Welcome,

What do you drive now?


If you've got something FWD and have been doing fine in the winter a FWD E will be about the same.

A FWD E will also get you down (and back) plenty of dirt roads/trails.

If you've got something 4WD you might not want to go w/ FWD now that you've been spoiled by theextra traction.

If you want the sunroof, or to geta little more adventurous, or normally have difficulty in the snow.... get the AWD.


Will

I am coming from a lowered 1999 Honda Civic Si.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii141/Jynx0406/080.jpg?t=1223340602

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii141/Jynx0406/roofrack.jpg?t=1223340636

I used it daily to carry my bike and also 2 surfboards when me and my brother went surfing. Looking at the Element so I can keep everything inside instead of on a roof rack like I did on the Civic. The reason I am getting a new car is my Civic was just stolen and recovered a couple of days ago...

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii141/Jynx0406/rec4.jpg?t=1223340695

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii141/Jynx0406/rec2.jpg?t=1223340731

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii141/Jynx0406/rec3.jpg?t=1223340760

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii141/Jynx0406/rec8.jpg?t=1223341043

Another question...

I know you can turn the VSA on and off. So with it on if the wheels start slipping like crazy the car will cut the throttle? And with VSA off you should be able to spin the tires as much as you want if you were in say mud?

The reason I ask is my mother has a 2004 Toyota 4Runner. If the wheels slip it cuts the throttle. You cant shut the traction control off. It really limits you if you are on really slick surfaces like snow or mud where tire spin can help.

The VSA off should shut off all computer controls right?

Thanks

Jynx,ya didnt park the civic near the G.W. bridge did ya they steal and kinda wheels there or at least they used too...:sad:

Correct, with VSA on when the tires slip it'll cut throttle to get you back in control. With VSA off, you can spin as much as you want, however remember that both the front and back diffs are open so you'll spin 1 front and 1 rear. Still I drive in the winter with it off 99% of the time - I learned how to control a car in snow/ice long ago and I prefer getting real feedback from the car.

As far as the engine being underpowered, it's underpowered only if you drive like gramma. Granted I drive a stick, but I find myself out-accelerating 90+% of people here on on-ramps. It's quite powered enough, it certainly doesn't need a V8 Hemi, it's 3500 lbs but it's only 3500 lbs - compare it to most other SUV's and it's lighter by a large margin.

As far as the beach, why in the world would you need a ton of power to drive on the beach? More power = more wheel spin = getting yourself buried 4x faster :D

As far as the beach, why in the world would you need a ton of power to drive on the beach? More power = more wheel spin = getting yourself buried 4x faster :D



That's not true for hill climbing, or mud running, or rock crawling.



Dom

That's not true for hill climbing, or mud running, or rock crawling.



Dom

True but the example that was brought up in relation to power was the beach...?

Jynx,ya didnt park the civic near the G.W. bridge did ya they steal and kinda wheels there or at least they used too...:sad:

Nope it was in front of my house :(

Correct, with VSA on when the tires slip it'll cut throttle to get you back in control. With VSA off, you can spin as much as you want, however remember that both the front and back diffs are open so you'll spin 1 front and 1 rear. Still I drive in the winter with it off 99% of the time - I learned how to control a car in snow/ice long ago and I prefer getting real feedback from the car.

Ok sounds great. I just wanted to make sure I have the ability to drive it with no traction control interuption if I wanted.


As far as the engine being underpowered, it's underpowered only if you drive like gramma. Granted I drive a stick, but I find myself out-accelerating 90+% of people here on on-ramps. It's quite powered enough, it certainly doesn't need a V8 Hemi, it's 3500 lbs but it's only 3500 lbs - compare it to most other SUV's and it's lighter by a large margin.

As far as the beach, why in the world would you need a ton of power to drive on the beach? More power = more wheel spin = getting yourself buried 4x faster :D

I will be getting the manual transmission. As far as power for the beach I guess it is because I had a bad experience. My brother used to have a 1995 Ford Explorer XLT (V6 4wd). One time we went to the beach. As soon as it got on the sand it was like all the power was robbed from the sand. The car was barely moving and was struggling hard. It eventually slowed to a stop and got stuck. We dug it out and headed right back for the pavement. I think that scarred me for life. I have never taken any other vehicle on the sand so I assumed that was normal.

Ok sounds great. I just wanted to make sure I have the ability to drive it with no traction control interuption if I wanted.

