I recently purchased an Element EX 4wd from my local dealer. I went in on friday after working with the salesman for a few days and filled in all the paperwork. I selected the vehicle and testdrove it--it had 39 miles on it then and was wonderful to drive. Unfortunately, I had to leave on a small but easily solved family emergency and placed a hold on the Element. I came back on Monday, signed the papers, and went home in my new "E".

before I left the salesman pointed out a scratch on the dash that wasn't there on friday. He said he'd ordered a new dash on saturday and would call when it came it. It is a small scratch of about 2 inches on the passenger side.

On my way home in my new E, I went to the store to pick up milk and bread and noticed that the Odometer read 507 miles. I was shocked.

I went back to the dealership the next day and asked for two things: an explanation and an extra 500 miles on my warranty. They checked the serial numbers to make sure that the 39 miles was correct--it was. They then didn't offer any other explanation other than that they must have been wrong or checked the trip odometer on friday--which could make sense, but a new car with 500 miles on it? that's a hell of a lot of test driving...

Then I asked, again, about adding miles on my warranty--they said that I shouldn't worry about it--that if I kept the vehicle well maintained then they wouldn't argue over something as small as 500 miles. I pointed out that my toyota dealership did just that over replacing the engine on my sienna and I had to get the regional sales manager to refund me the cash spent at the dealership. They said they weren't like that, and I took them at their word.

Question for the dealers on the board--should I just let this go or pursue it? I mean, from one point of view it looks like they let someone take out my car on a joy ride that scratched up my dash after I'd put a hold on it and put an excessive amount of miles on my car? Then I come in and pay what we'd agreed on for the car 500 miles ago...

anyway, can't decide if I'm upset about this or not. They sounded sincere when they said they must have read the odometer wrong and that they'd ordered a new dash, but I do worry about whether or not they'll honor the 36,500 warranty without something in writing...

--Silver

That is a hell of a discrepancy that I would ask for which I would ask for a detailed explanation. This strikes me to be fraud, although the dealer can claim Caveat Emptor. Get in writing a guarantee for the replacement dash and for the extension of the warranty. Have a chat with Honda America as well.

The warranty is a HONDA warranty, not a dealer warranty. In order to get an extension, you need to get it in writing, but not from your dealer who is just telling you what you want to hear. You need to get it in writing from HONDA.

Also, it would be interesting to see how those 500 miles were put on the car and by whom. To be honest with you, I would demand that the car be replaced with another one. Who is to say that some a**h*** from the dealer did not abuse the car for those 500 miles. It will be interesting to see what happens with this. If convenient, please keep us informed.

As much as i like the Element, car dealers and manufacturers are generally not to be trusted beyond what you can see for yourself and what is in writing. This definitely includes Honda and their dealers. Just type "Honda" and "lawsuit" into Google and you will get a feeling for this. (Yes, I know that all dealers and their employees are not like this. But it is OUR money)

yelapa

Sorry, I can't help make light of this. I did search on "Honda lawsuit" and this was the first webpage to come up:

"Emu breeders file lawsuit against Honda Motor Co."

http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/102997/emu.html

I agreed whole-heartedly with yelapa.

Silvernight:

That's hideous! Whatever they did with your E that weekend was totally in bad faith. Turning a sold car into a demonstrator or an employee's weekend fun car is absolutely unacceptable.

My thought: they owe you a new car. They took that car way way out of of acceptable lot mileage for a sold car. They deceived you in not disclosing it. They damaged the dash. They essentially delivered a different car than the one you bought. Pay special attention to what the odometer statement you signed before the family emergency stated.

This "it won't matter on the warranty" thing is also rubbish. It will matter, to Honda America. This adds misrepresentation on top of slimy dealing and bad faith.

I'd do this. (1) have one final discussion with them about their shenanigans, and if they don't immediately agree to replace your car, leave your car there on the lot and walk away, after taking a photo of your odometer with that day's newspaper beside it (2) get a cab to your attorney's office (3) also call your state attorney general's consumer protection department and (4) consider calling a local 'consumer advocate' that plays "60 Minutes confrontation" on your local TV news channel. People may not fear attorneys, may not fear legal action, but they do, absolutely, fear negative publicity on the local news.

There is no way they should get by with this. It really disgusts me.

Grrr! Hisssss! Swat!

at some point I should mention that I had a trade in that I haven't had towed to them yet (obviously needs some work). This trade in has been sitting in the driveway for about 5 weeks without moving...and has a unique addition to the passenger side door...a bee's nest.

I wonder if it's possible to ensure that the salesmanager gets stung, and not the awesome salesman? Seriously, I had such great service from everyone but the sales manager I'd hate to screw with them--and I did end up with a great deal, at least I think so. I have to go down there one more time to give them the title, so I think I'll ask one more time about extending the warranty and then let it go.

I really don't have the energy to fight this now...and until there's some harm, I don't know that I can actually prove a foul....

I'd love to hear from some dealers, however, and be able to tell my dealer this is what so and so from such and such said...


---Silvernight

My opinion, i wouldn't even take a car that had over 500 miles on it. I would consider it a used car by my standards. But if you can get another $1,000 off to offset the miles, then it's not such a bad deal. As for your trade in car, i would consider donating it to a charity and get a tax write off, i did!

in my books 500 miles on a car is not a brand new car... When i purchased my Black E i noticed a small scratch on the door. Which i pointed out and had them write in writing that the scratch will not be there when i drive it home..... Which they did a good job of doing.. Also, when I was about to take the car home i noticed a small dent on the driverside rear door.. WTF? They assured me that they will fix the problem and to bring it in tomorrow. I SAID, NO. And that they need to write it in writing that If they can't fix the dent and the scratch to my satisfaction they need to geve me a brand new element..... I paid for a Brand new Element and to me brand new does not mean scratches or dents and definitely not 500 miles... My E only had 13 miles on the odometer and i put on 3 of those miles........ If it had more than 30 i wouldve went somewhere else and bought one that had less..........

Before I start giving you my opinion on this, can I ask a couple of important questions? You signed contracts on this exact Element (same VIN # and all) before you left the dealership right? I'm guessing you had to have in order to have signed an odomoter statement. It is very possible that the salesperson screwed up and read the trip meter and not the odomoter (I see them do this occasionally and even I have once been guilty of this). That is understandable. Did you test drive this E before signing paperwork on it? If you didn't and have no proof of the mileage on the Element (other than the odomoter statement signed with X miles) than there probably isn't a whole lot legally you can do about it.

Is it the 500 miles on the Element that bothers you or the thought of who put the miles on it? Because there could be many explanations for the miles. They might have been put on after you bought it, which is certainly very, very wrong. If that were the case I would also ask for a different Element. When a customer purchases a vehicle, signs a contract and just can't stay for delivery, it should be parked, locked up and not driven for anything not agreed upon by yourself and the dealership. Period. Not test driven, not opened up to show another customer, not taken to lunch. Nothing.

It's a different story in you didn't sign paperwork and just agreed on everything and said I'll be back on Monday to pick up my Element. As dealers we must hear this BS 10 times a week. Ok sure, on Monday we will all be standing here holding our breath waiting for your return :roll: Then the dealer might have showed it to someone else, might have even sold it to someone else and had them return it, who knows.

Back to the miles.....If you believe your salesperson really did make a simple mistake, then that is fine as long as your are fine with that. They can certainly fix the dash for you, as promised. They can also register the vehicle with Honda as having 500 miles at the time of sale. We do this all the time with Honda using our demos' (which often have 4500 to 5000 miles on them). We can spend an extra $100 and register them as demos and actually give our customers a better warranty than when new. Instead of the 3/36 we can extend it to 4/48 for our customers buying demo units. This also extends the powertrain warranty I believe to 5/60. I have also worked for Honda for 7 years now and NEVER, EVER seen them kick a warranty item for being 500 miles over the 36,000. I have actually seen them do the opposite and warranty items well beyond the warranty. Honda warrantied a customer's Odyssey van that had a transmission go out with 70,000 miles on it. Double the warranty period. So I don't forsee this ever being a problem, but I'm sure your dealer could also give you something in writing saying they would cover the vehicle in the event you did run into that exact problem.

Sorry for the long explanations. In short, I would ask them to register the vehicle as a demo with Honda. It's a cheap and easy solution and you get an extra year of warranty out of it. They might not find this acceptable for a simple mistake (if that's indeed what occurred), but my guess is they will. Best of luck. Keep us posted.