Please use this thread to discuss any problems or issues with your windshield cracking, etc.

I got my first crack today. It figures on the day of the bear mountain meet. I can't tell if it was a impact or stress crack. I called my dealer and they said no problem and to bring it in when I get a chance and I have full glass coverage so it shouldn't be a problem. The funny thing is this week I heard the dash making a funny noise and my experience in the past is when you hear that "creeking" noise it usually means that a crack is coming but I ignored it since it was a new car. The crack is in the lower right corner of the windshield in fron of the passenger seat.

I'll post an update when I get it done.

My windshield is cracked in the middle. The dealer said it was an impact crack and wouldn't fix it. The funny thing is I never heard or saw anything hit the windshield. I just came out one morning and there it was. There isn't a star or a chip, just a crack about an inch long. It happened just a few days after I bought my E.

I had my windshield fixed in my driveway. I have posted pics for everyone to see at this link and some more info.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4726

less than 500 miles and a star appeared on the front windshield, passenger side.

Has any one noticed that the headliner in the element is frayed were the ceiling meets the glass after having the windshield replaced?

Has any one noticed that the headliner in the element is frayed were the ceiling meets the glass after having the windshield replaced?

yeah I have it near the sunroof too. Very WEird.

Has any one noticed that the headliner in the element is frayed were the ceiling meets the glass after having the windshield replaced?
_________________

Well I've never had a cracked windscreen in 40 years of driving bad roads till I got my Element. (lower right passenger side).
The crack keeps creeping towards the lower corner.
The dealer said that something hit it below the wiper blade and gave me an estimate of $ 800.00. I'll leave it for all to see.

Still, I do love the vehicle.

That is where mine was hit. Right below the wiper on the passenger side. Very weird. I still think that it wasn't an impact crack since it did originate from the bottom of the windshield. It didn't cost me anything anyway because I have glass coverage but I still think Honda should have paid for it.

The location of the crack is strange in that mine is in that same location.
Theres a tiny, I mean tiny pit under the passenger wiper blade thats in the middle of a crack that runs to the bottom of the windshield and to the right.
The dealer seemed perplexed when I mentioned that perhaps the issue is that the windshield is susceptible to a crack running if there is any impact in that area due to stress already on the windshield. He's going to check with the rep but I ain't holding my breath. Asides from some rattles around the passenger side, thats been about it after 2 months and 6000 miles. Fine piece of business.

Mike

THE CRACKING IS FROM SPURS IN THE WINDOW CHANNEL ALL DEALERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND IT ON INTERACTIVIE NETWORK

You oughta be able to find, and unclick the CAPS LOCK key.

[quote:14b227d92a=" "]You oughta be able to find, and unclick the CAPS LOCK key.[/quote:14b227d92a]
I think having a factory trained Honda tech on here is well worth putting up with messages typed in all caps. :D

Well, it finally happened! Woke up this morning to find a crack in lower corner driver side near the NJ registration/inspection sticker. Vehicle has less than 500 miles; I haven't even made my first payment yet! Went to the dealer [Planet Honda, Union NJ] and service manager takes a look. He points to some microscopic pit with his pen and swears it's an impact crack. Now, I've been driving for 30 years and have never had a cracked windshield! He won't replace the windshield. He says to come back when the Honda rep is there and have him look at it. Now, I'm thinking...I had to go all the way to the dealer and he won't do anything about it. Now I have to come in AGAIN and have somebody ELSE take a look? Has Honda considered the incredible inconvenience this has caused everyone? Here we are, extending a great deal of faith and loyalty to Honda in buying a car in its first model year and we have to get grief from the dealer's service departments! While we still love the car, I could get browned off on Honda and never go near one again.

What have other people done when the service managers won't do the work under warranty? My plan is to see another dealer on Monday and if I get the same runaround, I'll contact the Honda main office. Has anybody had any experience with Honda main office?

I am very sorry about the cap lock I am new to message boards and did not know.

[quote:d54e6c90fe=" "]I am very sorry about the cap lock I am new to message boards and did not know.[/quote:d54e6c90fe]
Welcome to the forums -- a lot of us are glad to see a tech here, regardless of how you type. ;)

[quote:083a0c9c6d=" "]I am very sorry about the cap lock I am new to message boards and did not know.[/quote:083a0c9c6d]

Ok, I apologize for making my tongue-in-cheek joke about your sig then. :)

-brendan

:cry: My Windsheild cracked yesterday on my first road trip in the E!! i still dont know if that is warranteed, does anyone know if it was warrantied?

Glass is not generally covered under the warranty.

If you can't see an impact-point that caused the crack, you might be able to get your local dealer to fix it.

The best way to get anything warrantied is threaten to call Honda. If a dealer gets too many bad CSI's Honda gets really mad. aristoBrat is 100% right with the problems of windshields a warranty with no impact marks shouldn't be a problem

I've got pretty much the same experience as distant-echo, except that my windshield is cracked on the passenger side.

The windshield was fine at about 9:00 PM when we pulled into our garage, and at 6:30 AM the next day it had a 2 inch crack coming up from the edge of the window to the bottom edge of the wiper blade. By 4:00 PM, the crack had grown to 4 inches long.

I took it to the dealership, and the service manager tells me, before even looking at the vehicle, "I've got over 16 years of experience doing this and there's no such thing as a stress crack". I tried to show him a printout of the TSB 03-028 and he pushed it away refusing to even look at it. I told him about all of the posts on this board and he flatly stated that he didn't care what people posted on the `Net.

Instead, he points to a pit smaller than the size of a grain of salt and located directly under the wiper blade and tries to tell me that it is an impact point. How can a rock fly up to my windshield, stop, lift the wiper blade, and then proceed to hit the window? To top it all off, he even tried to stop us from making an appointment to speak with the District Service Manager.

Being throughly disgusted with my dealer, I tried to take it to another dealer in the area, but was told by that service manager that since I bought the vehicle from another local dealer, they would not do warranty work on it. By now, the crack has grown to over 6 inches long - you cannot tell me that an unstressed piece of glass will crack like that with constant temperatures (no heat or AC either) in the low 60's.

I sincerly hope that this is not the treatment everyone else is getting from Honda. This policy (at least in my area) of blaming the customer for Honda's design flaws is completely absurd. I've called American Honda, but they claim to stand by the decisions of their dealer network.

I'm extremely upset about this situation, and as much as we love the Element, we regret having bought a vehicle with what we feel is a warranty not worth the paper its written on.

Wow! How did you NOT punch this guy? :)

The local glass company here told me that impact points always have smaller cracks that radiate outwards from where whatever hit. If you're just seeing a pit missing (which is how mine looked), then I really don't believe that's an impact.

Unless something has changed, the other service manager is dead wrong. The first thing that the Honda Customer Support (1-800 folks) tell you is to take your vehicle to another local dealer for warranty work if you're having problems with the first dealer.

I wonder if the service manager from the first dealer called the second dealership? The fact he tried to stop you from making an appointment with the District Service Manager makes it sound really fishy.

And since Honda has only been making the Element for ONE year (and they apparently are doing the windshields in a different way than other models), what the hell does his 16 years of experience have to do with anything? ARGH .. now he's got me mad! :)

Honestly, if both of my local dealers blew me off (after confirming with local glass people that it really wasn't an impact that caused my windshield to crack), my next stop was going to be one of our local TV stations -- they have one of those consumer investigative reporters that loves stories like this. Second stop would be to get some cling on graphics for the whole side of my Element making some comment about the Windshield problem and how dealers won't address the issue. THIS IS CRAZY!

You might try contacting your salesperson and getting their management involved. Just let them know you will never shop there again if they dont try to help you.

Amy

At this point, I've contacted two dealers and gotten a huge run-around. American Honda could only tell me that I should not have been treated in such an unprofessional manner, but they could offer no other solution than to return to the dealer again.

At this point, I'm livid about the situation. It's not about the windshield anymore, it's the principal of the matter. Do I spend my hard-earned money on a vehicle to be blamed and called a liar when an apparently common problem happens? I don't think so, but I've run out of places to turn.

I guess at this point, I'll just laugh it off and tell myself that my Jeep dealer never treats me like this...

[quote:5c467350b9=" "]I guess at this point, I'll just laugh it off and tell myself that my Jeep dealer never treats me like this...[/quote:5c467350b9]
You could do that.

I wouldn't -- it's the principal involved. I'd become the biggest pain they've ever dealt with. Until the TOP person at Honda says "we're not going to fix it", I'd keep going.

happypenguin - the way you were treated is disgusting. It seems as if they assumed from the beginning you were a scam artist. I am sure you will not buy anything from that dealer, even a bic pen. What a way to do business.

Were is the dealership I can TRY to help you out. The district manager should be able to help you. They are the ones that can ok almost anything. Honda has a s/b on the windows so that's not the issue

MRFOGGER - I appreciate the offer. I'm don't know what, if anything can be done now, as I had to have the crack stabilzed by a local glass shop before it grew any longer. I'm sure that in the eyes of my Honda dealer, this probably voids my warranty on the transmission or some such nonsense.

I'm not sure if it is against the policy of this forum to reveal the names of dealerships, but if it is, I apologize in advance and hope that the moderator edits this posting. I also disclaim that my previous posts are not intended to represent typical Honda dealership behavior, only my personal experience with my selling dealer and one other local dealer.

The selling dealership I've had the extreme displeasure to deal with is Team Honda (part of AutoNation) and is located in Lithia Springs GA, just outside of downtown Atlanta.

I'm not sure where to go from here. The telephone CSR at American Honda was fairly nice, but obviously powerless to do anything to actually help me. The District Service Manager is at the dealership a whopping one day per month, thus ensuring that it is virtually impossible to present my case to him/her. Does anyone have any contact information for any regional management in the southeast? Or should I just send letters to the regular Honda address?

[quote:2f08731203=" "]I'm sure that in the eyes of my Honda dealer, this probably voids my warranty on the transmission or some such nonsense.[/quote:2f08731203]
Actually, I think the transmission warranty is still good, unless you use unleaded gas in the Element, in which case it's immediately voided. ;) j/k

Even though the District Manager is only in that dealership one day of the month, can you get that person's telephone number/email address and contact them in advance of their next visit?

I don't see a problem naming your problems with a certain dealership. As consumers we should give the good with the bad. In my opinion (for what it's worth) that is one of the reasons for message boards like this. I will do everything in my power to get you a distric managers name,adress,and number. It shouldn't be a problem. My service manager is one of the few that put the consumer first and Honda second.

After being treated rudely by the service manager at Planet Honda in Union, NJ [where I bought the vehicle] my wife took our E to Madison Honda and it was like NIGHT AND DAY! The service manager there said "no problem...we know about the issue and of course the work will be done under warranty." I couldn't believe the difference. He even asked my wife if we had bought the car there and we said no, but that we were interested in starting a service relationship with his dealership. He said he'd be happy to do the work for us. The windshield is on order and is expected in a week. Letters will be going out next week to the manager of Planet Honda complaining of the lousy service and how they've lost a customer because of some idiotic service manager. Honda USA will be getting copies.
I guess you can't go by what one dealer tells you. When you know you're in the right, you just have to keep looking for that one reputable dealer.
One thing I don't understand...why wouldn't a dealer want to make a customer happy? Aren't warranty repairs reimbursed by Honda? What have they got to lose?

They only make @10 bucks on a windsheild though warranty. Plus they normally sub it out to a glass shop. Some service managers look at it as a chance to win your service. Others forget what it's like on the other side

[quote:f5cb040dc8=" "]They only make @10 bucks on a windsheild though warranty. Plus they normally sub it out to a glass shop. Some service managers look at it as a chance to win your service. Others forget what it's like on the other side[/quote:f5cb040dc8]
But it also doesn't cost the dealer anything, does it? My dealer even had the glass guy do the work OUTSIDE of the bay, so it didn't even cost them the space in the bay.

If Honda picks up the tab, I don't understand why dealers are being so difficult to deal with about this. It should be pretty easy to determine if the crack is caused by a legit-impact or not.

You are 100% correct. It don't cost the dealer anything. Some dealers are rude and don not put the customer first. I do not understand. What ever happened to "the customer is always right"

Just bought the E on Saturday. :D We had to wait while they put in a new wind shield. Yesterday noticed a small crack down low between the wiper blades. :cry: Last night it spread to the far drivers corner. :evil: It may have been a small rock chip. I am now going to the dealer and I will post how it went.

Less than 400 clicks. We love the car and the reaction of people seeing it!

Norm

Well, it went exactly like other people have posted. They took the pen out, said it was a rock chip, bla, bla, bla. Next stop the toll free number.

Norm

Well, it went exactly like other people have posted. They took the pen out, said it was a rock chip, bla, bla, bla. Next stop the toll free number.

Norm

Sorry for the multiple post.

Norm

Well, talked to Customer Service (1-800) and they were of no help. All they did was phone the service manager where I took and took his word for it.

Our sales guy phoned and said he was working on getting us a windshield at cost. I don't even want to do this but I'll wait and see what he says as far as $. Does anyone know what cost would be on a windshield?

Thanx, Norm

Go to the following site to register a windshield crack complaint:1

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/results.cfm

Unfortunately my windshield developed a small star crack while driving on the highway. Nothing noticeable hit it. If anything did hit it, it was extremely small. My dealer replaced it free of charge after some arm twisting. I brought them a copy of all windshield complaints filed with the NHTSA and it was very helpful. The more complaints that are registered on NHTSA, the more likely something will be done about the windshield problem.

Hi, I tried to report this but it would not take it. Maybe because I'm from Canada. The site let let me fill in all the forms but then came up with errors when I tried to submit. Is there anything like this organaization in Canada?

Thanx for your help.

It should work despite your residing in Canada. Go to the site again and see if it registered - I didn't think mine posted initially but it eventually showed up on the site. If not, I'd try again and see what happens. I'm not aware of any other similar organization but I'll let you know if I find one.

Evidently, you must enable your cookies . . .

Here is the direct link to the start page for the online complaint form:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm
If you get an error, session cookies must be enabled for it to work.

I searched the database for the complaints already on file... wow!

22 complaints about windshield cracking! That's huge when you consider that the E has been out less than a year and then you weigh it by the number of people who are even aware of the NHTSA site, much less who will take the time to report it.

To make comparisons, I searched on the other 2003 Honda models. There are zero complaints about windshield cracking.

I also searched on a very commonly reported (non-windshield) problem on another vehicle I'm familiar with, and there were 24 reports - but that's over a 3-year period, with 10 times the number of that particular year/model on the road than the E.

Never mind the number of folks reporting the problem here, statistically speaking this is a major bombshell.

"Houston, we have a problem."

I have enabled cookies, session cookies etc. and still no go. However, I have printed off all Element complaints and will take them into the dealer. I searched similar vehicles on the website with verticle windshields and got zero complaints. I tried Hummer, Jeep (all models), Izuzu, among others and there were zero complaints. My dealer called on Friday and said they are looking at getting me a windshield for their cost. I do not want to do even this. I really think Honda must address the problem and redesign and/or replace everyones windshield.

Does someone have to have their windshield explode and crash before Honda will look into this. We need our third windshield in under 700 miles!

Thanks everyone.

Norm

Stay on them. They should fix it regardless of what your warranty says. Every dealer by law impliedly warrants that their product is fit for the purpose for which it is sold. If your Element does not hold up under ordinary driving conditions, it is not fit for the purpose it is sold for and the dealer/merchant has breached these implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose.

last weekend we noticed a crack underneith the passenger wiper that steadily grew upwards and YES it developed a chip that my local dealer said "impact damage! call your insurance agent" Even thought we told them we are sure nothing had hit it, they would not listen.

I called the 800 number and they said we could make an appointment with the dealer when the DPSM was in and he could look at it, but HOLY CRAP all this is more trouble than its worth.

With all the popping, and cracking noises this thing makes and the interior scratching so easily when you look at it hard enough and now this with the windsheild I wish I had not bought it.

It is such a shame because my wife and I have had so much great luck with Honda vehicles in the past

Make sure you report your cracked windshield complaint to the NHTSA. Here is the link:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

Mine was complaint #23....

Im still fuming from the way my local dealer dismissed it and would not listen to me.......

down by the sea........

after cracking spontaneously at the same exact place as many of you (near center under passenger wiper) , having a DPSM look over the crack with a microscope. (no, really) and disallow any warranty action on the problem. my crack occured with no nearbye traffic , and eventually spread to the drivers side bottom corner as well. im going to end up taking it into the dealer to see if the TSB applies. (if i take it to the safelite guy. how the heck am i gonna know?)

im still calling and refusing to let honda call the shot on this one. at this point its total principle. the dealer has agreed to even pay someone to do the job, outside of honda. meaning my dealer would shoulder the burden.
honda is staying moot .

the other element forum out there has the full story of cracking my windshield on a weekend trip to canada under general discussion. (sorry TMac, but beats chewing my cabbage twice)

so far i have spent almost an entire work week chasing this demon. perhaps i should send honda the bill. lol

id like to hear from those who have had breakage in the same area of the windshield. mine developed a crack under the passenger wiper blade near center. over time the crack spread to the drivers side corner. some galling of the glass has occured. since the crack resembling stone chips. (im starting to beleive this is something inherent in the properties of the glass.

id also like to see someone file a class action on this one.

those who wish to reach me on this matter e mail me at
nospam.donstermonster@earthlink.net
(remove the nospam.)


best of luck to all
D.

i wanted to let you know, I just contacted the following and lodged complaints against american honda or started the paperwork machine rolling to lodge complaints.

try your state consumer protection agency
http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/crh/state.htm

try the DOT office of auto saftey research
1-800-424-9393 (file right over the phone)

also try calling honda corporate, telling them you are getting nowhere with customer care, or the district service management, they will send you to someone. (i just left an voicemail with someone, and hopefully they will call back. ) if not. i took the name offered and will call back tomorrow.

best of luck.
D.

My Element windshield cracked sometime between Monday night and Tuesday morning. I first noticed a 4-5 inch crack coming from right about the middle of the passenger side wiper. Over the course of the drive to work the crack migrated about 12 inches across the windshield toward the driver side and is still growing. It has just over 3000 miles and I purchased it in late September.

I immediately went to the dealer, and he found a small pit, about the size of the head of a pin right underneath the windshield wiper. He said this was an impact point, and therefore it would not be covered under warrenty. He did not indicate that there was a known issue with Element windshields or that there was a TSB (although my Element falls outside the TSB VIN# range)

I then started a lot of research on all of the Element message boards, ePinons, etc... Here are some interesting points that I have found in reading several different sites:

1. Several of these posts mention cracks that start right underneath the windshield wiper, or have pits right underneath the windshield wiper. Does the windshield wiper play some role in these problems? Are the pits there caused by some disruption in the cracking process? (see point 3)

2. While most folks have been told that there was an impact point I have read on several boards where people have been told by their glass repair shop that impact points ALWAYS have a star crack pattern around them. Mine has no crack pattern except the larger crack - no star shape.

3. I saw 2 interesting points from people who are familiar with cutting glass, and then I confirmed this with a stained glass shop - when cutting or breaking glass, frequently small chips of glass will come off along the cut line. This could be the reason that there are pits even though many of us are sure we did not get hit by anything.

4. Does getting your windshield replaced solve the problem? I have seen about 10 posts from people who have had their Element windshields replaced more than once - only to have them crack again. I'm really not sure what to do about this one - replace or don't replace.

5. Lemon Laws in my state (Oregon) allow me to return the vehicle if it has significant safety or usage issues and less than 12,000 miles. The definition of usage is open to interpretation, however, the more complaints received by the NHTSA can help support this determination.

6. My Insurance company is aware that there is a problem with the 2003 Element windshield and is considering refusing to cover claims based on the fact that the problem is caused by a design defect. They have not made the final decision yet, and my agent told me it would be better for me to have it done sooner than later because they may not wish to cover it later.

7. My Element is outside of the TSB VIN# range, so I'm worried that they will refuse to fix it under the grounds that the problem should not effect my E. However, I have read several posts from people who have experienced the same problem with their E which was also outside of the TSB VIN# range. What did Honda change at 9373 to fix the problem? or was that just the # they were at when they released the TSB and it has yet to be updated?

I don't want to return me E, as except for the windshield I love it. But I don't want to spend $500 bucks every time a tiny rock hits my windshield (or doesn't)

I just thought I'd summarize some of the interesting information I had found in the last 2 days. I'm now armed with reams of paperwork to take back to the dealer and see if I can get it replaced under warrenty.

I strongly urge anyone who has not already done so to report their E windshield problems to the NHTSA at

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq

Currently there are 33 complaints, but I do believe there are more people out there who have had this problem.

after discussing the matter with my dealership's general manager, he has decided that the Dealership would cover the windshield replacement, this after i didnt want to deal with an aftermarket installation. I called american honda in torrance and asked to talk to someone on the customer support pole higher than customer care, regarding windshield issues. i was sent to a voice mail box and i left a detailed message regarding the widespread windshield problems and the E.

This morning i recieved a call from someone in honda america customer service, it seems the voice mail box i reached was someone in engineering. and he sent the call to who he felt might help with the issue. in the course of our talk, i spoke of the internet groups who speak of these windshield issues, gave some urls and discussed many cases with the windshield issue in detail. he was aware of the NHTSA complaints. and a lot of feedback from dealers.

at which point he spoke that engineering was well aware of these issues and are currently taking this issue to task with the E. (nice honda admits they know there is a problem.) this at least shows maybe some promise for the future.

I also made a very formal complaint regarding the district service manager and his poor interaction (at least with this customer) I spoke to him as well about how honda at the dealership level should be reporting these incidents, no matter how the outcome, where breakage and cracks are occuring, travelling to etc. even if they turn the customers away, because how is honda supposed to know about widespread problems when the dealers are sending these people to the aftermarket?

he was apologetic, he was supportive, and very assuring that honda is working towards a way to combat these issues in the future.

i feel pretty good about the whole experience, and was glad i could talk to someone who could help/listen/ and forward what i needed to say in the right ear.

thought i should share this resolution (at this time) with you all.
(my new windshield is to be installed at the dealer tomorrow)

best of luck.
D.

[quote:161d81af89=" "]Being throughly disgusted with my dealer, I tried to take it to another dealer in the area, but was told by that service manager that since I bought the vehicle from another local dealer, they would not do warranty work on it. [/quote:161d81af89]

Working in Honda dealerships as a warranty administrator, I can tell you for fact that the dealership in the second case is absolutly wrong. THEY HAVE TO HONOR THE WARRANTY regardless of where the vehicle was purchased.

That service manager/Director needs to be reported to AHM as fraudently misrepresting the AHM warranty.

Dealers get paid for warranty work from AHM, and as such theres no money out of their pocket unless they do something wrong.

These kinds of Managers/Directors just plain piss me off, and I deal with aproximately 6 Managers in my district being as I am an independant contractor contracted to process the dealership warranty claims and make sure they get paid for "legitimate" warranty claims where they have dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's.

[quote:3bf8bc43d0=" "]The telephone CSR at American Honda was fairly nice, but obviously powerless to do anything to actually help me. The District Service Manager is at the dealership a whopping one day per month, thus ensuring that it is virtually impossible to present my case to him/her. Does anyone have any contact information for any regional management in the southeast? Or should I just send letters to the regular Honda address?[/quote:3bf8bc43d0]

AHM CSR is not powerless, they all have employee numbers and as such they can in fact approve a repair to be made. It's just a matter of them believing what they are being told.

I cant tell you how many warranty claims I process with so and so's approval number on it, and even if the repair doesnt require an approval number, just having it docummented that so and so employee of AHM CSR told us to replace such and such is enough!

Often times they send a IN2000 response message stating that they are allowing 45 days of rental car, or whatever, each CSR has the ability to approve what they want to approve, and it just depends on who the CSR is, and how their bosses are feeling that day.

I use to know a CSR that no longer works for AHM that use to approve a butt load of claims because he could see through the bull and based on personal experience for him, he knew what was coming through the channels repeatedly. By the way he doesnt work at AHM anymore, but that was his choice not AHMs.

had my windshield replaced today, honda came through in the 9th and called stating they would pick up what the dealer did not, still it doesnt help knowing that the district service manager lied to honda and mis represented the type of damage to my windshield, and then when the heat was on him from corporate, turned his story into some mis reported communications error.

either way my windshield got fixed this time for free, since this happened. i lowered the deductable for comp on my policy to 100.00 and ordered a bugflector2 air deflector from an aftermarket supplier. hopefully this will keep stones from hitting my lower windshield if this be the case.

I found it hard to beleive that the flaw the district service manager found in my crack was enough to crack my entire windshield. and honda has asked that the screen be shipped back for analysis in this matter. he indeed had reported it to honda as a STAR or spider. when in fact my crack appeared spontaneously, with no traffic in front of me, with a sudden POP.

there were never any spiders . just a single cracked line. and the flaw he spotted he did with a pocket microscope. (the flaw he found was smaller than the ball at the end of a ball point pen. smaller than 50% of a head of a pin) so report these idiots, but be prepared. they do play CYA very well. and the only thing you can do is keep pressing up the corporate ladder at honda to get satisfaction.

best of luck to all of you.
D.

Maybe LakesideZ can answer this --

If it costs the Honda dealership nothing to fix warranty repairs (like self-cracking windshields), then why are the dealers so hesistant about stepping up to the plate?

[quote:682024383f=" "]Maybe LakesideZ can answer this --

If it costs the Honda dealership nothing to fix warranty repairs (like self-cracking windshields), then why are the dealers so hesistant about stepping up to the plate?[/quote:682024383f]

Right now American Honda is pressuring the dealerships service department to lower warranty costs, that is to say that it costs AHM something like 1 or 2 million dollars/day for warranty repairs (could be off on that figure, it was told to me about 6months ago so.....). What Honda is not taking into account or so one of the service directors that I work with, is that Honda is selling a lot more cars nowadays.

Any part that is replaced by the dealer has to be held in the dealership for 30 days, during that time AHM can request the part back, and they can do testing on the parts to see if they really are defective.

When it comes to windshields, and paint it's a different matter, the service manager has to be really certain that the windshield was not cracked because something struck it, if they even see a small pit mark, they usually will conclude that something struck the windshield. Now imagine this senario.

I take my E into the dealership with a cracked windshield, and theres a tiny pit mark on it, but they warranty it for me. The DPSM then comes on his biweekly visit and inspects the windshield and sees the tiny pit mark and denies the claim, then the dealership is out the full cost of the windshield and probably sublet labor to replace it.

When it comes to paint its the same thing, if a rust spot develops than he has to be sure that nothing struck the vehicle and that the rust came from underneath the paint.

We were one of the highest warranty dealership in the nation and they took away our goodwill authorization (which means we can't authorize any good will warranty (goodwill is anything beyond the 3/36 factory warranty and allowed up to $500.00 and 5 years). So dealerships are attempting to keep down the overall costs of warranty so that they dont get an AHM audit of the service department.

In my 13 years as a warranty administrator, I can honestly say that I dont think we ever turned away valid warranty repairs, and we got into trouble for it by being one of the highest dealerships in the nation with warranty repairs. High warranty sends up a red flag at the AHM auditing department.

Since the E came out, we've only had 1 come into the dealership with a cracked windsield, and it was cracked from the corner passenger side, and there is/was a bulletin about that, so it was an easy warranteable item.

Goodluck to all with this problem, if enough people that have this problem call into AHM's customer service then they will address the situation quicker.

"I took it to the dealership, and the service manager tells me, before even looking at the vehicle, "I've got over 16 years of experience doing this and there's no such thing as a stress crack". I tried to show him a printout of the TSB 03-028 and he pushed it away refusing to even look at it. I told him about all of the posts on this board and he flatly stated that he didn't care what people posted on the `Net. "



I hope for their sake that's not the treatment I get from my dealer!

Problem for me will be....three weeks prior to my "defect" crack developing I did take a stone in the extreme right-hand side of the windshield, just a couple inches away from the pillar. It left the typical small star shaped damage. After that, I was driving all alone on a local freeway (very early morning) and I too heard a funny "creaking" noise coming from the windshield. I didn't notice anything till I came out to the Element at the end of the day and saw the crack, starting at the bottom of the windshield under the passenger side wiper blade and growing upwards about four inches. It has now begun growing again, this time, towards the right side of the windshield. The distance between my stone damaged area and the nearest portion of the defect crack is about 12 inches. There is no way the stone damage brought about the other cracking in the glass. I can't wait to hear what the dealer thinks........

"Hello, Consumer Affairs"?

post your windshield problem to the nhsta database. complaints are growing.

as for mine, they replaced it after some fighting, arguing and wheedling. but it got replaced. now a week past. im in my shop with the front of the car parked under the flourescents, and im noting the crease that runs across the hood. and all over the drivers side. oilcan dents all along the dirvers side of that crease. ..

more complaining will follow im sure. dealer wants to see it tomorrow.

*sigh* note. if you have to get to something. do not rest weight upon the hood. it dents easily along the length of that crease. obviously the glass replacement man didnt realize that.
glad i can honestly say i use a stepladder to reach those areas one cant easily reach ..

im certainly glad i found it before i put my air deflector on.

best
D.

I just got my windshield replaced a week ago, and guess what, on my way home from my DMB concert a funny creaking noise began to come from my windsheild as the drive got longer, the noise got louder, looks like Honda should order me windshield #3, hopefully the dealer will begin to see a pattern!!!1 :? :?

#3???

Ouch! If they don't solve that soon and for good, you may need to map out the honda dealerships/service centers along the route for the road trip... :(

-brendan

funny you say that, ive already looked up 20 dealerships along the way, i have another 2 concerts to go to tuesday and wednesday, hopefully it will either break by then or the noise will stop if not, im gonna have a squeaky windsheild driving across the country, by the way, 3 elements and the dave matthews show in philly tonight, not too shabby

[quote:31921cdcfa=" "]I just got my windshield replaced a week ago, and guess what, on my way home from my DMB concert a funny creaking noise began to come from my windsheild as the drive got longer, the noise got louder, looks like Honda should order me windshield #3, hopefully the dealer will begin to see a pattern!!!1 :? :?[/quote:31921cdcfa]

#3? Have they even gotten tech line involved at this point?

After this one, you'll finally be able to claim the lemmon law and get another E and hopefully wont have this problem anymore.

Though I would think that this being number 3, they will have to get techline involved and they will probably have to fly someone out to investigate to see whats going on. In fact if I were you, I would *insist* that they get someone from techline to fly out and see whats going on with your vehicle that you need 3 windshields.

Goodluck and may the force (of non cracking windshield types) be with you.

[quote:bfe7094224=" "]funny you say that, ive already looked up 20 dealerships along the way, i have another 2 concerts to go to tuesday and wednesday, hopefully it will either break by then or the noise will stop if not, im gonna have a squeaky windsheild driving across the country, by the way, 3 elements and the dave matthews show in philly tonight, not too shabby[/quote:bfe7094224]

Ok, sounds like you've got a plan.

Plus, you can always turn up the DMB on the drive to drown out the squeaks, lol. :)

-brendan

my dealer is replacing my damaged hood. free of charge. (yooohoooo!)
theyll have it two days. and will match the paint, and spray a new hood and install. no argument, no hassles. just setting up the appointment for the new one. gotta say made me feel a lot better about all of the BS over the windshield.

all because of a cracked windshield....hope they get the hint soon!

best
D.

GREETINGS TO ALL MY FELLOW "E" OWNERS.... IVE OWNED CARS 4 EVER AND NEVER HAD A CRACKED WINDSHEILD... TILL MY E. IT APPEARED ON THE LOWER RIGHT SIDE, 3 INCHES... THE DEALER WANTED 750.00. I NEW SOMETHING WAS FISHY.. I DID MY RESERCH.. AND FOUND A FACTORY DEFECT IN CERTAIN VIN # ELEMENTS... THE RIGHT SIDE WINDOW FLANGE HAD BEEN OVER TORQED, THUS CAUSING STRESS ON THE GLASS AND CAUSING THE CRACK TO APPEAR.... PRINTED UP THE INFO, BROUGHT A COPY TO THE DEALER, HE SHOWED IT TO HIS BOSS... THEY SAID THANK YOU VERY MUCH.... AND FIXED MY GLASS FOR FREE. GOOD AS NEW. GO TO... WWW.ELEMENTOWNERSCLUB.COM/TSB03-028WINDSHEILD.GIF . ENJOY THE GIFT! HO, HO, HO!!!!! :lol: :o :D

[quote:35d5e9e2e6=" "]GREETINGS TO ALL MY FELLOW "E" OWNERS.... IVE OWNED CARS 4 EVER AND NEVER HAD A CRACKED WINDSHEILD... TILL MY E. IT APPEARED ON THE LOWER RIGHT SIDE, 3 INCHES... THE DEALER WANTED 750.00. I NEW SOMETHING WAS FISHY.. I DID MY RESERCH.. AND FOUND A FACTORY DEFECT IN CERTAIN VIN # ELEMENTS... THE RIGHT SIDE WINDOW FLANGE HAD BEEN OVER TORQED, THUS CAUSING STRESS ON THE GLASS AND CAUSING THE CRACK TO APPEAR.... PRINTED UP THE INFO, BROUGHT A COPY TO THE DEALER, HE SHOWED IT TO HIS BOSS... THEY SAID THANK YOU VERY MUCH.... AND FIXED MY GLASS FOR FREE. GOOD AS NEW. GO TO... WWW.ELEMENTOWNERSCLUB.COM/TSB03-028WINDSHEILD.GIF . ENJOY THE GIFT! HO, HO, HO!!!!! :lol: :o :D[/quote:35d5e9e2e6] ANY QUESTIONS... DEFENDER752000@YAHOO.COM

Just a quick suggestion.....

Why don't all you owners with the windscreen problem print out this whole topic, write a letter to Honda America and then post it to them so that they have proof of the problems and the way the dealers stuffed you around. I am sure if they are inundated with quite a number of complaints and evidence to back it up, then they will be forced to look at the issue!!

Also gather evidence from other forums about the problem.

Good luck fella's!

After 40 K and 9 Months (not to mention 3 small cracks & 3 Large) I am paying $300 for a new windshield. I think is Bites that they are so weak, but - if youve had your windshield replaced before- it kinda feels like a new car. None of that glare in the sun, no sand pits. I'm just going to plan on replacing HONDA'S junk twice a year. After all any other sport-ute wanna-be would have cost another 5-7K for a stripped version. AND you know you love the attention you get in the E c'mon lets see a smile--- ( yea- I know, it will break in the first mile) LATA!

Well, lo and behold, the same problem of crracking occurred this morning in my Element and I was horrified to read these stories of service managers refusing responsibility. I hope the same doesn't happen to me, but I take it as an omen that the service department didn't call me back this morning.

