:?:
What does the owners manual say about the break in period for the engine? Does it give you a certain number of miles in the break in period to change the oil? Is there a owners manual online that I can look at?

:?: :?: :?: :?:

Break-in is 600 miles and you should not use cruise control during that time but vary your speed and engine RPM often to allow the rings to seat properly. It's in the owner's manual. :wink:

Can you tell me what section that is in. I must be blind.

Thanks

Page 158. The statement about using the cruise control was made by my dealer.

:) :)

Thanks for the information utahrex :!: Hopefully I will be in my Element next week. Does the manual say anything about the first oil change :?:

Per pg 213 in the owners manual it says to change oil at 10K miles under normal conditions. On pg 215 it says to change the oil at 5K miles under severe conditions. Even though conditions aren't severe here yet, I will change my oil somewhere between 3K and 5K miles. I don't like the idea of running a break in oil 10K miles.

Ion777

I would have to agree with you on the oil change being at 3000 to 5000 miles. I work with a mechanic that has worked at japanese car dealers and also rebuilds and shows cars and he said the first oil change would be good at 3000. It may be old school thought to change at 3000 miles for newer engines but I have decided to stick with it. I figure the cleaner the oil stays the better the car will be in the long run. I did know a guy that would change oil every 2000 miles. :shock:

Would it hurt to change the first oil change at 1000 miles. I know its a special oil in there, but wouldn't be a good idea to get the tiny fragments (if any) out sooner. Then maybe put new oil as the same formulation as the factory blend? Or does it really matter?

Another question. I went on the freeway for a 30 mile drive at reading of 250 miles on the car. Does that hurt the car during the first 600 miles to go on the freeway for 30 miles? I did not put on cruise control.

states NOT to change oil before the specified interval. There are special additives in the oil to help parts seat properly and changing the old too soon merely dumps these additives before they have time to do the job. I too have always changed at 3000 and often sooner on a new car, but this time I will follow the instructions as given. I would hate to have excessive oil consumption down the road and have to explain why I changed oil in complete disregard for the manual. Not sure if the warranty would be any good in that case.

ibutchman:

As far as I understand freeway driving is not an issue as long as you stayed under the double-nickle. As well, they suggest you don't drive at the same speed for a long period of time - which is why cruise control is not recommended.

Iskie

Well, I did go up to 60 mph a few times but quickly went back down.
and I vary my speed 5-10 mph.

Thanks for the advice......appreciated!......Butch

Just wanted to add that the manual also advises against quick acceleration or braking during this period.

I've taken 4 Elements out on test drives, and one dealer told me their policy was for him to drive to a designated point and then I could drive.
Well, hell, the Salesman gunned the thing and my head flew back - he also slammed on the brakes at the last second. He was trying to impress me with the acceleration, but I only was only thinking - I not buying THIS one.

13 miles on the Engine and he drove it like a crazy person. Well, the dealer that I eventually bought mine from told me the terrible way people drive cars on test drives. They really test their limits and drive them hard.
Not good for a brand new engine.

I was concerned that my Element would come in and before I was notified - it might get driven on several test drives by salesman trying to hook a customer. It really runs counter to the manual for people to drive these things all-out on test drives, but it happens everyday.

Simon,

I feel the same way. If the saleman drove it hard you know other people testing them will drive them hard also. I would have told the saleman that I would not buy that car if he did not go by what it states in the manual for the first 600 miles :x When I test drove one I took it easy like you are supposed to do. The salesman did not come along with my wife and I. I hope when mine comes off the truck that no one slams it around like a Nascar driver. The saleman said there would be a sold sign on mine so that no one else will drive it.

:!: :!: :!:

I have talked with two service managers in my area so far. They both come to the 3000 mile mark for the 1st oil change during the break in period. They both said Honda recomends 3750. One said do not do anything before 2000 miles. I will be calling 4 more dealers in my area Monday to get more educated on the 1st oil change. I will post Monday on what the consenses is. :roll:

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Here it is Monday night and I do not have any service managers break in oil reports. I got so tied up at work I did not have time to call the other four. Sorry guys and gals I will report in tomorrow.

Great, let us know. We are in a hurry, but can wait another day or 2. :wink:

I did some extensive reading on Synthetic oil (Amsoil, Mobil1, Redline, etc.)
and the reporting was from a Gov't group evaluating Synthetic oil for Armed Service road vehicles - not from someone selling it.

There is one thing that is important to note from the EXPENSIVE, exhaustive testing - don't use synthetic oil for the first 5,000 miles !!
The report stated unequivocally to NOT use synthetic oil in a engine with less than 5,000 miles. Synthetic oil is so slippery is will hinder the break-in of the engine. Coincidentially, Honda's figure for break-in oil is also 5,000 miles.

I hear so many still speaking of the old rule of doing the first oil change at 500-750 miles, etc. That doesn't apply to new engines today. New engines today are ran on a computer operated machine and the oil with the shavings is discarded and then the crankcase is filled with fresh oil.
The oil from the factory has special addititives that aid in breaking in the engine. Let that oil do it's job, and don't switch to Synthetic til 5,000 miles or greater !!

