This is where you can post a reply to indicate where you think the '09 meet should be and WHY. Do not post any "me too" replies. I want suggestions on locations and what activities we can do (from all of my Honda clubs).

The '09 does not need any major activities necessarily. We could go somewhere and hang out too.

So, with that...let's get started on legit suggestions. (I will delete garbage, off-topic posts because this is important stuff, so...you've been warned. hehe)

My vote is based on location. Of what's been represented in the past. Columbus, St. Louis, Las Vegas.

So my vote would be for the Mid-Atlantic or the East since they haven't had representation yet....somewhere like So. Carolina, Flordia or Boston/NY...plenty to do in those states.

Granted I don't live there so I can't be more specific, but some ideas could come to surface with others that are more familiar with those locations.

I also think the West (Cali) could be a consideration for another meet....maybe not the 09 Intrntl, but something......tho it would eliminate a big group from the East.

Guys Chicago is a beautiful and exciting city with lots to do.
Yes, I do live in Chicago but also suggest the Windy City because there are a ton of E's in this town. Think about it.

i'd always thought of Long Island, Cape Cod or Florida Keys as something unique....Coastal.....like the E brochure....campfire, seafood, biking and recreational, youthful and romantic.

Kansas is the center of the US.

We have a number of things we could do.

The Kansas Speedway has the Richard Petty Driving Experience. Riding/Driving a Nascar is awesome.
( I am sure we can get some sort of group discount.)

Leavenworth is also close and I am sure they would give a tour.

We have the Air Combat Museum.

All of these are in the same basic area.

Just a thought.

I've pondered on this overnight. I think we need to pick a semi-central location for all concerned. If we go too far East we'll exclude the ones on the West Coast, same is true if we go out West. :neutral:

That said, I do think a city that would provide a lot of possibilities for everyone would be Nashville, TN. No, it's not all Country Music nor Elvis (not that there is anything wrong with that).

There are three major interstate highways into and out of the area, making travel to and fro a breeze.

Take a look-see at this 'Group Travel Planner (http://olive.jnlcom.com/activemagazine/getbook.asp?Path=NGTP/2008/02/23&BookCollection=JCM_AM&ReaderStyle=Pueblo&PlayCorner=True&browserWindowWidth=1670&browserWindowHeight=1000&IsMac=1&IsNetscape=1)' and you'll get an idea of the possibilities.

I guess I might as well post what my idea has been for an upcoming Event.

Find a town/city that would allow easy/short driving distance to Lynchburg, TN and Huntsville, AL. What you have here would be a trip to Jack Daniels Distrillery and the U.S. Space & Rocket Center. Another option would heading over to the Tail of the Dragon (http://www.tailofthedragon.com/) (US 129), it is a long drive(2 hrs approx) but well worth it for those that enjoy driving twisties! :grin:

The most convenient city to get hotels in that would allow easy access to both Lynchburg as well as Huntsville would be Chattanooga, TN. There is plenty to do in the city itself, there is an airport for people that want to fly in as well. Hotels wouldn't be an issue, neither would food. It's on the Interstate so getting there would be easy for everyone as well.

This location isn't on either coast so it is more central. It is something that offers quite a few options that I think would interest more people.

Some approximate driving distances:

Boston - 1,032 miles
Chicago, IL - 600 miles
Dallas - 785 miles
Denver - 1,287 miles
Kansas City - 685 miles
Las Vegas - 1,922 miles
Los Angeles - 2,136 miles
Miami - 783 miles
New York City - 815 miles
Minneapolis - 1,012 miles
Phoenix - 1,814 miles
San Francisco - 2,437 miles
San Diego - 2,145 miles
Seattle - 2,575 miles
Toronto - 848 miles aka 1,365km :D
Virginia Beach - 650 miles


As you can see the distances that people would need to drive are all fairly similar for all. Yes, the extreme corners and coasts have the greatest distance... but that will be the case in most places chosen.

Those are my ideas and thoughts... :)

Kansas is the center of the US.

We have a number of things we could do.

The Kansas Speedway has the Richard Petty Driving Experience. Riding/Driving a Nascar is awesome.
( I am sure we can get some sort of group discount.)

Leavenworth is also close and I am sure they would give a tour.

We have the Air Combat Museum.

All of these are in the same basic area.

Just a thought.



Now this is one location I can get behind!
Center of the US that is for sure
If these won't work, maybe its time to start thinking about regional meets ?

My 2 cents
I would prefer some place with camping, and cabins
Staying in a hotel gets pricey when you take into count room, meals, and dog boarding. :-)
we could even show off why we got out car bikeing. boating. dog hauling.
I a campground I think there will be more opportunity for comradely around a camp fire
mods under the stars ect.
At the other meets if you did not stay at the official hotel did you feel that you missed out?

I think that Philadelphia or somewhere in the Carolinas/Virginia would work. There are a lot of E owners in these areas and it would also be close enough for people from places like Florida, Georgia, Ohio, etc to be able to attend. Although, if I take my own selfishness out of the question, I would say that it should probably go back to the West coast since we were towards the eastern part of the country for the 08 or maybe farther south to FL or Texas since there hasn't really been a southern meet yet.

Colorado.
Gas milage improves with altitude.:razz:

I hear they got some stuff to do. Scenic Highways, campin', hotels, Bandimere raceway. There's more but I ain't sayin or can't think of it.

I'd say KC cos it's just past my front yard but, I can't think of anything to do besides Six Flags and krispy kremes.:-|

So far all the suggestions are great. I would suggest Indianapolis, Indiana. They are used to dealing with large groups. The Indianapolis Motor Speedway is a great take in. Has a museum and there is the possibility of taking the cars on the track. If not can take the bus tour of the track. They have lots hotel & dining choices.

Short distance from downtown is memorial to the Medal of Honor recepients and the USS Indianapolis. NCAA Hall of Fame. Several musuems. Plus you can drive around Monument circle(which is the dead center of Indianapolis) great photo op.

Would just have to stay away from weekends that they have the races(Indy 500, Moto GP & Nascar).

The city is centrally located. Several highways encircle the city.
I am originally from the northside of Indianapolis and go back there for the Indy 500 every year.

Brown County just an hour south of Indianapolis is a major artist colony

Located only an hour from the brand new Honda plant going towards Cincinnati, OH on I-74.

Whatever the choice is, I am sure it will be fun.

Lake Tahoe, California/Nevada
(Everyone should see Tahoe at least once in thier life)

The big beautiful lake on top of the world!
Wonderful gaming casinos to play and stay at with plenty of lovely B&Bs and small motels for every budget.
For the campers- some of the best campgrounds in California are here.

Recreational activities are off the charts!
Hiking, cycling, world class Mnt Biking trails, kayaking, canoe & Wave Runner rentals, swimming, lake and river fishing too.
There's so much fun stuff to do at Tahoe - your arm would fall off trying to shake a stick at it all.

http://www.tahoevacationguide.com/

http://i1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/278/175/01/o_Emerald_Bay_Lake_Tahoe.jpg

First off this is not a Me Too !

But Lake Tahoe, I mean Lake Bigler (http://www.twainquotes.com/18630905t.html), is awfully close to Reno!,

Inexpensive Hotels and Buffets!

Hot August Nights (http://www.hotaugustnights.net/)

National Automobile Museum (http://www.automuseum.org/)

ArtTown ! (http://www.renoisartown.com/)

History -
Donner Trail (http://historicdonnertrail.org/)
Virginia City (http://www.virginiacity-nv.org/)
The V&T Railroad (http://www.vtrailway.com/)
Kit Carson City (http://www.carson-city.nv.us/index.aspx?page=140) ( The CC Mint (http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/management/curator/exhibitions/mintbldgs/carson-city.shtml), Railroad Museum (http://www.nsrm-friends.org/) )

Plenty of Hotel rooms (Cheap),

Camping galore ( Tahoe National Forrest (http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/tahoe/), CA. (http://www.parks.ca.gov/), NV. (http://www.campingguidenevada.com/index.html) )

Golf up the Whazoo ! (http://www.renogolf.com/),

Downtown White water park ! (http://www.visitrenotahoe.com/reno-tahoe/what-to-do/water-adventures/)

Black Rock Desert (http://www.blackrockdesert.org/)

Gambling !

Cheap Hotel rooms and buffets!

News Coverage ! ( By me :???:)

New Downtown Baseball Stadium (http://reno.baseball.milb.com/index.jsp?sid=t2310) opens next spring !

