PLASTIC BODY PANELS

We all know about waxing and polishing the paint job on our elements but what about the plastic body panels? Seems that wax would get stuck in the texture of the panels. What about someting like Armor All? I have just used soap, water, and a soft brush so far but if someone knows of something that will prolong the the new look of the panels the tip would be appreciated.

There is a new product out - check out www.urethanesupply.com/bcc/index.html its called bumper and cladding coating. This may be the alternative to repairing those faded plastic side panels. It's basically a paint on cladding like coating. It's different from regular paint it has a rough like texture.
Has anyone out there in the autobody industry try this stuff?

That's what worrying me, everyone is already searching for a method to repair 1/3 of the cars body "Plastic Panels" on a brand new purchase!!! Does this make sense??? Do the Pros outway the Cons so much that you "E" owners would settle with this lack of quality and durability?
I loved the car when I saw it, I've test driven 4 of them the past 3 days, but this seems to me might just be the tip of the iceburg!!
What else might show up?? I'd hate to buy the car on impulse and be stuck with the Edsel of the new Millenium.
I sure hope someone, "HONDA", steps up the the plate and takes care of this before it gets out of hand. I need a new car and would love to make the "E" part of my plans in the near future but I just can't commit to it right now!!!
:roll: :roll:

I'm curious. So far I've seen a lot of posts about how easy it is to scratch the panels with your fingernail but I haven't seen any about any real-world scratch damage problems. Has anyone had a problem with excessive scratching from normal day-to-day use? I've had my E for about a month now, taken it through car washes 5 or 6 times and don't see any marks anywhere.

If it's just a matter of keeping my fingernails away from it, I can handle it. Only kidding about that - don't want to minimize your problem if you have one but, if you do have one, I'd like to hear about it - especially how you got the scratches & what the dealer's response was when you complained about them.

Thanks

e-j

I echo element-j's sentiments. I have nearly 1300 miles on my E with nary a problem...

I would agree with element-j and puppy. I have just over 1200 miles and not one issue.

Just washed my Element today (hand wash, first time!) I used armor-all on the panels and the interior...looks great!

i am highly disappointed with the plastic panels they scratch very easily and the honda dealership cant seem to get the scratches fixed right honda needs to work on getting this problem squared away other wise our elements will look like junk in a short time if i had to do it over i would wait till honda gets it act straight i really thought they would be on top of this usally honda is one of the best

[quote:332471db03="RML"]I would agree with element-j and puppy. I have just over 1200 miles and not one issue.[/quote:332471db03]

A whole 1,200 miles and not an issue, "yet"? Who are you, JD Powers?? We are not talking just about "initial" quality here, We are considering the apparent lack of quality and research on the part of Honda and how well the "E" will standup in the long haul. Does this not concern you at all??Please enlighten me.
As an "attorney", you should know about covering Your A**, and I'm really surprised that you would not care about the quality issues that have emerged regarding this car.
Acting as "Devil's Advocate" hurts :twisted: but someone's got to do it, and by the way, Da Gypsys credibility has been questioned by someone other than myself!!
Obviously, IT WASN"T JUST ME!!! WAS IT???
SEE YAH

If you have a scratched Element from something other than intentionally test-scratching it, would you post here:

1 How it got scratched

2 What your dealer's response was

This info will help all of us who run into the same problem.

thanks

BigWaveDave E,

Let me ask, do you even own an Element yet? You seem to know everything about everything, so I thought I would ask.

As far as my vehicle. I have been very pleased with it. You speak as do others about the lack of quality because you can damage the body panels on an Element. Well, as a "Devil's Advocate", if you want to damage a vehicle, I will guarantee you that you can damage any vehicle.

If you were understanding what people were saying, instead if just trying to show how smart you think you are, you would see that those of us who have Elements have not had a problem with the body panels. The reason we can speak only about initial quality is that is what each of us have. Only limited mileage. If the Element had been around for 10 years, I am sure we would be able to discuss in detail just how long before there is a problem with the panel, if there ever is a problem with it.

As of now, from what everyone is talking about, it is just guessing what will cause damage to the plastic on the Element. As of now, no one has posted that anything other than intentional damage has occurred. Now, I know you are smart enough to know that unless there is unintentional damage, there is nothing that Honda will or should do about it.

You are welcome to act as "Devil's Advocate" as much as you like, but doing so without the proper facts on your side, just makes you look foolish. Get the facts, and I will be happy to discuss it with you. Till then, this point is moot. Unless someone has issues with the body panels, other than what ifs, there is nothing but theories to talk about.

Honda has always been the type of car company that stands behind their product. If there is an issue, actual issue, not some fantasy about problems, then I am sure Honda will step up and deal with it as they have in the past. They have extended warrantees, they have replaced things, whatever was needed.

You speak about the apparent lack of quality and research on the part of Honda. In the past they have always waited to make a car until it was up to Honda's standards. I see no reason why they did not do their homework on this model. Unless you have actual facts to talk about, you are merely posting to see yourself post.

You asked to be enlightened, I trust that when you deal with facts and not theory's you will be. Until then, wait and see. Patience is a virtue my friend. Jumping on a bandwagon to be on it, is not the way to live ones life. Nor is trying to imply that you know all the facts when you know none.

Finally, you mentioned about being an attorney I should know about covering my a**. I know how to do it, when needed, but I also know how to protect my clients, and how not to show someone else, what I know. You have shown what little about the Element and people you know thru your posts, and personal attacks. It is really a shame.

[quote:7ee0eb545b="BigWaveDave E"][quote:7ee0eb545b="RML"]I would agree with element-j and puppy. I have just over 1200 miles and not one issue.[/quote:7ee0eb545b]

A whole 1,200 miles and not an issue, "yet"? Who are you, JD Powers?? We are not talking just about "initial" quality here, We are considering the apparent lack of quality and research on the part of Honda and how well the "E" will standup in the long haul. Does this not concern you at all??Please enlighten me.
As an "attorney", you should know about covering Your A**, and I'm really surprised that you would not care about the quality issues that have emerged regarding this car.
Acting as "Devil's Advocate" hurts :twisted: but someone's got to do it, and by the way, Da Gypsys credibility has been questioned by someone other than myself!!
Obviously, IT WASN"T JUST ME!!! WAS IT???
SEE YAH[/quote:7ee0eb545b]

Hi there BigWave... Welcome to our discussion, to catch you up to speed here...

The Element is NEW, and this board is so we can share experiences, information and more on the Element. Since the panels are a new concept with Honda, we want to make sure all is fine there...

If there is an issue we want to make sure everyone is aware of it and that if there is a problem it is addressed properly.

Some people are noticing the composite panels are soft and have or may scratch; we are trying to confirm this is an issue and realize how to work with it down the road as well as now.

When anything new comes to market there may very well be problems. Overall this vehicle is wonderful in many facets, but will not be with out a flaw, nothing in existence is perfect, nor should be expected to be so. Honda has an incredible reliability record, and also has excellent customer service.

I can live with some minor superficial flaws, which can be worked with on a vehicle that is everything I have wanted for years! There are many vehicles out there, that when you buy them they are back in the shop (shortly after purchase) and not for something superficial but major reliability functional issues! So weighing these concepts, I can live with a vehicle that has such an “issue”; I also know that Honda stands behind their vehicles!

Now why should I live with it, now? And why should I not wait? Cause I really fell in love with this vehicle. Also someone needs to be the first to get it, and also point out there is something that needs to be looked at, then those next in line will have a vehicle that does not have those "issues". Overall, why? Cause I really love it!

As an Element owner, I find BigWaveDave's input refreshing. Way too many cheerleaders on this site whose little feelings get hurt when someone points out a flaw in the almighty Element (or "E" as some of you put it).

Let me repeat for 100th time: I LOVE MY ELEMENT. I'm happiest when I'm in it. That doesn't change the fact that there are some big and unacceptable issues with it. The composite body panel and the cracking floors are a couple that have been brought up on this board.

The dealers themselves are recognizing the problem (mine did) so it must be fairly widespread even if at (gasp) 1,300mi you've not experienced any scratches. What's to say at 1,400 a shopping cart doesn't put a big gouge in your fender or at 1,500?

For the record, I've got two scratches that should be there. One from bumping a gas nozzle into the side (fairly lightly) and one from the fingernail test I did low on the front fender.

That last last para should read "For the record, I've got two scratches that SHOULDN'T be there".

Also I know some of you have said you tried the fingernail test and couldn't scratch it. Can't explain that. I assume Honda's QA is good enough to not ship different grades of composites in their cars. Maybe some of us just drink more milk than others. :D

tigernumber6,

I have no issue with someone pointing out a problem, heck, I am sure over time will will all find issues with the E.

My point was that I have not had a problem as of yet (not to say I won't tomorrow), and I want to deal with facts.

You have 2 scratches. That is a fact. The 1st you said was by a gas nozzle. Great, 1st real cause I have seen, other than a fingernail.

Many years ago, my wife and I were shopping in a furniture store. The sales person said he should think about a leather sofa. We told her that we won't get one because of the dogs. She pulled out a piece of leather fabric, and a pen. She tried to punch thru the leather with the pen. She said it would stand up to anything. I took out a pen knife, and went right thru. I said, it won't hold up to the dogs.

My point being, nothing is as good as the saleman claims. The E will have issues, no question. Is the plastic what Honda intended? I have no idea, but it is working for me so far. The people with problems, should really talk to their dealer. If enough people do, I am sure Honda will do something about it.

[quote:e38350700b="tigernumber6"]As an Element owner, I find BigWaveDave's input refreshing. Way too many cheerleaders on this site whose little feelings get hurt when someone points out a flaw in the almighty Element (or "E" as some of you put it).

Let me repeat for 100th time: I LOVE MY ELEMENT. I'm happiest when I'm in it. That doesn't change the fact that there are some big and unacceptable issues with it. The composite body panel and the cracking floors are a couple that have been brought up on this board.

The dealers themselves are recognizing the problem (mine did) so it must be fairly widespread even if at (gasp) 1,300mi you've not experienced any scratches. What's to say at 1,400 a shopping cart doesn't put a big gouge in your fender or at 1,500?

For the record, I've got two scratches that should be there. One from bumping a gas nozzle into the side (fairly lightly) and one from the fingernail test I did low on the front fender.[/quote:e38350700b]

Thank you so much for understanding where I am coming from. No I am NOT an "E" owner yet, and yes this is the Element owner's club. but I also see this as a forum to assist prospective buyers like myself BEFORE a purchase is made.
No, I don't feel I was making personal attacks at GYPSYTDA although some might feel otherwise. Again, If we cannot question each other's personal opinions, then we must be living somewhere other than the USA.
If I have hurt anyone's feelings, I do apologize. This car has brought excitement to everyone on this site and I'm looking forward to owning one soon.

Thanks again for your support,
Dave. :wink:

Dave,

Your feelings and opinions are as welcome as anyone elses here. :D

You are encouraged to post them on whatever topic you feel you want to, and have something to contribute.

All I ask is if you want to deal in facts, have the facts.

You are correct this site is wonderful for both the current and future E owners, as well as people who may decide that the E is not right for them. This is a place where people with issues can discuss them openely without the fear of being shot down by Honda, a dealership, or someone who works for them. All that is asked is respect for each other.

The E is a wonderful vehicle, but like any other vehicle, it is bound to have its problems.

[quote:235aa9b23f="element-j"]I'm curious. So far I've seen a lot of posts about how easy it is to scratch the panels with your fingernail but I haven't seen any about any real-world scratch damage problems. Has anyone had a problem with excessive scratching from normal day-to-day use? I've had my E for about a month now, taken it through car washes 5 or 6 times and don't see any marks anywhere.
e-j[/quote:235aa9b23f]

I saw an Element in the Service parking lot when I was at the dealer buying the All season Mats. This Element, in the service parking area, had one panel all scratched up. It was the rear panel where the gas cap is located.
It was noticeable. I was looking at the color (Blue) and was going to peak inside the window for any options or mods, and I noticed the panel. I then walked around the E, and that was the only panel that was messed up.

