Any recent thoughts on smoothing out the highway ride in an Element (less harsh/choppy)?

A review of recent threads suggests that better tires

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=HAS

will definitely eliminate the road noise from the OEM Wranglers as well as improve wet traction. But assuming optimum tire pressure is used for the better as well as the OEM Wranglers - I'm unclear whether better tires will actually provide a smoother ride? Possibly, single use tires that are specifically intended for highway use and not recommended for off-road will actually make a difference (smoother ride) - but I'm not sure. For example, from tirerack.com "The Michelin LTX M/S offers optimal durability and traction in combination with exceptional mileage and the classic Michelin smooth, quiet ride . . . If you, like most light truck owners, spend a lot more time on the road than off, the LTX M/S gives you the manners of a car tire. . . "

Besides upgrading the tires, other options seem to be lowering springs, which if anything are reported to worsen the ride quality, but improve the handling. Any other options that have been tried out.

The single biggest change you can make is to upgrade the tires on a vehicle. If you find the Wranglers too harsh, look for a touring tire.

The Wranglers are among the worst tires I've ever owned. They aren't round, ride rough, and are miserable for traction unless it is completely dry.

You're dealing with a vehicle that has a relatively shot wheelbase and is stiffly sprung to begin with, while tires may help you're really fighting an uphill battle.

Mike.

What kinds of bumps or roughness are bothering you? While some roughness or noise may be attributed to the tires, they certainly can't be blamed for a choppy ride over expansion joints. As another poster said, the Element has a relatively short wheelbase, and a relatively stiff suspension tuning. Almost every suspension modification that people talk about here will only make the ride stiffer - lower profile tires, bigger wheels, lowering, stiffer sway bars, etc.

People do claim their new tires improve the ride, but, it isn't obvious what features would make a difference. According to the Wrangler HP blurb on Tirerack
The Wrangler HP is Goodyear's Highway All-Season light truck tire often used as Original Equipment on sporty pickups and sport utility vehicles like the Cadillac Escalade, Dodge Ram and Durango RT, Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo and the Land Rover Discovery 4.6 HSE.
Is the Escalade a rough riding SUV?

paulj

... Possibly, single use tires that are specifically intended for highway use and not recommended for off-road will actually make a difference (smoother ride) ...

Unlikely. When I switched to Dueler Alenzas --- a quality, non-off-road "highway" tire --- I noticed virtually no ride quality difference. The stock Goodyears, sucky though they are, are already a smooth-riding tire, so you already know what you've got.

Or you could try CR-V springs; they are softer and are likely a direct fit.

Remember, the Element was designed to appeal to 20-30 year olds, who (probably) favour handling over ride quality, hence the stiff ride. Also IIRC the Element struts/shocks are shorter than the CRVs...

Mike.

Or you could try CR-V springs; they are softer and are likely a direct fit.I'm not sure about CR-V springs fitting an Element. I remember reading somewhere that the E uses a modified version of the CR-V's rear suspension in order to provide a flat floor in the cargo area. Because of that, the springs are probably different. Does anyone know for sure?

I looked it up they are NOT the same part #

No, I didn't say they were the same part # --- why would I suggest replacing the E's springs with the same exact thing?

What I said is that they are likely a direct fit. But they may not fit --- nobody but Honda knows for sure unless somebody has already tried it. On the other hand, the diagrams for both rear springs/shocks look identical to me. I don't know that the springs and shocks are shorter, although they may be.

What I do know is that the step-in seems higher on my E than it is for my folk's '02 CR-V --- and these things likely share the same floorplan and suspension mounting points. Confused? You should be.


The Element weighs a bit more than the CR-V and that was the main reason it was given stiffer springs. The shocks are presumed stiffer although may not be.

Anyway, I got to thinking about this last night and I'm wrong about the E benefitting from softer springs. :roll:

I'm also no longer a believer in the short-wheelbase theory. Lots of vehicles have shorter wheelbases and don't bounce. The first-gen CR-V has a shorter wheelbase, sits up high and doesn't bounce.

The main reason any vehicle feels bouncier is because the shocks aren't keeping up with a given spring rate. Extreme examples of this would be cars dropped to the ground with short, stiff springs but still have stock shocks. All of a sudden, bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy, and it gets worse if the shocks blow out. Put high quality shocks on there, and magic can result.

Think about this for a minute. The E has a pretty smooth ride, not harsh. It doesn't crash over potholes and slam around on bumps. And, a significant load will visibly lower the ride height a bunch --- the springs aren't all that stiff.

But when you hit a dip in the road, the suspension has a bit of drama to it. The whole dip, instead of being quickly absorbed and dissipated, becomes a dramatic up-and-down bounce. Stiffer shocks would quell that.

It is not surprising that the suspension handles potholes differently than dips.

