the car as have all of my dogs and I am extremely careful.

Still can't decide about the Ventlock but will check it out at the Boston Dog Show in December and see what I think. Thank you all again for your thoughts on the matter.

ramblerdan
10-31-2005, 11:55 PM
Do you have AWD? If so take out the sunroof. It would be a determined dog thief indeed who'd climb in that way.

Hondamade4dogs
11-01-2005, 07:50 AM
This is how my dogs ride, sometimes they jump from the front to the back, Abby likes to ride shotgun, and bear, he doesn't care, just as long as he gets to go. I crate them for the longer trips, but usually they ride in the seat. They Love the Hot car ! :lol: We do not have vent lock, But sometimes when we are driving for a longtime, I wish they had ventlock for their butt. Whew ! :lol: :grin: