Ok, I have done a search for MP3 players but all it has done is made me more confused. I think I would like to get into the digital world and need help picking out a player. Thought it was going to be easy and just pick up an Ipod Nano, but after reading the reviews of battery problems and failures not so sure now.

I am going to “rip” from cd’s and also download from websites, but would like a unit that is easy to work with.

So what brands/model should I be looking at? Should I be looking for a flash drive or hard drive? What is “PlaysForSure”? What features should I look at?

Any help would be appreciated.

Ok, I have done a search for MP3 players but all it has done is made me more confused. I think I would like to get into the digital world and need help picking out a player. Thought it was going to be easy and just pick up an Ipod Nano, but after reading the reviews of battery problems and failures not so sure now.

I am going to “rip” from cd’s and also download from websites, but would like a unit that is easy to work with.

So what brands/model should I be looking at? Should I be looking for a flash drive or hard drive? What is “PlaysForSure”? What features should I look at?

Any help would be appreciated.

Well lets see. What is your price range? And how much storage (amount of mp3 songs) would you like to put on your mp3 player? The most popular mp3 players out there are Ipods and Creative Zen model mp3 players. Some of the other people on the board may know me as a recent ipod hater as I have been through 3 ipods in less than a year, but that might just be me.

Ipod's are probably the easiest mp3 players on the planet. You can get super small ones like the "ipod nano" which holds 2 or 4 gigs worth of soungs (roughly 1000-2000) and range in price from $200-$250. These come with color screens and various other bells and whistles. As you mentioned ipods do have battery problems...they degrade like crazy! Replacement of a battery is steep if you dont want to do it yourself, which is quite a task in itself. Ipod also sells mp3 players that play dvd's as well. Go on www.cnet.com and type in ipod for extensive reviews on them.

Now for the creative zen model mp3 players. This is where "Plays For Sure" comes in. This simply mean that this brand of mp3 player works accordingly with several mp3 dowloading sights and excets wma, mp3, and i believe one other format of music (something the ipod does not do). There are very many zen models to choose from varying in size, cost, and features. There 2 latest mp3 players are the micro photo (which is a 6 or 8 gig mp3 player that is smaller than most cell phones, has a color screen, can upload pictures, holds between 1,500 and 2,500 songs, and even has a built in fm transmitter so you can play your music wirelessly in your car; but isnt allways a great sound wirelessly.) and then the other new one is the 30 gig video they have out that is about the size of an ipod, only thicker and has everything i mentioned on the last mp3 player, but also plays dvd's that you upload. The key thing about these is they have a user replaceable battery for $40! You just pop out the battery like a cell phone and pop in another one! No hassle of replacement!

I hope this helps, even though I am biased against ipod now you will find many pro ipod lovers here on EOC. Try www.cnet.com or go pick up a consumer report magazine. Decide how much you are willing to pay for an mp3 player, how many songs you would like it to hold, and what features you are really interested in.

P.S. the battery life on creatives has been tested and performs much better than ipods!

About the hard drive vs. flash drive. If you plan to exercise with this mp3 player, get a flash drive (nano holds the most songs for a flash drive available). Also hard drives tend to have more problems (more parts that move = more problems). But this isnt always the case. I will be purchasing a Creative Zen 8 Gigabyte Micro Photo in the near future and that is a hard drive because 4 gigs of music isnt enough for me!

I have an iRiver H10 20g. Very good player. It has a color screen and a few nice features. It has an adjustable equalizer that is very good. It's not real small but not as big as you may think. It can be found for under $250. Not bad for a quality player. You have to use Windows Media Player to sync and view your files but I don't mind. There isn't a lot of accessories available for it but it's a solid performer. Another good player is the Creative m30. I have been looking at this one. From what I hear it's an awesome player that can also play video. I may trade up but I'm happy with the iRiver for now.
I don't care for iPods because they kind of hold you hostage to their world.
I think they are over priced for what you get. Check out buydig.com for price and reference on different players.They are trustworthy to deal with at least by my experience.

I think the big question is "how much capacity do you want/need." I bought a SanDisk 512 MB for about $70.00 US. It holds over a hundred songs and plays for about 15 hours on one AAA battery. I bought a cable that plugs into my Element's "AUX" jack and the player sounds great on the Element's radio. The player is very easy to load with songs or change songs by plugging in the USB cable to XP and dragging and dropping the songs from "My Music" list. This set-up works really well for me and it's relatively inexpensive. You may need something different but only you can decide.

I have avoided the issue entirely for the moment. I rip wma discs, and I get 200+ tunes on one. I'm all about music, not images, so the added features of the players don't matter to me. The difficulty comes in navigating to what I want.