It is obvious that no impact to the windshield has occurred and the crack (L shaped, lower right, passenger side—beneath the wiper) was first noticed this morning when I got in the car. Originally only about 3 inches in length, and crawling up from the base of the windshield and then over to the right corner, the crack actually grew another two inches in the ten minutes we were in the car. I was driving along when I heard my daughter say, "That crack just got bigger!"

While waiting for the dealer to respond, I tried to register a complaint with the NHTSA, but the information I entered regarding vehicle make, etc. did not appear in the preview before sending. Has anyone else had this problem?

I didn't mention that my VIN is not among those listed in the TSB 03-028 but the problem is identical. Has anyone else had success in having a windshield replaced at no cost, even though the VIN didn't match those referenced? I'm not looking forward to wrangling withe the service department.

ive had it replaced twice at no cost outside the vin, as long as it spurs from somewhere connecting to the car its covered

Is Honda going to do anything about this? How many owners need to complain about their windshield problems until they realize a recall is necessary. It has been only 7 months, yes 7 , and this is the 2nd time my windshield has cracked. Not only that it seems the crack is happening when the car is parked (in a driveway). So it can't possibly be from a flying rock from the highway or the backend of another car. The first crack, I thought it was fluke and somehow it must have happened sometime when I was driving. I didn't even check to see if windshield coverage was available. Second time, which happened near the driver's side, I knew there was something wrong. Boy am I glad I found this site. I didnt realize how many people were having this problem. I am going to bring the car to the dealership. Hopefully there is some positive restitution, if not I think we need to bring this up to Honda (in a louder voice) because it seems to me that nothing's getting resolved. We're all just posting complaints but where is the satisfaction? I had several cars in the past and this is the first vehicle I owned that the windshield has cracked twice. Bklyn, NY

Wow...I can't believe it! I took my Element in today for the first service and to make a first mention of the windshield crack, and the service advisor's response could have been taken almost verbatim from the postings on this thread!

He walked over to the passenger side of my E and from about three feet away points his pen at my windshield and says, "See right here, that's an impact point. Something hit your windshield". He was pointing of course, at that tiny little pinpoint area that we are all now familiar with where some galling has occured along the fracture line. I stopped him and told him there was no impact there and I had been alone on a deserted freeway at five in the morning when the crack appeared.

I then showed him the service bulletin and he acted like he'd never heard of it. When I mentioned that my E was outside the VIN range he stated "Oh yeah, they won't cover it if it's outside the range". So then I spoke of this forum and the number of other poor souls who have suffered this problem. I also showed him a printout I'd made of all the postings as of a couple nights ago. I don't think he knew what to do!

Anyway, I couldn't pursue it today as I had chores to do and needed to make preparations for a Christmas party the wife and I are attending tonight. I will start this up again next week and will try to take my E in next Saturday to pursue the cracked windshield.

I really love my Element, but am SO disappointed at having Honda treat customers this way. Let the battle begin!

[quote:2da5867f69="badchex"]...the service advisor's response could have been taken almost verbatim from the postings on this thread![/quote:2da5867f69] [quote:2da5867f69="Bush555"]I'm wondering if American Honda hasn't prescribed -- or mandated -- a response regimen for the dealer network, hoping to contain the statistical scope of the problem and avoid a recall. The prevailing consistency of owner experiences seems indicative.

:?[/quote:2da5867f69]


Bush: I think you're dead-on with that. I wonder how many owners have just accepted that nonsense from their Service Advisor and gone and replaced the glass out of their own pocket? :cry:

So if enough people report this, can NHTSA force Honda to issue a recall? Seems like we need to make sure that everyone reports it to NHTSA if we want anything to happen...

Bill

As someone who got the royal runaround from a service manager who sounded like he was reading a very well rehearsed script, you don't have to take it. Innocently thinking that the service manager at the dealer [Planet Honda, Union NJ] where I purchased the vehicle would want to keep me happy, I was extremely shocked at the vehemence of his argument that I had an impact crack. Jamming that now familiar ballpoint pen in the crack, he swore up and down a stack of bibles that he could see the point of impact. Ummmm, he actually had to lift part of the rubber weatherstripping...it's amazing how those pesky stones can get under the seal!!!! When I saw I wasn't getting anywhere after 20 minutes, I left and went to another dealer in my area [Madison Honda, Madison NJ] who looked at the crack and immediately told me it was indeed a stress crack and would be covered under warranty. We were treated with respect and courtesy. Required parts were ordered and repair was made with no hassle a few days later. I will now take all my service business to Madison Honda. You don't have to take crap from your dealer, go somewhere else where they would appreciate your service business.

I have noticed that from many of the descriptions and pictures concerning
the cracked windshields that many are rock chips. Honda has a service bulletin concerning cracking of the windshield however the cause IS NOT a defective windshield but the seating surface where the glass attaches to the body. The surface is uneven and a high spot applies uneven pressure to the glass causing a stress crack. The remedy is to smooth out the surface and install new glass. The tip off that this is the problem would be horizontal cracks originating in the lower corners of the windshield and radiating toward the middle of the windshield. Additionally an easy way to determine if you windshield is cracked by stress or by a rock is to run a ball point pen along the crack, if you can feel it catch in a small indent, it is rock chipped, if you can't it mau be a stress crack. I have been a service manager for Honda for over 18 years and live in an area with a lot of gravel
roads. I have not seen an abnormally high rate of windshield cracks in the
Element. Hope this was informative.

JTRACERX69 ~ Your input is appreciated, yes.

However..what you just posted is almost a word for word duplication of what my dealer told me, and also mimics what other folks have posted here and on the NHTSA site. Sounds like a written speech you were told to memorize.

I was born and raised in the Pacific Northwest, alot of that time very near you. In 30+ years of driving there, I have never had a windshield crack from even a LARGE rock. Just the chunk and star, so you geographic reference doesn't hold water.

> I have not seen an abnormally high rate of windshield cracks in the
Element.

Probably not, but I would have a tendancy to believe that is simply from the fact that there aren't that many Elements on the road yet. I spent almost 3 weeks in Portland a couple months ago, and only saw one other Element on the road. I don't recall seeing ANY on interstae 5 on the 1000 mile trip up there. I don't know what sales are like in Bellingham, but I would bet that the quantity is MUCH smaller than it is in the "Big City" (Har..PDX ;-) I would be curious about sales vs. crack ratios. Do you have that #? What is the percentage?

On mine, what was "Pointed Out" to me by using the pen in crack trick was a small almost invisible pock mark, smaller than SAND that was under the winshield wiper when it is seated. It certainly was smaller than the ball of the pen! That alone is TINY.

I live in So. Cal now. The wipers don't get used a lot, nor were they going when I parked the car, only to come out a couple hours later to find this crack. In the same place everyone else has it, with almost identical characteristics.

I DO have a legitimate rock chip in almost the center of the window from a road hazard I saw and heard. It didn't crack, it did the star thing, as safety glass should. Why would a large projectile in that location not crack, but a grain of sand cause so much more damage? My mechincal engineers at work had a gander at this, and thier educated opinion is stress in combination with inferior quality glass.

Sorry, I am not buying it. You have already admitted to a stress issue in the corners, I think maybe Honda needs to remove thier heels from the dirt and take a look a little farther in on this one. It is obvious from the quantities of complaints we are all seeing that something is not right here.

Hondas stock answer is increasingly infuriating long time and loyal customers who continued to purchase Honda products based partially on the outstanding customer service that Honda WAS known for.

Like so many others have said, I love this vehicle, but unless Honda resolves this issue once and for all, I will be hard pressed to walk into another Honda dealer when it is time for a new car.

Second stop would be to get some cling on graphics for the whole side of my Element making some comment about the Windshield problem and how dealers won't address the issue. THIS IS CRAZY![/quote]


I saw this on a Audi TT. (My Audi TT Sucks) and (My VW Lemon) with a huge lemon on the side of a Jetta.

By the way I had no luck from my dealer as well. I was presented with the old "pen along the crack trick"and then I was told the tiny microscopic chip was impact, I aslo tried to show them the TSB and the 1/2 ream of printed pages of complaints from this site. I basically was told to go to hell and my windshield would cost me $700.00. How do we start a class action suit? Something needs to be done. This is the same reason that I got rid of my 2001 Jetta and its window regulator problem (windows would just fall into the door for no reason and cost was $400.00 a clip). Guess what! months after I got rid of the car, I got a letter in the mail for a class action suit and a little later another letter for the faulty mass air sensor. The bottom line is I feel that Honda should be taking care of us, we are the consumers and we have loud mouths.

BTW I am about to go to another dealer today and I will give an update

while fighting with honda over my crack. (a weeks worth of phone calls and climbing the ladder) I called honda headquarters in California. and the person i eventually reached said that engineering is aware of windshield problems with the element and is working towards a remedy.

now this is a hell of an admission. turns out the district service manager that called the micro-galled area in my crack a road hazard damage, reported my crack had a rock "star" in it. when in fact it was a single line crack coming up from the bottom and then slowly working its way to the drivers side corner. now honda has requested the cracked windshiedl be sent back to headquarters. where they will find. there is no star. i hope the guy gets his butt chewed for it.

I also got the run around and refused to accept the district service managers word for it. eventually i got a new windshield. and now because of the poor installation a new hood to go with it. (the installer dented the hades out of my hood) what seems truly amazing, is none of this would have happened if the district service manager wasnt so hell bent apparent on limiting the number of warranty claims in his district.

honda has a problem. they admitted it to me at least. and if you can press the issue with them long enough to get to someone in power. honda as a corporation will back you up. the problem is. getting someone to listen long enough to get something done. seem the chain of command is like this...

service manager inspects. says no. ....follow up...reach district service manager.....he says no? call customer care, and be told that the district service manager has the final say. dont accept that. call the general manager of the dealer ship, then call honda america. tell them you are not recieving proper care and you want to talk to someone with some meat to make descisions. between them and the general manager . like me youll see some recourse. and i wasnt willing to have my insurance or my dealer foot the bill for it. why should it be thier problem? if honda makes a defective product. then honda should be dealing with it.

my point to the guys at honda in california was simple. if the service network keeps a lid on it. how will honda ever realize how widespread the problem is.

call them. complain in a persistent yet polite manner. they will listen eventually. you just have to get past all the middle management nonsense.

best of luck and of the holidays.
D.

while fighting with honda over my crack. (a weeks worth of phone calls and climbing the ladder) I called honda headquarters in California. and the person i eventually reached said that engineering is aware of windshield problems with the element and is working towards a remedy.

now this is a hell of an admission. turns out the district service manager that called the micro-galled area in my crack a road hazard damage, reported my crack had a rock "star" in it. when in fact it was a single line crack coming up from the bottom and then slowly working its way to the drivers side corner. now honda has requested the cracked windshiedl be sent back to headquarters. where they will find. there is no star. i hope the guy gets his butt chewed for it.

I also got the run around and refused to accept the district service managers word for it. eventually i got a new windshield. and now because of the poor installation a new hood to go with it. (the installer dented the hades out of my hood) what seems truly amazing, is none of this would have happened if the district service manager wasnt so hell bent apparent on limiting the number of warranty claims in his district.

honda has a problem. they admitted it to me at least. and if you can press the issue with them long enough to get to someone in power. honda as a corporation will back you up. the problem is. getting someone to listen long enough to get something done. seem the chain of command is like this...

service manager inspects. says no. ....follow up...reach district service manager.....he says no? call customer care, and be told that the district service manager has the final say. dont accept that. call the general manager of the dealer ship, then call honda america. tell them you are not recieving proper care and you want to talk to someone with some meat to make descisions. between them and the general manager . like me youll see some recourse. and i wasnt willing to have my insurance or my dealer foot the bill for it. why should it be thier problem? if honda makes a defective product. then honda should be dealing with it.

my point to the guys at honda in california was simple. if the service network keeps a lid on it. how will honda ever realize how widespread the problem is.

call them. complain in a persistent yet polite manner. they will listen eventually. you just have to get past all the middle management nonsense.

best of luck and of the holidays.
D.

hey mrfogger, not being that familar with installation of windshield i have a question: if the glass is "glued" to the vehicle framework isn't it "floating" in a sense and should not be subject to racking that would stress it?

Well I went to another dealer today and no go. I am convinced that Honda will not do anything for me. I did get a quote for around $500.00 at the dealer that I went to today because the service manager and I have a mutual friend and he remembered me from somewhere. The guy told me straight out that there is an impact mark and eventhough my vehicle falls in the VIN # range of the TSB that there is no luck. I also got a qote from Diamond Auto Glass for $330.00 installed but it is aftermarket glass and I'm sure they use the same trim pieces where Honda told me that they replace all surrounding clips and moldings with all new stuff. I will most likely go with the Honda glass for $500.00. Also guess what, Diamond told me that they have been getting alot of Element's in lately, at least 2 a week which is alot for one vehicle and they think something is a bit fishy.

HighE - I believe you are correct. The issue is what material is used between the glass and the frame of the car. I read on another forum that Honda went to a harder material. Elements are not the only models with this problem. Civics & Accords also have this problem. When I took my E in for a cracked windshield, which the dealer said was covered, the guy told me that they used a softer material. Like you said, the harder material will not allow the glass to flex, thus causing a stress crack.

Well, I can't possibly go into a Honda dealer with a straight face and tell them that my windshield cracked on it's own now, even tho it did. As I was driving down the hill the other day, I watched in horror, right in front of my eyes, in live time, a crack chase across the entire length of the windshield. The crack was eminating from the corner crack I originally went to honda about, but it found the legitimate rock chip hole in the middle of the windshield and progressed to the other side and down to the drivers corner.

So it's my word against Hondas now. However, when I present for my insurance claim, I will also give them a copy of the NHTSA report I filed 3 days prior to the big crack forming, and also give them print outs of all these compliants.

I think they have a right to investigate (If they already haven't or are in the process of) all these windshiled claims for re-imbursement. I am not sure how much pull a smaller company may have, but I have Farmers, and they have LOTS of power behind them. If they get P Oed enough they can have a little talk with American Honda.

AMERICAN HONDA. That is what I think I am most dissapointed about. I have always driven Hondas, new or used, based on the fact that no American car can come close to touching the quality, cost effectiveness and reliability of the Japanese Giant. I was actually quite pleased, however, to tell folks that gave me the "Buy American" raft of, well, you know, that my 98 Civic and the Element were BOTH built in the USA. Now, the leaps that Honda has made to dispell that American VS. Import myth have seem to be getting blown out of the water.

When folks say "Cheap bit of Japanese Crud" I will still have to tell them "No. It was made in the USA". That does not make me proud at all.

So you have not seen an abnormal number of cracked windshields..........LIAR

I've already responded on this issue on another thread but here I go again mentioning that if when they do replace you glass make sure that YOU inspect the glass yourself....I had an appointment yesterday afternoon at the dealer and when I got there the service advisor said that when "they" inspected the glass delivered from the warehouse, it had a small scratch, and they wanted my opinion, so I almost agreed to have them go ahead and put it on but after closer inspection I noticed that there was a chip on the edge of the glass.... :roll: ...so they're going to call me today and let me know if we are still on for tomorrow when the new glass gets delivered today.... :roll: oh well at least I didn't have to argue with them on having it be an NON-WARRANTY repair....( and I was ready for a fight.... :twisted: )....

Good luck to those of you who actually had problems with their dealer...a suggestion go to another one...my dealer contracts a local reputable glass installer....I dealt with them yeasr ago and they're still in bussines... :shock: ...maybe they still do good work... :D

[quote:8b6a5b1232=" "]I got my first crack today. It figures on the day of the bear mountain meet. I can't tell if it was a impact or stress crack. I called my dealer and they said no problem and to bring it in when I get a chance and I have full glass coverage so it shouldn't be a problem. The funny thing is this week I heard the dash making a funny noise and my experience in the past is when you hear that "creeking" noise it usually means that a crack is coming but I ignored it since it was a new car. The crack is in the lower right corner of the windshield in fron of the passenger seat.

I'll post an update when I get it done.[/quote:8b6a5b1232]

My dealer has tried the same "not responsible for cracked windshield" approach.

Based on the TSB and the overwhelming dialogue concerning this issue, this is a slam dunk problem that should be accepted without question by Honda.

A dealer not being proactive in this situation creates several possibilities the most significant being that replacement of the windshield without fixing the flange will result in another crack & windshield and so on and so on.

Another is that insurance companies will refuse to provide glass coverage for Elements which in some instances may further result in the vehicle being completely uninsurable if glass coverage is automatically included in the auto policy & therefore cannot be "carved out" of the policy.

There really is no question of manufacturer liability as the warranty covers resultant damage to the vehicle caused by the defective part. These damages are NOT a result of being struck by an object that the windshield is designed to deflect without incurring damage. It is a result of a defective part (flange) causing the windshield to fail.

I own two Hondas and an Acura and have been very pleased with the product and service. Honda needs to step up to the plate now and fix this problem.

IMHO...I believe that this is a dealer issue and not Honda... :?: ..weird uh?...well I had a cracked leather seat on my RSX-S and would have never thought iy would be covered under warranty but it was......yet another friend who had the same problem and was denied coverage for the same problem on another dealership....same with the windshield...I believe that the dealer will be tying up a mechanic changing a glass and not making any profit so if they can avoid it they will try,...but if you contact Honda of America they will assist you in the matter...

I did call Honda years ago when I brought my then brand new car for an oil change to pick it up with a big scratch on the bumper...I was told by the dealer that they would do the repair for free if I bought the materials which was a brand new bumper...right :twisted: ..so Honda of America send me a voucher to have it fixed locally (after a close inspection and estimate by my insurance CO) and the problem was resolved...

DON'T GIVE UP..... 8)

Well, I took my first road trip, from Southern Califonia to Montana, the element was great, good milage, goes through snow, started at 20 below. But the darn windshield cracked one night while we were sleeping. My crack started under the passenger side wiper blade, and went down to the edge, and up and across whe windshiel to the right.

We'll see what the dealer says, but I am betting they will find a microscopic rock pit in the general region of the crack. I have already filed complaint #53 on the NHTSA web site about Honde Element Windshields

Terry

[quote:6d7ecdb4f3=" "]
We'll see what the dealer says, but I am betting they will find a microscopic rock pit in the general region of the crack. I have already filed complaint #53 on the NHTSA web site about Honde Element Windshields
[/quote:6d7ecdb4f3]

Thanks for filing. I really think that's what it is going to take to get us all fixed up, is piles of complaints and some action by NHTSA. I hope Honda will prove me wrong...

Bill

Today I brought the Element back to the dealer and had the new windshield installed, no problems this time, meaning the windshield was in good condition....but after I was driving it back home I noticed a "whistling" sound coming from the left top portion of the windshield, just in case.... :wink: the gasket isn't sealing it properly.....update to follow... :roll:....I wonder if is time to buy another Acura, maybe having the vehicle built totally in Japan the odds of having "assembly" problems would dissappear...just maybe... :evil:

UPDATE ON NW ELEMENT WINDSHILEDS: after grumping about the windshiled issue with a pro mechanic friend of mine in Portland Oregon, he inquired of his glass guy about the rate.

His guy says "Oh yeah, I do 2-3 of those a week and I have done a few twice"

2-3 a week of a Civic wouldn't seem unusual to me. There are a lot of them out there, even in a city the smallish size of Portland.

Can't blame it on the current weather either. An ice storm like they are having now happens every 10 years or so, and his comments came BEFORE the dump.

My windshield cracked back in October or November and after much prodding my dealer eventually agreed to replace it without charge. But now my replacement windshield makes a clicking noise when traveling on not so smooth roads. The windshield guy has attempted to fix it twice but can't figure it out. Anybody out there know what the problem might be?

A Follow-up to my windshield crack. There is a small (1/16") pit below the wiper blade which the dealer says is a rock pit that caused the crack. While I understand their point, it is clear to me that shuch a small rock, should not cause the windshield to crack. However, Kudo's to WESSLOH HONDA in San Juan Capistrano California, they are going to replace the cracked windshield for free, even though they really believe that it is clearly rock damage. I am pleased and reccomend them highly, as I have had other dealings with them with a previous Honda Acord and found their service to be quite fair and reasonable.

tasmart - I was going to suggest you fill out a NHTSA report on this, but you already did! :) So, I'm just throwing out another reminder in the thread in case someone else comes along and reads it.

crossing-my-fingers, knocking-on-wood, etc. that mine doesn't crack,
-brendan

Took the vehicle in to have it checked by the dealer and was told that, since there is a pinpoint mark on the crack (and I'm certain it's not the cause of the crack, which has now grown to about 12 inches) it wouldn't be covered under warranty.

Here's my question. The service manager told us that the windshield would need to be returned to the manufacturer for examination before it would be covered under warranty. He said that even if he replaced it, Honda would see the mark, and refuse coverage. Is this true?

No problems yet, will keep an eye out. Yet another example of why this site is great, thanks for the pointer.

The "Return the windshield" line is verbatim to what I got.

And the DSM never called or contacted me in any way as promised by Penske Honda in Ontario Califonia.

I have my insurance claim filed, but I also showed the Farmers folks all this documentation from Here, The other forum and the NHTSA.

Farmers has a special investigations dept, and they were very interested in this information, tho it was eluded to that they were not totally un aware of Element windshield issues outside the TSB.

Honda needs to be aware that this group of folks CAN, and seem to be quite willing to, attack this from all sides. Never underestimate the power of a grassroots movement.

I took my "E" in last weekend for the dealer's first look at the windshield crack.

As I expected, the service advisor came out, took a quick look and determined the crack was the result of an impact. This is getting so predictable! Then he pretended he'd never heard of the Service Bulletin!

Most of the posts I've read sound like the real deal....legitimate claims regarding defect cracks in the glass (possibly caused by window frame high-spots, hard caulking, etc.)

I am so disappointed in Honda for not getting on top of this and for not getting it's dealer network squared away on this issue. This was not the "quality" I expected when I bought a Honda product!

And to SPLDR, I bought mine at Penske Honda too. I meet with the DSR on the 21st of January. We'll see what HE has to say!

I really hate being played for a patsy by these guys....they should be ashamed!

please post what he says! As I mentioned, I could not seriously complain now, but I am curious about his stance, as I for some reason or other think this is not the last time this will happen.

I am going to San Bernardino for my new 'shield..I have had it with Penske for this and a couple other reasons and just don't want to deal with them anymore.

And the Service Manager HAS heard of the bulletin. He quoted it to me, pointing out where the stress cracks occured and he said mine was in the wrong place.

Even if he had no prior knowledge of it before my visit, he sure knew about it after, I made sure he knew that I knew about it.

spdldr:

Just got the call from the dealership (service advisor).....the District Service Rep approved the replacement of my windshield. WhooHooo! Penske Honda gets a gold star for the day.

I love my Element and was SO bummed when that crack appeared, and more so when I read all the postings about other owners suffering the same problem. Hopefully, this is the end of it for me. I don't want to see any more cracks!

Sorry you didn't get the service you expected from the dealer. Hope you and the Element can still be friends and can enjoy many more miles together........

Does anybody know what the HNTSA actually does with the logged complaints about an item such as the windshields? How many compaliants need to be registered before they do something, and what is that something? Is an investigation just reviewing a manufacturers records or what?

On a better note I am getting my new Honda paid for windshield tomorrow, and trying to get a dash rattle fixed. But I am not very confident that a new windshield will not just break like the OEM one did.

How about all you with replaced windshields letting us know .... How many second, third, and fourth windshields are out there

Thanks

:cry: I thaught I was one of the lucky ones with a good windshield but guess what mine cracked too just before X-mas. It cracked like a lot of others have described on the passenger side just under the wiper straight up and to the right. I braught it to the dealer where I baught it and guess what just like everyone else thay said no way it was a rock not covered.
I filed a complaint with the NHTSA ODI# 10054565 and a complaint with
American Honda, thay have a good will policy a one time fix but if it happins again your on your own, I don't know if I like that rout. How can that many windshields get cracked from rocks, are the rocks singling out Elements? :?:
I've ben traveling the highways for thirty years in eight different Honda's and other brands and never had a windshield crack.

November buy - less than 3k and my windshield was replaced today.

OK I admit a rock hit it. Small and no crack showed then but there was a pit...a small pit. A few days later the temps set a record low and LO there was now a 3 foot long crack which did run thru the pit.

Went to the dealer - for grins and giggles - to see if it was a warranty issue. No surprises there!

Had it replaced with non-Honda glass today. Let's see how long it lasts.

Note that I also have a 2002 MINI and action on those web sites also claim bizillions of windshield problems. Yet, I've even had one pop so strong as to require repair that was fixed by the glue injection method cuz it never caused a crack.

So...maybe it is just that those of us that have a winshield failure so soon after delivery assume it is a builder problem. 15 years ago when I accepted a new convertable a drove all of 3 miles before I had a flat from a nail. I went back to the dealer extremely pissed and made him replace the tire - which he did. In restrospect, why? The nail was not his fault. I accused him of delivering the car to me with a nail in the tire! Unlikely, huh.

No one like a problem with their new car. Let's take a deep breath.

Has anyone tried a hood air deflector to help decrease the number of stones hitting the windshield? I'm thinking of adding one after having a little stone chip cause a nice big crack! They're only about $150, and they look pretty easy to install (although you need warm weather for the adhesive to set, and we don't have that right now in Maine).

Can you describe the crack? e.g., from what point on what edge of the windshield it start?

-brendan

Mine cracked from just under the right hand wiper blade up about 6" and then right to within 3 inches of the egde then up about 15 inches and off the edge. Then a second crack only about 2" apeared on the left side ner the bottom of the windshield. I note all these cracks seem to originate near the bottom, under the wiper blades.

On the more pleasent side, my dealer, Weseloh Honda did agree to replace the windshield under warentee as long as I claimed it was a stress crack. I did state that, but I am beginning toi think it more a case of very brittle glass being used, so the slightest impact cuases a small pit (Both of my craks had a 1/16 inch pit, and then the sresses in the windshield cuse the cracks to rapidly propigate.

Terry

I had never read these threads till my window cracked last week, after 2300 klicks on the odo. Anyway, it WAS a rock and it hit in a particularly vulnerable area, as noted on so many other posts, in the black area where the window is epoxied to the frame, under the passenger side wiper. Must be a rock magnet there. It had not gone very far so I got it stabilized by Safelite today. Maybe that will keep it from spreading.

For what it's worth... Safelite quoted me a price of $205 on a replacement window. Can't be any worse than the Honda OEM.

[quote:97e9a846d8=" "]I had never read these threads till my window cracked last week, after 2300 klicks on the odo. Anyway, it WAS a rock and it hit in a particularly vulnerable area, as noted on so many other posts, in the black area where the window is epoxied to the frame, under the passenger side wiper.[/quote:97e9a846d8]

Did you see the rock impact? Or just hear the crack happen?

-brendan

Good point. I was following a dump truck and trailer and heard the snap of a rock hitting the window. I did not see the rock. Later that day I noticed the crack.

I checked and could see an impact pit, about a quester inch about the molding at the bottom of the window, roughly centered under the passenger side wiper. Looks like a rock hit to me. Also looked like that to the repair shops I took it to.

The Safelite folks told me that is common to all recently manufactured vehilcles because of the way they now use a rigid epoxy to bond the window to the body.

What's a mother to do?

Hmm, looks like it'd be hard to get that covered as a warranty repair. The location makes me think that the window defect is involved, but the large pit will be a difficult barrier to get around with honda. :(

-brendan

This is my first post on this board, although I have been following it for several months anticipating the arrival of our 04 GGM EXS 5 speed. The good new is that we finally took delivery on it, two weeks ago on Sunday, Jan 11th.

Now to cut to the chase, you can add us to the list of cracked windows owners (this must be a record, less than two weeks of ownership!). Last week we went to start it after it had been sitting outside in our driveway (in minis 10 degree weather) and lo and behold a crack had appeared overnight. It starts from the passenger’s lower corner of the windshield, takes a sharp bend and continues straight up for about 8 inches. All this and less than 450 miles on the ODO.

We're set to go to the dealer this week, I'll let you know what happens. But my guess is that Honda hasn’t got a clue as to what’s causing the window to crack.

Well here's the follow up,

My wife brought it in to the dealer (Honda of Keene) today and before you could say "cracked windshield" there was the service manager poking at it with his pen looking for "impact" damage. Of course by poking at it he was able find a miniscule mark which he claims to be impact damage - remember we only have 450 miles on the vehicle when it happened (parked overnight) and it still has the temp plates on it. This must be the script that Honda has told them to rehearse and perform upon command.

Anyway, he said that since it was new, he would talk to the regional representative and would probably have it replaced under warranty. At this rate - 1 window in two weeks- I'll need 26 more just to finish up this year.

I can only hope that Honda gets to the root of the real problem as fast as possible. Obviously the fix in their TSB this summer was not enough.

[quote:3c8b368136=" "]I can only hope that Honda gets to the root of the real problem as fast as possible. Obviously the fix in their TSB this summer was not enough.[/quote:3c8b368136]

Yeah, I've highly suspected they haven't truly dealt with the issue, and that without guidance from above, dealers do their best to push in the non-covered direction to CYA.

-brendan

Seems I'm late to the party. This is my first post. I've had my Element since July. Generally love it. I've had 3 "rock bruises". They haven't run *yet*. I had one patched. Then decided to wait till one ran so I could replace the whole windshield. I got another one last night and decided to check on line and see if this was a common problem.

Wow!

Mine have not been stress fractures so I have little hope that Honda will replace it. But my question is, once replaced with non-Honda glass (The girl I talked to at Boch this morning as much as admitted that Honda glass was thin) is it still a problem?

Thanks.

[quote:100a674f62=" "]But my question is, once replaced with non-Honda glass (The girl I talked to at Boch this morning as much as admitted that Honda glass was thin) is it still a problem?[/quote:100a674f62]

Aside from the fact that Boch *might* be saying anything to get your business...

The glass issue is still unclear. I know one person on the board who has had four windshield replacements! Maybe she can let us know if the repair shop used honda glass or third-party glass on the repairs.

Anyone know if there's a way to tell by looking at it (honda part # or logo, etc.)?

-brendan

My first '03 E windshield cracked at around 3000 miles. The dealer was unsure whether it was an impact or a stress (recall) crack. He took a picture of it and sent it off to Honda. Weeks later, Honda finally decided that it was impact damage ("...hit by a rock") and laid it in my lap.

After complaining to Honda Corporate and my local dealer, Honda agreed to "split" it with me - we ended up paying just over $150.00.

As of today, at 6600 miles, I now have a second windshield that is cracked! This one clearly looks like a rock to me - I'll be the first to assume that one.

My beef is that I've been driving since 1985 (over 18 years) and have NEVER had a cracked windshield in my life - let alone two with less than 4000 miles apart! Luck? I don't think so!

I think the glass is tempered so lightly that even the slightest brush with nature causes damage. Obviously...

And I feel Honda should be financially responsible for this major engineering flaw.

No, I don't live in a small town with gravel roads. I live in a normal city environment with normal driving conditions.

I'm totally disappointed with this and plan to join any group suit or otherwise that comes from this. Keep me informed.

If necessary, I will start the suit myself.

Just thought I would add my windsheild nightmare to the list. Same run around; crack from the lower left windshied. Dealer points out microscopic crack, yada, yada...

I'm bringing out the heavy artillery on Honda...my wife!
Poor bastards...

[quote:b1d3184e31=" "]So...maybe it is just that those of us that have a winshield failure so soon after delivery assume it is a builder problem. 15 years ago when I accepted a new convertable a drove all of 3 miles before I had a flat from a nail. I went back to the dealer extremely pissed and made him replace the tire - which he did. In restrospect, why? The nail was not his fault. I accused him of delivering the car to me with a nail in the tire! Unlikely, huh.

No one like a problem with their new car. Let's take a deep breath.[/quote:b1d3184e31]

I'm sure this is part of it but I think the main issue here is most of us know from experience how hard an impact a windshield should be able to withstand and the Element's windshield is cracking far too easily.

Alan

December
The windshield in my Element cracked last week right about the middle of the driver side wiper blade. I was driving it at the time. I was surprised when I noticed it because I didn't recall getting hit by anything. I was just down the road from my dealer so I pulled in. The salesman I dealt with just happened to be out in the lot so I showed him the crack. We both ran our finger over it and didn't see or feel any impact points. I mentioned that I'd read (here) that it was a bit of an issue with Elements. He wasn't aware of it but mentioned that some Civics had problems with windshields cracking.

I then took it into the service department. The guy there wiped the windshield off (had some water on it). Surprise, surprise, there was a small (size of a pin head) chip missing. He tells me it was an impact. Sounding familiar?

I left and called Honda Canada customer support. I asked if there were any service bulletins for the Element's windshield. I was told there weren't. I said that I'd seen a U.S. service bulletin. He starts telling me that Canadian Elements are spec'd different than U.S. Elements and their service bulletins don't apply. I could see I wasn't going to get anywhere with this idiot either.

I called and talked to the salesman about it. He faxed me a copy of the service bulletin. The number of it is X-4-03. It's the same as the U.S. bulletin except the serial number range is different. He stated that because it there was an impact and because my crack wasn't in either lower corner I was out of luck. Also, my Element falls just outside of the serial numbers listed.

I faxed him back 5 pages of similar experiences from here. He showed it to the service manager and suggested I'd likely get it fixed under warranty. Unfortunately in the mean time the service manager left for the holidays. I took it in again and the salesman took some pictures to send to the regional service manager. At this point I suspect I’m in for some more some more run-around.

January
I have a new windshield! The salesman called me one day to tell me the regional service manager was at the dealership and he wanted to arrange for him to look at my windshield.

I took it in and he couldn't see the small chip that the service manager had spotted when I first took it in. I'm not sure if he honestly didn't see it or just didn't want to see it. It was funny when he asked the service manager if he saw the chip....he couldn't see it this time!


I have my salesman to thank for the new windshield. Everyone else at the dealership were absolutely no help, something I won't forget when it comes time to replace my Element.

I wonder how long this windshield will last.

February
The answer, not even two weeks!!!

Friday night I was driving on a freeway that had been sanded because it had snowed a little. Along the way I had a few hits to the windshield. I kept wondering if one would crack my windshield again. I checked the windshield after I had stopped. There were no cracks but I could see a small pit about 1/16" in diameter right about in front of the passenger. By Sunday night a crack about 1/4" had developed.

I'm going to take it back to the place where my windshield was installed and see what they say. At the least I'm hoping they can seal it so that the crack doesn't get any bigger. Hopefully that will last until close to the end of my lease.

Since my dealership was no help to me last time I'm going to see if I can get somewhere with Honda Canada but based on the call I made last time to their customer support line, I'm not holding out much hope there either.

I'm so fed up with my Element at this point that I'm also considering finding a lawyer that specializes in dealing with lemon cars to see if I have a chance of getting my money back.

Unless Honda has an answer to this problem soon, this will be the last Honda I ever own.

Alan

My fellow EOC brethren,

Well, it appears that I'm now a member of the distinguished Windshield Crack Club. I was hoping that the day would never come, but alas when I got out of my E last night - there it was: a nice stress-crack coming out from below the passenger side wiper. :cry: You all know the story - no need to get into it any more than that.

I called the dealership this morning when I got into the office and the service manager told me he had never heard of something like that happening on the Element. Oh boy - this is gonna be a fun experience. I can just tell.

Just thought I'd share my experience with the group... I'll post my results with the dealer sometime next week. After all, I have to bring it back for the seat rocking and A-Pillar rattling issues that WEREN'T fixed the last time I brought it in... But that's another story altogether.

Boat Drinks my friends!

-D

Have had my E for four months now and have been enjoying it until I was sitting in a hospital parking ramp filling out some papers and the windshield snapped. A crack from driver to passenger side appeared immediately.

So, for all of you that think you were hit by something, think again.

It will be interesting to see what the dealer does for me.

Well, it happened. We noticed a small crack, starting a third of the way up on the driver's side edge of the front windshield. The "buggy" as we lovingly refer to our E, has a little over 15,000 miles.

After reading posts here, and TMac's post of the related TSB, I was armed for battle. Brought it to Coast Honda in NJ, where we purchased. They diagnosed the issue as a stress crack and confirmed that there would be no charge. The service person even ordered overnight delivery of the new window when I told them we're going on a road trip next week! :D I'm really impressed with their level of service. [/code]

I've now got a second pit/crack now while trying to deal with Honda about the first crack. Once again, the pit is so minuscule you can't just find it with a pen; you need a fine point pen. Once again, the pit and apparent start/cause is near the edge, in the black area. What is the function of the black area...is it just to cut down glare, or is it chemically/structurally different for a physical reason?

I have previously driven the same roads in my VW Golf summer/winter for 200,000 miles, with never a windshield impact that caused anything other than a tiny bubble size chip, which was easily fixed.... I guess my luck must have just turned and the universe deemed it was time to make up for that 200,00 miles of trouble free everything including windshield. Could be. Or it could be something else.

In the meantime Honda America's customer service has been not very customer oriented. The local service manager was hardly professional and national customer service phone person didn't return my calls.

We love our Element if this windshield thing could be fixed, but I would never recommend a Honda to anyone else because of the lack of customer oriented professional behavior of their people. If the are not going to fix it, they can still have some people skills in their communications with you.

I am now writing to customer service, but it is difficult not to get petty and get a vanity license plate that says DEFECTIVE and park across from the Honda dealership every day.

An intersting side note...anyone know what the ration of NHTSA windshield complaints for the Element is in comparison to a Xterra or Jeep Liberty? 80:1

New instances of stress or sand/pit impact cracks, keep complaining at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

sand impact, pebble 3mm cracked passenger side lower corner, one week later 2 feet. sound like design defect

I thought that I might be one of the lucky ones. But the windshield in my E finally cracked at 12,800 miles, on Friday 2/6/04. The crack was very similar to what I've seen posted here by others. Started as a 2" vertical crack from the bottom edge of the windshield on the passenger side then spreading about 18" to the right. I went to the dealer on Saturday 2/7/04. The dealer's service manager used his ballpoint pen to find an "impact point" (which I could not see) and declared that the windshield could not be replaced under warranty. I pointed out the appropriate TSB and that this appears to be a common failure on the Element. I then asked for an appointment with the district service manager and was told he would not be in until Feb 25th. The dealer's service manager then mentioned that the district service manager can sometimes authorize a "good will" replacement. I received a call from the dealer today, Monday 2/9/04, saying that the windshield would be replaced at no charge as a "good will" gesture. It's being ordered today and should be here next week.

Many thanks to all who posted their experiences here. Because of your efforts, I was able to go to the dealer much more prepared. I'll keep you posted on the results.

Hi Folks,

Just thought I'd post a little horror-story in progress:

I'm a resident of Massachusetts. And it just so happens that windshield replacement in this state is 100% covered by your auto policy - it's actually the law if you can believe that. So - that was the good news...

So... like all the rest of you, my windshield cracked - right underneath the passerger side wiper blade (Sound familiar?) I had already had it fixed for a good sized 'ding' about a month ago, so I haven't gone the route of the dealership figuring it MAY have been due to a road hazard :cry:

Long story short I made the appointment and the glass company came out to replace my windshield while I was at work. So when I got back to my E after a LOOOOONG day at work, here's what I find:

* Poor installation job - adhesive/bonding material all over the moulding.
* The replacement windshield is NOT facory (Honda) glass - in fact, it has a name I've NEVER heard of!
* The 'Paint' on the inside of the glass doesn't cover the exposed materials on the inside of the cabin - you can see foam padding from the roof!

Okay... so maybe I could live the stuff above, but here's the kicker:

* When I started the engine - I could hear more noise than usual from the outside.
* When driving, I could hear massive amounts or WIND NOISE!
* On the highway, I could feel a draft of sorts coming from the bottom of the glass.

I could anly deduct one thing - some cheesehead ordered and installed the wrong cut of glass! Thank God I have an insurance company that will go to bat for me... After reporting the issue they've been SO good in working out a resolution to get this fixed once and for all. In fact, they're calling around right now looking for a factory Honda windshield.

I hope that if someone else goes this route that something like this doesn't happen.

Just thought I'd share the pain with my fellow EOC family. :wink:

Boat Drinks!
[/list]

That sounds like "fun". :(

Had you asked, I would have recommended pushing harder to get the Honda Dealership (any of them) to fix it, even if it's not going to be as pleasant as working through the insurance company.

Reasons:
1. Warranty Issues - the windshield is now no longer covered by Honda, and this could indirectly effect other warranty claims.
2. Insurance rates - depending on how they log this incident, your insurance rates may go up
3. Honda's Responsibility - they should be left holding the bag here, not you or your insurance company.
4. I predict Honda will be releasing another TSB or recall at some point in the next year or so.

-brendan

I'm not sure if it's a Honda thing or an E thing specifically, but we had to replace the windshield of our Odyssey after only 1200 miles. Apparently, we were told a nick was a little too close to the edge--in the black. Personally, I didn't see a nick but I'm not a professional...I'm wiser now...

passenger side top, cracked today.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/crack2.jpg

All the way up there? Maybe you've got some really mean squirrels in the neighborhood?

-brendan

Wow, bad one. Most definitely an impact there... major star pattern. Not the same as the stress cracks from the lower corners.

This is what my E looked like. While it was parked at work, the crack started underneath the windshield wiper. No impact point visible. Honda eventually replaced it under warranty.

http://www.blipnet.net/crack.gif

[quote:5c82e26cc1=" "]This is what my E looked like. While it was parked at work, the crack started underneath the windshield wiper. No impact point visible. Honda eventually replaced it under warranty.

http://www.blipnet.net/crack.gif[/quote:5c82e26cc1]

That crack looked identical to my wife's E, and Honda replaced it 2 days later...but the picture above this response..looks like there is a point of impact...

Got off work on 2/13 and sure enough there was a crack heading up from under the driver's side wiper blade. Called dealer and told them the problem. Grimes Motors said not covered under warranty. Called my salewoman and she had them call me. They said to bring it in on the 16th and have the service manager look at it. I told them to check the issue out before I came. Got there today and the service manager acted like it was the first he had heard of me or the problem. Of course, he found a "chip" half the size of a grain of salt and claimed that caused it. All the chip is the glass edge from the crack sloughing off. I pulled out a bunch of stuff printed from this site and showed it to him. He said never heard of the problem. I had brought it up with my saleswoman before I even bought the car and she assured me no problems. Service manager then said he would call Honda and ask them. If it was a chip like he said why would anything else be relevant. I gave him one day before I call Honda.

I then went to the woman who sold me the Element, a friend of ours from when she and my wife worked together at another dealership. She looked at the so called chip and said there was no way that could have caused the crack and said it clearly started at the edge under the seal and came upwards. Will be interesting how this all plays out between sales and service.

I did file a complaint with the NHTSA. Everyone needs to do so.

Is it just me, or is anyone experiencing a lot of pitting on their Element windshields? My Element has just over 1000 miles, and I had it washed yesterday. My windshield looks like it been driven for more than 2 years! :cry: I'm very concerned about this and planning to visit the dealership about this.

[quote:ee9f7b41f5=" "]Is it just me, or is anyone experiencing a lot of pitting on their Element windshields? My Element has just over 1000 miles, and I had it washed yesterday. My windshield looks like it been driven for more than 2 years! :cry: I'm very concerned about this and planning to visit the dealership about this.[/quote:ee9f7b41f5]

Its not just you, my dad's is the same. Yet the dealer service claims the glass is fine Ha!

Mine went in yesterday for a windshield after a year of fight to get it fix on their dime. It was a goodwill gestuer becasue they have screwed up everything the have done on three of our hondas. (2 element 1 crv) Plus there service guys treat us like we are idiots. Anyway, last week the agreed to fix it and ordered the part and I booked it in for wednesday morning. Wednesday afternoon they called to say they forgot order the windshield. So it might be ready today. Sorry, I had to vent.

I still believe that this glass is poor quality. Our 03 CRV doesn't have a crack, but it looks like its been through a gun fight. We have had it since September and there are three large chips. Our 99 CRV got one chip in 4 and a half years.

bone

What dealer in Calgary? We got a crack after less than 400 kms. The dealer (Honda West) gave us the pen trick etc. and said it was a rock impact. We then got on the phone and called customer service. We got a call in Dec. from the district rep who seemed surprised that it was a problem. She said they would get back to us but haven't yet.

The funny thing is that the crack started between the blades and spread all the over to the left edge, never higher than above the wiper level. It really does not bother us and is not in our line-of-sight. But we have been hit by huge rocks and they didn't cause even a small crack. I am wondering if the first crack has de-stressed the windshield.

Mine has 1300 miles and is getting very pitted already from sand on the roads but that will just help to prove how defective the glass is and the warranty says no coverage for glass except for "defects in material or workmanship". I am still fighting with them on my crack described above, the same as many of you. Be sure to file your complaints with NHTSA.

My cracked windshield above will be replaced even though service manager so tough luck. I called the sales manager again and said he lost a customer. He siad to wait before I called Honda and called me bakc and said they would replace it if I promised not to call Honda and to give them a good report on the questionnaire I rec'd from Honda. I agreed.

My friend that does rock chip repairs looked at the "pit" and said it did cause the crack but one the size of a pin point like this shouldn't cause a crack other than the glass is just so thin and cheap. He said every Element he has seen has a cracked windshield like the ones we are getting.

I"m thinking someone ought to come up with a sitck-on pad that goes around the first inch or two of the glass near the weatherstrip to absorb the impact of grains of sand and bird's toe nail clippings or whatever dinky little speck it is that hits them and cracks them.

I bought the E used and noticed that it had a small chip on the passanger side of the windshield. It had been repaired and there was no run in the windshield. However, there are pits all over the windshield. The windshield on this 1 year old E looks older than the windshield on my 88 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme used to look before I got rid of it a couple of years ago. Furthermore, every morning, the windshield makes some really loud noises as it is warming up. This is absolutely ridiculous.

[quote:85668934a4=" "]grains of sand and bird's toe nail clippings or whatever dinky little speck it is that hits them and cracks them.[/quote:85668934a4]

LOL

-brendan

Back again my fellow EOC members...

As many of you might have read, I had my cracked windshield replaced through my insurance carrier. This was the BIGGEST mistake I’ve ever made as the company that came out not only put the WRONG windshield in, but they botched the installation as well! So.. after arguing with them they came back out with a factory replacement. Well, at least this time they got the windshield right… but once again, the install was terrible!!! Most of the trim work either didn’t fit or was crooked. And it looks like the guy broke the clips that held on my A-Pillar trim! So what did he do? You guessed it! He tried to GLUE it back on!!! You can see the adhesive under there and everything! Thank GOD the thing didn’t cure right so I could see how badly my E had been violated. And do you think I got a call from anyone saying they had a hard time with the installation or needed to come back to finish the work? Whatever…

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/img_0317_1.jpg
http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/img_0316_1.jpg

There’s a moral to this story kids. When it comes to getting the windshield replaced – make sure you go through a dealer-approved shop. This place was approved by the Insurance company but not through the dealer. I really don’t want to see this happening to anyone else. I go to the dealer this week for a ‘proper’ installation and another new windshield. Wish me luck!

Oh yeah, to add insult to injury, the latest glass just cracked this past weekend – in the same place too. Uuuuugh!

Danawj,

Those pictures made me really sad. :(

-brendan

Man, how do you think I felt after finding the carnage in the parking lot after a nasty day at work???

Oh yeah - get this.. the butthead scratched my dashboard too! Man - what an experience. I mean, it'll all be taken care of, but WTF buddy??? Did my E piss you off or something??? Were you jealous because you don't own one and you needed to take it out on something other than your company van? Grrrr.... Okay - I'm done venting :x

Boat Drinks!

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/img_0320_1.jpg

Yep I feel ya buddy. Well let me tell ya I'm on my 3rd windhshield yes "3rd". They are installing it this weekend. Why you ask?, Okay I'll tell you. At the beginning of this thread you see I am the first one to post a problem. Well that was back in september I believe. Okay the Honda dealer recommeded their glass place, so I brought it there. They installed a honda windshield, which I thought was great but I was wrong. It leaked. I called them they came to my house and did a "patch" job which only made it worse. We had a bad snow storm followed by heavy downpours in late november. It leaked all over my dash damaging the center console. I brought it back to the glass place and they installed the second windshield. This time it was a aftermarket one. I didn't care at this point if it was a honda one but I wanted it fixed. Also he was going to fix the dash by replacing the part. After the install, I drove the car home and as I was inspecting the job I noticed a 4 inch scratch down to the metal in my passenger fender and a similar one on the top. Oh boy this was getting ridiculous. I brought it back to them the next day, again he gave me no hassle and apologized and said he would pay for all damages. I was without Boxy for 4 days as she was getting painted. My body guy did a top notch job matching my paint as you can see in this link.

http://www.hondasuv.com/main2/viewtopic.php?t=968

Anyway, that was last Thursday. Friday As I was driving home from work, I commute to Long Island 150 miles a day by the way, I heard a horn noise. I looked in my rear view and nobody was behind me or around me. So I ignored it. I heard it again but it was louder this time. I thought it was my ipod so I shut off the radio. The next time I heard it, it was really loud and long. It was the friggin' windshield again. I brought it back today and boy were they glad to see me (sarcastically speaking). Went out for a test drive with one of their installers. The windshield made the noise again and the guy did the same thing I did, he turned around. He also thought it was a horn. When we got back he brought out a air hose and simulated the wind hitting my windshield. The moudling on top of the windshield was installed wrong. "Oh man this is great," I said. I wanted to talk to the owner I said. They got him on the phone and he knew exactly who I was. I wanted him to install the next windshield I said. Again they gave me no hassle and apologized. Well what else could they do. At least they weren't jerks about it. I told him if they scratch my car they again there "will" be a problem. I hope no one ever has to go through what I went through. All I can say is I love my Element but I hate the windshield.
[/url]

1) Has honda officially, in writing, admitted a problem?
I called the service manager at a large Canadian dealer today. He said there was no problem. And that the windshields have had no more problems than the CRV or the van. Could this be cause the Canadian E is made in England and the US E is made in the US (or so I am told) Therefore possibly having different suppliers of the glass?

2) Is there thicker stronger glass available? Are the dealers just reinstalling the same problem glass?

3) Has the problem been fixed in the latest E's?

1) No. Also, all E's are currently made in Ohio.
2) Maybe. Yes.
3) No, the problem hasn't been fixed.

-brendan

All the "e"'s are still made the same as well as the glass. Unfortunately the way the glass is positioned, almost straight up and down, it is vulenrable to getting hit straight on by an object unlike the CRV's or any other car which will bounce off because of a steeper angle. Honda will not admit that there is something wrong like you said or they will say that your car vin number does not fall into range even if you show them a "service bulletin" (in my opinion is another word for RECALL).

My theory is different: it's not the angle of the glass that is making it more likely to spontaneously crack, but an engineering defect in the shape or flexibility of the frame the glass is fastened to.

-brendan

[quote:7ced3cfbe5=" "]My theory is different: it's not the angle of the glass that is making it more likely to spontaneously crack, but an engineering defect in the shap or flexibility of the frame the glass is fastened to.

-brendan[/quote:7ced3cfbe5]
I think that has something to do with it. On cold mornings, when I fly around a corner on the way to work, the Element really "leans" into the curve, causing some very odd windshield sounds. :(

2004 4WD EX Element, bought January 16, 2004, 1300 miles, cracked windshield.

The crack starts in the lower edge seam, pretty much dead center (the part of your windshield that neither blade wipes), and goes up about 4". Last week I was behind a truck that seemed to be spitting gravel but did not have any major (or even not so major) impacts. Five days later I notice this crack. It wasn't there all day and suddenly just appeared last night.

I can see a tiny, and I mean tiny, little divot in the black area. I'm sure this is what the dealership will call the impact point. When I called this morning, the service rep first said he didn't know about any windshield problems. I told him there was a TSB and he then asked what year my Honda was -- then said that it was only a 2003 problem. *sigh* I know I'm in for a fight when I go there.