Shocks that work well with potholes might not do so well with dips, and v.v. The sway bars play a role when a tire hits a pothole, since they act as springs linking the right and left wheels. On the other hand, when both wheels hit a dip, the sway bar doesn't do much. So the spring 'constant' is different for a pothole v. a dip. Another difference is in the shape of typical pothole v. a dip - one is abrupt, the other tends to be smoother. Dips associated with expansion joints also have a periodicity that is rare with potholes.

paulj

Thanks for the expert comments. It appears that not much can be done realistically to smooth out the ride.

The reason why I asked the question (smoothing out the ride?) is that I recently moved to the Wash. D.C. area and the choppy Element ride is now much more noticiable and annoying at higher speed and longer distance commuting. I hate to give up the utility of the Element, hence I was hoping that I could somehow "upgrade" the Element to improve the ride quality. Otherwise, I'll likely buy an 06 civic sedan, which rides great and will almost double my fuel economy.

I just purchased some Yokohama Geolanders yesterday and drove my usual 50/50 of street and freeway driving for the day. I definately noticed an improved handeling and a bit of a smoother ride. I noticed that certain places where on my stock tires my E would have felt a joly was softened a bit. But as was stated before me the E was created with a relatively stiff suspension and there isn't much in the way of 100% rectifying it that I know of. So far I love my Yoko's and can't wait for the next big rain to really try em out!

Deckeda = No, I didn't say they were the same part # --- why would I suggest replacing the E's springs with the same exact thing?

It has been my Experance that some auto makers use the same spring for other modles in their car lineup. They may shorten the distance from the lower mount to the top mount to change the spring rate. Thats the reason i looked at the spring's part #.

When I was raceing My 1969 Z-28 at limerock Ct.( in 1969 ) We heated the spring to cherry hot, then bounced on the fender to lower the car, and stiffen the springs. It gained me 2 sec. a lap. The following year with a 1970 Trans-Am (that was low enough as it was) we used Ols. 442 springs in front to increase the spring rate. We had to cut off one coil on top and 1/2 coil on the lower end, to get the proper ride hight. That change worked well.

When I look at my 03 CRV I find that the springs are the same Top upper and lower as my 05 E !! With the cars jacked up (tires hainging ) I find the Crv Spring to be 2 in. longer than the E. Now that may have been do to the fact that Honda used the same spring, and just changed the distance between the mountings. THAT IS NOT THE CASE !!! They are not the same part #.

Now if you put in a CRV spring that is longer in a shorter space that Will change the Spring rate. So if you do try a CRV spring you may have to trim it to the same size as the spring you are replaceing to keep from stiffining the Ride .

Get it ? If not I can go to my local spring shop. One of the workers used to race with me. They can get Spifics on the spring rates, and tell me what needs to be done to soften the ride.

... When I was raceing My 1969 Z-28 at limerock Ct.( in 1969 ) ...

OK, you now officially have my attention! :shock: You raced SCCA back in the day? Now, if you tell me you drove the Sunoco car and that your name is Mr. Gurney I may have to wet myself.

And I like the inexpensive and ingenious approach you all had back then to a particular racing challenge. I understand that back then you didn't have the option of picking a part made for doing that up at the local store.

But you gotta know that modifying a stock spring isn't the best way, even if it produces some of the characteristics you're trying to achieve with respect to ride height or rate.

Back to the Element/CR-V comparison. Yeah, we know the springs aren't the same, and that if you were to place them side by side on a table the CR-V spring would likely be longer, because softer springs are often longer springs.

I don't know that you'd have to shorten a CR-V spring to make it fit, and if you did, wouldn't you just be stiffening it up?

At any rate, if you were to replace an Element's springs with something softer (which I don't think is really the answer here anyway ... ) they would have to be longer springs, else the car would sit lower on softer springs of the same length. So we're back to unmodified CR-V springs.

They can get Spifics on the spring rates, and tell me what needs to be done to soften the ride.

They have a way of measuring this if you take it in I suppose? It isn't as if you'd get the data from Honda ...

I'm told that the data is available. has to do with veical weight and spring rate.

No the last name is not Gurney. I did race on the same track at the same time in the same class, Well sort of. Gurney, Jones, Donahue showed up at the track with 5 to 7K in tires I had 5k in the HOLE car.

But last year at the holman 100 at the fair grounds in Indy. I sat with and talked to P. Jones for the first time in over 30 years.
Patty My wife, is from indy. We have been going to the 500 race for years,,,,, lets see maried in 1974 went to the first race when we started dateing 1971. Been there every year will go next year also.

Dom

What kind of rough ride are you all speaking of? My E has been smooth. My driving has been limited to city and highway, so far. I feel that my E is as smooth as my PathFinder was, if not more refind. The only roughness that I have experience is driving on parts of I-95 that are still under construction. I feel that any car would offer a more rough drive on these types of construction areas.