BigWaveDaveE,

Your right. I too faced a heck of a time with those who would banish me to live in the cesspools of the gallows before they would allow me to question the "Almighty Honda god."
Just look at the posts in "exterior" forum and you will see the angst I had to suffer to make my point about the composite fenders.
That being said, time is on all our sides (hopefully) and we will find out if indeed these fenders will hold up, or look like the ones of every Element that was on display at the NAIAS, i.e. all scratched up.

BigWaveDaveE, chill baby. Vindication is like ice cream on a blueberry pie. Pretty sweet. But it will take time. First you have to let the pie cook for a while. :D

I' hope I'm wrong, and everything works out right.

That being said, its been 1 week now with my Element and its been great so far! I love it!
And I guess I'm a lab monkey. Somebody had to be first.

By the way, shouldn't this heated discussion be taking place in another forum?
I thought this one was about auto care. :?

ibutchman,

you are correct about the topic. This is about car care.....or it should be.

Yeah!......

Can we take this outside!

That is, to another forum :)

Being a New Yorker....

You talkin to me, you talkin to me?

I understand where Ibutchman is coming from, but, let's all take a deep breath.

It's a fun vehicle, a fun site, it'll be alright.

:D

:lol:

[quote:c51cd40663="tigernumber6"]The dealers themselves are recognizing the problem (mine did) so it must be fairly widespread even if at (gasp) 1,300mi you've not experienced any scratches. What's to say at 1,400 a shopping cart doesn't put a big gouge in your fender or at 1,500?

For the record, I've got two scratches that shouldnt be there. One from bumping a gas nozzle into the side (fairly lightly) and one from the fingernail test I did low on the front fender.[/quote:c51cd40663]

who's to say that if a shopping cart or gas nozzle hit ANY car that they would scratch? I've done both to my civic and it shows the wear and tear.

I think to fully believe that they are scratch defiant would be silly. You have to look at it logically and accept the fact that almost any part of a car can be damaged. its all just a matter of when, where, and how. and especially these days when people have less and less respect for other peoples property.

Please! "Can't we all just get along. " :D

[quote:3b4bd667c7="katchwreck"]who's to say that if a shopping cart or gas nozzle hit ANY car that they would scratch? I've done both to my civic and it shows the wear and tear.

I think to fully believe that they are scratch defiant would be silly. You have to look at it logically and accept the fact that almost any part of a car can be damaged. its all just a matter of when, where, and how. and especially these days when people have less and less respect for other peoples property.[/quote:3b4bd667c7]

Honda advertised these as durable, scratch-defying panels. The provided literature to every organization that reviewed the Element saying that these panels could take the campsite and the mountain bike leaning against the vehicle. No one is saying they should be scratch proof. But, Honda should be held to their advertising - and in the Element brochure itself.

These panels are scratch magnets - if anything.

If you HAVE scratches on your E's plastic, would you please complete this poll:

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=331

thanks

e-j

I have the EX 4WD Element and a pair of rhododendron bushes that put a hurtful pair of scratches on the plastic panel parts while backing out of my garage. In a way the panels proteccted the doors, but I thought I was stuck with the scratches. They wernt that deep but were noticable. On another day I was putting nufinish polish on the car and accidently got some on the panel parts. So I used a cloth and some mineral spirits to wipe if off the panels. I decided to wipe the scratches too with the rag, and to my surprise the scratches went away. I honestly cant see them anymore. The nufinish polish was harder to get out than the scratches, so becareful when polishing your car, and yeah I cut those bushes back like a mad man!

Also gas tank under driver..

Postman,

I don't understand what your post means? It does not really follow the flow, topic, or anything on this thread that I can find. Can you please explain what you were talking about?

I do not have my E yet, so this is more to go along with jrouyer's post. I assume most of these scratches that show up on the panels are those of a superficial nature...That is to say, they don't actually compromise the surface of the plastic. I would assume by putting some type of polish or renewal polish on the panels, it will take the surface scratch away. Kind of like when your skin is dry and it scratches easily. As soon as you put moisturizer on, the scratches disappear.

