Can anyone in the Honolulu area answer a few questions for me, please? My little sister's neighbors are planning to relocate from Kansas City, Missouri to Honolulu. He is planning on taking a job with Fedex.

Here's the problem. They've been told to come with $5000 in their pocket and that no one can show them any apartment for rent until they arrive on the island.

This is all happening so quickly that they are reluctant to just arrive with no firm plans about where to live or what areas may even be within their budget. They vacationed there a few weeks ago but weren't even considering moving at the time so they just spent their time enjoying their surroundings.

Is there a place they can rent with a short-term lease until they become more familiar with their surroundings?

What is a reasonable amount of money they can expect to pay for some fairly modest accomodations? It will just be the two of them (late 40s and early 50s).

Are there any questions they should be asking but don't know enough about relocating to ask?

I'd appreciate any help you can provide. They've been excellent neighbors to my sister and she's really sad about their decision to move but she wants to help them out because they are so overwhelmed.

We plan to search online for more information but I was hoping to hear from people who live there for more accurate information. Thanks in advance for the information.

Hi

First thing to find out is what Fed Ex is going to do for them. Relocation packages range from nothing to pretty good these days. It's possible that the first 30 days of living will be on Fed Ex. That should be plenty of time to get things sorted out.

Bob

Apparently there isn't going to be much relocation assistance because he is not "management." It sounds like they have to do a lot of this on their own. We asked about having him fly out early to start the job but they aren't providing him with any temporary living arrangements.

Hi

I would be *very* carefull on a move like that. They are moving from a "cheap" city (I've lived there) to a *very* expensive one. The job better be a real good one ....

Bob

Rentals here are pretty high compared to the mainland. The good news is their age and the fact that he has a job with a reputable company, make it a lot easier. Plan on at least $1,200 or more for an apartment unless you get really lucky. I think they would want something on the Leeward coast like Pearl City or Aiea (try to stay away from Waianae and Nanakuli. Ewa is probably the farthest I would recommend) since FedEx is in the Airport area. Also, people from the mainland always comment about the price of food here so be prepared for food shock. Gas is about $2.87 but be prepared for extreme traffic. Other areas to consider are Honolulu, Kailua and Kaneohe (windward side but freeway can get you to the airport in 20 min.). There are a lot of vacation rentals and small Bed and Breakfast places so they can use those to tide them over. Hopefully some of the other E guys here may know of places.

That's the kind of information I needed. Thanks. I might post more information once I get a few more details.

I appreciate all of your help.

One more thing, I would strongly suggest a GPS like a Garmin Nuvi 350 since Oahu is a pretty hard place to drive around with the traffic, street names and one way streets. The GPS will direct them and save them a lot of time and frustration.

Yeah Turbo pretty much summed it up except for I thought rentals were at a shortage here in Hawaii??..TUrbo?? oh yeah and I know some people renting a two bedroom apartment for around 1300.00...Rent is very high and at a shortage so with those two factors renting will be tough.IMO....hope this helps....Try maybe talking to a realtor from Hawaii..sorry I can't recommend one...cool

I think Turbo's pretty much got it covered, but to reiterate, be prepared for "sticker shock" for just about everything. Housing, food, fuel, consumer goods, etc. Such is the price paid for living in 'Paradise'.

We're a chain of islands in the middle of the largest ocean on the planet and > 90% of all consumables are imported, either by air or sea, and we've seen it all. Transportation disruptions, dock strikes, increasing fuel surcharges, etc. and even the slightest fluctuations in any of those variables can have a dramatic effect on prices.

I don't recall what the median income is, but the median price of a single-family home is well in excess of $0.6 million, $0.3 million for condo's. The average household needs to earn in the very high fives or into the six figures to even dream of home ownership. Many work 2 or 3 jobs in order to make ends meet. Availablilty of housing in the Honolulu urban core, even to rent, is extremely difficult to find. They need to be prepared to pay a premium. Many households here are actually comprised of extended families, and it's quite common for 2 or 3 generations of a family to live under the same roof. Owning a home here is simply out of the reach for a lot of people.

Aside from the economic realities, there are other considerations as well, such as "liveability". Honolulu is much like any other major city, rife with traffic, noise, and congestion. The unique east-west orientation (bordered by mountains to the north, the ocean to the south) of the Honolulu urban core only exacerbates this. The big issue today that has the community divided is whether or not the City needs or wants rail, whether or not it'll help to solve Honolulu's traffic woes, or whether the City can even afford it. If the plan for rail gets through the city council, tax increases to pay for the system are inevitable and those are always very unpopular, especially by working families on a shoestring. Either way, it'll be very controversial. Most travel daily into the Honolulu urban core from outlying "bedroom" communities and the average commute is well over an hour one way.

Development continues to run rampant throughout the Hawaiian Islands and it threatens the very fabric of the quality of life here. On Oahu, a controversial proposed development and expansion of a resort on the rural North Shore has the community divided. With the demise of big agriculture and lagging impetus to diversify, many landowners are actively seeking to rezone, which encourages a pro-development stance. Increased development will continue to strain resources i.e. water, tax the infrastructure, and reduce the green space Hawaii is known for. With an increasing dependence on tourism, we continue to push toward being a service-dependent economy. Not good.

A few months ago, due to the negligence of a military contractor and damage caused to a pedestrian overpass, the only major artery (H-1) with access to west oahu, brought traffic to a standstill and resulted in the worst logjam in Honolulu history. Earlier during the spring and after 40 days of relentless rain, an aging sewer system was overwhelmed and resulted in the dumping of over 40 million gallons of raw, untreated sewage into the Ala Wai canal, a major drainage artery that leads directly into the sea. Then there is of course, the occasional hurricane or earthquake. Motor vehicle fatalities on Oahu are at an all-time high (nearly half involved DUI's), and Honolulu ranks very low on the list when it comes to being a bicycle or pedestrian-friendly town. There are folks who actually go "stir crazy" because over here, you can't simply jump in your car and drive for hours or go across the state line to get away... We are quite literally, on a rock.

Finally, newcomers need to be prepared for a bit of "culture shock". Honolulu (and Hawaii in general) is a very cosmopolitan place. It's description as the "melting pot" and crossroads of the Pacific is apt. Attitudes, outlooks, and values are a bit different and newcomers need to be sensitive to that. Then there is the host culture, which in and of itself, deserves an appreciation, respect, and understanding. If people can't get beyond a "mainland-centric" world view, they will not be happy here. Folks need to be particularly sensitive to, or at least have an understanding of Native Hawaiian issues. There are many here (and though it sits just below the radar) who believe that Hawaii is a nation occupied. The 1893 overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy by a cadre of American businessmen, backed by the US military, remains a very sensitive issue to this day. The aloha spirit, which may be increasingly difficult to find as the years go by, is still very much alive, but it very much needs to be earned. The values of akahai, lokahi, `olu`olu, ha`aha`a, and ahonui all need to be demonstrated before they can be received.

However life in Hawaii does have certain advantages. The weather is generally mild year-round, the average temperature is in the low to mid 80's, water temperature in the high 70's to low 80's. We really don't have "seasons", per se. Outside of the tourist trap that Waikiki has become, there are beautiful beaches. Peace and solitude can be found just a few miles outside of the urban core on any number of hiking trails ( the occasional drone from a helicopter or plane not withstanding). We have world-class restaurants and pan-Pacific fusion cuisine. We have surfing and excellent golf (if you can afford it). When people aren't stressed out, they're generally pretty nice and of course we have the host culture. The Hawaiian people, their culture, history, language, values, music, etc. all make this place unique and truly special.

They'll need to consider all of the above and make a true assessment to see if this move is for them. If one comes here with an open mind and can get beyond the perception of Hawaii as a place of hula girls with the wiggly hips and lilting smiles, grass shacks, and coconut trees, and can come to understand, appreciate, and embrace its diversity, then I say to you, e komo mai and aloha.

Hi

Just to give a little contrast - Kansas City, Missouri is a city that you can still buy a house for under $200,000. It may not be a great big house in the suburbs, but it's a house you can live in.

A unique and unmentioned so far aspect of Hawaii is the odd status of land ownership. For the most part when you buy your house you only rent the land under it. Effectively the land owner gets it all back in 99 years or what ever the term is.

Bob

Thanks for all the insight you guys! It's hard to convince people that they don't have a true assessment of a place simply because they vacationed there for a couple of weeks.

Hopefully they will consider some of the issues you mentioned because they've been so worried about getting there that I'm not sure they've thought about what it will be like to live there and to try to blend into a new community.

Hi

A unique and unmentioned so far aspect of Hawaii is the odd status of land ownership. For the most part when you buy your house you only rent the land under it. Effectively the land owner gets it all back in 99 years or what ever the term is.

Bob

This is an excellent point. If anyone is considering home ownership here (local or otherwise), they had better do their research and think long and hard about the question of fee simple vs. leasehold. The issue of land tenure in Hawaii is little understood, but a very, very significant one indeed.

This is an excellent point. If anyone is considering home ownership here (local or otherwise), they had better do their research and think long and hard about the question of fee simple vs. leasehold. The issue of land tenure in Hawaii is little understood, but a very, very significant one indeed.

First K Dogg your other post was very very accurate. For someone working at the airport Salt Lake/Moanalua is a good option. Actually they could live in town since they would be going against traffic.

Most houses are now fee simple, condos more mixed. The market is slowing down, maybe even cooling off.

The trade off is we all thought it was chilly last night when it got down to 70.8-)

I remember being in Jeff City, MO and having to stop at what I felt was the biggest Walmart I had ever seen. I was so surprised at the low prices (as compared to the Honolulu Walmart) I mentioned it to the cashier who looked at me like "what are you talking about, it's always like this." But Missouri is a great place and the people I met seem to have a culture similar to Hawaii --

I think Turbo's pretty much got it covered, but to reiterate, be prepared for "sticker shock" for just about everything. Housing, food, fuel, consumer goods, etc. Such is the price paid for living in 'Paradise'.

We're a chain of islands in the middle of the largest ocean on the planet and > 90% of all consumables are imported, either by air or sea, and we've seen it all. Transportation disruptions, dock strikes, increasing fuel surcharges, etc. and even the slightest fluctuations in any of those variables can have a dramatic effect on prices.

I don't recall what the median income is, but the median price of a single-family home is well in excess of $0.6 million, $0.3 million for condo's. The average household needs to earn in the very high fives or into the six figures to even dream of home ownership. Many work 2 or 3 jobs in order to make ends meet. Availablilty of housing in the Honolulu urban core, even to rent, is extremely difficult to find. They need to be prepared to pay a premium. Many households here are actually comprised of extended families, and it's quite common for 2 or 3 generations of a family to live under the same roof. Owning a home here is simply out of the reach for a lot of people.

Aside from the economic realities, there are other considerations as well, such as "liveability". Honolulu is much like any other major city, rife with traffic, noise, and congestion. The unique east-west orientation (bordered by mountains to the north, the ocean to the south) of the Honolulu urban core only exacerbates this. The big issue today that has the community divided is whether or not the City needs or wants rail, whether or not it'll help to solve Honolulu's traffic woes, or whether the City can even afford it. If the plan for rail gets through the city council, tax increases to pay for the system are inevitable and those are always very unpopular, especially by working families on a shoestring. Either way, it'll be very controversial. Most travel daily into the Honolulu urban core from outlying "bedroom" communities and the average commute is well over an hour one way.

Development continues to run rampant throughout the Hawaiian Islands and it threatens the very fabric of the quality of life here. On Oahu, a controversial proposed development and expansion of a resort on the rural North Shore has the community divided. With the demise of big agriculture and lagging impetus to diversify, many landowners are actively seeking to rezone, which encourages a pro-development stance. Increased development will continue to strain resources i.e. water, tax the infrastructure, and reduce the green space Hawaii is known for. With an increasing dependence on tourism, we continue to push toward being a service-dependent economy. Not good.

A few months ago, due to the negligence of a military contractor and damage caused to a pedestrian overpass, the only major artery (H-1) with access to west oahu, brought traffic to a standstill and resulted in the worst logjam in Honolulu history. Earlier during the spring and after 40 days of relentless rain, an aging sewer system was overwhelmed and resulted in the dumping of over 40 million gallons of raw, untreated sewage into the Ala Wai canal, a major drainage artery that leads directly into the sea. Then there is of course, the occasional hurricane or earthquake. Motor vehicle fatalities on Oahu are at an all-time high (nearly half involved DUI's), and Honolulu ranks very low on the list when it comes to being a bicycle or pedestrian-friendly town. There are folks who actually go "stir crazy" because over here, you can't simply jump in your car and drive for hours or go across the state line to get away... We are quite literally, on a rock.

Finally, newcomers need to be prepared for a bit of "culture shock". Honolulu (and Hawaii in general) is a very cosmopolitan place. It's description as the "melting pot" and crossroads of the Pacific is apt. Attitudes, outlooks, and values are a bit different and newcomers need to be sensitive to that. Then there is the host culture, which in and of itself, deserves an appreciation, respect, and understanding. If people can't get beyond a "mainland-centric" world view, they will not be happy here. Folks need to be particularly sensitive to, or at least have an understanding of Native Hawaiian issues. There are many here (and though it sits just below the radar) who believe that Hawaii is a nation occupied. The 1893 overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy by a cadre of American businessmen, backed by the US military, remains a very sensitive issue to this day. The aloha spirit, which may be increasingly difficult to find as the years go by, is still very much alive, but it very much needs to be earned. The values of akahai, lokahi, `olu`olu, ha`aha`a, and ahonui all need to be demonstrated before they can be received.

However life in Hawaii does have certain advantages. The weather is generally mild year-round, the average temperature is in the low to mid 80's, water temperature in the high 70's to low 80's. We really don't have "seasons", per se. Outside of the tourist trap that Waikiki has become, there are beautiful beaches. Peace and solitude can be found just a few miles outside of the urban core on any number of hiking trails ( the occasional drone from a helicopter or plane not withstanding). We have world-class restaurants and pan-Pacific fusion cuisine. We have surfing and excellent golf (if you can afford it). When people aren't stressed out, they're generally pretty nice and of course we have the host culture. The Hawaiian people, their culture, history, language, values, music, etc. all make this place unique and truly special.

They'll need to consider all of the above and make a true assessment to see if this move is for them. If one comes here with an open mind and can get beyond the perception of Hawaii as a place of hula girls with the wiggly hips and lilting smiles, grass shacks, and coconut trees, and can come to understand, appreciate, and embrace its diversity, then I say to you, e komo mai and aloha.

Translation: They don't like people from the mainland, especially Haoles.

Translation: They don't like people from the mainland, especially Haoles.

HHmm Okay alot of stuff mentioned is pretty much accurate except for maybe your last comment...."THey"....who the heck is "they"...Everybody I know have no problems with "Haoles"...I have alot of "Haole" friends transplanted from the mainland and they all say the people here are great...Most times If any I might hear that comment come from somebody that comes from the mainland who acts as though they are better than everybody and in any case even the "haoles" up on the mainland don't like them either...So what's up with that.......HHmmmm

Translation: They don't like people from the mainland, especially Haoles.

Okay, you're the one saying this, not me.

Actually, 'haole' in the Hawaiian language means any foreigner, or thing of foreign origin and in it's ancient concept, it wasn't necessarily a term of derision.

I'm simply illustrating a few simple truths about life in Honolulu; one has to weigh all of the issues before making a momentous life decision such as moving. And it isn't simply restricted to a move to Hawaii, much of the same rings true no matter where you decide to go in the world.

It's precisely that attitude or presumption that gets people, irregardless of ethnicity, into hot water when they come here.

Okay, let's get back to talking about the Element, please.

Translation: They don't like people from the mainland, especially Haoles.

