Knowing the depth of info available on this forum, I am sure the answers to my questions are out there somewhere. I searched for days but was unable to find what I was looking for, so I apologize in advance if my questions have been answered already in a previous thread.

Shortly after buying the Element, I replaced the 4 stock door speakers, this made a huge difference. But now I am wondering if replacing the stock tweeters will help to clarify the high end.

I hope to get some input from any who have done this or have knowledge of the process.

I have absorbed as much as I could from the resident audio gurus (emass/sier/outpost—sorry if I omitted anyone) and referred to element-j’s pictures.

From what I read, I understand the benefit of moving the tweeters to the doors, using external crossovers, and the bad angle of the stock tweets, but would like to keep the replacement as simple, inexpensive, and close to a “drop-in” replacement as I can. I am certainly no audiophile, don’t crank it (like I used to), and simply want some better definition at the high end. I listen to mostly Rock (guitar/bass/drum/piano/vocal) and seem to be missing some “crispness”. If I had it to do over, I would probably go with the Polk 6500 components and a more powerful amp, but cost is now a consideration.

I have:
-2004 EX
-stock Headunit
-stock amp
-stock sub
-Polk db650 (2-ways) in all four doors
-stock tweeters

What I would like to do is replace the stock tweeters with some Polk db1000 units. ($100 @ crutchfield).

My questions:

1…The Polk db1000s have a “passive, in-line” crossover. Is this actually a “bass blocker” that prevents unwanted frequencies from reaching the tweeters? Is this what the stock tweeters use as well?

2…Since I already have the Polk db650 2-ways in the doors, will running a “double-tweeter” setup like this give me too much high end treble?

3…Can I use the Honda harnesses to avoid having to cut and solder the new tweeters? I may want to revert back to stock at some point in the future if I sell the Element? (Never gonna happen if you ask my 10 year old, he wants it to be his first car…)

4…Will this $100 dollar investment give me the crisp high end I desire? Should I save my money?

5…If possible, I would like to aim the replacement tweeters better. Can I do this, or will the existing A pillar “cups” prevent this?

Thanks for any info you all can provide.
DaveZ

You can switch out your factory tweeters in their stock locations. But doing some components in the front doors would give you better imaging. Traditionally you want your tweeters closer to your mids. If your just adding tweets to what you have now experiment with location before committing to a spot.

Thanks MR J.
Yeah, if I had not already installed the 2-way Polks in the doors, I would go with the components.

I am trying to avoid installing external crossovers and moving the tweeters to the doors. Judging from other's experience, having the tweeters close to the mids will give better results, though.

I'm hoping the simple swap out of the tweeters (in the A pillar location) will give me some definition.

Oh well, no feedback, guess I'll just have to give it a shot.
I'm going to order from Crutchfield today, and install and give them a try.

If there is any interest, I'll document the process and share my experieince.

1…The Polk db1000s have a “passive, in-line” crossover. Is this actually a “bass blocker” that prevents unwanted frequencies from reaching the tweeters? Is this what the stock tweeters use as well? Yes, although the Polk crossover is probably more sophisticated. My guess it would cross over faster, limiting the response of the tweeter into the midrange. The factory crossover is as basic as they come.

2…Since I already have the Polk db650 2-ways in the doors, will running a “double-tweeter” setup like this give me too much high end treble? Maybe, but you can always attenuate the output of the A pillar tweeters. See this thread (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19585).

3…Can I use the Honda harnesses to avoid having to cut and solder the new tweeters? I may want to revert back to stock at some point in the future if I sell the Element? (Never gonna happen if you ask my 10 year old, he wants it to be his first car…) Yes.

4…Will this $100 dollar investment give me the crisp high end I desire? Should I save my money? It should. I'd do it, given the way you describe your wants.

5…If possible, I would like to aim the replacement tweeters better. Can I do this, or will the existing A pillar “cups” prevent this? I don't see how you can change their aim unless you change out the factory grill. That isn't that tough to replace everything and can look great. Here is a picture from another Element owner who changed out the A pillar tweeters. You won't be able to change back to the factory tweets if you do this, but really, is that going to happen? And if you really want to change back, then just get replacement A pillars. They aren't expensive, $10 from Majestic Honda.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/940070/Tweeter.jpg

Thanks very much Outpost.
Your input was the "nudge" I needed to try this.
I read the thread on attenuating the tweeters, but this is beyond my abilities, so I will go for the direct replacement method.

I'll document and post the process and my impressions.
I appreciate the reply.

Dave, where in SW PA are you from? I know of some good audio shops in the pittsburgh area that might be able to give you some advice too.

JPH--

I live in Ligonier, work in Latrobe.

I talked to two local shops this week, both gave me the impression that they did not want to touch a job this small. Both techs I spoke with were not very interested or helpful.

If there was a shop close by as helpful as Outpost, I would love to use them.
Thanks

I wanted to replace the stock tweeters in the A pillars, but wanted as close to a “drop in” solution as I could get. After reviewing a lot of the info from the multiple “gurus” on this topic, I decided on the Polk db1000 tweeters for the replacements. I got these from Crutchfield for $100. As my previous post indicated, I have the Polk db650’s in the front and rear door. While these represented a tremendous upgrade from the stock Alpine speakers, I was missing some “definition” in the high end.

The pictures from Element-J’s website ( http://www.re-vision.com/element-j/tweeters.html ) gave me great info about how to remove the A pillars and what to expect once I got them off. From looking at these pictures I thought I would be able to add the new tweeters in the same way he did. After removing the pillars, I discovered that the stock opening for the tweeters is pretty small, so I cut out the grills and did a flush mount.

In order to remove the A pillars, I used a plastic putty knife to get behind the rubber strip that overlaps the pillar’s plastic.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/001.jpg

I then used a flat head screwdriver to gently pry down the soft plastic.

NOTE: DON’T DO THIS…I scratched the plastic easily.

I did not need the screwdriver as I could have gotten my fingers behind the piece and avoided the damage. Luckily, the rubber strip will hide this blemish.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/002.jpg


In order to remove the plastic, you need to release 2 rubber protrusions that fit into 2 holes in the metal behind the plastic. In the pic below you can see the top hole right below the headliner. In order to release these, gently tug towards the emergency brake.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/003.jpg

Once these rubber inserts are released, then pull the plastic towards the radio, it will come out very easily.
Unplug the plastic speaker wire harness so you can remove the plastic completely.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/004.jpg

Plastic rear

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/005.jpg

and front

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/006.jpg

Location of the 2 rubber pieces that secure the plastic to the metal of the A pillar

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/006a.jpg

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/006b.jpg

---CONTINUED---

The stock wire harness can be removed by simply pulling upward.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/009.jpg

Close-up of the stock tweeter.
http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/007.jpg

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/007a.jpg

Sticker on back of stock tweeter.
http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/008.jpg

The back of the “grill”. Notice that there is an angle that kind of aims the stock tweeter.
Also notice how small the actual opening is compared to the front of the grill.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/010.jpg

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/019.jpg

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/011.jpg

These are the new Polks

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/012.jpg

---CONTINUED---

The new Polks come with:
-Cup for surface mount
-Cup for flush mount
-Metal bracket to secure the flush mount
-Passive in-line crossover
-Tweeters

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/013.jpg
http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/014.jpg
http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/015.jpg

After seeing the size difference between the stock tweeters and the Polks, it quickly became apparent that my idea of “dropping” these in was out the window.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/017.jpg

I decided that I would cut the grills and do a flush mount.
I figured that if I screwed it up too bad, I could buy new plastic for the pillars from Majestic Honda for about 10-12 bucks.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/018.jpg

Diagram from the installation manual showing the flush mount method.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/018a.jpg

I used a candle to heat up my razor knife and cut a rough opening. I cut the opening smaller than needed because I would be using a dremel to expand the opening.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/021.jpg

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/022.jpg

---CONTINUED---

I used the dremel sparingly, expanding the hole slowly, and kept checking the fit of the cup.
This plastic is very soft. I was also very careful not to scar the area around the grill as this would show once the tweeters were in. Once again, if you do make a mistake, the replacement plastic is inexpensive.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/025.jpg

I wanted the cup to be snug.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/024.jpg

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/026.jpg

After seating the cup, I installed the tweeter as shown in the manual’s diagram.
Shot of the back, showing how the metal clamp holds the cup in place.
(sorry this picture is blurry)

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/027.jpg

Tweeter installed.
Fit was nice and tight.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/028.jpg

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/029.jpg

Once the tweeter was in the cup, I added the rest of the cabling for the passive in-line crossover.
There was a whole lot of wire that I didn’t need but I hesitated on cutting and splicing because I may want to move the tweeters to the door at some point, so I wanted to leave the cabling intact. This presented a problem. How to secure the wires behind the plastic and still make the plastic fit back onto the pillars?

While I’m sure that many of the audio installation experts on the EOC would be appalled at this sloppy work, I decided to go this route just in case:
1. I was not pleased with the sound difference compared to the old tweeters.
2. I may want to move these to the doors in the future.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/030.jpg

I had some aluminum flashing laying around, so decided to use the Element-j method and fabricate a “strap” to hold the excess wire in place. Some folks have also used old PCI slot covers from a computer to do the same thing.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/031.jpg


---CONTINUED---

I cut a strip, folded it 3 times, and drilled holes to line up with the original tweeter mounting points.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/032.jpg

I used the original screws to fasten the homemade strip.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/033.jpg

I tucked the corner of the passive in-line crossover underneath a recess in the plastic to hold it on place.
If I go back to shorten the wires, I will use double sided tape to secure this better. Right now the strap and the excess wire are holding it in place.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/034.jpg


Time to put the plastic back in place and see if the excess wire will cause a problem with the fit.
I thought about cutting the wire harness off of the old tweeter and using that, but decided to just cut the harness off of the wiring coming from the amp.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/035.jpg


I used wire nuts to secure the wires.
I am not sure if this method (over soldering the wires) will have a detrimental effect on the sound quality.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/036.jpg

I used the plastic putty knife to get the rubber seal on the outside of the plastic and kept working it into place.
You have to work slowly making sure the plastic gets seated correctly.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/037.jpg


Once the rubber inserts are lined up correctly with the holes in the metal pillar, a firm push should secure them.
Looks like there is enough clearance behind the plastic for the excess wire.

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/038.jpg


---CONTINUED---

Finished product

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/039.jpg

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/040.jpg

It seems there is just a tiny gap near the top of the plastic.
I am not sure if this was there prior to the installation or if it is being caused by having all that wire behind the plastic. When I go back and remove the excess wire, I am hoping the plastic will fit a little tighter

http://www.ladybughill.com/davez/eoc/tweeters/resizedpix/041.jpg


Now comes the test…

I installed the right side, keeping the left side stock and went for a ride. I used various CDs to test the quality between the 2 sides and kept panning back and forth with the balance. The difference was unmistakable. The Polks were so much clearer and definitely gave me the high end definition I was looking for. The song that sealed the deal for me was Steely Dan , “My Old School”. The guitar solo and horns on this cut sounded amazing. The dynamics of the guitar solo (the choking, plucking, sustain) were represented faithfully.

I quickly drove back home and installed the left side tweeter. The right side took me about 90 minutes because I was making it up as I went along. The left side was installed in about half the time.

Overall the investment in cash ($100) and time (2.5 hours) was well worth it.
Next weekend I will go back and remove the excess wire.

---END---

Looks great, great fit. I'd think about painting them white to match the pillar. That flush mounting cup is a perfect fit.

Hey DaveZ,

Great post and pic's! I can already foresee my next upgrade. I've recently replaced the door speakers w/6.5" Polk db650's & the tweeter mod looks like something I can tackle. The pic's make the procedure EZ to follow. Thx! :D

Thanks folks...

gibroni-
Painting the plastic is an idea, but the contrasting black tweeter on the light colored pillar has grown on me. Yeah, the cup was a good fit, glad I went with the Polks. (love that Dremel)

K-Dogg-
I am certainly no audiophile, but the tweeter replacement made a huge difference, even to my pedestrian ears. If I had it to do over, I would put the Polk components in the door and the pillar, but the db650s and these tweeters are great for me. The install is not difficult at all. I was just a wussy about cutting into the grills on the pillar...
Also, not having to mess with the placement of larger crossovers was a plus.

One thing I would like to do is cut out the door grills for the speakers. Someone, I think it was Gregg (Outpost4), did something like that and it looks great. I took the OEM grills off just to see if it makes a difference and it did. The openings in the Honda grills sound like they are muffling somewhat. With them off, it sounded crisper.

Very nice work, Dave, and great documentation. I applaud all that you did. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/940070/fing32.gif

Yes, getting rid of the factory door grills made a big difference in my car. I will love to see how you solve that problem.

Very nice work, Dave, and great documentation. I applaud all that you did. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/940070/fing32.gif
Ditto... Very sweet play by play! Makes me wanna try...:cool:

Thanks guys, appreciate the comments.

I have been lurking in the shadows for way too long and have learned so much from those that document their work. I am trying to pay it back in some small ways. I never would have had the guts to try a lot of of the stuff I did were it not for those that went before me.

I am formulating a plan to cut the door grills and use some generic 6.5" speaker grills to allow the Polk db650s to sound clearer. The grills that came with the Polks are not protective enough for my tastes. I am constantly getting mud, dirt, water on the driver's side grill from my big, fat, dirty boots and don't think the Polk grills will give me enough protection. I am also ordering replacement grills from Majestic Honda (just in case I mess up the originals). I will certainly document my progress (or lack thereof).

Thanks again.

My passenger tweeter just went bad on my 03 Element EX. It started screeching to the music. I was originally thinking of just replacing with stock replacement tweeters.

I ordered a pair of db1001's to put replace them... Thanks to your post I know I can DIY. I just hope I get the polarity right. I guess these are updated version of the db1000. Cost $52 at Amazon.

Kinda reminds me of cutting and installing fog lights in the front bumper :)

P.S. I still have a 99 CRV and 02 S2000.

Trying everything I can to pry the A pillar open, but the SRS side airbag seems to be in the way, plus I probably bent something SRS behind the pillar because I didn't notice it at first....

Anybody with Side airbags on the A pillar? I can't seem to break that thing open, no matter how hard I pry it. it seems to have more clips holding the pillars to the frame. Help please thanks

Anybody with Side airbags on the A pillar? I can't seem to break that thing open, no matter how hard I pry it. it seems to have more clips holding the pillars to the frame. Help please thanks

PM Yoda E SC, he will be able to help you. From what I remember, you need
to hit certain areas with a mallet to break the clips. The clips are a one time
use deal, so you will need to go to the dealer and get some more to put the
pillar trim back on. If you cant get Yoda to help, you should go to the H and A
website, they have PDF files on how to install every accessory for the E,
and I know for a fact that more than one of them has the how to on this.

You need to smack the tp of the a-pillar really hard with a rubber mallet or plastic hammer with a rag covering it, right where the SRS logo is. that will break the one time use clips that aztec speaks of. you will need new ones when you put it back together.

A pdf that shows how to remove the trim is located here (http://www.bernardiparts.com/Images/Install/2009_Element_HandsFreeLink_AII41335.pdf).

The clip P/N looks like 91561-SCV-A01, but it's a bit tricky to tell from the parts diagram.

I'm seriously looking into adding the db1001's to go along with the db651s' I installed. The factory tweets sound pretty harsh to me.

This is an excellent thread! It should be sticky'd!

-atetra

Thanks Alot guys!
So thats what the red clip was for, its weird how you gotta tap it with a mallet, I would of never figured that out. Glad I asked before I went berserk on it.
Thanks all

I'm thinking about replacing mine too. I noticed on a link here from an element owner (Jelement I think?) Where he had pictures of his installation. It showed a crossover hooked up to the stock tweeters. Couldn't I just use those with mine? I have a pair of Rainbow tweeters from a component set but lost the crossover to them. Not going to install an amp yet so was wondering if those stock crossovers would do the trick.


Thanks

what ohm are they and where is it you want the crossover point? I can tell you the mF that you want to use for a crossover.

Not sure. I guess 3-4k 12db slope. They are 4ohms

11.37mf cap will get you 6db rolloff at 3500hz. the calculator for 6db (single component first order passive crossover is 1/ 2x3.14xfrequencyxohm load. multiply that by 1 million (1,000,000) and you have the mf of the cap to put in line. you can do that for any tweeters. Just make sure you have ones that are rated at a high enough AC voltage to handle your amp. You can check that with a 1k test tone and all outputs disconnected from the amp, and hook an auto ranging digital multimeter to the outputs on AC voltage. Add 20% or so to the voltage found to get what the caps should be rated at to handle the output.

If you have to have 12db rolloff then you will want a 5.7mf cap on the positive lead and a .36mH coil across the positive and negative leads, between the cap and the speaker. The problem with 2nd order crossovers is that if you blow a speaker the output of the amp can be damaged by the dead short presented to it. This is why most tweeter only crossovers are caps only as there is much less of a chance when using a component system (mid and tweet with crossover network) that you will blow both and cause damage to the amp.

Much useful info can be found at www.bcae1.com . we used to tell all our students at II about it when is was there.

At that angle do they actually function as tweeters or more like "imaging tweeters" in which case the crossover point should probably be moved up to 8k or 10k at least.

Some observations:

1. After mounting the tweeter and crossover, shorten the cable between them and make solder connections. Tweeter coil failure is far more likely than passive crossover failure. If either happens, the tweeters and crossovers should be replaced as a matched set.

2. Rather than using wire nuts or direct soldering to connect the completed assembly to the body harness, tin the wire ends with solder and use inline bayonet or bullet crimp disconnects. These connectors are more reliable, compact, lower resistance, make it simple to remove the pillar panels if necessary, and very easy to service or replace the tweeters. By connecting male connectors to the striped wires of the body harness, females to the plain ones and mating connectors to the similar speaker leads, assuring consistent polarization is simple.

3. If inline disconnects are used, you can trim the tweeter cables to a short length, like the OEM speakers, instead of coiling them within the A pillar.

4. High frequency direct radiators have a very wide dispersion pattern when front mounted. There is no acoustic advantage to "slanting" them a few degrees within in a vehicle, unless the intent is to direct some sound against or away from an external reflective surface.

I recently installed the Infinity components out of my old car in the E. Even on the factory system the speakers are a noticeable improvement, especially the tweeters. I took a bunch of pictures of my tweeter install to do a how-to, and then found this one. Oh, well, at least I can post some photos of the clips on the '07-up models. I used a sledge wrapped in a towel, and got the first clip out by completely destroying it (you could hear it break) and the second by hitting it a few times and then pulling on the trim piece (that is the aim of the hammer method based on the illustrations, they just want you to hammer the clip back in through the sleeve it is sitting in). Also, a question: While I was doing the install, I noticed a small capacitor I assumed was an inline crossover for the factory tweeter, and wondered if there was no crossover in the amp and if the wiring was sending full-frequency sound to the new tweeters. After thinking about it and reading, I decided to install the crossovers that came with my components. I was going to skip them because Iread in another thread that someone thought the amp had a built-in crossover. I assumed the front door speaker wiring harness had wires coming into the harness for the mids and then wires going out to the tweeters which would make the crossover install easy. This is not the case as far as I can tell though. It looks like the wires in the door just double back to the harness under the kickpanel and the tweeter wires split off from there. I was able to locate the tweeter wires under the driver's side dash and splice in the crossover there, but no such luck on the passenger side. Does anyone know where I could access the passenger side tweeter wires without taking the A pillar off again? I'm not too crazy about paying $3 every time I want to take it off. I know I could wire up the crossovers in the doors, but then I would have to run the tweeter wires through the door tubes and it seems like a pretty tight fit in there and patience is not one of my many redeeming traits. Thanks for reading.

Pictures: Factory inline crossover on tweeter, A-pillar clips on newer E's, finished product

I have an 06 LX, with no tweeters. I do have an aftermarket HU installed.. I am assuming that if I were to install the tweeters, i would have to run a separate amp as well?

I have an 06 LX, with no tweeters. I do have an aftermarket HU installed.. I am assuming that if I were to install the tweeters, i would have to run a separate amp as well?

You can tap them into the front speaker lines behind the radio safely, as long as it is a brand name radio you have and not a cheapy. We do it all the time... ;-)