As long as your divot doesn't have star-like fractures splentering out from it, then it shouldn't be a point of impact.

Well, that's what the glass places around here told me when I was gathering information "for my fight".

My theory is different: it's not the angle of the glass that is making it more likely to spontaneously crack, but an engineering defect in the shape or flexibility of the frame the glass is fastened to.

-brendan

Yes you are right. It is a factory flaw in which we all know. I'm just saying that the windshield is more susceptible to damage than a normal windshield because of the steeper angle. A rock making a line drive toward the windshield won't bounce off. It will more than likely put a nick in it.

One big crack and three big stars. I am not going to fix it at all. Just drive it and don't think about it until I get ready to sell it. Putting a windshield in every few months, insurance or not, is crap.

[quote:3b069e84f6=" "]One big crack and three big stars. I am not going to fix it at all. Just drive it and don't think about it until I get ready to sell it. Putting a windshield in every few months, insurance or not, is crap.[/quote:3b069e84f6]

I hear ya. Maybe get the stars repaired to see if it makes them less visible to you, but once you get a stress crack, you are relieving some of the stress, so if you get a crack you are okay with, you might as well keep it.

Bill

Well, before I visited my dealer's service dept. I brought the E to two different auto glass places. Both of them said my "little divot" was definitely a rock chip. I have to admit that the divot looked bigger in the full light of day than it did at night in my garage. So I went to the dealer anyway and said that I had a stress crack and the rep in turn did exactly the same things as many here have reported...took out the ballpoint pen and found the "rock chip." Hey, I gave it a shot, LOL! Neither glass repair place, by the way, bothered with the pen test. They said it was a rock hit just by looking at it. One also said that it isn't uncommon for a little hit to cause a big crack on any car -- after I asked if something was wrong with the design if such little thing caused the whole windshield to need replacing.

And finally, my daughter reminded me that we heard something hit the car last week (not on the drive with the gravel spitting truck but a different time). At the time, I thought whatever hit us hit something other than the windshield because I didn't see anything from inside the car. I wish I had thought to inspect the black area of the glass afterwards -- could probably have had that repaired before it turned into a big crack.

I'm relieved in a way that it *was* a rock hit because I don't want to believe that there's going to be an ongoing problem with stress cracks! I hope I'm not being naive. In the meantime, I have glass insurance!

Warranty says will cover glass breaking if due to "defective materials or workmanship". If the tiniest of chips can cause a crack then the glass is defective by reasonable standards. I have three other cars that all have windshields of from 9-11 years old and none of them have cracked even though they are getting a bit pitted from that many years of driving on sanded roads. If it was common then everyone would be getting cracks all the time from sand pits, yet most windshields can take hard hits and not crack unless left unrepaired for too long.

Honda's glass is by their own definition defective in that it will crack immediately with the slightest of chips. They are replacing mine at local dealer and I will use that as proof that they admit a crack from the tiniest chip is due to defective materials, even if they say they are doing it just so I don't call Honda.

to pay for this sad experience of cracked windshields. Better a dominatrix-at least you know what you are paying for. This may be of interest:

http://www.lemonaidcars.com/consumer.htm Acura could'nt take the heat.

Albert--Honda is...


very much aware of the problem. What continues to befuddle me is the inertia of those with cracked winshields. Honda builds excellent cars but their success has made them arrogant. Think not? The Japanese are brutal negoiators and pride themselves on their inscrutability. Honda's ceo, Hiroyuki Yoshino, is a tough nut. He must smile inwardly at some of the stuff posted about windshields. Of coarse he would not laugh aloud as that would be showing weakness.

What can be done? Here is just one example:

http://www.lemonaidcars.com/consumer.htm Accura could'nt take the heat

Ah yes... third windshield and counting. Took this pic before heading off to work this morning - just for documentation purposes. Thought it couldn't hurt to share.

Dropping the ol' E off at the Dealer tonight. They're planning on keeping her for a while to make sure this doesn't happen again - good luck to them! AND it's going in again for the A-Pillar creek and the rocking driver's seat as well. I swear the last time I took the thing in, they did nothing to it :x

I'll send an update on my new windshield soon... Wish us luck!

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I seem to remember reading and/or hearing that the Honda glass is thinner then normal. I had my windshield replaced by the dealership. They sub out that work. The windshield that is in my E now is a PPG. It has been there since December 03 and has gone thru temps down to -12. I also have put about 7,000 miles on the E and no problems. The dealer also told me that they used a softer caulk when installing the windshield.

The dealer replaced my cracked windshield at no charge, calling it a "good will replacement". I am completely satisfied with the repair and would like to commend the folks at O'Neil Honda in Overland Park, KS.

DanaWJ:

The crack in the windshield of my '03 Element looks EXACTLY like the one in your photo. I thought you were using the pics I took!

When you see repeated photos like this (and I've seen several here already) it's obvious that those are NOT impact cracks! While it's nice that the occasional Honda dealer does a "good will" glass replacement, it's time Honda owns up to the fact that SOMETHING is amiss!

My dealer is replacing my windshield but only after I filed with NHTSA and my state Consumer Affairs organization. Good luck to you all.........

[quote:32d98cb487=" "]When you see repeated photos like this (and I've seen several here already) it's obvious that those are NOT impact cracks! While it's nice that the occasional Honda dealer does a "good will" glass replacement, it's time Honda owns up to the fact that SOMETHING is amiss!
[/quote:32d98cb487]

My Odyssey has the exact same crack, caused by a stone impact near the bottom edge of the windshield. Maybe our problem is that we don't feel like a crack should be able to spread so easily.

Bill

[quote:cbb256b7ad=" "]Maybe our problem is that we don't feel like a crack should be able to spread so easily.

Bill[/quote:cbb256b7ad]

I think that is the problem for some of us (myself included). However, we may be up against physics. According to this site, 83% of windshield replacements are caused by edge cracks, with impact points less than three inches from the edge. They explain why at:

http://www.achickandawindshield.com/made-to-crack.htm

While my baby's being fixed from the abuse it's recieved from Harmon Glass, I got a rental to get around in. I was expecting a Ford Focus or something (my dealer outsources through Enterprise). But moments before I got to the dealership last night, I got a call from Enterprise... "Um, we're all out of passenger cars - will you take a truck?" Now's here's me thinking I'll get slipped into a Ranger or something. When I get there, I get the keys to a 2004 Ford F150 4X4! Oh my God - this thing's a BEAST! :shock:

Only took me 5 miles 'till I was missing my E... With any luck, I'll be able to turn in the pig (Can anyone say 15mpg highway?) and get my baby back on Wednesday :D

Just wanted to throw out an update... yet another twist to my already long and windy road to a crack-free windshield!

Boat Drinks!

-DJ

[quote:6cbfd599c7=" "][quote:6cbfd599c7=" "]When you see repeated photos like this (and I've seen several here already) it's obvious that those are NOT impact cracks! While it's nice that the occasional Honda dealer does a "good will" glass replacement, it's time Honda owns up to the fact that SOMETHING is amiss!
[/quote:6cbfd599c7]

My Odyssey has the exact same crack, caused by a stone impact near the bottom edge of the windshield. Maybe our problem is that we don't feel like a crack should be able to spread so easily.

Bill[/quote:6cbfd599c7]

The only problem I have is with Honda dealers who try to convince an owner that an "impact" smaller than the head of a pin caused a crack in the windshield such as DanaWJ and I have experienced.

If that were the case, then the glass would still be defective in my opinion. There's no way such a miniscule "impact" should cause that much damage to the glass. Glass too brittle? Mounting flange has high spots? Caulking too hard and inflexible? It all sounds like a Honda problem to me and customers shouldn't be getting the run-around as they have been from some dealers.

Has anyone with an '04 E had "spontaneous" windsheild cracking issues ? I just picked up mine last week, and I hope Honda has resolved the issue with late models........

I bought my Element last August. It is my first Honda auto. About 6000 miles. Driving down the road, no other traffic around, stopped at a light. Heard a loud "pop" and noticed a crack spreading from under the passenger wiper blade. Assumed I must have had a rock hit the windshield but never saw anything. Weirdest thing I'd ever seen from a simple rock. No obvious pit. The crack spread in three different directions with the longest reaching about 12 inches 24 hours later. Thought I'd do a bit of research and found this thread! Took it to the dealer and got the ball point pen treatment from the service guy. But he seemed to want to help me so without any prodding from me he called another guy over to look at it. Just so happens it was the Honda rep. He decided it was questionable but said he'd give me the benefit of the doubt and replace it under warranty.

Glad to say, unlike several others, I had a very good experience. Dealership in South St. Louis County, Missouri.

I went away for a week and while in the garage the windshield cracked straight up in front of the driver's seat. Took it in to Madison Honda in Madison NJ. They just ordered the new one and said it was fully covered. Didn't even have to ask. They will also fix the rocking seat at the same time and give me a free loaner car. Otherwise my E has been perfect.

Well...on my way to work the other day, I joined the windshield club. I was sitting at a light when I heard a loud POP and then began to watch the crack spread through the windhshield. By the time I got to the dealership, it had spread about halfway across the windshield. Needless to say, it was like Honda was almost expecting me and had the windshield replaced within the week. During the time they had my car, I took an 04 Accord Coupe out for a test drive, and the paperwork is being drawn up as we speak. Hopefully the windshield is a little more durable.

Four weeks later I get a new windshield. Dealer finally agreed to replace if I promised not to call Honda. Two week delay as the glass shop missed calling me when the glass arrived. Funny thing is that their name is Speedy Auto Glass.

Interesting thing is that after the galss cracked I developed a funny rattle at 75 mph and above. Thought maybe it could be the Thule rack bracket covers, the Home Depot grill guard or who knows what. But with the glass fixed the rattle went away so it was the glass. Maybe it releases pressure on the glass enough that it comes loose a bit?

My E had about 15k on it when I got the corner cracks in the windshield, small dot size pits under each wiper blade. My VIN # outside the range of the TSB. I called the dealer ahead of time and explained about the cracks and told them I was coming in armed with the TSB and a 23 page report of complaints logged thru the NHTSB about E windshields. When I arrived I laid all the paperwork on the dash and they said they would look at the windshield. After about 40 minutes they came out and said my oil change and tire rotation were done and that they were ordering me a new windshield. NO QUESTIONS ASKED!! I was ready for a fight that never came. SO.....If you come prepared ahead of time with all of the appropriate documentation...the dealer really can't contest the issue. I think the word is starting to get out to all the dealers, and there is enough documented cases of windshield problems that E owners have a better chance of getting windshields covered under warranty. If your dealer won't warranty the windshield, go to a different dealer, there are those out there that will want your business. If you live in Maryland I highly recommend O'Donnell Honda.

hear hear!

-brendan

I bought a 2004 Honda element ex. I had driven less then a month and had about 500 miles on it when a crack appeared while driving on a snow covered street. It Came from under my left winshield wiper blade. It went from the bottom by the daash to above the the wiper and started to go towards the passanger side. The dealer originally tried to tell me a piece of rock salt caused the crack and wanted me to claim against my insurance. I complained to Honda and the agreed to replace as goodwill. The service manager at the dealer who I did not originally speak with agrred that the chip they found with the pen test should not have caused the crack. He also said the car was built in Dec 2003 and the glass person found the adhesive hadn't cured properrly in that section of the windheild.

Yesterday my wife was driving the car it was a old day in he thirties. When she came back to the car in the parking lot a new crack had appeared starting half way up the drivers side and coming out from the pillar. This windsheild was not even a month old and the car now only had about 1500 miles on it. So she brought it right over to the dealer the service manager said they would replace again at no charge. He also mentioned it happened to another Element recently and it was also orange. I am also getting a free loaner while the car is being fixed.

I am also filing a complaint with The National Hiighway safety board. Clearly there is a defect either in the glass or design.

It appears with the 2003 Elements it was burrs in the window channel that need to be smothed down according to the service manager.[list=]

Hey there - I'm in the Massachusetts area too. You mind me asking what dealership you're working through?

-DJ

I am working with Honda North in Danvers. Did yours crack also??

CH

[quote:1401d2c846=" "]Hey there - I'm in the Massachusetts area too. You mind me asking what dealership you're working through?

-DJ[/quote:1401d2c846]

Not only did mine crack, but I went the other way of getting mine replaced - through the insurance company. Problem was - they screwed up the installation so badly (Harmon Auto Glass) - TWICE - that they caused body AND interior damage to the E. It's been at multiple shops for the last two weeks now. I'm supposed to pick it up tomorrow from the body shop:

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4483&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=150

It's been a total nightmare....

For all people reading up on windshield issues: unless absolutely necessary (and even then, don't do it), don't get your glass repaired by anyone else other than Honda.

And then, unless it's clearly a valid impact replacement, get it fixed for free by Honda.

-brendan

For all people reading up on windshield issues: unless absolutely necessary (and even then, don't do it), don't get your glass repaired by anyone else other than Honda.

And then, unless it's clearly a valid impact replacement, get it fixed for free by Honda.

I understand why you're saying this (repeatedly) Brendan, but I honestly don't find your advice on this to be valid. For one thing, even if you did get your glass repaired "by Honda" it doesn't mean that the dealership is going to actually do the work. And what does "unless absolutely necessary (and even then, don't do it)" mean? If someone has to get their glass fixed and none of the Honda dealerships near them do that kind of work then they're going to have to go to a glass repair place, period.

While I can sympathize with Danawj's experience, I'm not in the least bit sorry I had my glass replaced by an outside party. My new windshield was installed beautifully, it is warranteed against stress cracks for the life of the vehicle, and I wasn't impressed with the original Honda OEM glass anyway.

If it turns out that Honda does issue another TSB for a newfound "frame issue" and I get a stress crack sometime in the future, I would still expect Honda to perform the TSB work (for free) on my E. It doesn't matter that I previously had to have the glass replaced with non-OEM glass by a third party; my dealership doesn't do glass work anyway. If a defect is later found, they will have to fix it.

I can understand some of your reasoning. On the TSB issue, if they finally do release another one (instead of dealing with it on a case by case, and only if people are really mad and have documentation, basis) I would hope they cover those with non-honda sponsored glass. But I'm not sure they would.

But here are my reasons:

- Typically the people having the work-directly-with-3rd-party experiences are having their insurance company pay for it (probably raising their rates since this is now an "incident" on the insurance record) or paying for it out of their own pocket. At a minimum, this means Honda gets away with ignoring the issue, both monetarily as well as reporting wise, and the owner is stuck with spending money on it.

- I would hope that Honda techs and/or Honda-contracted 3rd parties are more likely (not guaranteed, but more likely) to deal with all of the surrounding issues (pun not intended), such as burrs, sufficient and/or well-applied caulking/adhesive, trim pieces, etc. My belief is that the root cause of the stress cracks is not the glass itself, but engineering problems regarding the frame and I think that Honda service is learning that too. 3rd parties, unless they contract to do a lot of E work, will be behind the curve on this.

- Honda repairs will be listed as done by Honda, and you will be less likely to get pushback from Honda should you have a warranty issue that might have been exacerbated by the 3rd party work (leaking, wind noise, rattling).

- Finally: it's clearly a Honda defect. They need their noses rubbed in it, financially, to put pressure on them to come clean and deal with the problems.

[quote:67badf656f=" "]And what does "unless absolutely necessary (and even then, don't do it)" mean?[/quote:67badf656f]

Sorry that was cryptic...let me restate: If you think it's absolutely necessary to go with a 3rd party, stop and think again. That is: if your dealer says no, don't give up. There are other options available: another honda dealer/honda service, more documentation/pressure, wait for honda rep, etc...

I've seen way too many posts in the past six months about very very bad glass replacement experiences. Inevitably it's a direct-with-3rd-party experience.

With that said, I'm glad that your install worked out. :)

-brendan

Thanks for taking the time to clarify your post for me Brendan. I can't say that I disagree with anything you've written -- excellent points. I believe you are saying that we should go *through* Honda for windshield repairs -- not necessarily have the repairs done *by* Honda (which may not be possible).

I totally agree that owners with stress cracks should pressure Honda to replace the windshield and not back down just because it's easier to let insurance cover it. The gray area, however, is when the crack *is* due to an impact, but it's a small impact near the edge. The question becomes, is this a Honda defect particular to the Element or is this just the general nature/design of windshields?

There are companies selling products for the perimeter of the windshield, reasoning that the stresses are concentrated in the outer two to three inches. According to www.edgeguard.com, it takes 2.5 times greater force to cause a crack in the center of a windshield than on the edges. They claim that 83% of all windshield cracks are caused by something striking the outer 2-3" perimeter.


I found your comment interesting:

"Typically the people having the work-directly-with-3rd-party experiences are having their insurance company pay for it (probably raising their rates since this is now an "incident" on the insurance record)"

Insurance companies are not allowed to raise an *individual's* rates due to a glass claim. However, when insurance companies (or regulated companies for that matter) have expense increases they can use this to raise rates in general. The founder of Ultra-Bond, the company that owns Edgeguard, contends that insurance companies use windshield replacement claims as an excuse to increase rates. (See http://www.insurancejournal.com/pr/pr_windshields.htm)

I've strayed from the point here, sorry! I'm left wondering if the cracks we are seeing due to seemingly minor impacts in the outer perimeter are really evidence of a Honda defect or just the way windshields are. Again, I'm not talking about the simultaneous stress crack problem which clearly should not happen.