Cabella's (http://www.cabelas.com/retail-2/retailStores_reno--reno_h.shtml) AND Scheels (http://www.scheelssports.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ScheelsStoreView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10101&storeLoc=RS)

Inexpensive Hotel rooms...

and did I mention the BUFFETS !!!! :grin:


and much more ! Americas adventure place (http://www.visitrenotahoe.com/)

P.S. No, I'm not in sales !:rolleyes:

I vote for Niagara Falls, NY.

It's one of the most beautiful natural wonders of the world and a great tourist destination, it's inexpensive if you do your homework

There are many types of things to do, casino's, darien lake, camping

http://www.niagara-usa.com/

If the East Coast is considered, then my suggestion is the historic triangle, Yorktown, Williamsburg, and Jamestown. Much to see and do. There are many campsites nearby. The colonial parkway is a good drive that takes about 45 minutes and at the end is the Yorktown Pub!! Virginia Beach is an hour away.

I like Nashville also.

Lake Tahoe is sounding great, just as Ms. Ellie & Co suggested. :)

I would suggest Illinois, Alabama or Tennessee. Although almost all of the places suggested sound like they would be great. I'm sure this will be a difficult decision to make.

Not exactly Centrally located by any means. It is kinda HONDA related.
http://www.floridastateparks.org/bahiahonda/

Camping
Ocean
Pavilions
Cabins

It would be a big camping event!
Drive to Key West!
Just a thought!

Lake George is a beautiful area of NY about 3 hours north of NYC. There is lots to do in and around Lake George . You can go boating on the lake:D , camp in the woods:D , hike and or bike the Adirondacks:D , etc. Lake Geogre hosts lots of events throughout the year. Americade(motorcycles) , Hot Air Balloon fest , Antique car shows , etc. It has a nice town to walk through (right along the lake), and a nice long strip to cruise on and show off your Element. When you hold an event in Lake George you basically take over the town . The locals are very friendly and accomidating . Any season is perfect in Lake George:) . But most important is it is not all that expensive to stay in Lake George . There are numerous places(hotels,motels,notells!) to stay and an untold numbers of camp grounds in and around Lake George . It's almost as if Lake George was made to host E-vents for enthusiasts of the E or whatever people might be in to . As an added bonus it is not far from Saratoga NY , Niagra falls NY , Canada , Vermont , and Massachusetts(think day trips) . Upstate New York is has some of the most beautiful landscapes one will ever find .

Do a search on Lake George NY there are tons of things to do .

TO OUR FEARLESS LEADERS:

LOCATION in this matter is of little import.:shock:
You cannot please ALL of the members and those members most determined will travel nearly anywhere to attend.:)

TO OUR MEMBERS:

If at all possible, make the meet!!!
I missed 05 in Ohio (How geeky can you get; A friggen INTERNET car club meet ...pleeeeas)
07 LV (just too far)
08 Ohio (money, money, money...just don't got any).:cry:

But me and Mrs. IRV DID make the 06 Meet in St. Louis ...and had a great time and met a great bunch of folks. :D

So wherever the 09 LOCATION is I will at least consider attending.:D

I've been everywhere, and without a doubt Lake Tahoe is an incredibly beautiful experience.

My second choice would be Vancouver. BC

I say somewhere in the Appalachian Mountains. Cherokee, NC would be fun with lots to do like Harrah's Casino, gem mining, cruise the blue ridge parkway, historic live shows, and much more. There are plenty of camping or hotel options. Another place not to far from there is Gatlinburg, TN. There is tons to do there. I actually went to a VW meet there years ago. Some other cool areas are Boone and Asheville, NC.

http://www.cherokee-nc.com/
http://www.gatlinburg.com/

I think St. Louis would be a great 2009 destination. The city has great highway access from almost any where in the country. It is a full of historical sites and entertainment but it may be to close to the where the 2008 meet was held.
http://www.explorestlouis.com/visitors/25thingsOne.asp?pt=1

Regardless of where it is, I would like to reiterate and regurgitate the point brought up earlier by Dog Drool that it would be really nice to do something a bit more "natural" next year. 07 was GREAT in Vegas, 08 was BEYOND GREAT in Ohio, but they were both very organized and Ohio was somewhat rigid with all the scheduling with the Honda sites and people. I would think getting us all together at a huge campground or something similar and doing "outdoorsy" stuff would be really awesome. Hiking, rafting, National park, state park, cabins, tents, whatever.

That aside, I agree totally with IRV. Tennessee sounds great, Appalachians sound great, Chicago sounds great, Reno would be a blast, upstate NY, Alabama, NC, all would be great. You won't please all of the people with the location, so pick what works best and go from there. But you already know that :D

I think that I'm not alone in saying that I'm limited to how far I can travel, miles, money, endurance, time. And just like the East Coasters that won't be making any trips out West. I couldn't make any trips back East. I would have a hard time going more than 1500 miles from LA. Recent EOC trip to Yellowstone was 1200 and that was as much fun (driving) as I can handle.
So that being said, why can't you (we) have 2 Events?
One for the Left and one for the Right.

If the coast is where people are pointing their noses, I vote for the OBX. My family and I would aways go out there when I was a kid, so that's my vote. Beautiful and fairly easy to get to...

What is OBX ?

What is OBX ?

Outer Banks NC
Nice place but not sure it is good for a large group.

I think that I'm not alone in saying that I'm limited to how far I can travel, miles, money, endurance, time. And just like the East Coasters that won't be making any trips out West. I couldn't make any trips back East. I would have a hard time going more than 1500 miles from LA. Recent EOC trip to Yellowstone was 1200 and that was as much fun (driving) as I can handle.
So that being said, why can't you (we) have 2 Events?
One for the Left and one for the Right.

I think this is a wise suggestion, two meets. We did the Ohio trip this year, it's a LONG drive. Not that it's not enjoyable or doable, it just takes so much vacation time away from every other E-Jamboree that we will want to do in the upcoming year. We had to cut short our time at the Yellowstone/Teton trip due to how much time we took for the Ohio trip. btw both E-vents VERY worth the time!!!

Ohio and California are the logical locations to keep it Honda related as previously suggested. That said, both locations are a stretch for anyone on the other end of the country. I think Jet has a terrific idea!

Of course anyone could go to either or both locations, and this would get more of us involved in these activities.

As I experienced this year, the camping events are a blast, and myself included, we need to all come up with more regional activities to get everyone involved.

I mentioned something to Tom during the SoCal meet about how I'd be nice to do two meets.....one for the west and one for the east.

It's very possible that the Honda sponsored Huntington Beach meet could become just that for the west coast....of course this is just speculation, but a high possibility. :D

I love the idea of camping somewhere. I could care less where we go but this year I plan on having kid and dog in tow. I like the idea of somewhere in the Mid Atlantic and of course I can't complain about Lake George, NY since it's in my backyard:cool:

I love camping in my Element and sitting by the fire at night with my E family(who I love to death) This is why alot of bought these cars and it just makes sense.

I've been everywhere, and without a doubt Lake Tahoe is an incredibly beautiful experience.

My second choice would be Vancouver. BC

i was thinking montreal, qc, but the territory is highly influenced by the canadian french speaking. so, vancouver, bc would be my next choice. nice place. nice things to do and see, and vancouver is pleasant overall. maybe a nice place like this will get some people to lighten up. ha.

Stillwater Oklahoma.....all kinds of stuff to do there and all kinds of Motels. Plus Eskimo Joes for the beer !:)

I grew up in Stillwater, Elementary, HS, OSU and I know what I'm talking about when I say it ain't happening, other than the Eskimo Joe's, the Cimmaron & the Sonic.
Not enough to make me want to drive for 2 days. (don't tell the folks).

How about New Orleans ?

I grew up in Stillwater, Elementary, HS, OSU and I know what I'm talking about when I say it ain't happening, other than the Eskimo Joe's, the Cimmaron & the Sonic.
Not enough to make me want to drive for 2 days. (don't tell the folks).

How about New Orleans ?

Now there's a way out there suggestion. I wonder if anyone has ever considered it. I don't know anything about the New Orleans area other than the flood, the great music, and the beautiful heritage homes -if they're still standing. I do like your idea very much, but I'd like it even more so if there's some sort of outdoor activities there for those inclined to be hanging out in mother nature or participating in sports. Are there campsites in the woods? Are there rivers or lakes to paddle, bike lanes in the mountains, that sort of thing? Not that I'd be doing any of that. I'd be out touring the old homes.

If we'd like this one to be more about doing the outdoorsy stuff the E was designed for, then I'd vote for the smokies, too.

Asheville would be better than Cherokee IMO. Been to that dinky casino...lots of chain smoking seniors and the 1st casino I've been to with no booze. :neutral:The entire reservation area is dry, whole town is. :???: It's less than an hour to the entrance to the smokies north of Cherokee from Asheville.

For your outdoor fix that area is home to a whole bunch of rafting/kayaking rivers...Ocoee, Chattoga (Aka Deliverance River), Nantahala, French Broad, Gauly, etc. Check out the great trips at NOC.com. All those rivers mean lots of flyfishing. For my fellow mtn bikers the famous Tsali trail or Pisgah Nat'l Forest or my new favorite Dupont State Forest are all right there. Boone area is excellent for that roadie fix.

E driving options are Blue Ridge Parkway one day, thru and over the smokies to Gatlinburg and/or around the West side to the 129 i.e. Tail of the Dragon. See map --> http://www.cherohala.com/maps/loop.gif

Uh...last but not least, group E photo at the Biltmore in S. Asheville.

Yeah, I like that area :-P wish it weren't 20 hrs by E to get there. :???:

Everyone has great ideas of places to hold the 09 meet. I think the east coast would be great this time. OBX or the mountains of NC would be sweet. I do love Lake George NY too. When I lived up that way we would take a family vacation up there pretty much every year- so many fond memories for me there.

I'm also leaning toward the camping/outdoorsy experience. It seems to me that's really what the Element was built for. Also, the event-oriented meets seem to run the expenses up, requiring people to book rooms in certain places and eat in specific restaurants. In some cases these events end up leaving people out for one reason or another, like tours for example.

While some people don't even blink at the expenses, others including myself have to take those things into account. I don't attend these meets to line people's pockets. I go to meet a few new people, revisit some old friends, and step out of my day-to-day for a while. Camping fits my budget and gives me a place to relax while other people go off to get their wallets and purses vacuumed by whoever can get them to part with their hard-earned dollars.

As for a location, the Great Smoky Mountains National Park has a lot to offer. http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/things2do.htm

It is a centralized East Coast area however, making it good for us over here but not so good for those on the other side of the country.

That's my two cents on it.

I did not make the 08 event because my vacation time is picked in Feb-Mar and I didn't buy my E until Apr. I like the idea of one BIG event but I know alot of E owners may not be able or willing to travel across the country to attend. I think the idea of 2 events is a very good idea. I do like the idea of Lake George,NY. It is a very nice town w/alot of camping and hotel/motels for those (me+wife) include who prefer to ruff it in a budget (not dumpy) motel...There are alot of shops and attractions in the area. If I had enough notice of the date I would try to attend if I could get the time off- depending on the loaction......just my view.

I think that good solid camping accomadations should be a prerequisite for planning the next National meet no matter where it is.
Hotel rooms are great but they take a big chunk out of your traveling budget and for some of us it's just too expensive.
Heck - 3 days camping costs less than a half a day in a hotel.

I also think that the Nationals should alternate each year.
Have it on the East Coast one year, in Midwest the next, and the West Coast after that.

Disney World? If booked early we could have all of the creekside medow. I have done campouts there with 200+ fathers and daughters the place has lots to offer with out setting foot in a theme park. All comfort levels are available up to and including $300 a night; 2 bedroom cabins with a/c and daily maid service, camp sites ie #900 loop are just next door to the creekside medow they go about $50 a night and can handle two tents with all hook ups for up to 40' RV If memory serves the primitive rate is $20 or $24 a night, cleanest most modern, bathroom shower accomidations you will ever see. check out the web site I don't know if creekside is even advertised.
Ok; there I said it

Bryce Canyon National park.

Great hiking and awesome scenery.

Lots of camping and lodging available. Bryce Canyon lodge and Campgrounds in the park. Bryce Canyon Resort and Ruby's Inn and Campground with campsites, cabins and tipis just outside the park. Ruby's Inn restaurant can handle large groups as well.

Within driving distance of Zion National Park, Kodachrome Basin, The Grand Staircase, Capitol Reef, Anasazi Indian Village State Park and much more.

Pets are allowed in the campgrounds (not on trails).


1-2 day drive from most of the US, probably 3 days from east coast.

http://www.brycecanyon.com/

My suggestion is for Pigeon Forge, TN. There are a couple of car events that happen there each year. The Smoky Mountains, Asheville & Dollywood are a couple of things i know of that are located in the area.
www.mypigeonforge.com is the website that'll give you some info about the area and E-vents :D (had to stick that in there)

If we'd like this one to be more about doing the outdoorsy stuff the E was designed for, then I'd vote for the smokies, too.

