Is it worth it to make the switch?

Will it improve my engines' performance?

Will it allow me to go longer between oil changes? (currently go 5K... would it allow me to go 7 or 10K?)


I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to this type of stuff so any help would be much appreciated http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

I have used various brands of synthetic over the past 15 years or so. Here in VT, where it does get very cold, my vehicles start easier with synthetic. I think there are additional benefits- resistance to heat and oil change intervals among them. I would not plan for long change intervals, but if an extra 3000-5000 goes on the car between changes, I don't worry about it.

I do my own changes, so the cost increment is not as bad. Most drivers will not task an oil hard enough for it to matter but I like the idea of using an oil that is designed for its purpose rather than refined to do the best job it can.

Only an oil analysis can tell you if extended changes will be possible but I would bet money on it.

I have used various brands of synthetic over the past 15 years or so. Here in VT, where it does get very cold, my vehicles start easier with synthetic. I think there are additional benefits- resistance to heat and oil change intervals among them. I would not plan for long change intervals, but if an extra 3000-5000 goes on the car between changes, I don't worry about it.

I do my own changes, so the cost increment is not as bad. Most drivers will not task an oil hard enough for it to matter but I like the idea of using an oil that is designed for its purpose rather than refined to do the best job it can.

Only an oil analysis can tell you if extended changes will be possible but I would bet money on it.

Honda recommends not using synthetic. Something to do with the gap between the pistons and cylinder walls .... FYI .....

When I had a 30,000 mile oil change, the dealer offered synthetic - at double the cost ($60 v $30 for the basic change). They were recommending this for 'older' cars like mine. Synthetic was supposed to allow me to double the service interval from 5000 to 10,000 miles. If that claim is correct, synthetic ends up costing the same as regular.

However, the Element manual is already specifying a 10,000 mile service interval (for 'regular' use). On the other hand, dealers always claim that their local driving conditions qualify as 'heavyduty' and require the more frequent 5000 mile interval.

I declined.

paulj

"Honda recommends not using synthetic. Something to do with the gap between the pistons and cylinder walls .... FYI ....."

where is this?


fwiw, i use mobil1 and happily change the oil every 10k miles. the old oil is darker coming out than going in, but not so dark as plain old non-syn oil.

Our dealer uses Quaker state Synthetic,( The 100% Synthetic ) on all the Hondas that go in for an oil change. I thought that Quaker state was a 50/50 blend. He showed me the 55 gal drum. It shows 100% Synthetic on it. I looked in the Owners hand book, I cant find any place that it states to NOT use it.

Honda recommends not using synthetic. Something to do with the gap between the pistons and cylinder walls .... FYI .....


Where did you get this info?........... SOUNDS LIKE BULLCRAP TO ME!!!!!!!

Here is the deal.....Amsoil 0w30 or 5w30 AND Amsoil Ea-013 oil filter....
Once a year or 25K......... Do some reading guys!!!!!!
I can't understand why you guys are letting people that "know"
RIP YOU OFF!!!!! Just my $0.02 ( and I'm an old timer).

I used Mobil one for the 25,000 miles that my first Element was alive. I don't think it made any real difference in gas milage, start up ect. I think if my son might have not wrecked it, the engine may have lasted longer than regular oil. I liked that fact that if I did not have the time to change it, I could add an additional 1000 miles with out worrying.

I am debating if I should use it on my new Element. I am thinking about going synthetic after the first 15,000 miles and doing the changes myself. But not have not made up my mind. You can use synthetic in your Element, no problem.

Here is the deal.....Amsoil 0w30 or 5w30 AND Amsoil Ea-011 oil filter....
Once a year or 25K......... Do some reading guys!!!!!!
I can't understand why you guys are letting people that "know"
RIP YOU OFF!!!!! Just my $0.02 ( and I'm an old timer).


Um.... wha??? :| :twisted: :confused:

At 4:00pm today,after my last post, I wiped off a call to Honda USA. They told me that someone would call me back. At 5:03 PM. an Engeneer from the Tech. Staff returned my call.


" SYNTHETIC OIL IS OK> ,,, If fact it's Best "

Thats what they told me !


Wanted to post after the call But had things to do.

However, the Element manual is already specifying a 10,000 mile service interval (for 'regular' use). On the other hand, dealers always claim that their local driving conditions qualify as 'heavyduty' and require the more frequent 5000 mile interval.

My experience:

EVERY DEALER WILL SAY THAT YOU QUALIFY FOR HEAVYDUTY FREQUENCY.

Jeesh.