HHmmm what kind of comment is that?...Who the heck is "they" who are "they"?? I have alot of transplanted "haole" friends from the mainland and they love the people here and vice versa. The majority of the time I hear how people from the mainland love it here and how the people are so nice. I think if I ever did hear that kind of comment it came from some "haole" that came down hear and acted as though they were better than everybody here and in any case the people in the place where they came from didn't even like them..prob anyplace they go they will have people that don't like them...It's not Hawaii to blame it's the individual....hhmmm

If they do decide to move here, I recommend they buy an E so they can come on our runs. Not only will they meet some good people but they can also get the inside scoops on stuff they need.

If they do decide to move here, I recommend they buy an E so they can come on our runs. Not only will they meet some good people but they can also get the inside scoops on stuff they need.

Thanks Turbo, for keeping it lighthearted! ;-)

If they do decide to move here, I recommend they buy an E so they can come on our runs. Not only will they meet some good people but they can also get the inside scoops on stuff they need.

Hi

I have made a lot of moves over the years. I have yet to do one that involved ocean transport of all my junk. I think this would be one move that gets the "sell everything / move nothing" treatment.

Unless Fed Ex has a *very* good employie discount :D :D :D :D

Bob

Hey K-Dogg sorry those comments weren't targeting you..What you said is very accurate....cool

I think they plan on travelling pretty light when they relocate. They're in the process of trying to find a buyer for the house and they only plan on bringing one car (a truck?).

I think his contract is for only two years so I don't know if they'll just put everything in storage or try to sell it. I think they're running out of time so I guess storage is a more likely choice.

These are just hardworking middle-class people who need a nice, safe place to live and want to enjoy the scenery in their free time. I can't imagine that they will look into purchasing any property--it's just going to be out of their price range.

Thanks for all the information. The GPS idea was very good. I know I struggle when I travel for work and end up in traffic with no real sense of how to get where I need to go.

The information about the casual attire was helpful too. I'm sure they'll be happy to travel with fewer clothes.

I'm sure they'll have a few more questions so I might be back. I hope you guys don't mind the intrusion. Thanks again.

I think they plan on travelling pretty light when they relocate. They're in the process of trying to find a buyer for the house and they only plan on bringing one car (a truck?).



Hi

I would sure check the price of shipping the car both ways and / or the value of the car they have.

Bob

Do you know what FedEx office he is going to work in? A friend of mine just told me that the FedEx administrative office is in Hawaii Kai which is in East Honolulu. If that's the case, I have to restructure my recommendations. They will probably be able to find housing in Hawaii Kai or somewhere close to there and avoid all the horrendous traffic. Btw, they can always look us up and join us anyway. Always willing to help people from Missouri since I had such a great time there.

I think we overwhelmed them with things to think about. After a little consideration, they've come to realize that it's much too hard to wrap up their lives by the end of the year.

They plan to come visit again and try to spend some time getting more familiar with the Honolulu area and hope that the job becomes available again when the two year contracts expire. Hopefully they'll be a little better prepared to make such a move.

You guys are the best. My little sister thanks you because she has her neighbors back for the next few years, at least. Thanks for letting us pick your brains for information.

Hi

Sounds like a good move.

There is a whole lot more to the islands than Honolulu. They might find an area they like even better.

Bob

Just a quick thank you to you Hawaii insiders.:) You've all lent some insight to things I've never thought about concerning your state. Very enlightening.:)

I think we overwhelmed them with things to think about. After a little consideration, they've come to realize that it's much too hard to wrap up their lives by the end of the year.

They plan to come visit again and try to spend some time getting more familiar with the Honolulu area and hope that the job becomes available again when the two year contracts expire. Hopefully they'll be a little better prepared to make such a move.

You guys are the best. My little sister thanks you because she has her neighbors back for the next few years, at least. Thanks for letting us pick your brains for information.
Anytime. Have them contact one of us next time they come over and hopefully we can answer a lot more of their questions. Btw, my son-in-law's parents did the same thing i.e. came for vacation, liked it, went back to Ohio and packed up the kids and moved. Took them a year to do it. That was over 26 years ago. They will never move back. Thanks IRV and Pa_fun for joining in the discussion.

Hi

I hope they do make the move. I think it's probably a good idea for them and that they will like it once they settle in. I just don't think that a move with two weeks to do it and no support from the company is real good deal.

Good luck to them !!!

Bob

you know you guys from Hawaii, are great i never been to the islands but if i do i will be checkin with you . ya wanna come to P.A good and cold soon maybe 15-25 degrees soon ..:D
ohhh and the guy from denver air is thin there noth said...:razz:

Thanks Dave. Don't forget to bring your E if you come. Btw, we have the same occupation.

i like you Turtle, you're into guns wanna buy some?....8)

i like you Turtle, you're into guns wanna buy some?....8)

Hi

Tough to find range time out on most of the islands ....

Bob

ehhh shoot cconuts ??:D

i like you Turtle, you're into guns wanna buy some?....8)
PM me and let me know what you got. Lot of guys at the range would be interested too. I'm at the range every week although we talk more about photography and computers than guns most of the time. But shooting is a good way to get stress out. I mainly shoot trap and metallic silhouette but my friends shoot everything.
I retired awhile ago but they called me back on contract as PM to install a major computer system which I did for 4 years (it's a 10 year project). But it got to the point where I wanted to do something else rather than just fight the same old BS and politics like before I retired. So now I just do part time work from my business and life is great.

Turbo, sorry i cant sell to ya somethin bout ya laws there tooooo much paperwork for my bud's at their gun shop
but for sale anyway
thompson tommie gun full auto
m-16 full auto
barrett 50 cal -2 of them
oh 285 rifles
350 pistols
i'll get ya a web site

Too bad. Thanks anyway. We know a lot of FFLs on this side who can bring them in. Not too interested in the full autos anyway. Shot a lot of them in the Army and got it out of my system. The Barrett is not allowed at the Range anymore. I've been trying to pare my collection down since I end up shooting the same guns every week depending upon what I had a chance to reload.
How often do you go shooting? Must be cold at your ranges now.

Hi

It's been cool, but still no real nead for a jacket down here. 50's most of the week. That's the southern end of PA.

Of course the ranges are state supported and free of charge, so putting up with a little chill from time to time is a lot easier....

Bob

Turtle, i shoot usually 2 times a week what ya lookin for?

Hi
It's been cool, but still no real nead for a jacket down here. 50's most of the week. That's the southern end of PA.

50's and no jacket!!!!!!!!!! It's 70 here and everyone is shivering in the cold!
The range here in Honolulu is City supported and except for the target rifle and target pistol, each club runs it's own range and charges a small fee for use.

Turtle, i shoot usually 2 times a week what ya lookin for?
Nothing actually. I can get everything I need here. When I registered my last pistol, the lady at the police department convinced me into getting my long gun permit renewed at the same time (you need to renew every year). I called her a bad influence but got it anyway then hid it in case I found something during the year.

I'll try and take a pic of our range tomorrow when I go there.

70's well its usually around 20-30 here but we are having a heat wave around 45-50 we are goin to pay for this i think ...:D

70's well its usually around 20-30 here but we are having a heat wave around 45-50 we are goin to pay for this i think ...:D

Hi

I was breaking out the SPF 30 today. I think it got over 60 ...

Bob

Here's some pics of our range. The first shot is my E across the street from the entrance. Then a full view of the range. Next is our metallic silhouette range. On the left is the targets for todays .22 crazy target fun match. On the right is the plinking targets. Then I have the skeet and Trap, Action pistol and cowboy, then finally the rifle. I didn't show the target pistol cause I didn't want to walk that far. Today the high was 81 and tonight the low is 71. Next week we have a wood cut match with 10/22's and lots of magazines.

oops. Had to resize further down. Here's the rest of the pics.

Hi

That's a very nice range. You can't beat the view at the enterance !!!

I think it's going to get into the 60's today .....

Of course it'll probably snow six feet by the end of the week.

Bob

Turbo, do you have carry permits there if so what do you carry? and cool range .