I cheese my way around this by hitting random until I get in the ball park. Then I skip fwd/back a couple tracks to get where I want to go.

The thing about the players to me is, they better hold a whole lot. After all, I can get 700 Mb on a disc, so if you have a 2 Gb player, I can match the storage with 3 discs. And if you have a large library (I have about 400 prerecorded), wouldn't you just end up changing the playlist around constantly, deleting this and adding that?

For next to nothing I can make discs with themes to help me keep it straight.

Happy Rio Karma (20Gig) owner for the last 2 years.

I'm new to the mp3 thing but happy to contribute my $.02:
I have an ipod video (30gb) and have found it to be quite a transformation from CD's, XM and broadcast stations. I'm not pushing the ipod, but I am reporting that I am a very happy owner. My wife -who is very s l o w to warm up to new things - actually likes the ipod quite a bit as well due to it's simplicity of use. I've ripped a few DVDs to mp4 format and added these videos to over 3,900 songs on the ipod. We travel a fair amount and we both see the benefit of having our entire music collection in a pocket, so to speak. I am positive that the other types of mp3 players are great units to have - how easy are they to operate and how many accessories are available for them.. I personally do not worry about the ipod battery replacement - I am handy and can do it myself but don't mind sending it in to the shop for a $100 'tune-up' to put it in car owners terms. If I had an mp3 player that was not easy to operate, my wife would quickly become frustrated and...well you can understand. It is for the ease of use that I chose an ipod. Now then...Ipods cannot play music downloads from some sites - Wal-Mart, for instance - once again this is not a concern have 400 CD's in our collection, but it may be for you. And I will add that I actually like itunes as a software program - it's simple to use. What ever mp3 player you go with I hope you have as much fun as the rest of us are having!

I'm new to the mp3 thing but happy to contribute my $.02:
I have an ipod video (30gb) and have found it to be quite a transformation from CD's, XM and broadcast stations. I'm not pushing the ipod, but I am reporting that I am a very happy owner. My wife -who is very s l o w to warm up to new things - actually likes the ipod quite a bit as well due to it's simplicity of use. I've ripped a few DVDs to mp4 format and added these videos to over 3,900 songs on the ipod. We travel a fair amount and we both see the benefit of having our entire music collection in a pocket, so to speak. I am positive that the other types of mp3 players are great units to have - how easy are they to operate and how many accessories are available for them.. I personally do not worry about the ipod battery replacement - I am handy and can do it myself but don't mind sending it in to the shop for a $100 'tune-up' to put it in car owners terms. If I had an mp3 player that was not easy to operate, my wife would quickly become frustrated and...well you can understand. It is for the ease of use that I chose an ipod. Now then...Ipods cannot play music downloads from some sites - Wal-Mart, for instance - once again this is not a concern have 400 CD's in our collection, but it may be for you. And I will add that I actually like itunes as a software program - it's simple to use. What ever mp3 player you go with I hope you have as much fun as the rest of us are having!

First off I am glad you are happy with your ipod. How long have you had it? I was happy with mine for 5 months, until it died. Then 5 months later #2 died. I am now sending in my thrid one due to constant low battery indicator after only having it three weeks. Most people I know have had "problems" with their ipods. Ipod charges an arm and a leg for battery replacement while many other companies (hint*hint* creative) have user replaceable betteries that boast the same 14-15 hour extended use time as ipod. For $40 you can buy a second battery and have it on long trips as a back up or even a whole replacement. Sorry I am so ANTI-IPOD. As for accessories...Ipod is king I have to admit. They have something for everyone (mp3 player covers, exercise arm bands, car adapters, in hope speaker set ups, travel speaker set ups, etc). Have fun on you mp3 player hunt and let us know what you finally decide on!

Thanks for the reply's guys. Still doing some more research and your comments truely help. I really like the Ipod stuff, but too many (not just here) horror stories about the battery life. So unless they improve real quick, no Ipod for me.

Ken

I'm thinking about getting an iRiver T10
http://pics.rbc.ru/img/cnews/2005/05/13/iriverT10.jpg

becuase it can do "Player for Sure" or "to go" music. Then I can use it with Rhapsody Music service (or iTunes, if I was crazy enough to buy songs, or any service)

I'll have all my bases covered.

I'm thinking about getting an iRiver T10
http://pics.rbc.ru/img/cnews/2005/05/13/iriverT10.jpg

becuase it can do "Player for Sure" or "to go" music. Then I can use it with Rhapsody Music service (or iTunes, if I was crazy enough to buy songs, or any service)

I'll have all my bases covered.

My dad has that player and he likes it. Great for exercising.

I'm assuming that you are interested in some feedback as to whether you should get this or not. My two bits, take them for what you will are, don't.