It doesn't matter if you are a 90 year old grandmother that only drives her car on Sunday to church, almost all dealers will tell you that you must use the "severe service" maintenance section of the manual.
"Only 5 miles a week? We live in Minnesota/Nevada/Arizona/Virgina/Oregon/whereever, and the weather here is extreme enough that we recommend that EVERYONE follow the "severe service" schedule. Just think, it's cheap insurance"

Translation:
"We make money two ways: When you buy the car, and when you bring it back in for service. We can't make you buy cars more frequently, but if we can make you double up your maintenance schedule, we can double our income"

Of course, if you want to, go ahead. I'll save the money that I'm not giving the dealer and spend it on accessories and/or save it for later.

Flame away.

"Honda recommends not using synthetic. Something to do with the gap between the pistons and cylinder walls .... FYI ....."

where is this?


fwiw, i use mobil1 and happily change the oil every 10k miles. the old oil is darker coming out than going in, but not so dark as plain old non-syn oil.
Service Engineering Dept ......

You hit the nail on the head, Hammersmn.

I let my dealer do the first oil change, at 10,000 miles, and they left a little "reminder" sticker on my windshield to let me know the next change would be due at 13,000!

Honda recommends not using synthetic. Something to do with the gap between the pistons and cylinder walls .... FYI .....


Do you know that when you buy a new car from honda, they used synhetic oil to break your engine down and no change oil for the first 10000 miles.:D

Also synthetic oil makes your engine runs better, it's what pro racing used when they race.

Do you know that when you buy a new car from honda, they used synhetic oil to break your engine down and no change oil for the first 10000 miles.:D

Also synthetic oil makes your engine runs better, it's what pro racing used when they race.
OK Then ....

I think thats silly that they would recommend putting synthetic oil in a higher milaged E if it hasn't been running synthetic the whole time.

I thought...

1) You were only to use synthetic if you had been using it the entire time
and
2) If you put synthetic on a high milage car that hasn't been running synthetic the whole time...it will find holes actually make them worse causing massive oil leaks.....

again this is just what i've been told in the past, what do you think?

I started using Synthetic when my 92 volvo hit 150,000 miles. Many people start late, the point is that the engine has less stress with the synthetic oil. If you have a hole in your engine it is going to leak no matter what oil you use.

Scroll down to the "Paid for synthetic oil... got regular?Help? thread and read the last two posts by crackerjax and SPDRCR5. Engines last longer on synthetic due to reduced wear. Laboratory fact. Question:If you had to a move heavy object across the floor, would you place gravel or ball bearings under it? That is basically the molecular difference between conventional oil (gravel) and synthetic( ball bearings) There are "True synthetics" and bogus "hydroisomerized" synthetics. They are not equal in performance. Break in the engine first on conventional and about 10k or so switch to "true synthetic". There are claims that synthetic oil causes leaks. What really occurs is that someone will run an engine on conventional oil for 100k or so and then switch. The synthetic "cleans" the sludge build up (around the main seals) that was affecting a seal itself and the worn seal naturally leaks because the sludge dam is gone. Done right and maintained you will have a longer lasting engine. Is itworth it? Personal choice. Use a good filter. Hope:) this helps

If you had to a move heavy object across the floor, would you place gravel or ball bearings under it? That is basically the molecular difference between conventional oil (gravel) and synthetic( ball bearings) s

Nice post! You put it in easy to read terms. Being a non-engineer guy myself, I appreciate it! My Element currently has 4200 miles on it. I am going to go ahead and use regular at 5,000 miles then go synthetic at 10,000. What interval should I use once I go synthetic. I drive to work 40 miles round trip every day, and take a couple of 2-5 mile trips a week. I live in Lancaster PA.

I completely agree with what crackerjax posted, and I'd like to add the following from the FAQ on Mobil1's website:

Myth: You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to a synthetic oil like Mobil 1.
Reality: You can start using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology in new vehicles at any time, even in brand new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:

* Aston Martin
* Bentley Amage and Bentley GT
* Cadillac CTS, XLR, SRX and STS
* Chevrolet Corvette
* Dodge Viper
* Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
* Mercedes SLR
* Mitsubishi EVO
* Pontiac GTO
* All Porsche vehicles

One of the myths that surrounds synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Mobil 1 can be used starting the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.

Myth: Using Mobil 1 will void the warranty on my new car.
Reality: Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology will not void new car warranties, with the exception of the Mazda rotary engine (Mazda does not recommend any synthetic motor oil). Mobil 1 exceeds the API and ILSAC motor oil service requirements for all new vehicles, both import and domestic. If in doubt, always check your vehicle owner's manual or contact your vehicle's manufacturer.

