i'm trying to decide on the best delivery system for MP3's in my new Element EX.

also, stupid question: do you connect the headphones out to the aux in? or do you need a line out from the MP3 device?

sorry to rehash this, i've done searches with minimal results.

THANKS A MILLION IN ADVANCE!


choices?

1. cd player with mp3 capability

2. dedicated non-cd mp3 player

3. PDA with audio

others?


fred

[quote:07c5b325e7="fhodshon"]
1. cd player with mp3 capability

2. dedicated non-cd mp3 player

3. PDA with audio
[/quote:07c5b325e7]

Now that I've actually had my E for all of 36 hours, I feel compelled to post more. :)

I think that 1 is probably the best choice...it's what I had before I got the E. However, I want to keep the stock stereo for awhile, because one of the things I got sick of was my old car getting broken into all the time for the stereo. (removable faceplate doesn't help...they'll break in to see if you hid the faceplate in your glove compartment...still messes up your locks, doors, and peace of mind) So, I'll probably get a new head unit one day, but not yet.

3 doesn't really do it for me, because the amount of storage in most PDAs isn't that great. You can certainly stock up a PDA with a bunch of flash memory, but it's not cheap, and just doesn't seem to be the best.

I'm going (temporarily) with 2. I currently have a rio Volt which is a portable CD-mp3 player. It'll do for now. If you've got much music, I'd go for a hard drive-based player (as I will be doing when I recover from buying the E) like the iPod (beautiful, user friendly, functional, $$$$$) or the Nomad Zen (less beautiful, less user-friendly, functional, $$$) or the Nomad Jukebox 3 (even less beautiful, less user-friendly, possibly more functional, $$). I'll be getting the cheap jukebox 3, 'cause I personally care more about the price than the beauty. The iPod is a beaut though....

PDA.

Well, I have to go with #2. Sorry that makes it one each.

I will however predicate that with a hard drive unit. A memory (card) based unit is fine for running or something, but a hard drive unit is what you want for car / personal use.

I would buy an iPod. They are much pricer then the others, but I really like there features and size. You can get a 20 GB unit for under $200 these days (non iPod).

You just connect the headphone output to the AUX and you are good to go. Make sure the controls are easy to get to. Think about changing music while you are driving. Make sure there are playlist etc.

mp3 CD players are ok, but it will get annoying. Better to just get a new head unit that plays mp3 CD's. I have had my kenwood head unit for over 2 years now (close to 3). and it is great. I just want something that would hold my entire music library.

check out the kenwood music keg too. probably not what you want, but worth the look see anyway.

Another #2 vote, but make sure it is hard-disk based and I really very strongly endorse the iPod. Much like the Element itself, it delivers not only the black and white goods, it creates a sense of joy and wonder and that x-factor that comes along only once in a great while. To get the Element and the 30G iPod together is just amazing; a truly fine combination of utility, design and grace.

I use my PDA but will probably get a dedicated non-cd mp3 player because it is smaller then a cd player...

wow, sounds like that guy works for ipod and honda. lol

I use an Archos 20 Jukebox Recorder - 20 gig hard drive - in my Element. In some ways it is a bit more versatile than the ipod and about half the price. I love it. Besides being a MP3 player one thing you can do is rercord with it. Like I can record my radio show (on a local radio station sunday nights) and listen to it during the week - because it beats most anything else on the radio.

There was a thread about MP3 Players a while back and some person named "pookster" influenced me towards the Archos.

Thom Wodock
Sergeantsville NJ

iPod. Hands down. Without question.

....at least in my opinion.

The iPod is a pretty tight unit but it's hard to ignore this super cool Archos unit - especially if you've got the coin to pay iPod prices anyway. You get SO much more than an iPod, plus a full color screen, MPEG4 video recording and playback, still picture and video cam attachments, it can act as an FM radio, record television shows, and you can even read memory cards and use the hard drive as a USB attachable data storage device for regular files!

http://www.archos.com/img/products/290x230/av_320.en.jpghttp://www.archos.com/img/products/171x90/avcam300.pnghttp://www.archos.com/img/products/171x90/jbm_smartmedia.pnghttp://www.archos.com/img/products/171x90/jbm_vm.png

Again, I do like the iPod, but IMHO Archos is kicking Apple's @$$ with the AV300 series. 8)

iPod. Fantastic blending of form and function. Very few drawbacks except it cannot play Ogg Vorbis, MPC, and WMA files.