I know Mothers and Meguiars make products that are meant for use on vinyl bumpers and such, and they essentially moisturize and clean. Barring any deep gouges, would these products not take out most topical scratches?

If products can get scratches out of paint, can the same principles not be applied to plastic? Perhaps when Honda says scratch defying they mean just that...That once the vehicle is cleaned and the panels treated, the scratches disappear.

I don't know...Just my convoluted opinion! :wink:

I guess in Spring we will hear more of what people use on the panels as a wax - something to keep them looking dark and to help protect them.

I cringe when I hear Armour All, it has a bad reputation. Most Car Clubs and the like have sworn off using Armour All Altogether.

Let us know what you have used on the panels with good results.

I am not surprised at jrouyer's discovery that Nufinish takes out the scratches. My dealer found out the same thing with a solvent. It is known that Nufinish has a lot of solvents in it. In fact if you read the instructions it tells you not to put on vinyl or plastic parts. However it is enough to eat away the surface scuffs. Still trying to find out the ideal stuff.

In the meantime I am experimenting in small areas if Black Magic Total Shine will help protect the cladding. This stuff is made by Prestone-Quaker so it falls under a number of tradenames of exactly the same stuff. :wink:

Well I just wanted to stop in and say that this site is a fantastic resource and has some great people providing information both the good and the bad about the Element. I have been stalking the forum for sometime now and I think that the Element fits most of what I want in a family vehicle plus it just looks COOL... 8)

I just want to start test driving in the near future.

As far as car care and other whatnots I buy all of my products from
CarCareOnline (http://www.carcareonline.com) and the support you can get from these people is fantastic.

Anyways, good luck with your new vehicles and well done with this site.

-David

Hey there all. Iv'e had my Element for about 2 weeks now and have loved every minute of it. This is my first post and part of the reason I went in search
of an Element owners club was for this very topic, the composite body panels.
After hand washing my Element last weekend I noticed a spot on the left rear panel that I thought i'd missed so I went to whipe it off with a slightly damp terrycloth towel, and after I did so there seemed to be two very slight and sublte scuffs from where I'd wiped with the towel. That panel of the car had been in the direct sunlight and was quite warm. So, I wonder if wiping down the panels in direct sunlight (warm=soft) should be avoided?
Next question: What to use to buff out scuffs?
And by the way...My dealer told me not to use ArmorAll on the panes it being a wax based product may turn the material white over time.
Looking forward being an Elemental...MT

I used this stuff on all of the plastic outside the car. It darkened my DX plastic. It actually makes the plastic the same shade as the EX plastic. It definately made the plastic richer and darker looking. I also used the turtle wax on all indoor surfaces with very good results.

I used this stuff on all of the plastic outside the car. It darkened my DX plastic. It actually makes the plastic the same shade as the EX plastic. It definately made the plastic richer and darker looking. I also used the turtle wax on all indoor surfaces with very good results.

[quote:32793ac88d="konan"]There is a new product out - check out www.urethanesupply.com/bcc/index.html its called bumper and cladding coating. This may be the alternative to repairing those faded plastic side panels. It's basically a paint on cladding like coating. It's different from regular paint it has a rough like texture.
Has anyone out there in the autobody industry try this stuff?[/quote:32793ac88d]

What do you use to protect the panels so they don't end up looking faded and so you don't have to restore them :?:

Two products work well and are not greasy when they dry.

Back to Black- Simonize
Scotch Guard -Vinal & leather Protector- 3M

I like the 3M product better, but haven't found it lately.

Both restore a slightly darker and richer color.

Turtle Wax Ice is great on the plastic panels and everything else on the exterior. It brings up a great shine on the painted surfaces and makes the black (in my case) panels look, well, black and shiny and like new.

(20,000 miles, a year and a half, and no scratches on the plastic yet).

Mothers back to black....works well...until the rain comes.... then u will see it whitening again