Myth: Mobil 1 will leak out of the seals of older cars.
Reality: Mobil 1 does not cause leaks. In fact, new Mobil 1 was tested in dozens of industry standard and OEM tests to prove its seal performance. It is fully compatible with the elastomeric materials from which all automotive seals and gaskets are made. If an older engine is in good condition and does not have oil leaks, Mobil 1 provides the same advantages as when used in a new engine. ExxonMobil recommends taking measures to repair the leaks, then using Mobil 1. ExxonMobil also recommends following the automobile manufacturer's manual for the proper oil to use.

In my own personal experience with synthetic in several different vehicles, it can make a big difference in some and little difference in others. It depends on the tolerences of the engine and the quality of it's construction. The biggest difference I've seen when switching to synthetic was in a '90 Ford Ranger 4-cylinder. The engine was MUCH quieter,smoother and performed almost like a v6. You could literally HEAR the engine get quieter as the synthetic worked it's way into all the crevaces in the head. I've also tried it on a '93 Prelude (mild difference), '93 Nissan Kingcab (little difference), '96 Taurus SHO v8 (little difference), and my last vehicle, an '01 Civic (no perceivable difference). Looking back and thinking it through, I can reasonable assume that the Civic and SHO probably had some sort of synthetic or half-syn already installed, so that would explain their imperceivable difference.

On the other topic of easier starts with synthetic, I can personally vouch that my cars have always started easier in the winter when they had synthetic in them. It seems to "stick" to the parts better and ease the grinding of cold starts better than dino oil. Your battery needs all the help it can get to turn that cold engine in the winter.

I can also say that you can go much longer between oil changes. The facts are that with synthetic oil, there's less friction. The more friction you have in the motor, the dirtier it gets and faster. After all, the buildup in the oil that makes it dirty is metal from the parts rubbing together and when you use synthetic, it eases the friction so that the oil doesn't get dirty as fast. The 3000 mile change recommendation was created by oil companies and dealerships to get you back in their shops and charge you for oil changes you don't yet need. Even dino oil could go to at least 5000 miles. The owners manual shows even higher. I've went 7000 miles between changes on synthetic and it still wasn't very dirty!!

Use your own judgement based on how you drive.

Ah ha. The oil thread. Honda sells a 50/50 blend to use in their motorcycles. BMW"s come with synethetic oil installed from the beginning. Suzuki (motorcycles) recommends 5K miles before switching from dino oil. I use Mobile one in our T-Bird. You can go longer between changes, but I don't. Oil is very cheap maintenance. Most important. Do not drive a block to the service station to change oil. Or back your car out of the garage. The oil needs to be at operating temperture in order to drain properly and carry with it anything suspended in it. It tickles me when someone will pay 20K for a vehicle and skimp on oil changes. Also the folks that will start their car. Stone cold. And zoom away. Most wear occurs in the first minute. Let the old girl catch her breath before you zoom, zoom.

Just my take on it. Oil that is.

I run Amsoil (Mobil 1 is fine too) for 6k to 8k and change the filter in the middle of the milage (3k to 4k) if the conditions warrant. You can at least double the milage over conventional change intervals with only changing the oil and using the same filter until you change again. DO NOT change the oil without changing the filter. Use a quality filter. :D

I started running synthetic oil in a 1996 Saab 900S that had over 90,000 miles.

The result was a more quiet engine... especially at start up on a cold day.
no oil leaks
improved my gas mileage around 1.5 miles per gallon.

and finally.... 10,000 mile oil changes. That rocks! Besides... the 3000 mile change is a myth created by the oil and auto industry to increase profits.

FYI
http://www.xs11.com/stories/croil96.htm


Merry Christmas
HUTMO


I thought...

1) You were only to use synthetic if you had been using it the entire time
and
2) If you put synthetic on a high milage car that hasn't been running synthetic the whole time...it will find holes actually make them worse causing massive oil leaks.....

again this is just what i've been told in the past, what do you think?[/quote]

I started using Mobil 1 in 1978 when it first came out at $4.00/quart in my brand new 1978 Datsun 280Z. By 1981 when I took a road trip to Florida from Chicago, I was adding a quart of oil every 500 miles. I don't know if the seals back then could not handle synthetic oil, or if synthetic oil was different then, but I have never used it since.

Since that time, I have religiously changed my oil and filter every 3000 miles, and I have never had an engine fail, leak, or use oil etc., since then.

I am debating when to do my first oil change 3k or 5k)

I know what I do is "old school", but I think it is cheap preventive maintenance to insure long trouble free life from an engine. (I had my 1991 Accord 12 years 120,000 miles, and it never used oil or leaked, and is still going strong with its second owner).