Asheville would be better than Cherokee IMO. Been to that dinky casino...lots of chain smoking seniors and the 1st casino I've been to with no booze. :neutral:The entire reservation area is dry, whole town is. :???: It's less than an hour to the entrance to the smokies north of Cherokee from Asheville.

For your outdoor fix that area is home to a whole bunch of rafting/kayaking rivers...Ocoee, Chattoga (Aka Deliverance River), Nantahala, French Broad, Gauly, etc. Check out the great trips at NOC.com. All those rivers mean lots of flyfishing. For my fellow mtn bikers the famous Tsali trail or Pisgah Nat'l Forest or my new favorite Dupont State Forest are all right there. Boone area is excellent for that roadie fix.

E driving options are Blue Ridge Parkway one day, thru and over the smokies to Gatlinburg and/or around the West side to the 129 i.e. Tail of the Dragon. See map --> http://www.cherohala.com/maps/loop.gif

Uh...last but not least, group E photo at the Biltmore in S. Asheville.

Yeah, I like that area :-P wish it weren't 20 hrs by E to get there. :???:

I 2nd the ashville location, it certainly would provide all the outdoor stuff people are looking for as well as other things to see and do. Ie Biltmore.

I also like the Lake Tahoe and New Orleans ideas too!

No "ditto" posts, please.

Although STL is centrally located, it is a craphole.

I would recommend Mackinac... very scenic.

why don't we hold it somewhere in canada? i mean, for the past couple of years its always been in the states, why not do something different?? i'm thinking about doing it in Toronto :rolleyes::D

I've been thinking back about the mention of New Orleans, and being that there are many historic homes to see, I'd love to go there. I've been wondering what is there as far as camping and outdoor activities. I had no idea at all and here's some of what I found:

http://www.lsu.edu/urec/html/destinations.html
http://www.crt.state.la.us/parks/iFeeFacChart.htm

Take a look at all the group activities for the outdoor enthuisiasts. I'd love to take a raft through a swamp and study the landscapes around the old plantations. I'd love to camp in the tropical heat. I'd simply love to go. And there are some campsites set up for groups like the scouts and the EOCers :D with big guesthouses and kitchens. This could be our way of offering support to the community affected by Katrina. And then the next year we could go to San Leon and see how Ike ate his way through JoJo's neighborhood -that nasty monster.

New Orleans is still setup for great restaurants, hard partying, and gambling but a lot of the parks, Museums, etc. outside the French Quarter are still in recovery. It's a great city (lots of my family is there) but it's hardly back to normal. Venture 30-40 miles away N or W and you don't see the affects of Katrina...though you will see some from Gustav. :|

My dad was a huge history buff...I've been to most of the historic homes at one point in time...some kickin' & screamin' as a young kid. :razz:

If you're looking for antebellum homes google "River Road Plantations". It'll list them all between Baton Rouge & New Orleans along the Mississippi River. River road is a fun twisty drive for a loooooong ways. There's the famous Oak Alley in Vacherie which has beautiful grounds and a B&B setup outback in the old slave quarters (stayed there for a wedding :) )http://www.oakalleyplantation.com/
The Grand Dame of them all is Nottaway in White Castle about 30 mi S of Baton Rouge on the West side of the river. http://www.nottoway.com/ If you want to see lots in close proximity go to St Francisville which is just north of Baton Rouge. It has one of the highest concentrations of antebellum homes in the country. It's a great area to see in the spring when the azalea's are in bloom and Rosedown has a beautiful garden. It's the area John James Audubon lived in as a teacher when he did most of his artwork.

Fountainbleu SP has camping, but it's a ways from the river, it's NE of N.O. on Lake Ponchatrain. It does however hook up to the Tammany Trace, which is a great paved former rail line that's part of the rails-to-trails system. There's also several places to do swamp tours in nearby Slidell.

I say Washington D.C., we can even camp out on The Mall. Lots of local members to show everyone the sights.;-) werD:cool:

i still say toronto

Has Texas been said yet?? If not, TEXAS!!!!!!!!! South Padre Island!!!!!