I have a 20GB iPod - upgraded form the original 5GB model that went with me to the desert - so you can kind of guess what I'd recommend ;)

The Creative Zen is cheaper and holds as much, so if you're low on cash consider that. It's USB 2.0 (I think) vs Firewire on the iPod.

If you already have a PDA with stereo output and MP3 playing capabilities AND a SD/CF slot, then use that for a while.

The Archos unit is cheaper than the Zen or iPod, and would work well also. It's all a matter of personal preference/taste and budget :)

I use a Sony mp3-capable portable cd-player. I'm now trying to decide which style of mount I want to install.

I'm going to look around locally, but if I can't find anything, I'll be ordering one of these http://www.arkon.com/cd.html.

I'd like to have one of the goosenecks, but it says it bolts to a passenger seat bolt and looking at the E seat, it seems there's a plastic shroud that might get in the way.

I think the little 6" one might work, but I'm concerned the sticky tape might not be strong enough, and I'm not sure I want to put screws into the dash plastic.

If any of you have any other ideas, let me know.

eKennedy

[quote:ed3ac9f09d="eKennedy"]I'm going to look around locally, but if I can't find anything, I'll be ordering one of these http://www.arkon.com/cd.html.[/quote:ed3ac9f09d]

You might want to check this out http://shop.store.yahoo.com/xmfanstore/prul.html

I have two, one for the Delphi SkyFi, the other one is for the iPod.

[quote:df76c2f3e4="eMass"]Again, I do like the iPod, but IMHO Archos is kicking Apple's @$$ with the AV300 series. 8)[/quote:df76c2f3e4]

That Archos unit is very cool with all of the different ways you can use it, kind of an all-around media appliance Swiss Army knife thang.

I'm not so sure that the AV300 device should really be considered a peer of the iPod tho. The iPod is pretty much dedicated to music and doing a great job on music. This is the reason I am so infatuated with it is that it is so tightly integrated with iTunes on the Mac. I think I might be less enthusiastic if I was forced to use the Windows software with it.

As well, Archos is a little more bleeding edge that Apple wants to be. I think it's cool that there is a lot of competition in this area, which should result in continued innovation.

I am seeing an element with an apple sticker on it and a bumper sticker that says "rage against the dominant paradigm".

I use the Creative Labs Nomad 20GB Jukebox. I don't need it to be really small to carry on my person and the Nomad is more affordable than many MP3 units with that amount of storage. I have my entire CD collection on it (hundreds and of CDs) so I never have to decide what music to take with me on trips. I am happy with it.
http://www.nomadworld.com/products/

I am still in the E-Lust stage (haven't yet convinced my better half how cool the E is) but when I took a test drive in a GGM AWD 5spd Element, I took along my trusty Powerbook G4 Ti and an audio adapter cable. I proceeded to experiment with the combo of the E's nice sound system and my iTunes-loaded PB Ti. It was wonderful! iTunes' built-in Equalizer worked really well with the E's system, too. I was sort of afraid that the PB Ti's unamplified audio out might be too weak a signal to be useful in the E. I was wrong.
The salesman (A friend) and I were blown away!
I'm an Apple fan, so I also lust after an iPod, but the huge capability and flexability that is available in a good laptop would seem to be a perfect fit for the Element owner-on-the- go. My PB Ti can play DVD movies, connect to the internet, edit audio and video, play CDs of std. audio formats or MP3s, MPEG-4s, etc. or many other formats. I can do word processing, or burn CDs/DVDs. I can store 40GBs worth of audio or video or game content on a pocket firewire drive (or iPod)and play thru the PB Ti into the Element's audio system. I could even get a large flat sreen LCD monitor and have a my own drive-in/up theatre, sort of ala Studio-E. The possibilities for multimedia E-fun are mind boggling!
What has my pea-brain spinning is coming up with a cool way of mounting or securing the laptop in the E so it yields the most usability, but is still removable for mobility/security purposes.
By the way, the test drive was great. The E won my heart and mind immediately!
Just my E-less :cry: 2 cents worth.

Laptop mounting hardware is available. Travelling salesmen mostly use them. I've seen them but I'm not sure where you get them. A Google search would probably turn something up.

I've used this company in the past - pricey stuff but good quality. Hottie not included...

http://www.yourmobiledesk.com/images/productImages/ACFA621.gifhttp://www.yourmobiledesk.com/images/additionalInfoImages/234tr.gifhttp://www.yourmobiledesk.com/images/additionalInfoImages/100tr.gif

Check out the details here: http://www.yourmobiledesk.com/products/proddetail.cfm?prodID=3375&catID=111&subcatID=522&sscatID=na&mfrID=116

I'm REALLY happy with my iRiver MP3 player.... it can hold 8 hours of music (bout 75 songs) and it's small... good sound when hooked up to my EX through the AUX jack so i would recomend it to anyone! PS: I got mine at Best Buy

Rio is coming out with several new dedicated MP3 (et.al.) players. They have a very slim 1.5GB unit that is not harddrive based. These were just annouced this week.

I'm torn myself as well. Generally speaking, having a 30GB iPod would rock, just because you wouldn't have to constantly reload it with new material. That said, I think I'm just gonna buy a large capacity flash card for my iPaq in the interim.

iPod, and other similar devices:
* PRO: lots of selection on the market now, full featured, long battery life
* CON: ones with good capacity (10+ GB) are expensive; products are all so new it makes me question reliability

Discman that plays MP3s
* PRO: Cost, they are plentiful and relatively cheap and reliable. CD-Rs are cheap memory
* CON: Have to burn CD-Rs from MP3 library (Serious PITA). Not all that cool. Might as well buy a new MP3 playing headunit. CDs are huge compared to flash memory.

PDA
* PRO: Loads of non-media related features, may come in handy if your into that already. Simply requires more flash memory.
* CON: Just as pricey as an iPod (depending on the model), without the storage capacity or battery life. Extra features may go unused.

Nice post PSM - thanks for the breakdown.

Do you have a link for the new SonicBlue Rio's by any chance?

Nice breakdown, PSM, and I agree in general, but since I seem to be the big iPod cheerleader on this thread, I will make a couple of comments. Please note that my enthusiasm for the iPod is basically the same enthusiasm that I have for the Element. It's not perfect and I know that, but it is close to perfection for me and it delights me everytime I use it, just like the element.

As to reliability, the current iPod model is third generation which means that it is a mature product. There is lots of info available in forums and elsewhere that will give you very granular insight into the good bad and ugly of the iPod.

As to additional features, the iPod comes standard with some games and the ability to sync up calendar and contact information and to be used as a general purpose mass storage device. I would not consider it a PDA by any means, since you cannot enter new contact or calendar info, but it is not limited to music. As noted, the Archos devices have a broader media usability, some record, some do video and they can be mass storage devices as well.

Thanks, I was only being very general about the iPod-esque category. Obviously all these new gizmos vary quite a bit and deserve individual research

http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/item_main_Rio.asp?model=219&cat=53

The Nitrus model in particular attracts my attention. I believe it either uses an IBM microdrive or just a huge amount of flash.

Personally, I bought an iPaq 3630 years ago, and will likely just buy a another huge memory card for it (the old one migrated to our digital camera). I'll also need to dig up a DC adapter and patch cable.

I personally recommend the ipod. I've got the original 5giger. Talk about no nonsense fabulous device. And on long trips -- like to visit my parents, I go to audible.com and buy mp3 audio books, one for each direction. Makes the time fly ;)

I'd like to double my vote for the iPod. We just got our Element last Friday. A few days before that we sold our old 10 gig iPod and we're using a new 30 gig model now. With over 3800 songs on it right now (and room for 7500 total), I don't see how we'll need another device for music for a very long time.

As for the point that was brought up regarding other devices having other features besides just handling MP3s, well, that's just comparing Apples and....well, you know [pun intended].

I have a Pioneer CD/MP3 XM ready system. I really like having everything in one place. Plus with the price of CDR's (10 cents) I just burn 100 songs off and when I get sick of them I throw them in a box or the circular file. I don't really see the value in the Ipod's or other portable Mp3 players with the massive amounts that can be stored on them :?: I can take my cd's with me too :wink:

Another owner of a 5 gig iPod here... so definetely voting for the Apple invention. Long battery life and 5 gig is big enough for me. The iPod fits right in the holders on the passenger side. I would recommend getting the remote control for the iPod though so you can just leave the ipod on the passenger side and use the remote control to navigate through the thousands of songs.. much safer! :wink:

I don't know what the big deal is with ipods :evil: :x ! Man I hate those things! Over rated over priced pieces of crap! I have a friend who wanted one soo bad he bought it and has been nothing but disappointed since! I'm a bit of an audiophile and let me tell you the sound quality on that thing sucks like cheap *****! I own a Creative Muvo. I use DJ headphones with them. The sound quality off of that little thing is better than the ipod any day and my friend agrees! The only things that it has going for it in my opinion is storage space and it's "cute" to look at. Personally I prefer flash players for portable devices with good quality headphones over hard drive units (less parts to damage), I am waiting for sony to make a "true" minidisc mp3 player. That will be the end all of mp3 players! Until then I will use one of my spare laptops for mp3's and dvd's in my E.

Just like on many of the other threads here, there is no "correct" answer to the original question posed, so keeping that concept in mind, here's my two cents worth. I love my iPod. Those who complain of it's deficient audio quality are true purists who can apparently also dectect an audible fruitfly fart from a block away. Thank goodness MY ears are no longer that sensitive! I don't have/need/want a PDA or a laptop computer, so that alone, certainly colors what's "good for me". I will admit, though, that I was impressed with my son's recent purchase of a Sony mp3 disc player. I have over 3000 songs on my iPod, and in the absence of a regular copilot, if I dont create playlists, it often takes too long to choose what I want to hear on anything but longer drives. My son's generation doesn't seem to consider time spent burning cd's "time wasted", as I might. It may be easier to swap mp3 cd's with "themes" than it is to search on my iPod for what I "generally" want to hear on any given trip to work or the grocery store. I will say in the iPod's favor though, that I never have to wonder which music I didn't bring with me because it's ALL with me, ALL the time.

But just like with any other product brands, there are fans of Apple products and there are detractors here. And it's all OK. This may not sound typical of me, but gosh, there are all kinds of solutions out there that will work for each of us. No need for any of us to go cramming our own best solutions down everyone else's throats! What I find just the tiniest bit interesting is, the mere inclusion of the 1/8th inch input jack on the Honda Element is the source of all the heated debate going on. (I still consider my Element the "mobile" accessory for my iPod", but do not expect anyone else to feel the same way.)

Sorry to be so ignorant, but do I have to have a Mac computer to download stuff to an IPod? I'm especially interested in audible.com for books.
(I'm a PC-based computer user, presently making my own mix CDs for the car from my CDs at home.)
Thanks for information... I'm really clueless here. :oops:

Apple Computer does make iPODs for Windows as well and they just introduced iTunes for Windows. Make sure you get the latest PC model which will allow you to download over 5000 audible books and I believe it is compatible with Audible books as well.

http://www.apple.com/itunes/

http://www.audible.com/iPod/FAQ.html

Thanks, Jimxenus!
Very helpful links -- I appreciate it.

Can anybody tell me where to get the adapter to hook my mp3 player to my MP3/Digital Media Auxiliary Jack? I have look and can only find a adapter with a cassette and that isnt going to work. So if anybody knows let me know. Thankyou!

You only need a cable with a male 1/8in stereo jack on each end. $5.00 to $15.00, depending on how much you want to spend. Any Radio Shack or major electronics store.

PC Magazine just reported that within a few months there will be major competitive offerings to the iPod from lots of consumer electronics companies-----ones that realize they missed the wave since 1 million iPods have now sold. In particular, they say Sony will have a unit with the same memory as the iPods for half the price for each class of memory.

Note there's nothing unique technically about the iPod . . . the hardrive is from Toshiba, for example.

I bought my wife a 10Gig iPod last year and we've had some problems with it locking up if you move it (she doesn't run with it anymore, but it's fine for me on international flights for business). I like it, but it does have this issue.

I was asking her for an iPod for Xmas (I love to be surprised :? ), but I've told her to hold off until the next wave of them in Feb/March.

I'm a PDA man myself - I've got an iPAQ 3850 with the CF expansion pack plus, a 256 mb SD card for my programs and such and a 1 GB CF card for my music. It's mounted perfectly(almost) to the vent with the travel mount from http://www.iproductsonline.com and I got a Radioshack Digitraveler GPS for $30 (closeout at some stores and on ebay, be warned, the included software is crap so I dropped another $99 for the fantastic iGuidance suite). I cobbled together a cable that would charge both the iPAQ and Digitraveler and connect the iPAQ to the GPS and have them powered via a 12-V plug that I installed in the center console!
So now I have a talking GPS that is plugged into my AUX jack, can listen to tunes on WMP and the software automatically turns the music down a little when it announces directions! One of the best things about the PockePC is it's integration with WinXP so you can easily transfer playlists and set the bitrate on your songs to save space. You can also get Plus! Media Edition that allows you to set channels to download like NPR, CNBC news, KenRadio and a few others for mobile content.
Also, I can slip in my bluetooth CF card and get on the internet at about 50Kbs through my SonyEricsson t610.
For those of you who are thinking about a PPC to be used for these kinds of things, I think that the iPAQ 2215 has the most bang for the buck - it's small, has built-in bluetooth (no swapping of cards like me) and has both SD and CF slots for plenty of memory and peripherals and you can get one for only $350 - $400, plus $50 for a 256 card or $150-$200 for a 1 GB CF card. VERY functional and kinda fun!
Good Luck!

Personally I think the Ipod is overrated. The cost performance ratio just doesn't compare to new models on the market. It's the highest $/mb ratio on the market. The battery life is horrible. I'd use a kinder word,but it's notorious to getting nowhere close to it's claimed 8hrs. And their support on the battery issue was downright criminal until it was brought to the public's attention. And the sound quality isn't up to par with other models out there. The few that I've toyed with tended to distort the lower frequencies a bit. Not saying that it isn't good, but when a unique product hits the market with an advertising budget that is greater than all of it's competition combined, there's not much you can do stifle the appeal. The Rio Karma 20gb is about the most unique of the hd units. An interesting form factor, short and stubby instead of long and thin (actually a better fit for the shelf on the E). The user interface is amazingly simple and intuitive and definitely rivals the Ipod. The Rio DJ feature is amazing. Sound quality puts it at the top of the list and has been rated tops in many reviews. The parametric eq can be customized within each of it's 5 bands as well as the basic adjustments. And the black and gray just compliments the E's interior. It can also be had for under $300 delivered as well.
http://www.riovolution.com/images/devices/gallery/leppert-01.jpg

I second the Karma. The software team is the old Empeg software team, so when it comes to UI and sound quality, it's got everything beat.

Plus, 100mbit ethernet. Just wait to you see what later firmware upgrades will provide using that feature...

-brendan

With 20 gigs I can take long trips and never hear the same song twice. It is usb2 so the transfers are quick, it fits on the shelf under the aux input, normally I get a week out of the rechargeable batteries or I can connect it to the power connector. It goes in my pocket every morning at the gym with headphones.

Biggest complaint! I can't find the aux connection cable I want. This I see as a problem with all the devices. I have a cable that is about 8 inches long, work great and is short enought that it looks neat. The problem is I have to lean over to see the display because of the short cable. The cable that radio shack and others sell are six feet long. Way to much cable to mess with and look neat. To me just tying the extra cable up is not an option. What I want is a coiled cable, much like a phone headset cable. Total extended length about 24 inches. Of course a much lighter wire than the phone headset cable.
Searches on the internet have turned up nothing. I have not even been able to locate the coiled wire to add my own connectors to.

Open to suggestions...

Archos rocks!

I use my laptop computer as my MP3 player. Since I also use my laptop for GPS and other tasks, it made sense for me to use it for audio as well.

Since my laptop has a wireless LAN card, I can update my music from the home system without even having to unhook the computer from the car.

I also use the laptop on my home stereo system. I have a 1/8" -> RCA adapter plugged into my receiver at home. Just plop the laptop down next to it and plug it in.

On another note - I also recently installed a XM Roady into my E. To be honest the XM unit has kept me entertained enough that I have not updated my music library on the laptop for almost a month now.

If you really enjoy your MP3 collection, I wouldn't dump it for XM - I'm just saying that it's a really nice supplement.

-CRC

I've got a Nomad Zen NX with 30gb of memory... I have 1000's of CD's and now I don't carry any of them anywhere. My girlfriend's 30gb iPod is smaller and has a few functions I like better than the Zen, but it also cost exactly TWICE as much for essentially the same device.

The sound quality is superb, the navigation easy, and it's really quite simple to use. I bought a $5 cord from Radio Shack, plugged it in the AUX and I was good to go.

I bought mine for $299 at Best Buy and I've had exactly ZERO problems with it. I recommend it highly.

http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?prodid=4836

Nomad ZEN NX - PROS:
Very affordable, much easier software than iTunes, backlit display, removable/replaceable battery!

Nomad ZEN NX - CONS:
Bigger than iPod, unable to play Audible.com audiobook files (unless you know how to rip them to mp3, which I do... and I recommend), and slightly clumsier navigation than iPod.

For the money, I can't ever imagine spending as much for an iPod, even if it is marginally better.

I picked up a Creative Labs Nomad Zen Xtra 40gig MP3 player about three weeks ago and love it so far. I have all of my near 200 CDs in it and it's not quite 1/4 full. The battery life is easliy 10 hours on a charge and a 12 volt adapter for the car is available for $19.99 at Best Buy. Oh, Best Buy just reduced the price of the unit to $249!!!!! Same storage as an IPOD, half the price. Put it on random and it's like having a radio station that plays only the songs I like!

I'm still using - and fairly content with - my old NexII MP3 player. Its about the size of a pager and accepts Compact Flash cards up to 1GB. I have a couple of 129MB CFs that I rotate new music through. I've got a CF reader on both home and work PCs and all of my MP3s at both locations, so its never a big chore to clear the CFs and bag something fresh. And since the NexII is very small and light, it goes with me everywhere.

A coworker got the RCA Lyra multimedia jukebox for Christmas and it is simply awesome! Its PDA-sized, has a very crisp and vibrant display, and will play both audio and video files. It has a 20GB HD inside.

I've been chomping at the bit to move up from my old Palm III to a Pocket PC PDA but I'm convinced that there's a pot o' gold about another 6 months out. What I'm waiting for - and believe is just right around the corner - is an iPaq or Axim with a Cornice or Toshiba drive inside. Then, you'd have all of the functionality of a Pocket PC and the storage capacity to also be your media library.

I'm a longtime MP3 downloader. Was downloading music via mIRC before Napster came along and used Napster like crazy until it went belly up. I've used Kazaa ever since. I have, however, become much more responsible about my habit... I buy (& rip to MP3 format) more music now than I bandit off of Kazaa. And quite a bit of what I go to Kazaa for is digital versions of music that I have (or had) on old vinyl or cassettes, so I feel like I've already paid my part for that, even if it was in a different format.

So, I've read a bit about the new for-pay services like iTunes and the new Napster and I'd be fine paying a lump sum monthly fee to download tunes legally. But from what I've hearing, all of these services distribute digital music in the WMA format. Well, if I'm paying for the music, I'm not very comfortable about there being limitations placed on what I can do with it and I've heard that the Digital Rights Management integrated in WMAs can be used to limit how many copies of the file can be made. Can anyone verify or clarify this for me?

Seems odd that WMAs are what's offered despite the fact that the MP3 format is a platform independant, universal standard...

[quote:ef9830222e=" "]Seems odd that WMAs are what's offered despite the fact that the MP3 format is a platform independant, universal standard...[/quote:ef9830222e]\
Not really, in the marketplace if you control the file standard you gain control of the market. Therefore, everyone wants to push thier own proprietary format because if they win majority market share then they can reduce compatibility with other formats in thier software products and push competitors out of the marketplace.

I like to call this the triple E approach...

Embrace
Extend
Extinguish

This is the approach Microsoft generally follows and they want control of the downloadable music segment in a major way.

I emplore all of you to stay away from using microsoft technologies for music download because of digital rights management and for that matter stay away from Apple's AAC technology and it's proprietary encoding and DRM as well.

Keep music in open format so we can make our own decisions about how many times we can listen to it or transfer it or which devices that it'll play on.

[stepping off soapbox now]

Best,
eMass

I agree with STAYING away from anything Micro$oft.

[quote:455573aeca=" "]I use an Archos 20 Jukebox Recorder - 20 gig hard drive - in my Element. In some ways it is a bit more versatile than the ipod and about half the price. I love it. Besides being a MP3 player one thing you can do is rercord with it. Like I can record my radio show (on a local radio station sunday nights) and listen to it during the week - because it beats most anything else on the radio.

There was a thread about MP3 Players a while back and some person named "pookster" influenced me towards the Archos.

Thom Wodock
Sergeantsville NJ[/quote:455573aeca]

How reliable has your Archos been? I had the 1st gen Jukebox 6000, and I had it a couple weeks before it started acting up. I had to send it in for repair and it never worked properly afterwards. Mine had really short battery life too. Do the new ones have skip protection?

I personally decided to tank it and got a 10gig Ipod for Christmas and couldn't be happier. The interface is really sweet.

[quote:fff426684d=" "]I don't know what the big deal is with ipods :evil: :x ! Man I hate those things! Over rated over priced pieces of crap! I have a friend who wanted one soo bad he bought it and has been nothing but disappointed since! I'm a bit of an audiophile and let me tell you the sound quality on that thing sucks like cheap *****! I own a Creative Muvo. I use DJ headphones with them. The sound quality off of that little thing is better than the ipod any day and my friend agrees! The only things that it has going for it in my opinion is storage space and it's "cute" to look at. Personally I prefer flash players for portable devices with good quality headphones over hard drive units (less parts to damage), I am waiting for sony to make a "true" minidisc mp3 player. That will be the end all of mp3 players! Until then I will use one of my spare laptops for mp3's and dvd's in my E.[/quote:fff426684d]

What are the advantages of a "true minidisc MP3 player"? I bought an iPod because I'd already owned an Archos harddrive MP3 player. The one I had was a piece of crap, but the Ipod is really nice. It holds plenty, it has a great interface (and I would know, I deal with it in my design projects), comes with good software. I've never really used the Creative brand, but I know that a flash memory player doesn't do it for me. I want to be able to be away from my computer at home and have thousands of songs ready to listen to. I never know what will strike my fancy. The Ipod isn't perfect though. The plastic scratches way to easily.

[quote:fef7426764="eMass"]I emplore all of you to stay away from using microsoft technologies for music download because of digital rights management and for that matter stay away from Apple's AAC technology and it's proprietary encoding and DRM as well. Keep music in open format so we can make our own decisions about how many times we can listen to it or transfer it or which devices that it'll play on.[/quote:fef7426764]

Yup, I'm with ya eMass! I've been doing PC tech support since MS-DOS 3.0 and I've seen the dominant behavior from MS that you're describing. I readily recall that .VOC files were the standard until MS decided it prefered .WAV and the rest is history, even despite the fact that Creative Labs is still a market leader.

So... is there a music download subscription service that does deal in MP3 format music rather than WMA?

[quote:c971b76712=" "]... is there a music download subscription service that does deal in MP3 format music rather than WMA?[/quote:c971b76712]

(or for that matter Apple's proprietary AAC format)

The answer is no. The only way the RIAA would allow these services to sell the music is by agreeing to build in DRM security technologies that would limit downloaded music to a number of computers or portable devices or for a number of playbacks or length of time.

The result is WMA and AAC.

Since the mp3 standard has no provisional spec for DRM security, no download service can legally distribute in mp3 format.

You CAN get around it however. iTunes for instance allows you to burn a music CD from your downloaded tracks. The resulting cd could be ripped into mp3 format and this is actually what I do myself.

There was an interesting article on this exact topic today - read it at: http://news.independent.co.uk/digital/features/story.jsp?story=487474

[quote:81ed5fe411=" "]I don't know what the big deal is with ipods :evil: :x ! Man I hate those things! Over rated over priced pieces of crap![/quote:81ed5fe411]

For the record - I love my 3rd gen 20 GB ipod. :D

[quote:09d6c1ec2d="eMass"]You CAN get around it however. iTunes for instance allows you to burn a music CD from your downloaded tracks. The resulting cd could be ripped into mp3 format and this is actually what I do myself.[/quote:09d6c1ec2d]

Well, I applaud your creativity eMass but - and please don't take this personally - that sucks! :roll:

The music's quality is already compromised to a certain degree by compressing it from raw audio format to AAC. Then once you expand the AAC file back out into raw audio, burn a CD, then re-rip to MP3 - well, that can only go to further water down the quality, right? And waste a CD. And waste a buncha time.

So a consumer tries to do right thing by paying for the digital music to download and ends up getting screwed in the process... Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't. :x

Rodaniel - eMass is giving you the legal way to do this. There is also a much easier, illegal way. And guess what, either way there is zero loss in quality. And (hint, hint) Apple just recently bought the software that you'd use to do this stuff illegally. I'm not advocating that anyone do this sort of thing illegally, but it's out there if you choose that path. My point was simply that you can load up an iPod with songs from all sorts of different original formats without any loss in sound quality. And don't let any Apple-haters tell you otherwise!

Okay, I must be dense... One hint wasn't quite enough. Do I have to be a iPod user for this to apply, Hownow?

I'd just like some way to pay for and download standard ol' MP3 files. My wife wondered if there's a converter that'll read in WMAs and spit out MP3s, but I kinda suspect that the DRM piece would prevent that. Am I right?

One alternative that I have, of course, is to simply purchase the CD and rip it to MP3. And I do quite a bit of that. But the whole thing about the peer-to-peer download apps that was so appealing to me was the ability to sample or "try before you buy" music that you might never have otherwise ventured out on a limb for.

I used to run Napster - and later Kazaa - in tandem with an IE browser pointed to Amazon.com. I'd lookup an artist I know and like on Amazon - like Mindy Abair (http://www.mindiabair.com), for example - then it'd refer me to similar artists who I knew little or nothing about. Then I'd look up MP3 from those 'new' artists and download a few tracks to get a feel. It ain't exactly easy being a jazz fan off in dusty West Texas...

What are the advantages of a "true minidisc MP3 player"? I bought an iPod because I'd already owned an Archos harddrive MP3 player. The one I had was a piece of crap, but the Ipod is really nice. It holds plenty, it has a great interface (and I would know, I deal with it in my design projects), comes with good software. I've never really used the Creative brand, but I know that a flash memory player doesn't do it for me. I want to be able to be away from my computer at home and have thousands of songs ready to listen to. I never know what will strike my fancy. The Ipod isn't perfect though. The plastic scratches way to easily.[/quote]

A true minidisc MP3 player would use the disc to store data, as that format was originally created for, remember MO disks you old mac guys? If the music is stored on the disc as data, or MP3 format data to be exact, you would be able to put as many songs on a minidisc as you can on a cdrom, roughly 650Mb. The cool thing about that is that they are very easily re-writable, protected by their little housing like a floppy disc, and the players/discs are very compact, you can have a dozen discs worth of music in a 3"x3"x3" box.

[quote:7598084a93=" "]A true minidisc MP3 player would use the disc to store data, as that format was originally created for, remember MO disks you old mac guys? If the music is stored on the disc as data, or MP3 format data to be exact, you would be able to put as many songs on a minidisc as you can on a cdrom, roughly 650Mb. The cool thing about that is that they are very easily re-writable, protected by their little housing like a floppy disc, and the players/discs are very compact, you can have a dozen discs worth of music in a 3"x3"x3" box.[/quote:7598084a93]

...except: the reason you can get a CD's worth of music on a standard mini-disc is that mini-disc uses a highly-efficient lossless compression scheme. My understanding is that a mini-disc actually stores only about 250MB of raw data, maybe less?

Sony's got a new high-density mini-disc coming out (or just out?) which stores over a gig, I believe, in the same form factor. That might be more useful for data storage. :)

-brendan

PS - I'm still sad I never got one of those 270MB MO discs for the NeXT as a souvenier.

I am about to buy an iPod. I am a Macintosh user, and I want to also use the iPod to sync my address book, calendar, . . .eliminating the need for a PDA. Will any of these other devices offer similar functions, and do they have Firewire?

I don't see how a minidisc system is better than a harddrive unit. They are getting smaller, and can hold more than ever. I'm glad that the minidiscs are reusable, because I'm a proponent of sustainability in design, but I'd prefer to just have my music right on the player.

[quote:ae7a324fb0=" "]I am about to buy an iPod. I am a Macintosh user, and I want to also use the iPod to sync my address book, calendar, . . .eliminating the need for a PDA. Will any of these other devices offer similar functions, and do they have Firewire?[/quote:ae7a324fb0]\
I'm a Windows user and even I recommend iPods! I would recommend one to you especially because you're already on a Mac.

99.999% of all other devices on the market are USB not firewire.

I would also like to point out that wile the iPod is a great music device I believe it's nowhere near the best PDA available. If you will rely on the ipod for this type of function I would not recommend it.

For converged use consider buying a Treo 600 (I have one) - it plays a small amount of MP3's, has a built in palm OS and integrated phone. It's about the closest thing to true convergence I've seen yet.

Once you go Mac...You won't go back!!!

The ipod is awesome. Easily the best piece of audio equipment I have ever owned. I'll never burn a CD again.