PA-FUN ya 55-60 here too but its goin to hit us i know it :D

Only the Police Chief can grant carry permits so no one knows how many there are but it's not very many if at all. Hawaii has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. I have a carry permit for Florida but because I was with the courts before I retired, I never had a chance to use it since I was always at courthouses when I went there and they don't allow weapons inside.
My recommendation for a carry gun would be the glock 27 40 cal. It's small enough not to be obtrusive, easy to maintain and pretty accurate for it's size. Our environment here is a little different than the mainland since violent crime is pretty low although property crime is pretty high. Also, the standard dress code is shorts and t-shirts on the weekends and aloha shirts and slacks for business so there's no jacket to hide your weapon. The Swat guys here swear by Sigs and I have a couple of them but I still like glocks for their ease of maintenance. The ultimate, of course, is a .45 but it's large and heavy although someone showed me their new STI with with polymer bottom this weekend and it sure was nice.
55-60 in PA at this time of year -- man, I think global warming is here already.

For anyone thinking of relocating to Honolulu, here's an article in this mornings paper that we have the highest rents in the nation.
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061218/NEWS01/612180355

For anyone thinking of relocating to Honolulu, here's an article in this mornings paper that we have the highest rents in the nation.


Hi

Something to think about when that job offer comes in ....

Bob

We're at full employment so finding a job is not a problem but if you're retired, who wants to go back to work?
btw, what do you guys shoot? Is there a carry law in PA? Is it reciprocal with other states?

Hi

Carry in PA is an amazing thing. They have what's called a "must issue" law. You walk in and fill out the paperwork. They either must show a reason why you can't get a CCW permit or issue it. I have never lived anywhere that had a law like this. It's so easy to get that most states don't recognize it. If you want one that you can use outside PA you get a Florida permit.

I shoot just about anything I can get my hands on. More pistol and rifle than shotgun these days. I probably have as much money in the 1911 collection as I do in my E ....

Bob

Hi
Carry in PA is an amazing thing. They have what's called a "must issue" law. You walk in and fill out the paperwork. They either must show a reason why you can't get a CCW permit or issue it. I have never lived anywhere that had a law like this. It's so easy to get that most states don't recognize it. If you want one that you can use outside PA you get a Florida permit.

I shoot just about anything I can get my hands on. More pistol and rifle than shotgun these days. I probably have as much money in the 1911 collection as I do in my E ....
Bob
Don't we all.
I started acquiring handbuilt 1911s before technology overtook the craftsmen. But with the new ones coming out. the old comp guns and model 70s seem really obsolete. However, since I notice that I miss just as much with the new ones, I stick to my old stainless springfield 1911 for most of my 45 shooting. I shoot glocks more only because they're easier and faster to clean. -- getting old and lazy.

Hi

After a few 10's of thousands of rounds somehow a 1911 just feels "right". I shoot Glocks from time to time, but they don't seem to fit the hand quite the same way.

Do pistols need to be cleaned? :D :D :D :D

Bob

Hi
After a few 10's of thousands of rounds somehow a 1911 just feels "right". I shoot Glocks from time to time, but they don't seem to fit the hand quite the same way.
Do pistols need to be cleaned? :D :D :D :D
Bob
I know exactly what you mean. There is nothing like a 1911. After all these years, it's still hard to come home after shooting and not clean my guns. I can still hear my drill sergeant yelling at me.

I know exactly what you mean. There is nothing like a 1911. After all these years, it's still hard to come home after shooting and not clean my guns. I can still hear my drill sergeant yelling at me.

Hi

Spray cleaners are a *wonderfull* thing.

Bob

ok P.A, and Turtle , i beleve it is 13 or 16 states will let our carry permits be used now the country of N.J. is not one of them.:rolleyes: towards guns
ummm,carry commander 45 serius 70 , 2 kimbers,(45) ,1 45 govt. nickel serius 80,beretta 92 ,walther 380cal,kel-tec 32,22 cal freedom,damn take too long 35 handguns , 15 long guns, misc knifes and other stuff

Hi

I think we are converting this into an outpost of m1911.org .... :D

Bob

ummm P.A. ya still lookin for 1911 shoot me a P.M there might be some floatin around the shop