: Help my dog might be a terrorist
cai88 09-26-2006, 06:12 PM Ok she's not Al Qaeda but we are having a really bad biting problem. I know puppies bite on everything because they are teething but sometimes she goes into attack mode.
I bought a book and I've tried everything the book said but the attack doesn't stop. I've shaken a jar with coins at her, yelled ouch, yelped like a hurt puppy, said bad dog and totally ignored her. I also always praise her when she is being good and I give her treats.
HELP!!!! other than these moments she is so cute and perfect.
You don't say how old nor what type of breed your puppy is. I raise Border Terriers and what I do if the puppy is biting and attacking is
- grab scruff of neck (hard but don't shake and hurt neck)
- growl at puppy
- say NO in deep tone of voice and loud
-walk away
This is exactly what the mother would do. Make sure the puppy is getting plenty of exercise to burn off the energy. After several times of above the puppy should stop. Good luck. :) MJ
cai88 09-26-2006, 06:27 PM Thanks MJ. My dog is 9 weeks and she's a puggle.
I tried growling once but she thought it was a game
No doesn't work
Sometimes when I try to walk away she gets my ankle or my pant leg.
The skin thing I did today because the book said that too but she really went nuts. It didn;t make her stop at all.
perfdata 09-26-2006, 06:37 PM Hi, my name is Rio:
http://www.perfectiondata.com/images/Rio1.jpg
I am now 7 years old and I was once a long time ago a puppy. My mom and dad got me at 6 weeks so I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to chew, if I had stayed in my litter two more weeks I would have learned that.
Anyway, I chewed on a couple of things; Dad's slipper, a Christmas ornament, a sock. What Mom and Dad did was the following:
Grabbed whatever I was chewing and said "NO!" You gotta be tough, those puppy eyes will melt you but you need to be the alpha and use a deep stern voice. You also have to do it when the little guy is in the act, otherwise he/she will no relate the discipline to the action.
If I was trying to chew on them they pushed my cheeks in so I would bite myself.
Never gave me things that were okay to chew, everything was off limits.
When I stopped chewing they said "Good Dog" and praised me, it made me feel good.
If you need more help let me know and I'll have Mom write to you, she's pretty smart. I don't know about Dad, his new car looks like a big box.
Barks and licks,
-Rio
cai88 09-26-2006, 06:47 PM LOL thanks Rio. I'll try pushing her cheeks in. That's a new one.
Element_Kid 09-26-2006, 07:00 PM - grab scruff of neck (hard but don't shake and hurt neck)
- growl at puppy
- say NO in deep tone of voice and loud
-walk away
This is exactly what the mother would do.
The problem with these suggestions are we are not dogs so applying what "the mother would do" is silly and often a way people justify hurting their dog's psyche.
Dogs do things because it works for them. They are getting something out of what they do. You go to work because you get paid, you eat chocolate because it makes you feel good, etc. Your dog is getting some sort of reinforcement for biting (intentionally or not).
Dogs need consistency. My suggestion is to utilize tried and true methods that do not involve old fashioned, forced based methods which more than likely will prove deterimental to a trusting relationship between you and your dog.
I hear you saying what you do: yell, growl, ignore, scruff shake, etc. (Ignoring is the only one I would suggest keeping your toolbox by the way).
Your best plan of action:
(1) Prevent the behavior!
- Perhaps you are getting her too worked up and she is playing with her mouth out of excitement. Evaluate your playtime with her and restructure it so she isn't getting so excited. (i.e. is she just biting when we play tug)
- Make sure she's getting plenty of exercise. A tired dog is a well behaved dog.
- Is someone allowing this type of play with her? If so she is getting reinforcement. Help yourself out now, learn the principle that random reinforcement is going to encourage her to keep doing something you don't want. Everyone in the house needs to play by the same rules with her.
- Give her something to do. When you sit down to play with her get her gnawing on a huge greenie or a frozen kong stuffed with baby food and peanut butter. Give her something else to do with her mouth!
(2) If it happens, interrupt it. How?
- CONSISTENTLY (as in every time and from everyone in the house) get up walk out of the room for 30 seconds. Yes, get your butt up every time. This could be 20 times, 30 times. Do it consistently. Don't yell, don't push her, give her nothing that will stimulate her and unintentionally reinforce her.
(3) Find a positive reinforcement trainer. Go to www.apdt.org and search for a trainer and get into a puppy class now! The majority of socialization for puppies needs to be done by 16 weeks of age. Get her out there meeting plenty of well mannered dogs and people of all ages, size, colors, etc.
(4) Buy The Power of Positive Dog Training by Pat Miller and read it!
(5) Turn off the Dog Whisperer. His methods are old fashioned and forced based (and not often used correctly anyway) and not condusive to a trusting relationship between the pet dog and owner.
(6) Always use an easy walk harness by Premier pet products. Chokes and prongs are harmful and dangerous to your dog physically and mentally. Gentle leaders are often hated by dogs and can cause harmful neck injuries.
These methods and other positive methods work. All mammals learn according to the same principles. Don't think positive methods work? Go to Sea World. Count how many whales they have on choke chains and grab the backs of their necks and yell no at in order to get them to jump in the air. You won't see it because you physically cannot manipulate a whale into doing something you want him to do. Just because you CAN physically do something to your dog doesn't mean you should or have to.
Good luck! Feel free to email me any questions.
A POSTIVE dog trainer in NJ.
Element_Kid 09-26-2006, 07:03 PM Oh yeah. You may want to start off with Before & After You Get Your Puppy by Ian Dunbar.
Element_Kid 09-26-2006, 07:04 PM Sorry. Website is www.apdt.com not org.
perfdata 09-26-2006, 07:08 PM Rio here
http://www.perfectiondata.com/images/Rio2.jpg
Oops, I goofed up. When I was chewing on something I wasn't supposed to they said "NO!" and then gave me one of my toys that was okay to chew on.
I knew I should have had Mom help me with this, Mr. Square Car isn't the smartest when it comes to animals. I think Element_Kid has it right, especially the Kong with the peanut butter, that's really good! Hey, where is my Kong, I haven't seen it in years. MOM!!!
-Rio
ann54 09-26-2006, 07:34 PM believe me i have the original terrorist dog-he is 15 now and luckily he has slowed down to the point where you can get out of his way before he sinks his teeth in. sounds like your puppy is playing, albeit a little roughly. i've found that saying no and then ignoring him or her works well. puggles are adorable.
cai88 09-26-2006, 08:14 PM As always the EOC comes through. Today I think the behavior had a lot to do with my inpatient sister being home with poor Bella all day.
The behavior happens alot when we have alot of people over. Lately this is alot since they are coming to see her. Seems like all the voices confuse her and set her off.
but she's so damn cute!!!
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27536
Junebug 09-26-2006, 08:49 PM What do people think about Bitter Apple, a non-harmful spray that tastes icky to most dogs? We had extraordinary luck with our lab puppy, but the Bitter Apple seemed to help too.
I agree with the others about having plenty of "good" toys (some choose to rotate toys every week or so, so they're always "new" to the pup) and replacing the bad chew thing with a good one. That, and lots of patience and consistency amongst the humans. Keep working on and enforcing the good habits, and you'll reap the dividends later!
Junebug 09-26-2006, 08:51 PM That, and lots of patience and consistency amongst the humans. Keep working on and enforcing the good habits, and you'll reap the dividends later!
Ha, I wrote that before reading your last post about your sister. That's a huge part! Ahh, patience. :)
FYKshun 09-26-2006, 09:06 PM I am smitten with Rio. That face!
PugMom 09-26-2006, 09:30 PM My Pug, Skippy was a biter like that. Then we got Elli, and she bites the crap out of him (even tho he's 10 pounds heavier, she's the ALPHA!) No more trouble with Skippy!!!:D :lol: I HAVE to get a Puggle next----your's is darling!!!!
cai88 09-27-2006, 08:30 AM Ok now here's a question. Is too may toys an issue? This dog owns stock in Petsmart! Did we spoil her too much?
perfdata 09-27-2006, 08:43 AM Ok now here's a question. Is too may toys an issue? This dog owns stock in Petsmart! Did we spoil her too much?
http://www.perfectiondata.com/images/Rio3.jpg
No, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have too many toys! I have 3 file boxes full of toys, my Aunt Lisa gave them all to me. I also have a box full of tennis balls Aunt Robbie game me. I don't get to have them all out at once and I do leave them everywhere.
My favorite was a big stuffed football I would hang onto during Broncos games but it wore out. My favorite now is a Dolphin, Dad said to chew on it a lot since we lost to them last year.
Make sure that you check every grocery or shopping bag that comes into the house for new toys!
And, I am the King of Spoiled!
Barks and Licks,
-Rio
No, you can never have too many toys. Especially if you have more than one dog . . . it cuts down on the fighting over a particular toy.
Back to your dog . . . have you tried beating it? Just get a lead pipe and hammer away until the behavior stops. Barbaric? Yeah, probably. Maybe you could just put it in a box all day, I hear that solves EVERY problem EVER with dogs.
Come to think of it, both of those ideas are unspeakably cruel. Stick with the chew toys, the spray, and the postitive re-enforcement.
perfdata 09-27-2006, 09:05 AM I am smitten with Rio. That face!
http://www.perfectiondata.com/images/Rio4.jpg
Well thank you! You're a good looking pup also! I'm one of those All-American dogs - 1/2 Rott, 1/4 Shepherd, 1/4 Husky.
Dad doesn't have any current pictues of me loaded up, these are from when I was 6 months old. I have some great new ones of me living in Colorado, I excaped Illinois 2 years ago and it's great here.
Do you like to go on hikes? My mom sells books for dogs with ideas what you can take your owner to do, you can find them here (http://www.trailresources.com/dogbooks.html). I hope it's okay I put this up here, I get a commission on these!
Bark and Licks (but nothing else, I'm neutered),
-Rio
ann54 09-27-2006, 10:13 AM Four dogs-100m toys, some half-chewed, most missing squeakers. Can't throw any away because the babies sit by the garbage can and whine for them.:D
FYKshun 09-29-2006, 12:34 AM Grace is half shepherd and (according to the shelter paperwork) half husky, but I suspect it may be other things. Also, I can't seem to get her to do her own typing.
Thanks for the link to those books. I don't think there are any restrictions around here on shameless self-promotion, but given the number of dog owners who bought E's for their furry friends, I would bet that link may provide valuable resources for the folks around here.
Oh, additionally, a friend of mine suggested hitting garage sales for stuffed animals on the cheap instead of paying pet store prices. Sixteen bucks was awfully expensive for a stuffed animal which could be reduced to individual molecules within fifteen minutes.
perfdata 09-29-2006, 09:30 AM http://www.perfectiondata.com/images/Rio5.jpg
I thought we kind of looked alike, I was also a rescue. 12 pups, Mom and Dad had room for only one at the time, otherwise they would have taken 3 of us. Now we live in the mountains with lots of room to run and play.
Getting back to that puppy terrorist stuff, I just remembered that I went to a year of school (4-10 week sessions) with a trainer that bred and trained Grand National Champion Rotts. I learned a lot by Mom and Dad probably learned more, everyone says I listen and behave well. I'm still sort of independent but I know when it's time to listen and obey. The worst thing I do these days is make stink after I eat brocolli 3 times a week (I need it for the fiber).
I got a REALLY big keyboard so I could be on the Internet and send send e-mails but Dad had blocked me from PetSmart since the time I ordered a UPS truckload of toys and treats.
Gotta go pout so I get some attention, have a great day!
Barks and Licks,
-Rio
elevet 09-29-2006, 03:47 PM HI and congratulations. If you are still having problems despite all the good advice to try-PM me. I really recommend the book Good Owners, Great Dogs by Brian Kilcommon. Also, instead of always saying "no" I would recommend giving a command like "drop it" or "leave it." "No" quickly becomes an all purpose command that gets tuned out because there are too many expectations for the one word. Kongs and crates are the bomb for training puppies. Consistency is a must-you must be more persistent and stubborn than they are (not mean or physically hurtful). Good Luck-remember, adult teething doesn't start until about 4 mo of age and takes a few months to complete-
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