Oprah turns obscure books into bestsellers. This is tremendous in the fight against puppy mills.


Winfrey Dedicates Show to Her Late Dog

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(AP)
CHICAGO (AP) - Oprah Winfrey plans to dedicate a show investigating abuses at puppy mills to her [Kocker] Spaniel, Sophie, who died last month from kidney failure.

"Sophie gave me 13 years of unconditional love. She was a true love in my life," Winfrey says on the broadcast scheduled to air Friday. (Advance remarks from the show were released Tuesday by Harpo Productions.)

The show features special correspondent Lisa Ling investigating puppy mills, which Ling calls "horrific" and "haunting."

Winfrey says the show is "for anybody anywhere who loves a dog, has ever loved a dog, or just cares about their basic right to humane treatment."

While Sophie was not a product of a puppy mill, and Winfrey's three current dogs were adopted from breeders, Winfrey says in the future she would look to adopt from an animal shelter.

"I would never, ever adopt another pet now without going to a shelter to do it. I am a changed woman after seeing this show,"she says.
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On the Net:
http://www.oprah.com (http://www.oprah.com/)

I'm not an Oprah fan. I have to say, she has from time to time used her show as a platform to raise important issues. I'm very happy to see someone of her stature devote attention to this issue.

I hope the focus of this thread won't degenerate into rescue v. breeder. Or mixed breed v. purebred.

Gidget's a purebred Samoyed from a couple who have four Samoyeds who have attained championships in confirmation, who sled race, do obedience, weight-pull competitions and agility competitions.

They are the model of responsible purebred dog afficianados who occasionally breed great Samoyeds (Gidget's parents had two litters before her mom was spade).

If you research dog rescue you will find that a tremendous amount of the work that goes into saving dogs is by purebred dog club members and breeders.

Responsible breeders are furious about puppy mills. Our club is currently trying to educate some fool (or creep, the jury is out on which applies) who obtained a Samoyed under false pretenses (a "pet quality" that was supposed to be spade, not bred, and now he's trying to obtain another to start breeding). There was a contract but it was an out-of-state transaction and enforcing it is not a piece of cake.

So count me as:

Pro-purebreed. Pro-rescue. Pro-responsible breeders. Love all dogs, mixed and pure.

Anti-puppy mill.

Pro-Oprah!

.....and Pro REI. :)

Can I be pro-therapy...? :oops: :rolleyes:

I'm with the consensus on this one. My wife got her old dog from a pet shop years ago, a mix who was getting too old to be "cute" and was due to be shipped to the pound in not too long. All our other pets are rescues. The cats are Paws & Claws special (the local humane society) and the Aussie is an abuse/neglect rescue from the Aussie Rescue & Placement Helpline (ARPH) :D

I wouldn't get a dog from a breeder. I have nothing against responsible breeders, but I have no desire to get into breeding. If I want another Aussie, I'll go to the rescue. :D

I just saw the preview for the Friday show...looks horrific. I will TiVo it, but not sure I'll be able to watch it...anything that Lisa Ling reports on is going to make me tear up for sure

i am afraid it will become what Hiker Chick says about breeder versus animal shelter. we will see. if everyone purchased a dog from a responsible breeder with reproduction agreements, animal shelters wouln't be as necessary in the first place.

A good breeder puts as much thought into the care and treatment of the animals they are breeding as they do into the care and treatment of their own kids. Anyone who doesn't, isn't a breeder, they're a puppy mill in miniature.

We adopted our cats from a no kill shelter and the humane society. We still go to the yearly fund raiser for the shelter and donate when we can.

Can I be pro-therapy...? :oops: :rolleyes:

I'm with the consensus on this one. My wife got her old dog from a pet shop years ago, a mix who was getting too old to be "cute" and was due to be shipped to the pound in not too long. All our other pets are rescues. The cats are Paws & Claws special (the local humane society) and the Aussie is an abuse/neglect rescue from the Aussie Rescue & Placement Helpline (ARPH) :D

I wouldn't get a dog from a breeder. I have nothing against responsible breeders, but I have no desire to get into breeding. If I want another Aussie, I'll go to the rescue. :D


Having done plenty of rescue (incl owning 5 "undreedemable" rescue dogs myself), I'd say that supporting the responsible breeders is the way to go. As somebody said, if we supported responsible breeders, animal shelters would cease to exist. Instead, folks want cheap, fast, or cute fast. Thoughtless buyers go to the first place they can grab a dog. There is always a pet shop, puppy mill, or careless backyard breeder ready to meet the demand. Caring little for the placement or the quality of what they breed.

The BIGGEST PUPPY MILLER OUT THERE IS THE HUMANE SOCIETY ITSELF!!!!!!!!!! They continue to propogate the problem by themselves irresponsibly placing and even breeding at times.

Aw, poor Oprah. :-( The show opened with a video her staff made of her recently departed dog, Sophie. And she cried. Not just teary eyes. Crying. She's a bonafide dog person. I can't even listen to someone talk about their dying or departed dog without tearing up. Happened one night last week when a friend and I were walking our dogs and ran into someone in the neighborhood whose 16-year old dog died the previous week. Always brings back the crushing grief and sorrow I felt when my dogs died.

She was prompted to do the show because an anti-puppy mill activist bought a billboard urging Oprah to do a show on puppy mills. Kudos to him.

99% of pet store dogs come from puppy mills.

Doesn't surprise me or probably most reading this thread but if the public awareness was greater these pet shops would be out of business.

These puppy mill breeders should be in prison with Michael Vick. The protracted torture of a puppy mill is at least as evil as dog fighting.

:mad:

Thank you, Lisa Ling, for braving the horror of doing this investigative journalism. In one day, Ling and the people she was with rescued over 30 dogs. She says the horror of these puppy mill dogs is "incomprehensible." Many can't

The highest concentration of puppy mills is in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

It is associated with the Amish. They don't see it as inhumane. They see dogs as "livestock." [these assertions are in the Lisa Ling report]

Well, I no longer think the Amish are quaint and I will not buy any Amish products.

In Pennsylvania it is legal to shoot your dog. (Is it illegal in any state to shoot your dog?)

An estimated 10,000 puppy mills in the United States.

"No responsible breeder sells their dog to a pet store."

Sales are increasingly done on-line.

A lot of the puppy mill mother dogs have tumors. All they do is reproduce.

Their entire lives in wire cages. They stand on wire their entire lives. Can barely walk. Have never run. No affection. Never been petted. Don't have names.

140 puppies from one dog.

Hammer pipes down their throats to damage their vocal chords to keep them quiet.

700 dogs in one puppy mill.

Skin grows over their chains. Saturated in urine.

I'm crying.

4,000,000 American dogs and cats are euthanized every year.

Bill, the rescue guy whose billboard prompted the show, and Oprah, are pro-responsible breeder. Because responsible breeders interview prospective owners. Responsible breeders make you sign a contract.

[ more in a subsequent post ]

[ more of my notes from the show ]

30-50% of shelter dogs are purebreeds.

Fort Worth, Texas, animal shelter took in 24,000 last year. 4 of 50 dogs taken in at the Fort Worth shelter are adopted. Dogs are evaluated as they come in and if they are marked with an "E" they are euthanized within 24 hours, unless they are adopted in that time.

God. They are showing the euthanization of a dog. A white and black mix. They weigh him to calculate the dosage. It will take 3-5 minutes.

He's dead. He and dozens of others were dumped in a landfill the next day.

3 of the dogs in that shelter were adopted by Oprah staffers.

They're dying because Americans are not spaying and neutering their pets.

Men are often resistant to having their male dogs neutered -- equating their male dogs being fixed with their own virility!!:mad: This had been my observation in conversations with guys and with their wives who often encounter resistance from their husbands in getting male dogs fixed.

Puppy mills concentrated in the Midwest. Also Pennsylvania and Ohio. [and a lot of other states]

Puppy Mill owners laugh at the rescue people. It's a different mentality. Dogs are "like an ear of corn."


http://www2.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200804/tows_past_20080404.jhtml?promocode=HP21

The highest concentration of puppy mills is in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

It is associated with the Amish. They don't see it as inhumane. They see dogs as "livestock." [these assertions are in the Lisa Ling report]

I won't comment on the whole thing because I don't need to be extremely angry right now. Mistreating animals gets me very very very angry.

