Obviously since I'm posting on here, I've got an E, and at the same time, my pitbull Boss is fully matured at a whopping 130 lbs. Yesterday was the first day I tried to get him into my E and he hopped in fine, but it seemed like he was nervous in the back because he couldn't get up onto the seats, he was whining allot. I know my dog pretty well and I know that he loves being pampered so he kinda felt betrayed when he couldn't get up onto the seat and had to lay on the floor, I'm thinkin' that maybe if I let my rear seats lean all the way back he'd jump up because with my previous car and with my Audi, he just hops right on the back seat, I think he's a little confuddled at the fact that he has to hop onto the seats once he's inside the car. I tred lifting him onto the seat but he turned his body into jello and it's not that easy lifting 130 pounds worth of pitbull jello.

If any of you have experience with big dogs in your E, let me know...a cage is out of the question, I refuse to put any animal I own into a cage.

Try putting the seats flat so he can get on them - he may like that better. Dogs always "fret" a bit in a new car (in my experience) until they find a comfy spot and get used to the new sounds etc. Try a few different seat arrangements until you find a good one for him but it may be just time in the E.

You do what you feel is best but BTW - a traveling crate is not exactly a "cage" - it's like a child's car seat - to protect the dog from becoming a projectile in an accident. A loose dog in an accident at 30 MPH or above is frankly, a DEAD dog. I don't crate for around town stuff but on the road- you betcha - 2 dogs even.
Would you put your 2 year old in the car loose without a seat belt (or a car seat) and say "I don't believe in restraining my child or tying them down". You are the superior intelligence and therefore are supposed to make a decision based on logic and safety - not what you imagine the dog or child wants. You do what is best for them. I prefer a slightly unhappy live dog over a happy dead one every time.
Dogs SURVIVE in crates - like kids SURVIVE is safety seats.

Obviously since I'm posting on here, I've got an E, and at the same time, my pitbull Boss is fully matured at a whopping 130 lbs. Yesterday was the first day I tried to get him into my E and he hopped in fine, but it seemed like he was nervous in the back because he couldn't get up onto the seats, he was whining allot. I know my dog pretty well and I know that he loves being pampered so he kinda felt betrayed when he couldn't get up onto the seat and had to lay on the floor, I'm thinkin' that maybe if I let my rear seats lean all the way back he'd jump up because with my previous car and with my Audi, he just hops right on the back seat, I think he's a little confuddled at the fact that he has to hop onto the seats once he's inside the car. I tred lifting him onto the seat but he turned his body into jello and it's not that easy lifting 130 pounds worth of pitbull jello.

If any of you have experience with big dogs in your E, let me know...a cage is out of the question, I refuse to put any animal I own into a cage.


A 130 pound pitbull....I think you need a horse trailer....

When we take our German shepherd, Tiberius, places, I put some old towels on the floor in back so he has something comfortable to lie on.

If you're not comfortable using a crate, you may want to look into something like this: http://ruffrider.com/

I think we will get one for Ti when he is full-grown ... a friend of mine had a dog who was VERY badly injured in a car accident, and after that she always put a restraint on him so that he would be safe.

sory, I guess I should clarify, I'm not talking about long road trips, just 10-15 minutes to get from my parents place to the Lake County Dog park so that Boss can run around and be outside in a safe place where cops won't arrest me for letting a pitbull off leash.(yes, i muzzle him when he goes off leash)... I'm going to try that today, push my back seats all the way back and put some old towels over them, if my E had a center console I would let him ride shotgun but I have a feeling he'd fall off the seat.

Our dog is only a 12 lb mini dachshund, so he just rides on laps, but I think that laying the back seats flat is probably the best and most comfortable idea for short trips. I actually have the seats flat in our E right now because I find it easier to drive that way in thick traffic. That way, I don't have the back seats or the back headrests blocking any of my view, it makes the interior feel even more roomy. I think that if you take Boss on any long trips, it would be best to restrain him, but for little quick ones, just put him on the flat seats.

sory, I guess I should clarify, I'm not talking about long road trips, just 10-15 minutes to get from my parents place to the Lake County Dog park so that Boss can run around and be outside in a safe place where cops won't arrest me for letting a pitbull off leash.(yes, i muzzle him when he goes off leash)... I'm going to try that today, push my back seats all the way back and put some old towels over them, if my E had a center console I would let him ride shotgun but I have a feeling he'd fall off the seat.

I have a 130 pound cross lab/rottie. All my back seats are down - he manages to get in and out. My problem is all the nose prints on the ceiling.

I am forever cleaning those nose prints.
You said in your post you're were trying it so I'm curious to see if it worked.
They like the turning room.
Good luck with poochie.
jurn

yea, with my dog, the big problem is drooling, esp. after a long walk outside in the heat, he gets back in the car and it seems like he's got gallons of saliva pouring through his jowls.

We have three dogs, a 100 lb Malamute, a 40 lb mut, and a 16 lb Jack Russell. We have a couple of thick rubber backed carpet runners that we lay down the length front to back with the seats Up or Out. All three have plenty of room, can see out some, and they have some TRACTION. Our Mal had a hard time before we got the mats, she would slide around. That's what we do.

yup, I folded my rear seats all the way back and covered them in old towels (hope my mom doesn't miss them) and boss loved it, I'll include a couple pictures of the family dogs:

My pitbull Boss a couple days after I got him:
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g244/specialpierogi/d9373f90.jpg

and here's Boss when he was still growing (about 90 lbs.):
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g244/specialpierogi/a515f503.jpg

Here's me (I must have been 16 or 17 in that picture) with my grandfathers BRT...she's a little bit bigger than Boss.
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g244/specialpierogi/b5ce627f.jpg

Now boss is a little bit (40 lbs) bigger than that picture, if I hadn't lost my digi-cam I could give ya some today pictures.

Figured he'd like the flat seats - my Stan Poodle (55lbs BUT 27" at the shoulder) likes them but the Scottie doesn't - so right now Stan Poodle stands on the floor, Scottie sits on the seat. When I finally get the spot in the garage cleared the seats are coming out and I can almost guarantee the Scottie will take "Shotgun" while the poodle stands with her head over the console armrest.
Happy to hear the big fella isn't road tripping loose in the car. Obviously he is very loved and deserves the extra care you give him.
Oh a suggestion - go to a thrift store or garage sale and buy an old bedspread or blanket to throw over the seats - the cheapest washable thing you can find. It will save Mom's towels and it won't matter if it gets dirty or torn up and it can go in the washer.

My cousin and her husband began breeding pit's 6 or 7 ago and throughout the generations, they've kept pup's with certain characteristics (long snout, brindle or white coat, larger than average paws and certain temperments, they sold the ones they didn't want to caring homes, my Boss is the result of an "extra large female with an extra large male breeding, if memory serves me correct, my cousin said that the male was 120 lbs and the female was 90.... with no inbreeding. I've trained boss to keep silent except for whining, which it seems he can't suppress, at all times unless I give an order to bark or somebody's at the front door, hehe, he's scared many a UPS delivery driver.

My entire extended family on my mother's side is into large dogs, my grandfather's 150 pound black russian terrier, my uncle's growing asian shepherd (will be 100-120 lbs when fully matured), my pit, my cousin and here husband's 5 or 6 (at a time) house pit's and recently annother of my cousins got herself a puppy bull mastiff (could be anywhere from 150-220 pounds)

My eight-month old Labradoodle would live in my Element if I would let him. He likes being all over the car -- no favorite place. I have seat covers for the front seats to keep the mud and stains to a minimum. When by myself, I keep the passenger seat pushed all the way forward so he can sit there without slipping under the dash.

I fold a large bathmat over the cupholder between the front seats so he can lie between the seats when my husband and I are in the car together. That's his favorite place of all, letting his head rest on my husband's leg.

I also keep either a big flat dogbed with a raised rim or a sheepskin in the cargo area -- I think the slick rubber floors bother dogs more than anything else. It seems to me towels would not offer enough slip-resistance to make a big dog comfortable -- sometimes I keep one rear seat down and a bath mat on it so he can sit on that and see out a little better.

My problem is all the nose prints on the ceiling. I am forever cleaning those nose prints. jurn

My wife, who is an artist, calls the nose prints from our three Corgies "nose art".

What type of Corgies Pembroke or Cardi?? My coworker has 4 Pembroke Corgis. All of them herd. 3 bitches and one dog. They are cool little dogs with lots of heart.

Chance, Belgian Sheepdog, picked the back seat floor. I put a cheap blanket with a fake sheepskin mat on top. He wears a seat belt harness. He seems to be very comfortable. I tried the bed, and took a nap back there - it is comfortable :-)

Bsdowner,

Do you herd with your Belgian? Duncan, Kate and I will be doing a AKC herding trial in Berryville Va sponsored by the Belgian Sheepdog Club in Sept. Nothing is cooler than watching your dog do what it was bred to do.

Duncan HRDIs and Nirvanna's late Summer Squall(kate), she has the only collie parents who are Dual Champions Herding and Conformation

Lot easier to haul my two rough collies in the E to lessons and trials.

If any of you have experience with big dogs in your E, let me know...a cage is out of the question, I refuse to put any animal I own into a cage.

Good for you. Too many people think that a cage is a convient way to "store" the dog when he is inconvient. I have a crate for my beagle, but the door is never closed. The labs won't go into crates, so I got rid of them.

I got rid of the crates, man, the crates. The labs are currently orbiting the back yard. They are very much still around. (truth be told, the crates are in the garage . . . so they are available if necessary)

ah ha ha ha ha ha, wow this just made my night, I was genuinly upset thinking that you got rid of dogs just because they wouldn't go into a crate lol, wow i'm an airhead... I'm glad you don't keep your dogs in crates, it makes my heart bleed when I see dogs or cats stuck in crates.

IMHO, Crates aren't bad - they are just like guns - only dangerous and harmful in the hands of the wrong people. Dogs are naturally den animals and a crate is merely a kind of den. My dogs no longer need to be crated but they were crated at night and when we were gone(never over 5 hours BTW) for the 1st year of their lives. They now go in the crate (together even, it's a large one) on their own. We leave the door open and they always feel very calm, safe and secure in there. We have no separation anxiety, have never had so much as a shoe or even a shoe string damaged and our dogs are calm, relaxed and mellow when we return home after being gone. The crates merely allowed them to grow up learning to be quiet and relaxed (and safe) when we were away or just weren't available to supervise them. It also aided with quick and easy house-training.
I love my dogs like children and would never do anything to them that I thought was bad or painful - crating a dog is neither - and it's especially valuable for THEIR safety at home AND particularly on the road. I do crate BOTH my dogs when we are traveling - 1st because it allows us to both secure them and protect them in case of an accident or emergency and second so that they can be safely left in a hotel room in our absence. Having my dog lost in a strange place is a huge fear and a crate effectively assures there is little chance of that happening. And bonus, my kids see their crates as "home" no matter where we might be. Having their "home" with them reduces stress, anxiety and fear to almost nothing and traveling remains all relaxing, fun, play and attention time for them. At the same we feel comfortable leaving them in a cool (or warm) hotel room while we enjoy some dogs-not-welcome activities.
Everyone is happy!!

yea, thats a good way to look at it... my dog's safe place in the house is usually in my bed lol, but I spoil him.... to keep his jaws busy and away from my shoes I end up buying him those "iron bar dog bones" but he still goes through them like m 'n m's. I've actually had a girlfriend break up with me because my dog wouldn't let her lay next to me in the bed, the dog would end up moving her over in the middle of the night lol.

re: crates

my dog has a 12'x5' room in the back of the house. he has access to the outside via a dog door, and to the kitchen via another dog door. his favorite spot in the room is his crate. if left alone to play, he will eventually return to the room and take a nap in the open crate. he retreats to the crate during violent thunder storms, and when there were fireworks in July.

i made all interaction with the crate a good experience, and he grew to like the comfort of a "den."

i have built a code of discipline for our dog, and he seems to thrive on direction. the best way we have found to keep him even keel is the morning run with my wife. they do about 1.5 miles together, and he is great the rest of the day. he had way too much energy before the runs.

we still have alot of work to do, but he is a great dog, and seems to be very comfortable so far.

At the same we feel comfortable leaving them in a cool (or warm) hotel room while we enjoy some dogs-not-welcome activities.
Everyone is happy!!

Or in other words, where you store them while they are inconvient. I have never heard of a den that locks from the outside. Sure, dogs like dens. Mine like to lie under the dining room table, the bed, etc. They hate crates because they know that sometimes they get stuck in them. Go ahead and tell yourself that your dog loves his box. The fact is that it's a jail for a dog, especially if you, by your own admission, store the dog there when he is not wanted.

They hate crates because they know that sometimes they get stuck in them. Go ahead and tell yourself that your dog loves his box.

why does my dog return to this "jail" on his own? why does he go there without being led, or told to do so? why does he bring bones, and toys into the crate?

answer: http://theole34.homestead.com/aaideas.gif he is obviously comfortable in the crate.

the reason the dog likes the crate is because i let him find it, and gain comfort on his own. he made his way into the crate on his own. he decided to make it his safe place. now when i need to close the crate for safety reasons... he doesn't mind.

Well, since unlike MOST, I am HOME with my dogs pretty much 24/7 I hardly call it "storing them away". A hotel room is NOT SAFE for a dog to be loose in and last I checked they don't allow dogs in restaurants, at hospitals, funerals, or several other places one might need to go when away from home. I WILL NOT SUBJECT MY DOGS TO A HOT CAR so they can "be with me" when there is a perfectly good hotel room available and a perfectly comfortable CRATE for them to be in that they LIKE. I am the human and therefore their safety is MY responsibility. If there is a need to enter my room in my absence my dogs will be safe and secure - not loose.

And speak for yourself if YOUR dogs do not like their crate, that is your issue. I suspect you never tried one or you did not train them with one as puppies. My dogs happen to LIKE theirs and often go in it, often TOGETHER, voluntarily of their own choice to sleep when we are HOME - and the door is left open at home all the time as they are now ages 4 and 9. The crates were used in our absence for short periods and at night (sleep) only when they were less than 12 mos old. We keep one out now for tornadoes, fires and other emergencies - in which case they can be invaluable. Even our CATS and TURTLES go in crates in tornadoes, Guess we are "cruel" to them too - pesky humans trying to safe their lives. Scandalous!

Happily my dogs are spoiled with a stay at home Mom and most of the time when we travel we have a live-in, 24/7 pet sitter live at our home with them all day/night in our absence. I doubt most pets are so fully spoiled. However once in a while we take them to visit family on shorter weekend trips and our age 80+ parents are not quite equipped for 2 dogs - one 26 inches at the shoulder and 55 lbs- in their homes 24/7. In those cases sometimes the hotel and crate are their only options and frankly, they are asleep the entire time anyway and could care less.

Unless you have used crates with your dogs please don't speak for everyone or insinuate that we are somehow bad parents with unhappy tortured pets because we employ proper safety measures with our dogs when traveling and cared enough to train our dogs properly as puppies.

The Ole,

Do you close the door? If you do, why? Remember, your dog "chooses" to be there. Why prevent it from leaving?

Tango,

You and I have had this one out before. My point remains the same. I have one crate for the dog who occasionally enjoys sitting in it. The others don't and respond negatively to the experience. I have no problem with an animal having a safe place (mine choose the kitchen table, the coffee table, and the bed). I have a serious problem with storing a dog. Why take your dog on vacations to places he isn't welcome? (ie your mother's or somewhere where he isn't allowed in the hotel) Wouldn't he be happier with a friend/at a kennel than locked in a box? I know that my pups love a trip to the kennel. It's like a spa for them, with lots of other puppies (and people) to play with. I am certain you have such facilities near you. I feel that you do your dog a disservice to lock him in a cage when he is inconvient. You, as the human, have a responsiblity to plan ahead and make more suitable arrangements than a box for your dog.

I'm sure you disagree and think I am a complete ass for challanging you. I feel strongly. You feel strongly. I am sure you are a great guy, albeit with a diffrent point of view. I'm done. If you feel the need to respond, by all means I am going to read it, but I seriously doubt that I will change your mind by writing anything further, so I won't.

Do you close the door? If you do, why? Remember, your dog "chooses" to be there. Why prevent it from leaving?

yes i do close the door.
for safety reasons.
i am human, and he is a DOG. the crate is not inhumane. it is a useful tool to contain an animal when they might hurt themselves otherwise.

don't even get me started on the dog on the couch, and the bed.http://theole34.homestead.com/thumbsdown.gif lol. i love my Dog, but he is a Dog and stays on the ground. period.
http://theole34.homestead.com/files/2cents.gif

kung
I would put my pets happiness against anyone's - and my care against anyone's. If I choose to take my dogs with me for a weekend rather than paying $120 for my critter sitter for 2 days that would be my decision. The dogs sleep all day anyway (I know this because I am with them all day) - I hardly think them being in a nice, cool room in a crate for 4 hours is "bad" for them or cruel - and most important, the rest of the time they are with me - and safe. We won't agree so you're right, it's a moot point.
TheOle34
We know what makes for happy, healthy ,safe well behaved dogs. My dogs are not allowed on the furniture without permission and are quite happy with their crate and their beds (on the floor) - BY CHOICE. AND I know, for instance, if the roof blows off the house in a storm, my critters will be safe and healthy - because of a crate and their willingness to trust me and it for safety. Dogs are not people and need the same sort of protection from danger, rules and discipline a small child does. It's like allowing a 3 year old to run loose and do whatever they like and handle dangerous situations on their own for fear you might "be cruel" to them or HORRORS make them "unhappy".
Do these look like unhappy, neglected dogs to you? AND because they have been loved AND trained we can take them anywhere and allow them to meet anyone. Bet yours is the same!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/inkstudios/Little%20Bit%20Of%20Everything/girls.jpg

TheOle34
We know what makes for happy, healthy ,safe well behaved dogs. My dogs are not allowed on the furniture without permission and are quite happy with their crate and their beds (on the floor) - BY CHOICE. AND I know, for instance, if the roof blows off the house in a storm, my critters will be safe and healthy - because of a crate and their willingness to trust me and it for safety. Dogs are not people and need the same sort of protection from danger, rules and discipline a small child does. It's like allowing a 3 year old to run loose and do whatever they like and handle dangerous situations on their own for fear you might "be cruel" to them or HORRORS make them "unhappy".
Do these look like unhappy, neglected dogs to you? AND because they have been loved AND trained we can take them anywhere and allow them to meet anyone. Bet yours is the same!

that is great! but we are bad craters! ultimately it is the owner's stability that keeps a dog sane, and safe. i find that through training several dogs, my even keel temper and mindset help the dogs maintain a decent temperment. exercise for the dog is key... after a decent run, Tennessee is a dream all day.

Tennessee started ringing a hanging bell to go outside at 4 days in our house... he was about 3 months old. he was house trained in 2 days. pattern training... i took him outside about 40 times a day for two days... to an 8x8 foot spot in our yard. we rang the bell with his nose everytime we took him out, and then on day four he rang the bell, and went out to pee. i learned through the owning quite a few dogs, and assisting in training several others.

oh s4i7.. look he's in his prison now. just came back from a 1.5 mile run with my wife.... and he is asleep. i am such a bad dog owner.http://theole34.homestead.com/yikes.gif

yeah.. my boy is HAPPY, and SAFE!

he'd be able to rip the bag of alpo open for himself.

interesting quote.

i spent a few weeks of my time in post Katrina, New Orleans....

i saw tons of dogs wandering aimlessly. i also saw many dogs with... yes... cans in their mouth. cans of tuna, cat food, dog food, soup and many other products. wandering around with UNOPENED cans in their mouths.

i was also pack tracked by Ghetto Cattle a few times. the rotties looked to be contrlling most areas.

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/8074/neworleansdogs4yn.jpg
one of my shots.
that is I-10 in the background

these dogs followed us 10 blocks into the French Quarter... they stopped after i left a bowl of food. we had them snatched up by animal control shortly after.

Fellas, cage your dogs, do whatever, I really don't care. Of the three I have, only one of my dogs, the female lab, did I get as a puppy. I would put her against anyone's dog when it comes to being well-trained, minding, and being well adjusted.

The beagle I got third hand, maybe. She is old, set in her ways, and stubborn, but is really pretty happy. She was not even housebroken when I got her, but can do her basic obedience (sit, stay, come, heel). She's not going to win any awards, but she's pretty happy and I am proud of what I have done with her.

The other lab was beaten savagely on a daily basis by his previous people, and probably should be put down because he is just not right. He minds pretty well most of the time, but I would definitely say I don't trust him. He will be gone before my child arrives.

Anyway, keep patting each other on the back. Fact is that we have different approaches. I won't store a dog, you seem to feel it's appropriate. For you to suggest that I don't care about my dogs or that I don't take the time to train them is ridiculous.

we rang the bell with his nose everytime we took him out, and then on day four he rang the bell, and went out to pee. i learned through the owning quite a few dogs, and assisting in training several others.



I had read about that not too long ago. I definitely want to try it with my next puppy.

New to the gig here and don't have a E yet.

Just sold my beloved Ford PU and am looking to replace it with my first ever non-truck vehicle. This is a statement as I have had 10 trucks in my 31 years of driving.

Have a 2006 diesel one ton chevy now(keeping) and looking to get a SUV that will be easy on the wallet, fun, and haul around my 4 Border Terriers to shows/events without the hassle of my chevy boat.

My E will be primarily for highway usage. Looked at the 2006 E's, liked the room and looks of it. Can't wait to check out the 2007's and so far like what I am seeing with the changes. Will wait to see the SC although I'm pulling toward the EX model at present.

Glad there is so many E dog lovers here but don't get too worked up folks. It's like raising kids. Everyone has different opinions about child rearing and it is nice when someone cares. There maybe no right or wrong answer , do what works!

Any advice in things that I should look at in my E for hauling the dogs would be most welcome.

At the risk of going back to the topic...

So far what has worked best for Grace is one seat up and one seat down. With both up, she'd fall off, and with both seats flat, she'd slide around too much. With one up and one down, she can curl up behind the upright seat in the far-back, stretch out on the fully reclined seat, or occasionally sit upright in the other seat or in the shotgun chair. Full-out sprawls are reserved for the floor behind the front seats. The unmatted floor doesn't provide enough traction, though.

Okay old man with the wobbly knees and the peg leg, I do challenge you and I do say that you ride your sheep every day. And with that, I bet you wouldn't survive the drive up north through chicago on 294, you country types (not to offend anybody else but VAherder) just can't handle the concrete jungle. And annother thing, it doesn't reflect well upon your own dogs when you threaten to shoot mine just because my dog would look upon your golden pooch's, your basically saying that your dogs are so helpless that without the alpo you pour into their dishes they'd starve to death, atleast I can honestly say that my dog's got the balls and maturity that if anything ever did happen and I wasn't around, he'd be able to rip the bag of alpo open for himself.

So go ahead old master of the sheep riders, sole authority of canine behaviour and training, go on, keep telling yourself that you could honestly keep up with a "young buck" like me:evil:

Age, cunning and experince beats youth, exurberence, stupidity and inexperience anyday. Now numbnuts do you have any clue to where Clifton, VA???? Didn't your daddy tell you and you do know who your daddy is right that when you assume something you make ? Fill in the blanks for this ignorant college puke! Shame the best part of who ever is your daddy ran down your mom's thigh. I have travelled all over the world for DOD I think I can survive in a toddling town like Chicago? I have done surveillance in SE DC. Should not be a much of challenge after Beirut in the early 80's and Bagdad. Unlike your ignorant pitbull my collies were not raised to kill other dogs. Not going to take a chance with a herding dog that I have over $20000.00 invested in. Also I am smart enough to realize my collies dont stand a chance against a inbred ignorant pit. My dogs are smart enough to survive on their own. Or they will just go over to the neighbors and let them know something happened. They can take down deer, sheep etc. Shame you dont know enough about dogfood. Alpo and most commercial dog foods are some of the worse crap you can feed your dog. Shame that it will die early because of all the chemicals in its food.

Now who has the higher IQ you or your pit? Post again little girl when either of you get within 30 points of triple digits. You need a big pit to feel like man
little girl? What are you compensating for? Is it that small!

In an attempt to also get this thread back on topic...

Someone posted about those kids' puzzle mats.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12500

I think I read here that someone also used excersise mats. I would think those would even be cushier and allow the dogs better traction for movement.

I'm going to be traveling to Colorado Springs in September and I will be taking my English Mastiff. His crate is ginormous and takes up so much room. So what I am planning on doing is rigging his harness with a short leash and clip that will latch on to one of the many latches the E has in the back. That way he will have some movability but won't be a danger to himself or me if there is an accident.

Age, cunning and experince beats youth, exurberence, stupidity and inexperience anyday. Now numbnuts do you have any clue to where Clifton, VA???? Didn't your daddy tell you and you do know who your daddy is right that when you assume something you make ? Fill in the blanks for this ignorant college puke! Shame the best part of who ever is your daddy ran down your mom's thigh. I have travelled all over the world for DOD I think I can survive in a toddling town like Chicago? I have done surveillance in SE DC. Should not be a much of challenge after Beirut in the early 80's and Bagdad. Unlike your ignorant pitbull my collies were not raised to kill other dogs. Not going to take a chance with a herding dog that I have over $20000.00 invested in. Also I am smart enough to realize my collies dont stand a chance against a inbred ignorant pit. My dogs are smart enough to survive on their own. Or they will just go over to the neighbors and let them know something happened. They can take down deer, sheep etc. Shame you dont know enough about dogfood. Alpo and most commercial dog foods are some of the worse crap you can feed your dog. Shame that it will die early because of all the chemicals in its food.

Now who has the higher IQ you or your pit? Post again little girl when either of you get within 30 points of triple digits. You need a big pit to feel like man
little girl? What are you compensating for? Is it that small!


Dave, that just made absolutely no sense, I suggest you put the bottle down, put the blow away and step back from the bong. You want to talk about IQ and inbreeding, when what you just typed has worse grammar and sentence structure than my 4 year old niece. Oh so you were in Baghdad and Beirut with the DOD?... here, let me pull some obscure government agency out of my ass and claim to have flown to the moon. Plus, isn't 20,000 dollars just a little excessive to lie about an "invenstment" in a dog? it would be more believeable if you said 2000 or 3000, but 20,000.... did you get armor plated scphinxer's for the poor dogs? Once again you claim my dog is a product of inbreeding, when the nearest product of inbreeding and sheep riding is YOU. Now your saying your collies can take down a sheep or a deer, aren't those just as big if not bigger than my pitt? what are you so worried about, your just trying to turn the tables and let the animal with the bigger teeth and more aggressive nature have the upper hand....For somebody who "worked for the DOD" you don't seem too keen on when to quit and raise the white flag.

This is my last rebuttle to this pointless and time consuming argument, no Dave, you don't win, you'll never win, I'd never let such a product of human excrement feel above me.

sp3cialpip3s,

Employing a ‘pet’ dog to kill smaller animals is wrong. This behavior is neither accepted nor tolerated by any professional group.

It is clear, from your mentioning it multiple times, that you are proud of your dog’s blood sport. In your multiple posts, you also make it clear that you are ignorant concerning dogs in general and your dog’s breed in particular. Then again, a disposition to torture and kill smaller animals may indicate more serious problems …

In contrast to you, I have worked with dogs professionally. I served in the US Army as a German Shepherd Sentry Dog Handler.

I do not know you. But I know that you are an amateur operating in an area of which you have little knowledge and no training. Your lack of knowledge and your arrogance is setting yourself up for a bad fall.

I am going to ask this once and only once. No more personal attacks in this thread or on this forum. VAherder, you began this and I am stopping it here and now. If it continues from this post on, don't be surprised if your account stops working. sp3cialpip3s I know you were defending your dog and yourself, same goes for you.

As for everyone else posting in this thread... get back to the topic at hand. sp3cialpip3s asked about making his dog more comfortable inside the Element...

Please keep this stuff on topic and don't go off onto personal attacks.

Thanks.

I am going to ask this once and only once. No more personal attacks in this thread or on this forum. VAherder, you began this and I am stopping it here and now. If it continues from this post on, don't be surprised if your account stops working. sp3cialpip3s I know you were defending your dog and yourself, same goes for you.

As for everyone else posting in this thread... get back to the topic at hand. sp3cialpip3s asked about making his dog more comfortable inside the Element...

Please keep this stuff on topic and don't go off onto personal attacks.

Thanks.

Larry,

Excuse me! Fine and next time I will accuse you of bestiality and see what your response is. Thank you for your unbiased opinion.