Oh yeah, you can spin 'em good :D



I will be getting the manual transmission. As far as power for the beach I guess it is because I had a bad experience. My brother used to have a 1995 Ford Explorer XLT (V6 4wd). One time we went to the beach. As soon as it got on the sand it was like all the power was robbed from the sand. The car was barely moving and was struggling hard. It eventually slowed to a stop and got stuck. We dug it out and headed right back for the pavement. I think that scarred me for life. I have never taken any other vehicle on the sand so I assumed that was normal.

Having not driven on beaches a whole hell of a lot, all I can think of is his tires were too narrow and/or stiff and he was diggin' in the sand? Actually from the sounds of the throttle slowing, he was probably trenching his tires into the sand, which is trouble right away. A common tactic is to let air out of your tires when on sand so they're more pliable, spread out more on the bottom, and are able to hold the weight better. As soon as you start spinning or sinking, you're in trouble. Light touch on the throttle on sand or you'll dig yourself in in about 2 seconds!

As far as power for the beach I guess it is because I had a bad experience. My brother used to have a 1995 Ford Explorer XLT (V6 4wd). One time we went to the beach. As soon as it got on the sand it was like all the power was robbed from the sand. The car was barely moving and was struggling hard. It eventually slowed to a stop and got stuck. We dug it out and headed right back for the pavement. I think that scarred me for life. I have never taken any other vehicle on the sand so I assumed that was normal.


Thats a common thing for first timers on the sand. In sand the trick is to drop your tires to about 8 to 10 pounds of air. That causes the center of the tread to become hollow. It allows you to ride on top of the sand without digging in and going down. """" Keep in mind, You can not take a turn at more than 6 or 7 MPH with the tires that low """" Also keep in mind, You MUST re inflate them before running on the street.

My first beach buggy was a 36 Hp V.W. engine powered sand rail. That was back in 1970 though. It had more than enough power for an 1100 Lb. rail.

On the sand, Unless your into sand drag racing, Horse power does not do anything for you.

Dom

lets see 1970 umm Dom yer bout 35-40 right? and horsepower is great on da sand if ya wanna dig 4 big holes in da sand...:grin::twisted:

lets see 1970 umm Dom yer bout 35-40 right?

Nah I've met him, he's 26 :D

Or if you need more clearance, you can lift your E.Pictured out my offroad wheels:D

"I would agree with what is being said here. The Element is a great vehicle on dirt roads and snow, and areas where high clearance isn't required. "[/QUOTE]

Josh

josh the lift is great, did you do the spar man lift? I am sure with the other rim/tire package it looks even better.

Curious about the lift as well. I'm not finding a whole lot of info on lifting an E other than suggestions for larger tires.

edit: ah-ha, my searching finally revealed he sparman lift mentioned. I'll exercise more patience with my searching!

I want to do more desert travel than in the past.

I know a lot of off-roaders let the air out of their tires for this, and then when back on the hard top they have a small portable air unit for filling the tires back to normal road tire pressures.

I would like to hear from some Element drivers about your experiences.

what pressures do you run in the sand?

what unit do you have to replenish the tire pressure?


any other comments at all would be nice to hear about.

Desert surfaces can range from bare rock to loose dune sand, even stream bed silt. There are a lot of threads about beach driving which may be similar to the dune stuff.

Check 4x4 forums for discussions on air compressors. Many chain autoparts pumps will be slow, and over heat if you need to refill all 4 tires by at least 10 psi.

I'd be reluctant to let too much air out as you expose more sidewall to sharp rocks.
se

From what I've read (but not practiced) there are two reasons to air-down:
- provide flotation, that is, increase the footprint so you don't sink into soft stuff as much
- provide better grip on rough surfaces, that is, the softer tread can 'wrap around' rocks.

While the side wall bulges out more at low pressure, the footprint increases in length more than in width. With sharp rocks (e.g. slate gravel) you can get cuts whether the tires are soft or not. The effect on tread area may also depend on the tire design. The stock Wranglers have a relatively narrow tread, and soft shoulder. My ATRs (and BFG KOs) have a square, blocky shoulder.

With the Element, airing down makes most sense when driving on the beach or dunes. I've considered dropping the pressure to 30 or even 28 to smooth the ride on some gravel roads, but have never taken the time to do so. We are unlikely to drive an Element over surfaces where softer tires would add much in the way of grip (slick rock and boulders).

As to air pumps, the best ones have an exposed, well finned, air cylinder for maximum cooling. At 4x4 shops these sell for $200 and up. I have a $50 look-alike. I mostly use it to tweak tire pressures, though I successfully use it to fully inflate a tire that I had fixed with a plug.

Keep in mind that a pump that plugs into the dash is limited by the fuse rating of that circuit. Higher airflow pumps clamp to the battery, or are wired permanently.

Another option popular with the 4x4 crowd is a compressed CO2 tank. It is fast and reliable, but relatively heavy, and not all that cheap.

Hey all,
I'm interested in buying an Element and so I have been reviewing threads on this site for some time. I'm a Surf Fisherman and I'm looking for a vehicle that can also be driven on the beach with confidence. I've read about owners driving their Element on beaces but all have been quite concerned about ground clearance. Driving on the beach is simple, even for a 2wd. It's the high-traffic areas getting on to and off of the beach such as ramp entrances that are the real challenge. It appears that other "off-roaders" have a similar concern as there are several posts about lift kits but all eventually come down to a DIY instruction sheet with no guarantees. If anyone knows of a commercially available lift kit specifically made for the Element and approved by Honda that can be installed by Joe the Mechanic, please let me no as that will cinch my purchase of an Element.
Thanks

No kits available, :-( sry.

The few people that have tried larger lift kits have generally regretted it due to the construction of the suspension and propeller shaft/rear differential (for 4WD). From what I've heard, the Element does just fine on the beach as long as you know how to drive on the beach in the first place.

Deflate tire pressure, and the thing drives around like it's made for sand. If you're worried about bottoming the car out, sand is probably softer than the metal. I've never had problems with bottoming the car on a beach.

A lift kit will lift the body from the wheels, but won't gain you ground clearance. It would let you fit bigger wheels, which would gain you ground clearance, but the lift kit itself doesn't alter the clearance of the bottom of the car.

Since the Element doesn't have a straight axle design, the benefits of customizing the suspension might not completely be realized.

Deflate tire pressure, and the thing drives around like it's made for sand. If you're worried about bottoming the car out, sand is probably softer than the metal. I've never had problems with bottoming the car on a beach.

A lift kit will lift the body from the wheels, but won't gain you ground clearance. It would let you fit bigger wheels, which would gain you ground clearance, but the lift kit itself doesn't alter the clearance of the bottom of the car.

Since the Element doesn't have a straight axle design, the benefits of customizing the suspension might not completely be realized.

Thank you, I was hoping someone would come by with more knowledge of the mechanics of this than I :D

Welcome, Rhailes. Hope you find the Element of your dreams.

I want a lift too!

A lift kit will lift the body from the wheels, but won't gain you ground clearance. It would let you fit bigger wheels, which would gain you ground clearance, but the lift kit itself doesn't alter the clearance of the bottom of the car.

Whoa there man.
I think you are thinking about a body lift, which you can't use on an Element as its unibody. The spacer lift that EOCers have been using is a suspension lift. If you measure the bottom of the body "lowest point" to the ground then install the 2.5in lift you will find that the latter will measure 2.5ins more. That my friend is more ground clearence. Now lets say you add a tire thats 2in larger you will in effect have 3.5in more clearence then you had to start with.



Since the Element doesn't have a straight axle design, the benefits of customizing the suspension might not completely be realized.
I understand what you mean but they way you said it says that my IFS 90 4runner "that has a 1.5in spacer lift up front" is not capable off road because it doesn't have a solid front axle.
I hate to tell you man but for the most part IFS can go just about any place solid axle front end trucks can go. You just have to adapt your driving style.
Also it depends on where you are wheeling at. Rocks favor solid axle but desert running favors IFS.

Here ! this is what you want, but they don't sell it, you can only dream it ! :-D

Whoa there man.
I think you are thinking about a body lift, which you can't use on an Element as its unibody. The spacer lift that EOCers have been using is a suspension lift. If you measure the bottom of the body "lowest point" to the ground then install the 2.5in lift you will find that the latter will measure 2.5ins more. That my friend is more ground clearence. Now lets say you add a tire thats 2in larger you will in effect have 3.5in more clearence then you had to start with.
.

I stand corrected.


I understand what you mean but they way you said it says that my IFS 90 4runner "that has a 1.5in spacer lift up front" is not capable off road because it doesn't have a solid front axle.
I hate to tell you man but for the most part IFS can go just about any place solid axle front end trucks can go. You just have to adapt your driving style.
Also it depends on where you are wheeling at. Rocks favor solid axle but desert running favors IFS.

Oh I think you understood what I meant, but not necessarily how I expressed it. ;-)

I think the original poster was trying to ask what mods needed to be done to make the Element "offroad worthy." My contention is that the Element already is more offroad worthy than a lot of people might first think, but it'd be way cost-prohibitive to try and mod one into a serious "offroad" rig. Beyond the lack of solid axle, etc, you'd have to add in a low gear and other junk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC-B17A
Whoa there man.
I think you are thinking about a body lift, which you can't use on an Element as its unibody. The spacer lift that EOCers have been using is a suspension lift. If you measure the bottom of the body "lowest point" to the ground then install the 2.5in lift you will find that the latter will measure 2.5ins more. That my friend is more ground clearence. Now lets say you add a tire thats 2in larger you will in effect have 3.5in more clearence then you had to start with.
.

I stand corrected.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NC-B17A
I understand what you mean but they way you said it says that my IFS 90 4runner "that has a 1.5in spacer lift up front" is not capable off road because it doesn't have a solid front axle.
I hate to tell you man but for the most part IFS can go just about any place solid axle front end trucks can go. You just have to adapt your driving style.
Also it depends on where you are wheeling at. Rocks favor solid axle but desert running favors IFS.

Oh I think you understood what I meant, but not necessarily how I expressed it.

I think the original poster was trying to ask what mods needed to be done to make the Element "offroad worthy." My contention is that the Element already is more offroad worthy than a lot of people might first think, but it'd be way cost-prohibitive to try and mod one into a serious "offroad" rig. Beyond the lack of solid axle, etc, you'd have to add in a low gear and other junk.

I'm the original poster and am not trying to turn the Element into a serious off road vehicle. I am only interested in trying to "enhance" its existing off-road capabilities on beach sand given its potential and limitations. Correct me if I am wrong, but from the responses I've received it appears that you can gain a few more inches "ground clearance" (spec'd as 6.9" stock) by adding a suspension lift and "taller" tires. If that is a fact, can someone tell me the disadvantages, if any, of making such modifications?
Thanks
Rob

Check out Sparman's write up on lifting his E
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27431&highlight=lifting
It might ride alittle stiffer my friends 03 Tacoma has a spacer lift on the front of his truck & its alittle stiffer "due to the springs being preloaded" but not that bad at all.
Larger tires weigh more = higher rotational mass = lower gas milage
taller tires = slower speedo/odometer

This is photo-shopped, but nonetheless, one of my favorite pix! ;-)

Chief

Darth Raider that is a great photoshop.
Someone needs to build that for real.

NC-B

Do you have an idea on what the lift costs?
I have the exact same vehicle.

if you looking for just a little more ground clearance in a similar vehicle, look at a 2002~2006 Honda CR-V. it has the same basic mechanicals and another 1+" of ground clearance from the factory. however, the interior is not quite as flexible/utilitarian.


I'm the original poster and am not trying to turn the Element into a serious off road vehicle. I am only interested in trying to "enhance" its existing off-road capabilities on beach sand given its potential and limitations. Correct me if I am wrong, but from the responses I've received it appears that you can gain a few more inches "ground clearance" (spec'd as 6.9" stock) by adding a suspension lift and "taller" tires. If that is a fact, can someone tell me the disadvantages, if any, of making such modifications?
Thanks
Rob

NC-B

Do you have an idea on what the lift costs?
I have the exact same vehicle.

im pricing it out now.

for everything you need, it runs about $280-$320 depending on how you do it

I've driven on the beach with no problem at all in my E.
Having driven the same beach in my old massive Jeep with an implanted Chevy 350, 4" lift and fat 33"'s I knew I could not go everywhere I wanted to, but I kept testing my E further away from the main path and found that it had plenty of power and was able to get along just fine in the deeper, looser sand. Last time I visited there was a Suzuki Samuri that was tearing through dunes that I would not have dared to venture in my Jeep (only because I was alone and the tow charges would bankrupt me) and those things have like what, 12.4hp? I thought for sure that guy would seal his own fate but he just kept traversing through the thickest, steepest dunes like it was nothing.

Like others have said, the 4WD system is not designed for off-roading per se, it's more of an advanced traction control for sticky situations. The E has none of the equipment or technology for real off-roading, apart from the issues of low ground clearance and horrible articulation. So don't expect to be able to conquer Hell's Revenge or anything close to it. If you want a true 4x4 vehicle in the Honda lineup, the Ridgeline is a true 4x4 that offers a rear locking differential and decent ground clearance.

I have driven through some decent mud and snow too and have no idea if the 4wd engaged or not but all went well. The only time I knew the system engaged was when my stock tires were worn and I took off from slick surfaces, then there was some sound, and a lurch from the added traction.

Just think of the Element as a jack of all terrains, but master of none.

Has anyone ever taken their all wheel drive Element out on sand? How did it perform? Going to the beach and don't want to get stuck.

Welcome gator-----must be in Fl:rolleyes:

Has anyone ever taken their all wheel drive Element out on sand? How did it perform? Going to the beach and don't want to get stuck.


I've driven mine on the beach last summer - let some air out of the tires and drove at an even steady speed - no problems.

Drove onto robert moses field 2 today on Fire Island in NY with my element i just purchased last week. As far as handling in loose sand it was great. I aired down to about 15psi all around and drove right on without even having to flip a 4x4 switch. Only problem I came across was when the existing tire tracks in the sand got pretty deep and i was scraping the top layer of sand off the top. I heard a little thump a few times which i think was the exhaust tapping the floor of the truck so i just took it easy in the deep stuff. I had a little slippage twice which requires immediate correction because there's such little ground clearance a couple spins of the tires and your bottomed out. However, a quick drop into reverse for 5-10 feet to get a little running start over your rut will get you through just fine.
... Love my new element proud to be part of the club.

-Brandon

It is too bad they don't offer a couple inches of extra clearance, and keep the SC lower for those who want that. I never understood why a vehicle this well suited for the outdoors was made so car-like.

I never understood why a vehicle this well suited for the outdoors was made so car-like.

Mostly because its actually a funny hat on a Honda Civic.

IE, it is a car.

Mostly because its actually a funny hat on a Honda Civic.

IE, it is a car.

Yep. The Element is based on a slightly modified CR-V, which is based on a stretched and beefed up Civic.

Mostly because its actually a funny hat on a Honda Civic.

IE, it is a car.
that is true.

No problems at all. I air down to 12-15 PSI and it goes like stink on the flat but soft beaches of LI. Airing down is the secret. I've seen G-Wagons and Jepp Wranglers get stuck because their owners thought their supreme off road vehicles don't need to: BS, unless you're running a really wide tire or hammer it straight on and straight off, you're risking digging out. Ground clearance is an issue if you ride in the "ruts" but I've never had any issues other than the nasty noise.

This pic is with the sh!tty OE tires.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j288/s-carder/Elementbeach.jpg

I have a front wheel drive and it works just fine. This winter we had a ton of snow to.

all year - no studs. we get loads of snow every year and i get around great. the ruts on our highways from studded snow tires users are a greater hazard - our okies and texans won't give them up!

I've driven on the beach with no problem at all in my E.
Having driven the same beach in my old massive Jeep with an implanted Chevy 350, 4" lift and fat 33"'s I knew I could not go everywhere I wanted to, but I kept testing my E further away from the main path and found that it had plenty of power and was able to get along just fine in the deeper, looser sand. Last time I visited there was a Suzuki Samuri that was tearing through dunes that I would not have dared to venture in my Jeep (only because I was alone and the tow charges would bankrupt me) and those things have like what, 12.4hp? I thought for sure that guy would seal his own fate but he just kept traversing through the thickest, steepest dunes like it was nothing.

Like others have said, the 4WD system is not designed for off-roading per se, it's more of an advanced traction control for sticky situations. The E has none of the equipment or technology for real off-roading, apart from the issues of low ground clearance and horrible articulation. So don't expect to be able to conquer Hell's Revenge or anything close to it. If you want a true 4x4 vehicle in the Honda lineup, the Ridgeline is a true 4x4 that offers a rear locking differential and decent ground clearance.

I have driven through some decent mud and snow too and have no idea if the 4wd engaged or not but all went well. The only time I knew the system engaged was when my stock tires were worn and I took off from slick surfaces, then there was some sound, and a lurch from the added traction.

Just think of the Element as a jack of all terrains, but master of none.


The Samurai is actually an awesome off-road vehicle, if done right. My friend had one that was running 33's (or something close - not sure how he did it) and was actually one of the people helping tow other vehicles out at the annual mudfest. He could do circles around the huge old Broncos and Jeeps.

Holy long running thread Batman 2/9/03 is the orginal post in this thread.
Heres something that some of you might be interested in trying for alittle more ground clearence. I have never used any of these I just ran across them one day.
http://www.jcwhitney.com/Coil-Springs/GP_2005889_N_111+2003+200746060+600007778_10102.jc w