[quote:dcd41d2c41=" "]Thanks for taking the time to clarify your post for me Brendan. I can't say that I disagree with anything you've written -- excellent points. I believe you are saying that we should go *through* Honda for windshield repairs -- not necessarily have the repairs done *by* Honda (which may not be possible).[/quote:dcd41d2c41]

Exactly.

[quote:dcd41d2c41=" "]I totally agree that owners with stress cracks should pressure Honda to replace the windshield and not back down just because it's easier to let insurance cover it. The gray area, however, is when the crack *is* due to an impact, but it's a small impact near the edge. The question becomes, is this a Honda defect particular to the Element or is this just the general nature/design of windshields? [/quote:dcd41d2c41]

Unfortunately, it becomes even grayer: it appears most, if not all, stress cracks end up with at least one tiny divit near the outside edge of the glass. Every time, the dealer does the pen test, finds the divit and says "impact!". Unless there's alaso the tell-tall star crack, I doubt very much these tiny divits represent anything but normal stress crack behavior.

Because of this *known* business decision of honda service to put as many damaged windshields into the "impact damage" bin as possible, and because of my *belief* that the general windshield stress issue may also make the windshield more susceptable to impact damage from debris that wouldn't phase other windsheilds, I think *all* owners should pursue a honda warranteed fix. That is, unless something very large and very heavy came *through the windshield* and lodged itself somewhere inside the car. :)

But seriously: Honda Service is attempting to take advantage of the grey area over what really is impact damage and the owners need to push back.

[quote:dcd41d2c41=" "]There are companies selling products for the perimeter of the windshield, reasoning that the stresses are concentrated in the outer two to three inches. According to www.edgeguard.com, it takes 2.5 times greater force to cause a crack in the center of a windshield than on the edges. They claim that 83% of all windshield cracks are caused by something striking the outer 2-3" perimeter.[/quote:dcd41d2c41]

That seems scientifically justified. The glass is slightly flexible (more degrees of freedom), but where it's ancored to the car it is not. So, the middle of the glass can spread out the kinetic energy by vibration better...

[quote:dcd41d2c41=" "]I found your comment interesting:

"Typically the people having the work-directly-with-3rd-party experiences are having their insurance company pay for it (probably raising their rates since this is now an "incident" on the insurance record)"

Insurance companies are not allowed to raise an *individual's* rates due to a glass claim. However, when insurance companies (or regulated companies for that matter) have expense increases they can use this to raise rates in general. The founder of Ultra-Bond, the company that owns Edgeguard, contends that insurance companies use windshield replacement claims as an excuse to increase rates. (See http://www.insurancejournal.com/pr/pr_windshields.htm)[/quote:dcd41d2c41]

Ah, ok, I didn't know that. My reaction was based on my rates being raised recently due to what totalled my last car: hitting a huge pothole on a highway that was filled with water. I was sort of annoyed this shows up as an accident on my insurance record. Didn't know glass was excepted. Thanks for the correction.

Taking your statement a bit further, the company's tactics will end up being enshrined in their actuarial tables: if insurance companies start having to cover a whole slew of Honda Element glass claims, Element owner's insurance rates are going to increase in general.

[continued...]

[...continued]

[quote:4ecfa32a64=" "]I've strayed from the point here, sorry! I'm left wondering if the cracks we are seeing due to seemingly minor impacts in the outer perimeter are really evidence of a Honda defect or just the way windshields are. Again, I'm not talking about the simultaneous stress crack problem which clearly should not happen.[/quote:4ecfa32a64]

Again: almost all of the stress cracks show a divit near the outer edge. It's not clear, but the unusual proportion of cracks for this vehicle mean "defect" to me.

-brendan

I am so freakin' mad I could scream or yell or hit or do something truly awful to a innocent stuffed animal....

Last May...rock hit....windshield replaced, $100 deductable

Last Friday....go to lunch, return to work.....3 hours later return to car to go home crack up the middle driver's side of the windshield. I look at it no impact mark, nothing....I call my dealership take it in this afternoon....after some pen digging and grinding....."Not our problem, impact crack" and then get this.....I am then told "I have never seen or heard of a Honda windshield cracking from stress" I flip.....this is a Honda service bulletin!!!! ARG!!!

So after getting the run around from the service department I ask to speak to the GM.....sorry GM in meeting.....then we leave.....call Honda USA on way home.....4-5 business days until a case worker will call us. I am so wicked pissed at this point.....the crack in steming from the edge, just below the windshield wiper and this tiny "impact" point is no bigger than a pen point and this mysterious all powerful pebble hit my E while I was parked.....ARGH!!!!!

At this point I am ready to go sell my E and buy a Toyota.....at this rate I will have to replace my windshield 25 times during the course of a ten year ownership.....I am not happy :(

Just had to vent.

First crack appeared overnight while one-month old ('04, build date 12/03)Element (AWD, EXS, 5-speed, SOP) was parked, beginning at A pillar, driver's side and snaking across fileld of view over the next several days, to a length of 18 inches. First service manager at closest dealership ran infamous ballpoint test and found miniscule nick in black region closest to pillar, said it could not be covered under warranty; second service manager at next closest dealership did the ballpoint test, found the same pinpoint nick, said sorry no warranty coverage, said glass susceptible to cracking if outer layer is impacted. Where do they come up with this malarkey? Not taking "No" for an answer, I thanked the man for his diagnosis, said I most certainly disagree, and departed to continue quest to find warranty coverage. In the meantime, a second crack developed, again overnight, two weeks later, rising vertically beneath driver's wiper, then snaking right and running parallel to first crack. Third dealership, and the one where I had purchased the car, today replaced windshield (along with the moldings, but not the rubber dam) under warranty, no questions asked, no ballpoint test.

Glad to hear you got your due (well, finally...), Ulster.

-brendan

Read and followed all the advice posted about windshield issues. I was armed with a sheaf of papers, including copies of the NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation consumer complaints on this issue, a copy of the TSB (03-028) on cracks at lower corners, and, as luck would have it, a copy of a post on org.board, by someone who had a single crack with a nick and had it replaced under warranty at the same dealership. I also had called Honda's customer relations line both times I discovered cracks and have a case reference number. I will be posting on the NHTSA site to add my complaint to the growing list. Obviously,Honda has a problem with some Element windshields and they ought to have a solution so that all their service departments are on the same page. I liked the car before I bought it, read these boards and knew of the windshield issue, hoped mine would be free of it, but knew going in that if it happened I would get it taken care of, take whatever steps I could to help have Honda address the issue, and move on. If it happens again, I will take the same steps. It is a great vehicle.

Honda America is standing by my dealership....the GM has still not returned my phone call or email. I am done with this issue.....done with my dealership....and after I replace this windshield if it cracks again I am done with Honda.....enuff said.

Hello all. As it has become frighteningly appearant, I am not the only person with a cracked windshield on my element. I have not been one of the lucky ones that got a dealership to take care of my problem, and Honda corporate "Understands how I feel" however I dont want anyone to understand, I simply want them to fix my windshield! I am collecting stories of abnormal cracks at my website http://www.elementscrack.com
If you have had a problem with your windshield cracking, please, check out my site and send me your story and pictures! I think if enough people complain loud enough, Honda will own up to this problem.

Finally heard back from the GM of my dealership....and I quote "We must go by Honda America's decision".....funny, just yesterday Honda America said "Sorry we must go by the Dealership's decision"


Needless to say I am no long a patron of the dealership that I purchased my E from.....I will be having my windshield replaced on Friday....yet another deductable *sigh*

OK,

I finally took my E into the dealership. The service advisor took his pen and pointed to a pinhead size pit (no stars around it or anything) and claimed that it is an "impact crack". I am waiting (for the 2nd hour now to have a honda rep see it. I just filed a claim with the NHTSA and opened a case with american honda.

Any advice? I am very irritated at the treatment I have gotten from honda regarding this issue. I have owned 3 cars and driven them all over the country, sand, rock.... None, NONE of my cars has ever had a cracked windshield until the E.

I am very unhappy at the treatment I have gotten. Ont he phoen with American Honda, the only thing the CSR did was to point ou that Honda is under no obligation to fix my windshield under warrenty.

There is no way I can cought up 700 bucks on regular basis to fix this issue. From reading this thread, it sould like I should expect this kind of problem with the E.

Thanks,

agreed. we don't own an e as of now (we're getting one for early june) but it seems like everyone is having this problem with their elements. i have a couple friends who own them...haven't asked them about any problems, but that seems to be a major problem that is kind of making me a little unsure about honda and the e. although we're still buying it, seems like the pros out-weigh the cons, but this is an expensive con if you need it replaced and it's not covered.

Although it's understandable that Honda does not want to be in the rock-chipped window replacement business and thus uses the ballpoint pen test, it's also very distressing to see how inconsistent they are on replacing windshields that fail that test.

I also wonder if it's even a valid test. Will a stress fracture cause chips to be made along the line?

Honda should bite the bullet on this and replace windows that have cracked coming up from the frame no questions asked.

[quote:2ea9950c4c=" "]it's also very distressing to see how inconsistent they are on replacing windshields that fail that test.

I also wonder if it's even a valid test. Will a stress fracture cause chips to be made along the line?[/quote:2ea9950c4c]

As far as I can tell, reading the posts over many months, there hasn't been ONE windshield that passed the pen test...including the early ones that fell within the TSB range for a free fix.

-brendan

Hi Gang...

After all the crap I went through to get my E repaired after the butchers from Harmon Auto Glass destroyed my baby, my two-week old windshield just gave in. On my way back from the Park & Ride - with nobody in front of me - I heard that tell-tale sound. Snnnaaaappp! A crack right from underneath the driver's side wiper blade.

I have yet to call the dealership OR my insurance company as I really don't know what approach to take for the failure in my FOURTH windshield. Any thoughts? I really don't want to get the insurance folks involved again. They were great in getting everything resolved before - but I really don't want to rope them in again, unless I absolutely have to...

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[quote:7e24a098db=" "]Hi Gang...
<snip>
Any input would be greatly appreciated.[/quote:7e24a098db]

If the crack is unobtrusive, then maybe it's best to live with it for now, since it probably relieved the stress. Just a thought.

Bill

discovered crack this morning coming from under the passenger side windshield wiper, about to go through what everyone else has...not looking forward to it...my dealership is supposedly 14th in the country for their service dept. so im hoping they will work with me because my E is only a month and a half old...man they really need to do something about this!

Four windshields and you're wondering what attitude to take with the dealership? You need to get an attitude! I continue to marvel at the fact that nobody has yet to contact the major media or formed a group to protest. Honda should be getting hammered. They have become totally arrogant.

StLouisPenguin-I'd bet you would excel at forming and leading a protest group. Maybe start by calling http://www.kwmu.org/Programs/cartalk.html
in StLouis or http://www.cartalk.com/menus/show.html
The latter enjoys a huge nationwide audience and they are fearless. I've yet to hear or see anything about this issue in/on the media. It's a sham/shame.

As hammersmn posted,
"Oooo... Good idea to contact the state Atty General Office in your state. In MN we are lucky enough to have Mike Hatch, who seems to relish cases like this (to protect the people of the state always looks good to someone with political aspirations!). He's straight up in Microsoft's face right now.
If (I should say when) I get to experience "the windshield issue", I know who I am calling first."

Love/hate him, he is expert at manipulating the media and is political to the core. Isn't there a caped Crusader in your area? How about(shudder) Ralph Nader? Will Honda resppond to increased pressure? Yes, if enough people get involved. Honda continues having it their way and thy ain't donna budge until someone sets their shorts on fire.
_________________

what about complaining to the bbb? I really hope i dont get the run around but im sure i will...just have to be prepared to do whatever :twisted:

I went out to start my car came back out and a crack on the passenger side right above defrost vent goes up 4 inches then 90° right across the drivers side called insurance company said must have been from being so cold outside and the defroster on ( i held back my laugh knowing full well that it was just bad installation on honda's part) thank god cause my dealership is 74 miles away it goes in tomorrow morning (thursday) anyone know why this is happening tried to look at the TSB but they took it down wonder why should i tell the glass guy anything? thank god for full glass coverage

That TSB that i can't view anymore does some one have a copy I'd be interested to see if my vin is in the range?

Original windshield replaced after 1000 miles - now at 3500 miles the windshield cracked again.

the original had no pitting, just a clean crack. This recent crack has a pit, which I suppose the dealer is going to claim came from a rock/stone flying up off the road. My question - Can't a piece of glass pop out after a crack occurs?

We'll see what the dealer says tomorrow about replacing the glass.

p.s. my Element is a 2004 4WD EX

went to dealer today and he walked out and went right to where the crack was without me telling him and ran his finger over it and said yeah its a stress crack we'll go ahead and take care of that. i guess thats why its ranked the 14th best service dept in the nation

Have just had my 2003 Element for a month and came out to get in it to go home from work yesterday and the windshield was cracked right under the passenger side wiper, and had propagated upwards about 6". Have had it on a couple of road trips and accumulated 2200 miles, but the crack appeared while it was sitting in the parking lot on a sunny day. Oh yeah, and it's also got that little chip in the glass right where the wiper rests. Also reviewed the TSB 03-028 and mine is not included in the VIN range, so we'll see how it goes with the dealer -I've bought several Hondas from him. I doubt seriously that a rock would strike the windshield in EXACTLY the same location on so many different vehicles!

[quote:7face14700=" "]I doubt seriously that a rock would strike the windshield in EXACTLY the same location on so many different vehicles![/quote:7face14700]

I concur: gotta be a stress crack.

-brendan

This is going to sound like a broken record, but to update my previous post of the other day...... I have a 1-month old 2003 E with 2300 miles on it, and came out from work the other day to get in it to go home and the windshield was cracked. Same location as many others have posted, about the middle of the passenger side, starting at the bottom - also have the little "chip" mark everyone has been talking about - my "chip" was about 1/8" below the wiper itself, almost an impossible location for a rock chip in my opinion. Took it to my dealer today, Joe Marina Honda in Tulsa, and the service mgr was called out, and basically said that if that little "chip" was not there he could do something, but otherwise it's not covered under warranty. I did all my research and was armed with testimonials off the internet and the service bulletin, but to no avail. Needless to say, I was steamed.

I urge everybody who's experiencing this to file a complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Board to move this issue to their front burner - If enough people complain about this, something may eventually happen. I was also wondering if anyone has considered a class action lawsuit - are there any legal beagles out there who could comment??

I also discovered there is a website called www.elementscrack.com - I'm sure they would appreciate your story.

Try another honda service?

-brendan

Well I just had my windshield replaced. I was told it had to be a rock or stone that caused the crack. According to the dealer it didn't crack in the right spot for the recall. "Lucky" the windshield people were coming out to do another Element. Surprisingly enough it was in the same area - driver's side by the windshield wipers a nice long curved semi circle. I have driven for the past 24 years about 16,000 miles a year, I have never seen a crack that starts to make a nice neat curve back around to the place it started. I showed it to other garages and they never saw anything like it! My advice take pictures for when they expand the recall and the next time they want $300.

Hey folks,

Just posted my first complaint to the NHTSA website and also contacted the consumer's affairs department at my local news station. I mean, I love my E, but enough's enough. If I don't get anything with these groups, then of course I'll write a formal letter to Honda.

So far, my 5th windshield's doing well, but then again, it was just installed on Saturday! Let's hope this one lasts more than two weeks!

Edit: Oh yeah - here's the latest crack before it was replaced on 4/2/04. These pics were taken during it's initial stage BEFORE it completly spidered out to both pillars :cry: This one came out from under the driver's side wiper as opposed to the last three that came out from the passenger side:

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/dana6.jpg

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/dana7.jpg

Fins up!

-D

I purchased a 2004 element new and i am on my third windshield. has all the dealers been blaming the cracks do to impact? Mine does but still replaces the windshield. i have been driving for 30 years and only one other time had a broken windshield - i saw that rock coming. this car only has 4000 miles on it. HELP!! i love the car but i am begining to wonder if i want my money back (lemon laws ) or report this serious problem to honda and ralph nader.

I have a barley discernable (sp?) crack on the drivers side, about 1/3 of the way up, and in a semi-circular pattern. Almost like there were a diamond imbedded in the wiper blade that is making a fine scratch in the glass. I'm sure Honda didn't put diamonds in their wipers.
You can really see it when driving towards the setting sun.
On a side note, just yesterday I was on the highway and a rock hit my windshield on the passenger side. I cringed as it hit. There is now a very very small pit and a little "dusty" looking. No crack there though.
My Element is 3 weeks from the factory.

[quote:12f8540e4d=" "]I purchased a 2004 element new and i am on my third windshield. has all the dealers been blaming the cracks do to impact? Mine does but still replaces the windshield. i have been driving for 30 years and only one other time had a broken windshield - i saw that rock coming. this car only has 4000 miles on it. HELP!! i love the car but i am begining to wonder if i want my money back (lemon laws ) or report this serious problem to honda and ralph nader.[/quote:12f8540e4d]

The dealers won't say anything is a defect, because they speak for Honda and Honda hasn't said so.

Nader's a bit busy right now, but you should report it to the NHTSA web site.

My position is: be happy the dealer keeps replacing it for free. Keep all your documentation. When you hit 4 or 5 windshields, demand they give you a new car.

-brendan

Jeff: get a glass company to fill in the chip. Might reduce the chances of it becoming a crack in the future...