I base my opinion on the experience of those who have gone before. Check out this website:

http://reviews.cnet.com/iRiver_T10_1GB_Blue/4505-6490_7-31404718.html

You will see two ratings here. One is cnet.com's initial review and the second is the user opinions. Overall this didn't score that well, only receiving a 5.9 out of 10.

Cnet.com is my "go-to" place for buying electronics.

So you also have to take into account the actual value you are getting. Let's say this is a fantastico mp3 player. Everyone loves it. Woah, wait a second, it only gives you 1 Gig for music. Sounds like a lot right? Well not for the money.

I did a bizrate.com for a general comparison of prices for this unit.

http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/search__cat_id--499,prod_id--345837601,sort--6.html

As you can see, the cheapest is $165 as of today.

Now compare that with the Ipod Nano. Only $179. $14 gets you one more Gigabyte/double capacity. Plus, it's smaller, you get Apple's warranty and service and it's prettier and smaller.

http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/search__cat_id--499,prod_id--345388258,sort--6.html


Personally, I use Creative Zen Vision M, but it costs 3 times more. Good luck on your quest!

thanks for the links!

I can't buy ipods because they can't (and won't) do subscription music
I absolutely hate Creative because of a bad relationship several years ago, and I absolutely do not trust anything they make.
I'm looking for an ultra portable (wear around the neck or even inside my bike helmet) mp3 player with a radio built in, for under $200.

I would never buy the iPod Nano, Apple showed their true colors by trying to hide the scratch issue. They finally copped to their responsibility after they got bad press about it, but Apple is an untrustworthy company, imho. They need to work on their customer relations.

PS: that CNet site is pretty cool! thanks for the link! I see the iPod Nano only got 6.9 out of 10 from users, not much better.

All players using LiIon batteries have the same physical limitations of the technology. If you leave it on the charger all the time, you won't get good life out of the battery. This complaint about being unique to Apple is a non-starter with me.

I've got four iPods, and I have had great experiences with them. I have had the batteries replaced in two of them by iPodMods,com and at a lower price than Apple by far. The kids, wife, and I use them daily.

My wife had a Rio, and it was good. However they are out of business now.

The intial problems with the Nano are over with, and Apple did step up to the plate when it was evident that it was not the customers' fault.

I'd go with the Apple iPod.

I have an iPod Nano and I love it. Have had it since September with no problems whatsover.

haha looks like everyone is trying to convine eachother of what is best now instead of the original poster. Even myself! Stick to CNET.com

huh? original poster? .... oh, didn't even see that :grin:


oh, to answer the question about "what is play for sure":
Plays For Sure is Windows DRM (digital rights management) that allows for subscription based playback. So if you have Rhapsody (or napster or yahoo) you can use your subscription to play songs on your MP3 player, and you don't have to buy the songs. Also called "To Go", play for sure will expire if you don't keep your subscription going.

For example: you can pay $12 for one month of unlimited music, then download as many songs as you want to your MP3 player as you want all at no extra cost (not $.99/song or anything). This would cost $30,000.00 if you owned an iPod. Then you can cancel your subscription, but the songs will only work for 30 to 60 days more on your MP3 player, then it will say "error: no license".

Apple won't ever make their MP3 players work with Windows DRM because they want to make that $30,000 from each user, much more profitable for them.

True on the user opinions, take into account the initial problems however. I think the value for you would be the extra capacity. And someone correct me if I am wrong but aren't there boatloads of work arounds to itunes and copyright management software?

If it were me, and it's not, I would be like Mork from Ork and do the "Nano-nano".

I think Apple has shown their true colors on more than one account and personally won't buy one of their players. I would consider either a Creative which has user replaceable batteries, an iRiver that uses regular batteries or I've also heard a lot of good things about the Toshiba stuff if you're looking for a larger HD.

I have a 6 Gig Creative Zen Micro. I absolutely love it! I didn't even want one but it was given to me as a present but now I can't live without it. I used Napster at first for $15 a month with a "Napster To Go account". (It should come with a free trial), but now I use LimeWire. It's very easy to put songs on and has a good battery life. I work five hour shifts and use it while I work and it's never died on me. I would say it has a six to seven hour battery life ( I turn it on, push play, and let it choose songs randomly so the backlight doesn't come on which saves your battery ). They just came out with a 30 Gig Creative Zen with a colored screen and video. My Micro retails at $200 but you can usually get one for $150. The 30 Gig is about $300 I believe.

My recommendation is to look at accessories. The Zen Micro is pretty basic and uses universal accessories. An IPod has lots of accessories!!! ( My dad has a Nano ). My only problem with the IPod accessories is price. Your paying for the IPod name. All I have is a simple armband holder and I bought the cord that hooks into the AUX port of my E, but it doesn't work with my aftermarket head unit. Also look at where you want to get your songs from. Happy Hunting!

