Hey Everyone,

I own a 2007 Element SC (Nighthawk Perl color). I've always tried to keep my cars very clean and waxed. Due to where I live, the most practical way to wash my Element is to do it by hand at a Car Wash. I should have known better, but by using the soapy brush instead of just the high-pressure water/soap mix, there are tiny scratches ALL over the car. The brush must have pieces of dirt in it.

The car is still nice and shiny and everything, but it's noticeable if you get right up close to it and examine the paint. It's slightly more noticeable on the plastic parts of the body (the quarter panels, back hatch cover, etc).

I'm wondering what the best way is to get rid of these "swirl" marks. I know I could go out and get a slightly abrasive compound of some sorts and try to buff it out. Would I need an orbital buffer, or could I do it by hand? Or...is it even worth it, given that I will inevitably have more swirl marks down the road? Should I bring it to a body shop and have them buff it out?

Any suggestions?

thanks, Justin

You can try and get some fine swirl scratch remover. If the scratches are very superficial that should work (ie. Meguiars, Mothers etc). If they aren't yes you are going to have to buff them out. I feel some of those scratches are inevitable. I have a few scratches on the surface of mine, I think only because I live in the desert and it is next to impossible to remove all the sand from the joints etc. You can only hope to minimize them but not wiping the car down without washing first, or spraying with water and not using cloths that are 100% cotten, this includes nylon stitching. Best of luck

JGuitar,
I've been detailing my cars for a while. If you have an everyday driver its damn near impossible to keep the swirl marks out permanently. You can make them less noticable though. Typically the Meguiars Cleaner wax is a VERY easy to use and affordable solution for small swirl marks. When using a random orbital buffer, I recommend foam padding rather then cotton clothes. ALWAYS do any detailing work out of the direct sunlight when the paint is cooled (this includes washing).

A random orbital will always give you more consistent results then your hands IMO.

A product line that gets the job done remarkably (but is a little pricey) is a package that Griots Garage offers (http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?L1=L1_1000&L2=L2_1004&SKU=11119). They probably have the best solutions and explanations on how to use their products compared to any other company I've found. I'm sorry for plugging them so hard, its just that I have not found a finer product on the market that gives the type of results that Griots gives. If you decide not to get the kit, I definitely recommend just picking up their detailers handbook (http://www.griotsgarage.com/search.jsp?searchtext=handbook&search.x=0&search.y=0). It inserts their product names in the details, BUT it still informs you of all the "necessary" information to detail your car the right way (even if its an everyday driver or a sunday driver).

Every time I use Griots products, I walk away surprised. Whether its an old car or a brand new one, the results are unparalleled.

Even a basic liquid wax and hand application should work easily in buffing the swirl marks out. Might take a little elbow grease, but it should work just fine.

Use some sort of scratch remover

The only way I've been able to reduce swirl on a painted/cc finish is to use wax, and apply/remove it in a straight line, front-to-back direction only, no circular motions.

A friend of mine used a clay bar on his (several years old, pre-owned) car and saw dramatic reduction in swirls... his car looks great!

Can't vouch for the clay bar directly, but if I ever see lines/swirls I'll be headed out to buy a clay bar... :-)

Good luck!

I second Griots..it is good stuff.

You could always call it the "swirl-finish" mod and show it off instead of trying to get rid of it. Before you know it, it'll be up there with the Home Depot gutter guard!

Griots must have released a new product in the past few months that sounds like its a perfect solution for your need. Check out the one step sealant. (http://www.griotsgarage.com/search.jsp?searchtext=11075&search.x=0&search.y=0)

I have actually done this on not only my car, but also a friend's TSX (the paint was very badly marred for an ?'03? [we both have black cars]) with AMAZING success. If you click here (http://www.lazaino.com/ApplyZaino.htm), there is a good explanation of the exact method that I use. Make sure you use the clay bar in the single direction explained (no swirls like the karate kid). You don't need to use Zaino, but I would HIGHLY recommend it. The clay bar is essential for actually removing/minimizing the swirl marks (it actually smoothes the paint - think of it as sanding on a much finer scale), not just covering them up. Otherwise, they will just be back in a month or two with wax alone. Also, to alleviate some of your worries that I hear brewing, unless you drop the clay bar or continuously rub the bar in one place for 5 minutes straight, you won't damage your paint. Just keep it lubricated by spraying the surface with soap and water, and you will be fine - it is really easy. You will be very suprised at how nice your paint feels when you are done.