-brendan

wow this is incredible that all these people have had the same problem as myself. Bought my E in may 2003 first trip to the coast and crack from under drivers side wiper appeared. Was heading towards the side not into my viewing area then it 180'd right across my field of vision. I live in Alberta where windshields being cracked is the norm so the dealership just brushed it off as usual alberta driving. Glass coverage prices are insane out here so to fix it comes out of my pocket. Almost a year later windshield looks like I've been driving in Iraq. Love my vehicle nicknamed "The Hellement." Before I get get my windshield replaced should I talk to my dealership about them covering the next one because of obvious design flaw or just cheap honda glass. Anyone thought about going bulltprooof if so what was the cost?

after being told my stress crack was the all to familiar "impact" crack, by my dealer, i thought i would have to drive looking through a crack for the rest of my E's life. i wasn't going to pay $600 for a new windshield.. then i discovered this website where many of you have the same disturbing crack that originates magically from under the wiper and seems to have the ole' microscopic grain of sand pit in exactly the same place that mine was. so i took the E to another dealer and got the same treatment. although instead of the pen test, they gave me the alternate honda approved test - run a credit card over it to detect the microscopic sand fleck that as we all know actually caused the 18 inch crack. so that was strike two. i would become enraged every time i looked out at the world through my crack. which was often. this didn't breed good driving habits especially in atlanta where i'm usually enraged in traffic anyway. so i took the E to yet another dealer, this time armed with about 200 pages of documented cases of E windshield cracks just like mine from various websites including this one. that, my friends did the trick. they have ordered a new windshield, when it arrives they will have it installed by a glass shop they use. we'll see how that goes.
keep the faith! :wink:

[quote:58238f825a=" "]so i took the E to yet another dealer, this time armed with about 200 pages of documented cases of E windshield cracks just like mine from various websites including this one. that, my friends did the trick. they have ordered a new windshield, when it arrives they will have it installed by a glass shop they use. we'll see how that goes.
keep the faith! :wink:[/quote:58238f825a]

Awesome!

-brendan

Finally got around to having safelite come out and replace my glass today. He didn't see any rock chip, and said little snags are common, almost always present, in cracks like that. When asked how many Elements he does, the installer said "alot. I have done about 50 so far this year. one of them I have done 3 times so far" None of them on a Honda warranty, ALL of them looked like mine.

I showed him the TSB and asked him to look for the high spots. He had never seen the TSB. When the 'shield came out, he looked and it was obvious what the problem was. He showed me, I saw, felt it and it was definately there.. but my E is outside the VIN range.. me thinks Honda must have calculated those VIN #s a little wrong. The installer said with that bit of knowledge, now all the cracks make sense to him.

The installer followed the procedure for the TSB, and even did a nice job of painting it up where he pounded it down. He asked if he could keep the TSB so he would know what to look for on the next E he did (Which was later this afternoon, btw) He said it was an easy fix once the shield is out, and would certainly save a lot of warranty claims for Safelite.

Cost me 100 bucks on my deductable, but the service was far superior to the service Honda is giving on this!

It's official: Honda get a big fat RASPBERRY for this one.

-brendan

Ok, I'm back and I'm mad! I now have crack #3!!!!! Happened yesterday--it literally sounded like someone tapped their fingernail on my windshield and boom!--another crack. It is located in the bottom driver side--more of a chip....crack #2 is also on the driver side but a little higher---3 little scratches.....crack #1 which is the worst, is on the passenger side lower corner and that is a starry-like crack--it is slowly getting bigger and the sun reflects off of it when it's bright out.
We all need to contact the NHTSA (I did earlier this week after getting nowhere with Community Honda in Whittier, CA) and file a formal complaint. I'm waiting for the papers in the mail. I also made another formal complaint in writing to Honda Headquarters. My neighbor also has an E and he also has a crack. I talk to everyone I can with an E and ask them if they have a crack...I also almost talked a woman out of buying an E because I told her about the windshield crack problem. Other than the crack, I love my E! I also told her about my bumper problem (Honda's tried to fix it 3 times and nothing's worked. They said they will replace the bumper for free since I've been in so many times. --The bumper keeps popping off!) I've also had the horn/keyless entry problem and my CD player got real hot and stopped playing CD's after 5 hours. Has this happened to anyone?
Also I forgot who you were----you asked me to post pics of my windshield---well I haven't taken pics yet and I'm wondering if the pics will even come out or will I need a macro lens to get the fine detail--esp. of the chips--the crack should come out fine. I will post them on elements.crack.com. If you haven't checked it out, DO IT! Rob rocks!!!!! Read the stories and report these problems so we can get a recall!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Honda needs to take responsibility of their design flaw before someone gets killed!!!!!!

wow

heres my take for what its worth.
Obviously this is a defect in the body channel where the window goes.
Chances are it has never been feixed at the factory because they have calculated the costs of retooling the production line... (god forbid they fix it by hand...) are still greater than the cost of repairing the windshields they can't talk people into paying for.

luckily mine hasnt busted yet. but if it does I will be there with body tools and touch up paint to smooth the channel before a new one goes on.


What honda needs to do is fix the channel and supply thicker more durable glass on the assembly line and for replacements....

Overnight, my '03 windshield cracked, starting from the bottom and snaking its way up and over to the passenger side. My insurance covers $350, glass shop estimate was $370 (said they had to order the gasket) so I took it into the dealership. They said it looked like a rock chip started below the windshield wiper (seems to me a difficult spot to hit) but that they were going to replace it anyway under warranty. Taking it in this week but will look carefully for a frayed headliner afterward.

Just a note to those that get stuck with having to fix it themselves...

Mine was only $207 from Safelite. I am not sure why the prices are so high from other places, unless you are putting in Honda Glass????

Safelite is a huge company that stands behind thier glass and work and I have had no issues with them. The glass is fine, the install was professional and done without any damage anywhere.. no whistles, creaks or uglies.

Might be a regional thing, I don't know.

I'll be danged if I give my money to Honda for thier glass..

To summarize:
- My '03 cracked while sitting in the parking lot one day in the typical place under the passenger side wiper
- took it to the dealer and he refused to repair under warranty - said it was a rock hit
- My '03 falls outside the Service Bulletin VIN's
- filed a complaint with american honda motors and got a case number
- Also filed a complaint with NHTSA
- American Honda Motors subsequently contacted my dealer and the dealer has agreed to split the cost of repair with me
- This made me even more angry, especially when the Honda Motors rep said "now THAT'S customer service!"
- So this weekend I drew up an agreement for the dealer to sign whereby I agree to pay for 1/2 of the repair, but I would receive a refund if a subsequent Service Bulletin was issued covering my VIN, if a recall occurred, or if Honda lost a class action lawsuit over this issue. I also am asking for free replacement if it ever happens again as long as my extended service warranty is in force.

If they don't agree to that then I'm considering taking it to small claims court.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________

Rather than just compound the frustration felt by the many people with the cracked windshield problem, I decided to contact the channel 2 news segment "Shame On You" via e-mail. I don't know if it will help, but it certainly won't hurt. I also filed my NHTSA complaint....
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________


My windshield originally cracked in November. I was driving in very windy rain and it sounded like the whole windshield was rattling. I was alone on the road, so I don't see how anything could possibly have hit the windshield in the usual place, under the passenger windshield. I didn't discover the crack until the next day. The so called point of impact (pit) was so small that I didn't see it until the service technician pointed it out when I brought the "E" in a month later (the winter in the NE was a bit much, even though it was fun drivin'). You probably could stuff 3 grains of sand in the pit to fill it up. Per procedure, I contacted my salesman who introduced me to the service manager, who sent a service technician out to fluff me off with the same standard line that we all know. The tech told me that he could order a glass for me, but I guess I misunderstood that he wanted me to pay for it. I asked for the regional service manager and was told again the standard answer about the 1 time a month appearance. Service took my number, patted me on the head and said that they would call me when the regional manager came around. In the mean time, I developed a second crack under the driver's wiper. I tried another Honda dealer who, beside the standard answer added that Honda wasn't going to do anything about the problem and the angle of the glass was too upright anyway. Naturally I was skeptical when I got a call from Honda Dealer #1 informing me that the regional manager would be in the area on 4/21, but I would have to leave the "E". I did leave the "E", but as I was leaving I figured that I should take all my documentation and leave it spread out on the passenger seat. Later on the 21st I received a call from Honda saying that my windshield would be repaired as a 1 time goodwill gesture on 4/27.
BTW... My vin# is squarely in the middle of the TSB.....

BW

Just to add to the thread.
The more people add it to the list, the harder it will be for Honda to ignore.

I have had my element for 11 months now and under 12,000 miles on it.

I now have a crack slowly creeping up (from what looks like) the base of the windshield on the middle passenger side.

I run my finger over the crack trying to detect any telltale chips that might indicate impact damage. I can't find any.

Wish me luck....

As told in earlier posts, my windshield has already cracked below the passenger wiper, but after washing the E last weekend I noticed about 4 microscopic chips in the 'shield on the drivers side - didn't notice it until the sun hit them just right. I've got less than 4000 miles on my E and the windshield is starting to look like it's about 20 years old! I' sure this was caused by flying sand off of 18-wheelers on the interstate. I could hear the sand pinging against the windshield, but this happens all the time and has never bothered my other cars. I haven't had this many chips in any of my previous other vehicles combined and I've been driving since the '60's. Clearly this is either a design problem or just bad glass - WE ALL NEED TO KEEP THIS ISSUE ON THE FRONT BURNER SO IT WON'T GO AWAY.

I may try a bug deflector just for the heck of it, although I know it won't stop any rocks. Kinda ironic that the E was supposed to be a vehicle that you could take down those remote gravel/dirt roads to find your favorite camping spot, eh? Yeah, if you don't mind replacing the windshield every couple of months!

I need batteries for the digital camera, so you've got to stand by with a quick and dirty drawings.


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That's the best that I can do. It definately does NOT look like an impact crack. There are TWO rectangular areas on the right side, ONE rectangular area on the left side, both which look like it blew out under some sort of stress. This happened in the black area at the bottom of the windshield.

AND:
I realize that windshields are laminated (at least two pieces of glass sandwiched around a plastic) to keep them from breaking into shards at impact. Is it natural or normal that the lower crack is different than the upper crack?

Did you mean:

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-brendan

add me to the list of members with cracked windshields. I came out this morning to go to work, got in my car, then noticed a huge crack that started on the driver side corner near my reg/inspection stickers and stopped at about midway up the glass. I looked for a point of impact but the crack starts at the end of the windshield..under the trim and weatherstripping. Will take pics tomorrow.

[quote:7844979752=" "]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________

Rather than just compound the frustration felt by the many people with the cracked windshield problem, I decided to contact the channel 2 news segment "Shame On You" via e-mail. I don't know if it will help, but it certainly won't hurt. I also filed my NHTSA complaint....
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[/quote:7844979752]

That is a great idea. In San Diego one of the news channels runs a nightly "It just ain't right!" segment for things such as this. I am not an Element owner mainly because of what I have read about the windshields. It is a constant stopping point for me. I looked at one the other night and asked the dealer if they had heard of the problem. They said "no, never", so I told them it was all over the internet.

Hope they correct it soon.

Well, I don't know if the dealer realized I "knew too much" about the windshield problem, or a decision was made that it would be unwise to lose me as a customer since I'd bought several Hondas from him, but today he agreed to replace my windshield on my '03 at no cost to me. I just bought my '03 on Feb 28, 2004 and it cracked within 30 days and 2300 miles - It was the typical passenger side crack at the bottom with the "rock chip" in the black area. One thing that may be a little different on mine than some of the others was that my windshield literally had over 100 microscopic "rock hits" all over - I've had it out on several road trips to Dallas, Oklahoma City, and have seen a few 18-wheelers throw some sand up at times that hit the windshield, but couldn't believe the huge number of specks on it. The dealer commented that "it may have been on the front of the transport truck when it was being delivered", but I don't buy that. I'm getting the new windshield next week, but I don't know what to do to protect it. I've ordered a bug deflector (Lund Interceptor) which won't stop rocks, but might protect that bottom edge of the windshield a little. I was wondering if Rain-X might have some protective effect. Any advice would be appreciated. AND DON'T GIVE UP IF YOU HAVE A WINDSHIELD PROBLEM - GO TO THE DEALER WITH PRINTOUT OF REPORTS ON THIS FORUM, THE TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN, AND DEFINITELY FILE A COMPLAINT WITH AMERICAN HONDA MOTORS - THE NUMBER TO CALL IS 1-800-999-1009- doing this was a very important (ESSENTIAL!) step in the process. ALSO FILE A REPORT WITH THE NHTSA(National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) - you can find them on the web, just do a search.

I now have 11800 mi on my SOP EX 4wd
At less than 1000 mi I had my first crack - went to the dealer and the service manager said it was from a "rock" under the windshield wiper passenger side. I went to the sales manager at the dealership, told them about this web site which had already had lots of complaints about cracking windows. They decided to replace it this "one" time. The dealership has its own glass dealership and they fixed it. I had to take it back three times because of squeeks left after installation, they finally got tht fixed. About two months ago, I got another crack in almost the same area as the first one it has migrated all along the bottom of the shield. I am leaving it - I'm not going to damage my insurance rating with constantly putting in new windshields. The service manager did say, "Well look at the pitch of that winshield, what do you expect?" I advised him that I didn't design the car or changed it - I assured them that Honda knew how much pitch thtey had in theri windshield.

I may have to talk to my insurance agent about an adder to the policy to cover windshields - don't forget to file a report with NHTSA - everybody with windshield cracks needs to do so.

Well, 6500 miles into ownership, I got my crack.
It's right above the driver's side wiper post.

Pulled into a parking lot - no crack.

Came back out - crack about 5" long.

I did the "credit card" test myself to locate any pits before I got ahold of the dealer, and wouldn't you know it, I found one right where I expected to find it (dead center of the black strip at the bottom of the windshield).

After further examination (cleaned the window, had better light), I discovered that the "pit" wasn't what you'd expect from a rock hit. The "pit", if you can call it that is 1mm wide, and about 3 mm long. Strange thing about it is, it's almost exactly rectangular. Seems like a "Stress" fracture, that blew out the glass on the outside.

The crack on the inside of the window doesn't match exactly the outside because of the laminated windows. Seems as though the inside and outside "shifted" which cause the outside of the glass to blow out. I might be wrong, of course.


Here's my shot at a picture (Sorry about the reflection, it was a bright day!)

http://boombox.freeservers.com/crack%20from%206%20inches.JPG

I haven't had a chance to get ahold of my dealer yet, but have had the time to file my complaint with NHTSA. I'm calling American Honda next, then the dealer.

If I don't get the satisfaction I'm looking for, I'm printing off every complaint from this site, elementscrack.com, and anything else I can find, and the package is going to the State Attorney General (Minnesota).
Just for good measure, I WILL call one of the local news stations that does the investigative journalism.

Picked up my E 4/14. Less than 500 miles. On my way to work today, saw this little rock sailing through the air, almost one of those slow motion moments. I was surprised that, that small a rock would make a crack. Anyway it left a small crack (cover it with a dime) about 4 inches from the bottom of the glass, driver's side, about 6 inches in from the center. Since this crack was definitely from a rock. Didn't think of taking it to the dealer. I called my insurer. He looked up my coverage. Long story short, because of my coverage, they waved the deductible. He called a mobile repair place and told them I would call them. I did, set up a time for repair on Thur. They paged me about 15 mins later. They said they had a cancellation in my area and were wondering if they could do it today. The tech. came by during my lunch and fixed the small crack.
NOW just waiting to see if the fix stops the spread of the crack. Hope I made the right call about going through my insurance. But at this point, glad to have it fixed before I had to put anymore miles on the E.

I am a prospective buyer - have test driven twice,
but am holdingoff til it gets fixed.
maybe Honda glass is too thin, too stressed or not mounted right

Edward, when will you know when Honda has it fixed? Do you think they will issue a press release?

Life is short and full of risk. Don't let this minor issue cause you to miss owning a fine vehicle.

BTW, I saw four other Elements within 5 minutes today in Tucson.

I got great service from Power Honda Valencia, replaced the glass under warranty. No hassle, lip, or lies.

On my way to work in NH yesterday - just before getting off at my exit - the damn windshield snapped again! Now I had already had a small nick and a 'pit' from a couple other strikes, but this one came out of nowhere. And Guess what? SAME location as four other cracks - from underneath the passenger-side wiper. :x I tell ya, this is getting annoying.

Don't get me wrong folks, I love my Element - but this makes the SIXTH windshield since January of this year. My insurance company's been great about getting everything taken care of - but I'm sure their happy attitude will change when it comes time to write me a new policy next year.

So... my Auto Glass provider is coming out to take care of my claim this morning - and with any luck, this one will last more than two months!

Boat Drinks!

-D

That's absolutly outrageous.. You have displayed more patience than I could hope for. No lemon law there in MA.?? Man I'd be heading to my lawyers by now or parking that damn thing in the dealers window.. Maybe bold letters painted on both sidesstating. "Danger Area ,Flying Glass" with a few lemons . :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Danawj, have you tried fixing the source of your many cracked windows? There is probably a bump or stress source where your cracks originate. You may have already done this since your windshield has been out so many times, but a close inspection of that area seems to be in order.

[quote:61bc49de72=" "]Danawj, have you tried fixing the source of your many cracked windows? There is probably a bump or stress source where your cracks originate. You may have already done this since your windshield has been out so many times, but a close inspection of that area seems to be in order.[/quote:61bc49de72]

Were any of your windshield cracks dealt with by the dealer, or were they all insurance/glass-shop handled?

-brendan