However, this part does make me curious. Any farmer with livestock (not feedlot) knows that the better you treat your animals, the better they'll do. Most family farmers take great care of their livestock, giving them everything they need to be happy and healthy. Doesn't matter what the livestock is - cows, pics, ducks, horses, or dogs. If you don't take care of them then you belong in the same group as animal cruelty arrestees.

I'll comment more later when I have time to be mad...:mad:

Hi, Twilight. I was going to mute the puppy mill videos but Oprah urged viewers at the outset to not turn away from the problem and to watch and listen.

So I did.

The video was pretty tame. My anticipation was worse. The video wasn't that graphic so hopefully people who were not already familiar with the puppy mill horror sat through and watched, listened and learned.

Lisa Ling's narrative was graphic but those of us who are familiar with puppy mill carnage are aware of that already. Others were no doubt shocked to learn of the existence of puppy mills and their evil and the unknowing customers of pet stores who support the puppy mills.

Thank you, Oprah, for drawing attention to the plight of these animals.

... Any farmer with livestock (not feedlot) knows that the better you treat your animals, the better they'll do. Most family farmers take great care of their livestock, giving them everything they need to be happy and healthy. Doesn't matter what the livestock is - cows, pics, ducks, horses, or dogs. If ...

Thank you Twi for voicing a concern that I had with the original comment. Responsible farmers do not abuse their animals. I 'm not sure generalizing about Amish is very fair.

[B]They're dying because Americans are not spaying and neutering their pets.

Exactly. At least 10 families on our street have male dogs [SIZE="6"]Not one of them has been neutered!!

We had to guard our female like the gold at Fort Knox until her spay surgery. We even have neighbors complain to us because their intact male dogs freak out when we walk her and she is fixed now.

I'm a man and will get ANY dog male or female neutered or spayed - no "surprise puppies" here.

Thank you Twi for voicing a concern that I had with the original comment. Responsible farmers do not abuse their animals. I 'm not sure generalizing about Amish is very fair.

I grew up around farmers. Good farmers treat their animals like pets. Unfortunately the bulk of livestock today is raised in ginormous feedlots :sad:

[B]They're dying because Americans are not spaying and neutering their pets.

Exactly. At least 10 families on our street have male dogs [SIZE="6"]Not one of them has been neutered!!

We had to guard our female like the gold at Fort Knox until her spay surgery. We even have neighbors complain to us because their intact male dogs freak out when we walk her and she is fixed now.

I'm a man and will get ANY dog male or female neutered or spayed - no "surprise puppies" here.
Spay/neuter is the best single thing we can do-I work with a local feral cat alliance that traps/spays/neuters then releases. The work is rewarding but takes years to accomplish colony reductions. It DOES work however, San Francisco has made great headway. I have a stupid friend (told him so too) that lost his first Sheltie to prostate cancer, now years later, he just lost his second Sheltie to the same thing. These dogs were not bred, it's just his own masculinity he worries about....

I'm not pro-Oprah, and I'm not anti-Oprah. I appreciate that she is a HUGE influence in America and I'm grateful she is bringing awareness to the puppy mill issue.

I'm not necessarily anti-breeder (my golden came from a very reputable breeder) but I don't think I will ever buy from one again. There are just too many dogs in shelters that need help, and to me its stupid to contribute to the over population problem by buying from breeders. Not to mention for every great breeder that works his/her ass off to do the right thing there are probably four backyard breeders in it just for the money who don't care for the dogs.

I'm not necessarily anti-breeder (my golden came from a very reputable breeder) but I don't think I will ever buy from one again. There are just too many dogs in shelters that need help, and to me its stupid to contribute to the over population problem by buying from breeders. Not to mention for every great breeder that works his/her ass off to do the right thing there are probably four backyard breeders in it just for the money who don't care for the dogs.

YAY! I'm involved in rescue and see the animals that get put down every day in So. Cal. I'm hoping everyone feels the way you do now. It may take a while for the puppy mills to realize the drop in business and maybe the laws won't change right away, but it's a start just to have people thinking go to a shelter or rescue group. Every breed has a rescue group so you can find any type of dog you are looking for.

YAY! I'm involved in rescue and see the animals that get put down every day in So. Cal. I'm hoping everyone feels the way you do now. It may take a while for the puppy mills to realize the drop in business and maybe the laws won't change right away, but it's a start just to have people thinking go to a shelter or rescue group. Every breed has a rescue group so you can find any type of dog you are looking for.

Exactly we got our Aussie through the Aussie Rescue & Placement Helpline :D Every breed has a breed-specific rescue, usually run in association with the breed's official club.

Exactly we got our Aussie through the Aussie Rescue & Placement Helpline :D Every breed has a breed-specific rescue, usually run in association with the breed's official club.

Yes, the rescues are an excellent resource. There are several regional and state Samoyed rescues around the nation.

I'm not pro-Oprah, and I'm not anti-Oprah. I appreciate that she is a HUGE influence in America and I'm grateful she is bringing awareness to the puppy mill issue.

I'm not necessarily anti-breeder (my golden came from a very reputable breeder) but I don't think I will ever buy from one again. There are just too many dogs in shelters that need help, and to me its stupid to contribute to the over population problem by buying from breeders. Not to mention for every great breeder that works his/her ass off to do the right thing there are probably four backyard breeders in it just for the money who don't care for the dogs.

Have you ever thought that you are actually contributing to the backyard breeders by "servicing" their unwanted pets? It is so easy for them to sit back and literally laugh at rescue efforts and shelters. They made their money, off they go, while the rest of those kind hearts sweep up after them. I would much rather support a reputable breeder who I KNOW does not contribute to overpopulation by taking their offspring back! I, for one, can account for EVERY SINGLE PUPPY I have ever bred--including those pups bred off my studs. How many of those shelter dogs have breeders like that??? And you don't believe WE ARE WORTH SUPPORTING? Give me a break. Give me a frickin' break....

Irresponsibly placeing dogs in the name of rescue is no more supportable than irresponsibly placing dogs for the sake of money. The Humane Society and many of these shelters are just as guilty as any puppy miller of that crime. I know, because I have worked in shelters, with rescue, etc for over thirty years now.

When cities like L.A. pass mandatory spay/neuter laws, they not only take down stupid back yard breeders, puppy miller, and the like. Unfortunately they take down the truly dedicated efforts of many people devoted to healthy, well-tempered dogs as well. They further limit the gene pools from which those dogs may be bred, making it even harder to assure healthy dogs in the future.

These "spay/neuter" and "save the rescue" words all sound so good. They may be quite well-intentioned. But blanket treatments are poor substitute for real education, and real thoughtful solutions. I think a city or county should have to prove that somebody has been negligent or careless in their breeding before they can require them to be altered. These dogs are private property, and the government should not tell us what we have to do with them unless there is a good reason to. For example--a breeder that produces dogs that have ended up abandoned in animal shelters with their knowledge, a breeder that produces more than 2 or 3 dogs that end up abandoned in shelters--whether or not they have knowledge--or a dog owner who keeps unaltered pets that are found loose in the street without extranuating circumstances. That is irresponsible, and those are the folks who should be punished. Please don't take down the truly dedicated breeders unless you really want NO DOGS at all. There are times when I think that is exactly where we are headed. Would be a shame, dogs add so much to our society and touch so many people's lives in so many wonderful ways. Let's not forget that.

Not sure I am following your argument Dogbox.

Around here. as in many other areas, the SPCA is involved in prosecuting people (including backyard breeders) who treat their animals inhumanely. They also rescue and adopt the animals that can be saved when such operations are shut down.

Aren't these animals worth considering if you want a pet?

I don't see how adopting or rescuing dogs is encouraging the problem as long as inhumane breeders are prosecuted.

I do agree, however, that getting dogs from responsible breeders is one way of encouraging people to think about where their puppies come from.

i agree with dogbox on this one. if dogs were obtained only from reputible breeder with reproduction agreements/contracts then no irresponsible dog owners could get one. Imagine a world where there were no shelters, simply because it would be such an upmost privlege to own a dog.

Spay/neuter is the best single thing we can do-I work with a local feral cat alliance that traps/spays/neuters then releases. The work is rewarding but takes years to accomplish colony reductions. It DOES work however, San Francisco has made great headway. I have a stupid friend (told him so too) that lost his first Sheltie to prostate cancer, now years later, he just lost his second Sheltie to the same thing. These dogs were not bred, it's just his own masculinity he worries about....

No it is not the best thing we can do. Not in all cases. I am a VERY responsible breeder. I can tell you exactly where each of the pups I have EVER bred is right now. Including those produced off my stud dog. Mandatory spay & neuter as recently enacted in Los Angeles is very detrimental to those of us concerned about the health and temperments of quality dogs. It severely limits our gene pools and also stops ALL breeders, responsible or not, dead in their tracks. I placed a very nice dog in a home a few years back--they live in L.A. They are a wonderful, wonderful home. He is unneutered because his genes are fantastic. I have all breeding rights, but this enables him to live as the "one and only" canine family member, instead of me trying to keep more animals than I can honestly give great care to. I would not place him in this home if I was not 100% certain these folks would handle him responsibly--after 4 years they have more than proved that they do. We will show him each year--just to save him from being hacked by the dog nazis in los angeles now that they have imposed that upon us. We also pay about 10 times the license fee as anybody out there. We will do it. But to say that every dog needs to be spayed or neutered is ridiculous. I would go to great lengths to fight for the balls on this dog! I also live with FOUR unaltered animals. Frankly, I don't see them harming society in any way, so I think these governments and anti-breeding nazis ought to just shut up and leave us alone. We pay our license fees, we breed responsibly, what the hell else do they want? When they find MY PUPS polluting their shelters, then they can talk about it. I hate nazi government that fails to do the job it was supposed to be doing (i.e., enforcing responsible dog ownership and animal control), and then punishes EVERYBODY for it. And don't tell me about rescue--I've been picking up the slack for the a-holes puppy millers and backyard breeders for about 30 years now with rescue. It bothers me to hear everybody think they should go rescue and not support responsible breeders. When breeders such as me are not contributing to this overpopulation. If you really care about animals, why not support the folks who REALLY put their money where their mouth is and simply take back any dog they sell? Under ANY circumstances? Instead, you make it sooo easy for these millers and back yard breeders to just keeping collecting the cash while the pups end up in shelters and we all run around trying to clean up after their stupidity. What REALLY bothers me is our local humane society that places animals without mandatory spay/neuter. Hypocrites. They even placed a pregnant bitch dalmation mix with a co-worker of mine and required her to whelp the pups so they could then take all the pups and sell them for money. Hypocrites. The pups, of course, were sold without spaying or neuter. Hypocrites. And with NO health checks. Hypocrites. Who is the irresponsible breeder in this case??? The Humane Society. Hypocrites. I love dogs and believe that breeding responsibly and placing responsibly is the answer. Not government intervention. There are a lot of breeders out there like me. Please support them and you will be doing more for overpopulation than you can imagine.

Amen, Dogbox!!

A worthwhile public service announcement would educate prospective dog owners on the horrors of puppy mills and how they can avoid contributing to their profitability.

:)


P.S. I have been contributing to the DC Humane Society but will take a closer look at exactly what they're doing.

true dogbox, the minute government steps in to mandate yet another dicipline, it is already too late

I have to agree that 'responsible' breeders are the best way to add a canine companion to your family. However, we all know that is not nearly the norm in the world.

'Pet Store' pups are by far the most common source of dogs, followed closely by the 'Parking Lot Sale' variety... both of which fall into the 'questionable breeder' - also know as "back yard breeder". As long as these guys have a market, there will always be a glut of dogs, hence, a need for shelters, and rescues.

I'm not so hyped up on 'mandatory' spay/neuter but I do think the education needs to be better done than it presently is. Maybe the whole Oprah thing is a step in that direction. I can't say exactly - because I haven't seen the show.

But I have to say, a blanket statement about the Humane Society being the cause is as callous and irresponsible as mandatory spay/neuter. Granted there may well be Humane Societies that are causing problems, but as a whole, that is simply not the case.

Responsible breeding needs to be practiced by everyone, humane societies, rescues, dog breeders, and yes even the family dogs.... :-|

As long as there is a need, I will continue to work rescue... I'm not going to exclude a dog because (s)he was a product (or source) of a backyard breeder. It just isn't right in my book.

for sure BH, there needs to be a combo of everything working together in the same direction. it is a matter of education, if everyone loved and respected and helped animals as much as you do there wouldn't be a problem at all.

I have a contract that accepts any unwanted dog back that I have bred (and I insist anybody who uses my stud have the same clause). My contract also contains a clause that I will SUE ANYBODY if I find their dog has been placed in an animal shelter. And should I ever need to enforce that clause, I am plenty ready to do so. I love every pup I breed as if it were my own child, and I care about them their entire lives. Folks who have bought from me know that--they send me pictures, emails, etc. I also believe my reputation as a responsible breeder is damaged if any of my pups would end up in shelters--so they WILL pay the price when I sue them.

I have never had anybody come close to needing me to enforce either of these clauses, but they are there anyway, because I have heard of too many truly responsible breeders being "burned" by liars who come to buy pups. Oddly, however, the courts have actually made it very hard for us to win these cases. It takes a LOT of money to win these cases, but I would throw every dime I have at it if I had to.

Re rescue, I have owned MANY rescue dogs myself. Usually the ones I took into rescue only to find it took years to break poor behavior or health problems. By then, they were mine. As hard as it is to face this reality--there are many dogs in some locales needing homes (esp big cities like L.A., where I worked for both rescue organizations and the animal control department). We do not have resources nor homes for all of them. Why does the humane society and all these rescue groups think that ALL these dogs need to be saved? I have seen them place dogs with cancer that need very expensive treatments. Why not euthanize those dogs and place the good healthy ones with the best temperments--thereby utilizing their limited financial and placement resources optimally? Of course it is hard to look into a dog's eyes and say "you aren't worth saving". I have personally had to hold litters of pups being euthanized. But at that point, it is too late. Decisions, including some very hard decisions, must be made.

On a more positive note, we do have some cities in the United States--Seattle for instance, that have actually run out of dogs to place, and have imported adoptable pets into their shelters from other cities. Our rescue organization has actually had to fight off the Humane Society who refused to let us place about 20 animals of our breed that were pulled away from a puppy miller. They insisted on placing them because they wanted THE MONEY. We wanted to place them, because we felt we knew the breed and could better screen potential homes (ours is a very high energy breed--often not suitable for pet homes). Nope, they wouldn't give us the pups. They knew they could get good money for purebreds and that seemed to matter more to them than having volunteers who knew the breed best place these animals. HYPOCRITES. I could go on with Humane Society stories for a long time, but I will stop. Suffice it to say, I have spent my entire life involved in rescue, breeding, and dog competitions. As a youngster my family bred show dogs, I breed show dogs, and we rescue A LOT.

If only we could model breeders and rescues after DOGBOX...:D

I've also seen the humane society turn away breed rescues because they want the $$. Very very very sad situation :sad:

DOGBOX-

If all breeders were like you we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place!

I won't buy from a breeder again because I can't justify buying a dog when there is one sitting in a cage 3 days away from being put down because he has a cold, or because someone dropped him off because they didn't want their "property" anymore.

Not to mention that I don't think I ever want to go through early puppyhood again. Puppies are a LOT of work, as you well know.

So yes, 'rescuing' a dog makes a lot of sense to me.


So does spaying and neutering - here's why I believe that:
A young couple had a year old 'intact' female. They didn't have anything against spaying her, they just hadn't gotten around to it. The couple had to move in with his parents for a while, taking the dog with them. His parents had a 10 year old epileptic, neurotic mutt who had been tied to a tree in the backyard for years because he figured out how to jump the 8ft fence (ok, epileptic, neurotic and intelligent mutt). His parents also "had never gotten around to neutering the dog". They left both dogs in the backyard all day while they were at work. All of the sudden there were a litter of puppies with no homes... a litter of epileptic puppies. Oh wait, this story gets better:

There were 7 puppies in all - My sweet Ganja, Allman and Lulu who stayed with the young couple and their mom Yoda, Yogi who went to a brother, two males who went with other friends, and a stillborn.

Ganja is still here, Allman escaped three weeks ago during a storm and they never 'got around to looking for her'. Lulu is still here, Yoda is still here, but the young couple has since had a baby and can't afford to feed the dogs as they should be fed so they are emaciated. Yogi, who went with a brother is alive, although kept outside no matter if its 20 degrees out there or 100. The 15 year old epileptic neurotic, intelligent mutt Petey was left outside with Yogi (since the parents of the young couple didn't want him one day) on a 20 degree day in January, jumped the fence and ended up drowning to death in the neighbors pond.

That young couple found a ridgeback mix on the side of the highway one snowy day in December four years ago, before they had the baby...she weighed 8 pounds when they found her and was 6 weeks old. Someone had tied her up there to a front gate of a ranch. They haven't gotten around to spaying her either, and she weighs about 50lbs when she should weigh about 75 and sometimes she doesn't even go into heat anymore.

This is just part of the reason I believe spaying and neutering is really the best option we have at this point.

There are lot of options. Rescuing is one, responsible breeding is another. Obviously, the folks you describe are not "breeders", they are just stupid people who didn't alter their animals. When we talk about "breeders", I hardly consider them in the class. I know stupid people stories, and I know stupid rescue stories. Problem is, that poor sorry eyed dog you rescued out of that shelter will be replaced by another one the next day. I have been doing this THIRTY YEARS. The stream has never ended, though I do believe it has slowed down in many areas. My goal is to stop the stream. I really don't believe spaying and neutering every dog as the dog nazis believe is the solution. The Humane Society essentially wants to control dog breeding in this country. Sorry, dogs are PROPERTY--they are not children or human beings. I love dogs, train dogs, and breed dogs. I have great respect for their intelligence and affections. But they are still my PROPERTY--I paid for them, I bought them, I maintain them, and I own them. The government had better back off in interfering with my PROPERTY,

There are lot of options. Rescuing is one, responsible breeding is another. Obviously, the folks you describe are not "breeders", they are just stupid people who didn't alter their animals. When we talk about "breeders", I hardly consider them in the class. I know stupid people stories, and I know stupid rescue stories. Problem is, that poor sorry eyed dog you rescued out of that shelter will be replaced by another one the next day. I have been doing this THIRTY YEARS. The stream has never ended, though I do believe it has slowed down in many areas. My goal is to stop the stream. I really don't believe spaying and neutering every dog as the dog nazis believe is the solution. The Humane Society essentially wants to control dog breeding in this country. Sorry, dogs are PROPERTY--they are not children or human beings. I love dogs, train dogs, and breed dogs. I have great respect for their intelligence and affections. But they are still my PROPERTY--I paid for them, I bought them, I maintain them, and I own them. The government had better back off in interfering with my PROPERTY,

I agree, they aren't breeders, they are just stupid, and a good example of why people who just have a dog as a pet should spay and neuter them. There are a lot more stupid people out there just like them too.

I realize Pepper was replaced by another dog in need of a good home the next day and that it won't ever end, no matter what we do to try to make it stop. I just won't buy from a breeder again. Breeder v. Rescue beliefs aside, it makes no sense to spend hundreds on a dog when I can adopt one of the same breed at a fraction of the cost.

I don't view my dogs as my children (I hate kids) or as humans (because they aren't and never will be), but I do respect that they are living creatures and I have taken them into my custody and am responsible for giving them a decent life. I don't think the government should get involved (I kind of hate the government too), but I don't view my dogs in the same category as I view my stereo or living room furniture. That stuff is my property. My dogs are my companions and guardians (in the words of my crazy tweaked out neighbor "they keep the criminals away"). Its a two way street, they take care of me and I take care of them.