1Mrdad the 1978 Datsun's required brakein b-4 the change to Synthetic oil. If you did not put 20 to 25,000 on the engine, the rings would never seat. That will cause the engine to use oil.
I had a 260Z that I raced. I changed off to mobile one when it came out. I had over 35,000 in the engine at the time. When raceing with standard oil. I would use about 1/2 qrt. every 3 or 4 heats. When I changed off to Synthetic the oil useage rate did not change. It stayed the same. You must understand that I was beating this engine on the road corse.
When I sold the car, the kid that got it put the interor back in and drove it on the Street. I spoke with him after a year or so. He was not using any oil at all. By that time the cer had 90,+ K on it ..

I think the key was to brake in the engine first. On the new cars that is not a manditory thing. The internal engerneering has changed. So has the recomended brake in. It's gone, dealer tells you, Drive like you always do, No brake in required !

This doesn't apply directly, but Caterpillar Diesel says that approved synthetic base oils "have improved flow rates at low temperatures" and "have improved oxidation stability particularly at high temperatures." Also Caterpillar's greases and tranmission fluids use a synthetic base.

Given the cost of commercial diesel engines (Lot's more than an entire car) I'll stick with good synthetics (like Mobile one) that meet the manufacture's specs. I don't know that the E engine is any quieter but I'm more comfortable with using Mobile One.

Ah the heck with it! Its his car... Let him decide what to use. :D

The Element specified 5-W-20 oil, which most people rave about as a very good oil, and it is an energy conserving oil. People often call it semi-synthetic. In fact, many oils labelled synthetic are not in fact synthetic. Don't ask me how this is legal. My old 1990 Accord went over 360 K on ordinary 10-W-30 Pennzoil and Quaker State, despite an instant oil change guy stripping the oil pan threads resulting in the loss of three quarts of oil on the highway. Aren't you going to get rid of the vehicle one way or another before you rack up half a million miles? If so, it doesn't matter what type of oil you use, as long as it meets Honda's specs.

My hubby is an Amsoil dealer and weve always had better running cars ever since we started using Amsoil, and when its time to change the oil in my new element its going to be going in it too. so i guess it just depends on what kind of oil people are wanting. My anual saids it dont matter what kind it is as long as its API cerified, and Amsoil is API cerified.

for what i have known and used mobile 1 full syntech for almost 11 years...
full syntech oil will not produce as much carbon deposite as conventional oil and the oil temperature will be more consistance.. reduce friction wear better
my 03 element has 21k miles now.and i have been feed it mobile 1 full syn since first time oil change at 3000 miles..and in fact. tomorrow.i am going in for another oil change..

My hubby is an Amsoil dealer and weve always had better running cars ever since we started using Amsoil, and when its time to change the oil in my new element its going to be going in it too. so i guess it just depends on what kind of oil people are wanting. My anual saids it dont matter what kind it is as long as its API cerified, and Amsoil is API cerified.

You could not force me to use Amsoil. (Their oil may be good, but I just don't like the company.)

API rating is only half the story. Saying an oil meets a minimum API standard is just fine. I want oils that exceed the most current/best API standard, and Mobil 1 does. It's what happens when an oil is subjucted to non-standard conditions where synthetics stand out.

Another characteristic of synthetics is that they are stable at much higher temperatures. Dino based oils will begin to char and oxidize at a lower temperature, which fortunately engines working and in good condition rarely encounter. However, that one time you lose a hose and overheat, synthetics can make the difference in not having a ruined engine.

Since synthetics are not paraffin based, they also do not cloud and flocculate at low temperatures. This means they remain pourable and don't become semi-solid in extreme weather.

It's been a while since my Mechanical Engineering oil labs, but I will never voluntarily stop using a full synthetic.

Wow am I reviving an old thread or what? I was just wondering, I have read everything in this thread, and am very interested in switching to Mobil 1 synthetic. I bought 6 quarts of 5w-20 today. My E has 34k miles on it, from what I have been reading I should be ok switching to the synthetic and throwing 7k on it comfortably? Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanx!:D

This is a germane thread.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12206&highlight=part+number

I go 8-10 with out a change I use Mobil 1.

Thanks Rocket, that is a huge thread, but I got some very interesting information regarding the filters on the first 6 pages...havn't gone further than that...Ill have to run out to the garage to see if I got the AO1's from HandA or the A02's ..either way I think I did better getting either one of those than amsoil or whatever there name is and other filters....
cheers!:D

The 6 pack of oil filters I ordered from HandA are unfortuneately the A02's :-(

This is a germane thread.




Dieses Gewinde hat nichts, mit sprechendem Deutschem zu tun.

Dieses Gewinde hat nichts, mit sprechendem Deutschem zu tun.


I KNEW somebody would do that...it was just a question of who.

:cool: