Hello to all, this is a great site!

Edit-- I made this post before I was aware that I may have been watching a lowered Element, so take that into account when you read it. I apologize for raising concerns that may not be warranted-- Bob Norris (wigglyline)

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I'm not an Element owner but I like them and watch for them on the road. Last weekend, an Element pulled onto I-5 in front of me and I had a chance to watch it for a few minutes. It was heavily loaded, 4 people plus a rooftop carrier. What drew my attention to it was the pronounced negative camber this load put on the rear wheels (bottoms of the rear tires were splayed outward at a noticeable angle relative to the front tires). It reminded me of how an old swing-axle VW Bug looked under load. I would not be comfortable driving around with the rear tires at that much of an angle to the road. I suspect this is the reason for the relatively low cargo weight rating for the Element, the suspension simply isn't set up for it.

This is not intended as a slam, and doesn't change my interest in the vehicle as I still want to get one- it just verifies Honda's stated cargo weight limit for the vehicle (675 lbs) and we should respect that.

Good luck to everyone and I hope to join the ranks soon....

Great observation. Thanks for bringing it up. I look forward to comments from the suspensionally literate among us.

I have seen lowered Elements with serious negative camber, are you sure it wasn't already lowered some?

I think my E rides better with four people in it

I loaded a 1k Pound generator in mine today.... Why I do not know, work demands I guess :? . But it seemed to ride ok . There were two guys in there as well my passenger 215# and me 185 #. I drove approximately 15 miles this way. Yes I know I do need to go on a diet.

Jesse

It's possible the Element I saw was lowered, hadn't thought of that. But wouldn't the lowering cause negative camber in the front wheels as well?

With the new MacPherson strut suspension design, it usually does not affect the front camber as much as it used to with previous Honda double wishbone design. I also know from experience because I had a RSX Type-S that I cut the springs on immediately after I bought it because when they first came out (July 2001) they did not have lowering springs or coilovers available at the time. I ended up severely needing a rear camber kit, mainly due to tire wear issues. The handling and ride did not seem to be affected adversely.

The Element employs the same suspension design as the RSX and the current Civics. If you saw a lowered Element without any camber kits, yes it is possible that only the rear wheels would appear to be camber'd in.

Oh, and my observations of the Element under heavy load (4 people = 850 lbs.) are:

- Throttle response is negatively affected. (Especially with the A/C on.)
- Braking distance and brake pedal effort increases.
- Suspension travel over bumps and dips is lessened, resulting in a "Cadillac-like" ride
- No effects observed while cornering on the streets or changing lanes on the highway.

Just loaded twenty 40 lb. bags of soil bought at our local Home Depot in my E... with 800 lb. of extra weight I noticed the "caddy" ride characteristics but really did not make me scared to be driving at 65-70 mph... a little extra sway in the wind, wish I had thought to check the camber on the rear but did not notice it as I did check for shock compression and it appeard to be fairly level with that plus my 185 lb in front.

Hey, so I just want to let everyone know, in 2001, I made the unfortunate mistake of spending $42K on a ML-320 after being bamboozled by the sales tactics of "high resale value", among others.

$22,000 and 2 years later, the ML plummeted in value, (or shall I say devalued, not depreciated) to a point I had to dump it or keep bringing it into the shop two to three times a month.

With all said, I haul over 900lbs of densely packed camera equipment for a network news organization. Yes, it does seem a bit overweighed but I will have to tell you, driving through mountains with a full load, I average 20 to 22 mpg and barely notice a difference in performance. On top of it, I weigh 235 and have given up purchasing premium fuel. Add a passenger (my sound guy is 6'4"/280 and I do not have any issues. We weave in and out of traffic in Manhattan fighting taxi's on a daily basis. At the end of the day, I drive 70 miles in and 70 miles home to Upstate NY with comfort and stability.

1/25/03 was the delivery date. The mileage on 11/17/03 is 28,600. Nothing but oil changes every 3k, and plenty of performance. Unfortunately, I am running out of room and have to purchase a larger vehicle that will carry the weightload (Toyota Sequoia). If not for that, I would continue to give the fighting chance to the mighty Element.

Folks, don't underestimate the weight capacity of this truck. It will handle the loads that are challenging to it with terrific performance. Yes, the tires seems like they are bending, and the front tires wear more due to back load weight and mis-alignment charachteristic of rear-loading. But this truck has served me well enough to recoup the money I lost on the stupid German P.O.S. I just ordered the Michelin LTX M&S tires. Hopefully, they will improve the performance and road noise I have been experiencing form the original Goodyears.

I have loaded a couch, hauled dirt bags, a 16' ladder, put 2 mountain bike inside straight up, have slept in it, driven to Canada and Minnesota, beaten the pissia out of it and have had only one complaintl. That is, the seat is just a bit short in height for long hauls.

I goy my money's worth in the time I have owned this vehicle. I am sad to let it go in such a short time.

[quote:3002cc0ca4=" "]
I goy my money's worth in the time I have owned this vehicle. I am sad to let it go in such a short time.[/quote:3002cc0ca4]


Then keep it of buy a Pilot/MDX! But don't buy a stinkin Toyota!


NBPEX4WD5SP

Charlie Mo

I have been going back and forth. I'm keeping the Element, getting rid of my Mini Cooper. It is a hard decision. The Pilot and MDX do not have the cargo displacement i need. The Pilot takes the load too far back and reduces steering control drastically. Also, the back seats do not fold flat.

I many just stay put, but the Sequoia is such a smooth pig.

Just put Michelin LTX m&s's, what a world of difference from the Wranglers.

[quote:49f0ab1547=" "]I have been going back and forth. I'm keeping the Element, getting rid of my Mini Cooper. It is a hard decision. The Pilot and MDX do not have the cargo displacement i need. The Pilot takes the load too far back and reduces steering control drastically. Also, the back seats do not fold flat.

I many just stay put, but the Sequoia is such a smooth pig.

Just put Michelin LTX m&s's, what a world of difference from the Wranglers.[/quote:49f0ab1547]

Next time you go on an expedition with all the equipment, snap some pictures!

-brendan