You also need to to make sure you wash and dry your car with clean non abrasive mits/towels -- this is KEY to keeping your car looking good. It may sound crazy (swirl marks drive me nuts), but I use 3 buckets and 3 ?lambs wool? mits - 1 strictly for the wheels and bottom areas, 1 for the upper half of the E (usually much less dirty), and 1 for the lower half (which I thoroughly rinse several times while washing each panel). The towels that I use to dry are all microfiber with the tags cut off. **None of this is very expensive, and it doesn't really make the car washing process any longer, just more thought involved and with a much better result. If you don't thoroughly rinse your mits frequently or use the same mit all over your car (especially if it is a dark car, or even black) you will noticeably be dragging the same dirt all over and keep marring (creating minor scratches/swirl marks) your paint more and more. Lastly, while electric buffers can be a great tool, they can also be your worst enemy if you don't know how to properly polish with one, making your swirl marks deeper and PERMANENT. Stick with waxes that you can do by hand. Cleaner waxes are good and work much like a clay bar does. However, I have found, for the little extra effort, a clay bar goes a lot father.

I wish I had taken pictures of my friends car to show you her results, as they were actually amazing, but you can see some of my before pictures here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7740840@N08/sets/72157601928317928/) and after results here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7740840@N08/sets/72157601910590753/). You can see some of the lackluster sheen and swirl marks where the flash hit in the before pictures (the hood was worst) - the paint gave a good reflection, but didn't have a nice wet, swirl-free shine like in the after pics. I use Zaino's Z7 wash, ZFX Accelerator (because I am impatient - makes the wax dry faster), Z5 wax for Dark colored cars and swirl marks, and Z2 wax (really makes it shine). Don't let the prices mislead you, as one of their tiny 2oz bottles to mix the ZFX and your choice wax in will do 3 coats on your entire E! A little really does go a long way with this stuff. Just keep your bottles in a cool place between use and they will last you.

Anyway, I used to detail cars for dealerships and was in very high demand because of my results when I was younger. If you need any helps or other tips, feel free to ask.

ESquare

i ttoally agree mate swirl marks drives me nutssssssssss but check this out

Oh yeah... I can do that too.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1371/1342926361_138660f45b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1239/1342926187_ce41c9d253.jpg
ESquare

The clay bar is essential for actually removing/minimizing the swirl marks (it actually smoothes the paint - think of it as sanding on a much finer scale), not just covering them up.which I thoroughly rinse several times while washing each panel).
ESquare

ESquare; don't want to get into an arguement with you, but clay barring will not remove swirls. Clay barring will only remove paint contaminents, such as bugs, tar, and overspray. To remove swirls use a polish or to hide the swirls use a glaze. Go to http://www.autopia.org/ to learn anything about car detailing. :)

I need to back up ESquare on this to a degree. I used clay bar on my Element and Noticed that it did take some of the swirl marks away. I know that a paint cleaner and Cleaner Wax is what really takes the swirls out but in my experience a clay bar does decrease the number of swirl marks.

The Meguiars Cleaner wax is a good product to start with. Just try what you feel comfortable with and use that to start the process. I will be a process to get the Element looking like you want.

*No arguments*

Clay barring is specifically designed to remove the outer layer of contaminants left behind by outside elements. However, to do this, you are essentially wet sanding your paint (on a very fine scale) - thus, removing the upper most layer left by everything outside. Swirl marks are actually very very tiny scratches called marring. By clay barring you are essentially wet sanding over these tiny scratches and smoothing the surface of the paint (very lightly, but none-the-less you are). Clay is very soft and maluable, proving much safer to clear coats and the underlying color than sanding or rubbing/polishing compound. However, anyone who has done a once over clay barring (using the proper methods) of their car can attest to smoothing over many of the "swirl marks" and reduction of their appearance. There are a number of articles written on the physics of clay barring, polishing, and waxing that give examples of how to tell if your "swirl marks" are repairable (if you can only see the reflection of the marring in bright sunlight, and if you can actually feel the scratches by running your nail over them), and how they can be reduced, etc. Again, since the lubricated clay is very minimally abrasive, it only removes microscopic layers at a time, but truth be told, it is removing tiny layers of paint too. Marring are only microscopic scratches, hence the reason that you only see the refraction of light and (typically) can't feel the scratches. Also, wax does not actually remove any form of marring -- it simply hides it, temporarily. As the link that I posted states, the clay barring more prepares the paint's surface by removing any buildup, wax, debris, minor blemish marks, etc. from the paint before you seal it with wax, but the clay bar is also stated to "help remove surface imperfections". How else would you propose that it removes contaminants? or even removes them without even touching or affecting the paint?

The only way to really (for the most part) get rid of "swirl marks" is to polish them out - provided they are not too deep, thus not fixable without damaging the paint. However, as I mentioned, polishing such as that should be left to a professional. For a do it yourself solution (which I no longer detail cars for money and now use this method) I would recommend doing it by hand and using a clay bar to reduce the outward signs of marring and help eliminate other surface imperfections -- as I would not attest to it removing "swirl marks" like magic, please do not take it that way. It is a tool to help reduce their appearance, as I was trying to help do for the original thread creator.

It is fine if you do not want to believe in the physics of what a clay bar is doing, but you can't deny the results -- especially after a clay barring and a good wax. Give it a shot, you would be surprised.

ESquare

i'm not sure if the original posters issue has been resolved BUT....

if your swirl marks go deeper and beyond the help of the claybar, you might want to consider a very light(not aggressive) buffing compount on a soft disk to work those swirls out of the clear coat :)

What i do is wash the car with a microfiber towel or microfiber mitt, washing from the top down. Then drying with a microfiber towel, drying from the top down. THen i apply a 3M Hand Glaze, (apply, then buff with a microfiber towel), then i apply a good wax, i use Mequires gold class wax. I notice a good shine, and reduced swirl marks.

Good luck.

They're there to stay, unfortunately. There are things you can do to mask them if they are very fine, but you can definitely avoid getting more in the future.

1. Get a sheepskin car wash mitt.
2. Don't wash in a circular motion.
3. Use a rinse bucket to avoid adding corrosive particles to the soap.

I've used a clay bar on my Element. This won't take out swirls, but it will shear off particles embedded in your paint that will eventually cause more swirl marks. After you use a clay bar, put a couple coats of wax on your car... then once a week you can spray it off with just water from a do-it-yourself car wash to keep it clean. But once every few weeks you need to wash it using a sheepskin mitt rubbing in a straight line in one direction rinsing the dirt off in a separate bucket as you go. I use Mr. Clean auto dry car cleaning system to avoid touch drying. But you need to make sure you aren't using dish washing liquid because that will strip the wax, which helps protect your paint.

Sorry for rambling, but I've got a major pet peeve with swirl marks. I see cars on occasion that look like they were washed with steel wool, and it breaks my heart because I know that a well-meaning owner did that to his own car.

We cause swirl marks.

The less you rub your cars paint the better. Occasionally it is unavoidable, though. The best way to minimize damage while rubbing your paint is to use a clean/rinsed sheepskin mitt or sea sponge. Keep it waxed. And touch at your own risk.

wow there is a lot of misinformation going on here.
claying doesn't remove swirls in the clear coat only contaminates stuck in the paint.

only procedure to remove the swirls is to machine polish (pc, cyclo, flex, rotary) to remove a very small amount of clear coat in the soft honda finish.
A stong wash and full clay routine should be done prior to machine polishing. Anyone that has the arms and time to fully remove swirls by hand is better or crazier than me. Many polishes just temporarily fill the swirls until the next wash.

only way keep/minimize swirls from coming back iso use a quality wax and a proper wash routine using a soft/clean sheepskin mitt or MF mitt.

wow there is a lot of misinformation going on here.
claying doesn't remove swirls in the clear coat only contaminates stuck in the paint.

.

Thanks PT 91:-D See my above post #13

I have specifically stated that in no way does clay barring magically get rid of swirl marks, but rather rids the surface of built-up contaminants as well as helps smooth fine scratches. As I have also stated, the only way that I know to remove swirls completely is to polish them out (which I HIGHLY discourage for anyone who does not know what they are doing -- even shops that you don't know their reputation, as an untrained professional can inadvertently make it worse). Regardless of our disagreement of whether the claybar touches the paint, we can all agree that it is an essential step (along with proper washing and a good waxing) for the common John/Jane to begin reducing the sign of swirls on his/her E.

*SIDE NOTE* The controversy over a claybar affecting the paint was debated in my shop about 4-5 years ago. An older gentlemen at the shop assured me that it did and proved his point by claybarring a clean painted surface without clearcoat. With the same motion and rubbing encountered on a vehicle's surface, and without a doubt, the green coloring of the paint was transferred to the claybar. For this reason and the factor that the claybar has an obvious fine grit, I will stand behind the fact that a claybar has a very fine abrasive quality, but is soft enough and fine enough to not allow enough pressure to damage the paint if properly used (especially with a clearcoat), yet does touch and affect the paint. If a claybar had zero abrasive qualities and no possible way of affecting the paint, it would not be packaged with a warning to avoid applying too much pressure, without lubrication, or rubbing in one spot for too long. Also, I, with others on this site/forum, have/will also attest to the cleaner and smoother shine after a proper claybarring. Anyway, I don't want to argue, just for you to understand my reasoning (you don't have to agree, just understand). Give it a try for yourself.

Thanks for everyone's contribution

eSquare