I called 4 more service managers in my area and here are the answers they gave me for the first oil change after the engine has been broken in.
1. 3750
2. 5000
3.no less than 4000 because of the additives in the oil when the engine comes srtaight out of the factory. This service manager asked one of the more experienced techs that had just been to Honda school and went just for infomation on the Element
4.3750

All the guys that said 3750 they were leaning more toward 3000.

Now why does each Honda dealer have a differnt story :?:

I would tend to lean toward 3000 but the #3 answer sounds more professional. The 3750 is close enough to 4000 also :roll:

I don't have an element, does it really say first oil change at 10k in the manual? seems a bit long to me...
But ... I've heard that if you change your first oil at anytime before 5k (in any car) your chances of eventually burning oil go up. Anyone heard anything similar?

You're exactly right Sean. During the breakin the rings seat and seal - if breakin doesn't occur normally - the experts say you will may lose oil due to the fact the rings and engine tolerances didn't seat.

Sean, the manual does say that the oil changes are every 10K for normal driving conditions. There is also a chart for extreme driving conditions which is ever 5k and most dealers will tell you to follow this chart.

Simon,

Have you talked to Honda engine engineers about why the first oil change is at 5000 miles or is the information on the newer engines of all newer engines in general foreign and domestic? :?:

So wait are you suppose to keep the engine under some certain RPM for the break-in? Or does it not matter as long as you vary your RPMs?

For your break-in period, they suggest you stay under a certain speed, usually about the double-nickel and that you vary your speed. The rpm matters if you have a 5-speed, and, yes, the answer would be to not let it rev high close to the redline and not to burnout from the stoplight.

Iskie

What does all of your dealer ships say about the first oil change? Should we go by the manual from Honda or go by what our dealers tell us? From all the answers I got and from the dealers and this message board I,m not sure what road I am going to take :roll:

I guess I will call my cousin that works at the East Liberty Honda plant in Ohio to get a clear cut answer. Damn that is what I should have done all along :? I may be a day or two on this one so hold tight. What bonds my cousin and I together is a great uncle of ours that was in WWI and WWII. (US Navy 30 years) He called a car a machine.

I will check but I think the owners manual says 5000. If it does, that is what I will go with. On my wife's Benz it was 10,000 and there has never been a problem. That 6 cyl engine holds 8 quarts and has 25% fewer moving parts then previous engines. I don't think it is dirt or particles in the oil that are an issue. A modern filter should pull them out, if not then you will always have the potential for a very big problem. Oil breaks down with heat and engines prior to break-in generate more heat. Many modern engines after break-in generate less heat as they have fewer moving parts. Oils now days are also better. Old rule of thumb I always went with was change every 3000 but that is not always necessary. Good oil change shops now days recommend 5000. Of course changing your oil more often then necessary never hurts.

Than,

No I haven't. The items I've read sound like the latest information hightlights the need for proper Engine break in. Almost all manufacturers, including Porshe and BMW put additives in the Engine oil from the factory.

Mobil1 comes in the crankcase in Corvettes and Porshes but it has an additive that facilitates break-in.

The old standby of changing the oil at 500 or 1,000 miles for the FIRST change defeated the design of the break-in oil.

Take it slow, no long trips during fist 700 hundred or so miles, and vary your speeds (not all HW driving).

[quote:cb5bad663a="Jake"] Good oil change shops now days recommend 5000. Of course changing your oil more often then necessary never hurts.[/quote:cb5bad663a]

Changing it more often than 5K is throwing your money away. Consumer reports did the studies and I read them and an Automotive Engineer on the radio also tore down some engines that his shop had monitored - with the same results. No discernable difference could be found in engines that had been changed every 6,000 miles and those changed every 3,000 miles. These were the initial tests that spurred AUTO manufacturers to sponsor their own studies. The AUTO companies tests reinforced the Consumer Reports testing and no manufacturer recommends changing every 3,000. Under the worst, adverse conditions they recommend 5,000 and 10,000 for normal driving.

Jiffy Lube and service depts will always recommend 3,000 miles. It is simply a convenient way to separate you from your $$$.

If you are really worried about your engine, proabably the single best thing one can do is have a Mobil One Engine filter installed (Post - breakin).
The Mobil One oil filter - filter element is coated with a special sythentic treatment (not the stuff in synthetic oil) and it filters out smaller particles that Honda filters will pass. And Mobil One is built better - from the bypass valve to the uniformity of the pleats in the filter element. They cost about $11.00 each.

Honda says that whether you use synthetic or conventional oil the change frequency is the same.

My paraphrase: the oil gets polluted by the combusiton process. It gets polluted in a way that filters can't fix... like maybe acidic. This happens even if the oil does not break down at all.

My planned behavior: Do exactly what the manual recommends, using conventional oil.

Other data: Changed the oil every 3K on an 83 accord until a water hose between the engine and the firewall broke and the engine siezed at 170K. After that, as an experiment, I switched to the "don't change just add" approach. It died 90K miles later.

Hope this helps,

Ed

1000 miles, change oil to synthetic....that's it! Change oil every 6 k after that. Synthetic oil is slipperyer... less friction...I bet some body will slam me and total the thing when it has 60 K on it just so I'll never know how the synthetic does in the long run! Break in is 1000 miles... don't drive cross country at 70mph untill you drive around town at varied speeds