I just changed my manual transmission fluid this past weekend. The shifting was getting a little notchy especially going from 1st to 2nd. I've always heard great things about Redline's MTL (MT90 to be exact), so I decided to give it a try. I got the oil from OG Racing from Manassas VA for $7.75 per quart (I couldn't find it any cheaper). The actual fluid swap was very easy. Just find the drain plug at the bottom of the transmission housing and remove it with a 1/4" ratchet. To fill the transmission with the new fluid, I used a Sta-Lube pump, it made the job much easier and less messy. The manual transmission took exactly 2 quarts of oil.

At first I did not see a big improvement in the shifting....I was disappointed. But after a couple of days, the shifting has improved a lot. The engagement are smoother and more positive with a "snick-snick" feel. If you are having problems with shifting, I would strongly recommend the Redline MTL or MT90. You'll enjoying shifting a lot more afterwards.

I thought Honda transmissions ONLY use proprietary Honda Transmission Fluid. I was always told that using non-Honda tranny fluid compromises the life expectancy.

8) Ed

That rule is for automatic transmissions, if I remember my fluids right. But you can still buy non-Honda-branded transmission fluid that meets their otherwise unusual spec. The right stuff will say "For Honda Applications" on the label. I think the power steering fluid is also unique to Honda.

George is talking about the manual transmission, and only slightly confused the issue by calling it "fluid". In the manual trans it's mostly just good 'ol oil. Red Line makes a really good product, although I think you will get similar results with pretty much any synthetic formulation. It's a good thing to do, especially in a Honda manual - the 1->2 shift was a noticable weakness in the four other Hondas I've owned! Crunch! :shock:

I thought Honda transmissions ONLY use proprietary Honda Transmission Fluid .

Don't Honda manual transmissions just use 5w30 motor oil? The old Accords used to, maybe they changed that...

You can use just about most oils on the market for manual transmisions. Heck you could use ATF if you are really in a bind. The key thing to remember with manual transmission is to change the oil often.

Transmission fluid is the most overlooked in all cars and most people tend to forget that the transmission uses oil. I usually reccomend to my customers to change the transmission fluid every 5000 miles. a manual transmission wil always have metallic particles floating around and you do not want it clogging up the oiling passages on the shafts.

There are a few transmission fluids on the market that are really good besides the redline. In fact GM has the synchromesh that works well with manual transmissions.

>I usually reccomend to my customers to change the transmission fluid every 5000 miles.

You are kidding, aren't you? :shock:

No I wasn't kidding. 5000 miles is usually for guys that drive the car really hard.

I usually use the GM synchromesh and change it about 7000 miles. what I found is that the much thicker oil especially with the cold winters in michigan, will not allow the transmission to shift too smoothly when it is too cold.

Remember the manual transmission does not have a filter to filter out any metallic particles and only relies on a small magnet inside the transmission to catch as much as it can.

Another thing I have seen bearing failure in some honda transmissions due to lack of lubrication from extended idling. The input shaft (the shaft where the power gets sent in from the engine) sits high up in the transmission and does not get a lot of oil unless the car is driven as a manual transmission does not have a pump unlike the automatics. If you can avoid it do not allow thw car to idle for extended periods (over 5 -7 minutes) as it will lead to premature failure of the bearings.

Interesting. I have four factory service manuals, three owners manuals, and 30 years of car repair experience - including rebuilding transmissions - that all say you change manual transmission oil at 60,000 miles; 30,000 or 45,000 in severe service conditions depending on make and model.

I am absolutely stymied trying to envision where you came up with 5000 miles. Transmissions aren't engines. You change the oil in engines frequently (and they have filters) because the oil is contaminated by combustion byproducts... not because the oil "wears out". 5000 miles? Frankly? That's preposterous.

Obviously, let's choose to disagree on this, Ming. I'm only responding so that others following this thread understand that there is very strong disagreement here among apparently experienced servicers, and that they need to consult their factory servicing guide if not their own primary car service provider.

I don't drive my Element very hard, so I am not expecting to change it every 7K miles. Myabe I'll compromise and do it every 20K. In all of my other cars, when I change the transmission oil, it always looks to be clear honey color. I guess you can't really tell if the oil is broken down.

Ming, thanks for the heads up about excessive idling, I never considered that. I will try not to get stuck in traffic too much :-)

Redline claims that "Many gear oils, engine oils, and ATFs are too slippery for proper synchro engagement." I don't know if that is true, but I can certainly tell you that my transmission does shift better now. I will follow up in a week or so to let you all know if it gets any better.

OK this is a joke
Had manuals for ages never drive slushboxes - never changed transmission oil for any other reason than leaks.

It just doent get hot enough to break down the oil and theres too damn much of it to burn up or degrade.

And shavings? HUH had Mazda MR52 transmission for 200,000 miles and I had a touch time finding any shine in the oil even after I settled it for a week.

The folks who sell oil or service need to sell more so they justify their desires this way
This it total BS that they should be changed every 5,000 miles and the only reason many manuals say to change the oil is to make sure it hasnt all leaked out

Redline claims that "Many gear oils, engine oils, and ATFs are too slippery for proper synchro engagement."
True. Some synchro designs are (overly) dependent on a certain amount of controlled friction to help the dogs match speed. If the lube is too slick (especially if too thin) it's easy to overrun the slip ring during a fast shift. So the oil has to be a magic balance of heavy viscosity to stick to surfaces that aren't immersed all the time and also create enough drag for the synchros, yet thin enough to flow everywhere it's needed and not turn it into a box full of molasses in cold weather.

I would consider a really good synthetic like Red Line good for the life of the vehicle. Some of the manufacturers are now using synthetic gear oils in things like differentials and transfer cases, and - by gosh, it's in the book! - they are lifetime lubricants, only to be touched if contaminated.

I am only posting my experiences with manual transmissions I deal adn have dealt with. Most of them are Mitsubishi Honda and Toyota.

Most people I rebuild and modify transmissions for usually drive their cars really hard. Also I have torn down various transmissions of various miieages varying from brand new to 250,000 miles. All of the brand new transmissions that come from Mitsubishi which I have torn down are dirty and gritty. They look good on the outside but when you drain the oil it is really dirty on the inside. Transmissions with more miles i.e 15000 miles and up have a lot of "paste" consisting of metallic particulates which are compacted in crevices in the transmission not allowing proper oil flow in certian sections.

I change the transmission oil often is mainly to keep oiling passages and holes within the transmission clean. I am not trying to prove anything here so don't get me wrong :D

Maybe I'm just living in the past, but since when did auto manufacturers start putting engine oil in the manual transmissions? All the cars I've had used gear oil in there. Gear oil, especially synthetic gear oil can go a LONG time without changing! It's a very good lubricant for that purpose and just needs checking the level every now and then and changing at 100,000 miles or so. Are we talking about regular engine oil in the manual transmissions now? If so, I can see that it would need changing much more often as it's a very different lubricant than gear oil.

Cheers, JTTELE

There is absolutely no reason to change the fluid this often. The posters of those comments need a little education. Do a little reading at www.bobistheoilguy.com

This is from my owner's manual. "If Honda MTF is not available, you may use an SAE 10W-30 or 10W-40 viscosity motor oil with the API Certification seal that says "FOR GASOLINE ENGINES" as a temporary replacement. However motor oil does not contain the proper additive, and continued use can cause stiffer shifting. Replace as soon as it is convienient." The manual also recommends 60K miles replacement of the MTF.

So that is a change from my '88 Civic where the owner's manual actually recommended motor oil.

With several Hondas including two w/over 300K and one with 400K. All manuals. He uses straight 30 weight non detergent motor oil on all of them. I'm doing mine today for the first time at 50K. I just did the rear diff oil and it made reverse easy to get into again. I opted for the Honda stuff myself. I wanted to find some pics of the job.

ET

First is locating the bolts is easy but they aren't so easy to get to. They are on the left side where the tranny is and near where the black crossmember is parallel to the front wheel. Because of this both bolts are hard to get to. The drain bolt uses a 3/8" drive the filler bolt a 17MM (on my 2006) You should use a wrench , a crowfoot would be better, as even a shallow well socket and rachet hit the crossmember when trying to unloosen the filler bolt. The drain bolt is easier. Also on a standard rachet only about the bottom two inches of the rachet are gripable when trying because of the crossmember in the way. I had to use my foot to kick the ratchet and get the filler bolt loose. Everything else went pretty smooth. I want to also add that at 50K the fluid change made a nice difference. Much less notchiness amd smoother shifting. I wish I did it 10K ago.

ET

i changed the stock fluid at 25k and it was very dirty and smelt burnt.

I put in a synthetic and have been checking it every 10k. it is still crystal clear and smells like oil at 75k. should i change it just because or should i wait until it looks dirty?

I change the tranny oil in my galant vr4 every 7.5k miles. i beat the $hit out of that thing. 25psi clutch dumps and stuff. 5k tranny oil change seems excessive, but I will add that for a person making two or three times as much power as the equipment was originally intended, it's not a horrible idea. I've used redline, GM synchromesh, royal purple...whatever. it comes out black. heat treated for sure.

jcasaccio- your reading from perspective of a factory equipped car. make more power=way more maint. true story. not trying to single you out, but yes, it IS needed.

no way does a stock element need that kind of maint. A buddy club short shifter, greddy weighted knob, and bearings in the cable end=sex

I remember when I used to race (Miata and S2000), they guys would recommend changing transmission oil every 5k miles or at least 10k. I even saw a video of a Honda/Mugen tech in Japan recommending that the transmission oil be changed that often - if the car is raced.

The reason being that the oil isn't filtered and it is constantly heated without any cooling. This was the recommendation for cars being raced on the weekends at the tracks. It definitely helped in my Miata and S2000.

That being said. I never race my Element. I don't think being a 4wd affects my transmission that much. So I'm gonna change my transmission oil every 24k - 30k miles or so, just because I'm anal like that. Whether or not it helps, I don't know. If Honda says 60k, or 100k, or 200k, then you could probably get away with whatever they recommend.

5000 seems perfectly reasonable for a race-driven track car. My race driver friend who has both a Lotus Elise and a race-prepped '86 Porsche 944 roughly follows this on both his race vehicles.

For daily drivers, even spirited, that's way way overkill. 20K is the soonest I'd even think of looking at it in a regular road vehicle.

For the gearheads out there:

Any take on adding a bit of Lucas heavy duty oil or synthetic oil stabilizer to the M/T oil when changing?

well, those intervals just seem insane for a daily driver.

the OP said that they changed at 25k and could 'feel a difference in smoother shifting'

just for an opposing view: i changed mine with honda MTF at 90k miles, and it feels exactly the same, suggesting the existing MTF was just fine. and the drained old MTF looked as good as new.


so my experience suggests that you are just wasting time and money with short change intervals on a normal use element.