Also look at where you want to get your songs from. Happy Hunting!

Well I should have stated this before as well. I have no idea were I would get my songs from on line. So is it safe to say that I either have to pay per title or by a subscription and the songs expire after my subscripton runs out?

I had better get this worked out before I figure out what unit I want.

Ken

well, if you get a Play for Sure (aka "to go") enabled MP3 player, you can use it for both types of music, "per title" or "subscription"

then you'll be ready for any type of music


PS: also, these subscription places will also let you buy the songs one by one, too

My wife had a Rio, and it was good. However they are out of business now

Hopefully, D&M Holdings (http://www.dm-holdings.com/eng/brand/rio.html), who purchased Rio will continue with the Carbon (http://reviews.cnet.com/Rio_Carbon_Pearl_6GB/4505-6490_7-31354901.html) line. Fantastic player. I've had one since they came out. If anything happened to mine I'd get another one in a heartbeat (eBay or here (http://rioaudio.s2gstore.com)).

20 hour battery, drag and drop, no software required, about as big as a credit card and only slightly thicker. Fits in a shirt pocket.

True on the user opinions, take into account the initial problems however. I think the value for you would be the extra capacity. And someone correct me if I am wrong but aren't there boatloads of work arounds to itunes and copyright management software?

If it were me, and it's not, I would be like Mork from Ork and do the "Nano-nano".

Correct. You can use the iTunes software to burn a CD from the songs and then you can do what ever you wish, even reburn them to mpg. There are many ways to ensure your Fair Use of any DRM protected media.

http://www.mboxcommunity.com/SONY.html

I"m with you there. I beta tested the Carbon and have about three or so of them in various forms. I'm contemplating popping in the 8gb drive when it becomes reasonable in price. Never understood the need for something the size of the Nano. I was also a Karma owner and now have an old Neuros upgraded with an 80gb drive that travels with me. My Carbons are kept in my work bag and gym bag.

If you want a holster for your Carbon, let me know. I had proclip make one for it, and I sell them discounted.

Hopefully, D&M Holdings (http://www.dm-holdings.com/eng/brand/rio.html), who purchased Rio will continue with the Carbon (http://reviews.cnet.com/Rio_Carbon_Pearl_6GB/4505-6490_7-31354901.html) line. Fantastic player. I've had one since they came out. If anything happened to mine I'd get another one in a heartbeat (eBay or here (http://rioaudio.s2gstore.com)).

20 hour battery, drag and drop, no software required, about as big as a credit card and only slightly thicker. Fits in a shirt pocket.

I'm a Creative fan - can't beat the price and the options. I have the MUVO FM TX that's both a flash drive and mp3 player - with a FM radio - for exercising. You don't need the USB cord, it plugs right in. I also have a Zen Touch (chose it over the Micro with FM radio because of price when I got mine). The battery life on this thing is amazing! Needless to say one of the selling points for the E was the AUX jack.

Unfortunately with Creative - you use their app for managing the songs - but it's easy to use. Add in Audible for audio books and you're set for a road trip.

Good luck - it's a tough decision.

Juls

One other issue to consider with any player is what software to use on your computer. Contrary to popular belief, an Ipod doesn't lock you into Itunes. I use Media Monkey because it is good software that lets me arrange things the way I want to and because it uses a help forum like this one to modify, debug, improve, and update the software. A lifetime license cost 20 bucks. Check it out.

The difficulty comes in navigating to what I want.

I cheese my way around this by hitting random until I get in the ball park. Then I skip fwd/back a couple tracks to get where I want to go.

Rhythm Ace, I have been doing this, too. I found that if you burn the CD from Windows Media player, it just puts all the songs in alphabetical order, regardless of artist. However, if you burn a CD like you were burning a data CD and put all the songs in folders, it will retain the directory structure on the CD. Then you can move between folders by turning the right-hand knob on the radio. One caveat: I do this with mp3 files and I'm not sure if it will work with wma files that have digital rights management that requires them to be burned from Windows Media player.

In response to the original poster, KSB: I use a Treo 600 as my mp3 player. It uses memory cards so you don't have the huge storage of the Ipod but you can get as many cards as you can afford. The 1 GB cards are now affordable so they hold quite a bit of music. You can have different cards hold different genres or artists and they act like albums. It's a little old school, I admit, but I actually have more fun screwing around with the technology than I have listening to music...:cool: You can also stream radio stations from the web with it which means you can cruise around in your E listening to Radio Denmark or something, if that's your idea of a good time...