:-DVIRGINIA BEACH, VA. (Google it) You won't be disappointed! We have everything here to ENJOY. Lots of campgrounds, Hotels, beaches, clubs/bars, entertainment, Naval Base Tours, boat rides, fishing and great weather. :grin:

Bob

Stillwater Oklahoma.....all kinds of stuff to do there and all kinds of Motels. Plus Eskimo Joes for the beer !:)

Thomas and I like OK! Tulsa, OK city or Stillwater is all good, but we might be flying and not driving!

Has there been any mention of the possible dates?

I would love to finally come to a meet and I think I may be able to talk my wife in joining.

I have to say the Asheville area is a great area and plenty of options for all. It is close enough to the Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge area that setting up in either area would let those take the day trip to the sites.

A group picture with all of the Es in front of the Biltmore would be spectacular and probably doable.

I would discourage against anything in the FL Keys, as the speed limit is 35 on the one road in and out, and if there are a lot of cars, that may be an issue...if it's family friendly, Orlando, with Disney and Universal, Sea World, and the rest of this mess. Hopefully the Dreams will come true, and the fam and I will move to Asheville next year...that would also be great for a good outdoor meet.

Also consider:

Baja California
NYC
Chicago
Jacksonville/St Augustine
Santa Fe

Def. Canada :D

Chattanooga, TN. It's not only considered the "Scenic City", but I am up there every weekend visiting my girlfriend. The girlfriend and I could surely swing by to see some more Elements because she likes them also. :)

Plus, there is "Camp Jordan" right down the road, which has been home to many weekend car shows.

I think the Lake George NY area would be a great place. So much to do and also so much to do in a 90 min or less radius. Home to the Americade - Worlds Largest Touring Rally (http://www.tourexpo.com/data/) and many other events. Many places to drive to like I said in the Adirondacks such as Whiteface Mountain (http://www.whiteface.com/newsite/index.php)( A convey of Elements driving up the Whiteface Memorial Highway would be awesome) and the Lake Placid Region as well as Lake Champlain. Anyways, that is just my opinion but I am a little bias since it is in my backyard but if you haven't been to the Adirondacks you need to make the trip.

A lot of good suggestions so far. We are going to give the 2009 International Meet Committee a lot to think about. I guess I will add my two cents:

Vancouver, BC - A good opportunity for me to visit family :D.

Toronto, ON - Another good opportunity for me to visit family.

San Diego, CA - Nice weather, nice beaches, Gaslamp District.

Napa, CA - Can you imaging a line of Elements traveling through the wine country visiting local wineries. Anyone seen the movie Sideways? (filmed in and around Solvang, CA, not Napa, CA)

San Francisco, CA - I can see it now, Elements meeting at the Marina (Greens), then caravaning across the Golden Gate Bridge to Sausalito and then to Muir Woods (for the campers). This should make Jdiane Happy :).

Cal Central Coast - with places like Hearst Castle, Cambria, SLO, Pismo Beach, lots of camping sites for the campers, and just close enough for the cruisers.

Santa Barbara, CA - Expensive but picturesque. Maybe not so practical.

Los Angeles, CA - Well, with the Honda in Torrance, the Design Center in Pasadena, there is no better choice....well there is, Huntington Beach :D. I could probably hook the EOC up with a location in Pomona, CA. Site of the Wally Parks NHRA Museum, hotel is adjacent. Lots of parking. I can work with Museum on dates if needed.

Huntington Beach, CA - Did anyone go to the Honda So Cal Event this past Summer? TMac, do you think the EOC can get another invite to the Surfing Championships in 2009?

All in all, the committee has there work cut out for them. A lot of great suggestions for the Meet. What ever is decided, the Committee and EOC has my support.

I'll second Toronto. I love that city!

Upsides-It's a beautiful city, and between the Science Center, the CN Tower, some of the parks, and I'm sure there's other stuff there I haven't ever even heard of, there's cool stuff to see and do. And, we'd finally be giving some love to our Canadian E owners.

Downsides-It's a bit of a hike from certain places. By the time of the 2009 meet, you'll need a passport to get into and out of Canada. And, if you've ever had a DUI, the Canadians won't let you in.

There are a lot of awesome suggestions. I think Texas would be cool. There is so much to do there. I especially like San Antonio.

Another one I like is Cape Cod. My family takes me here nearly every summer for a week. I never get tired of it. You would be able to pick a camp ground on mid-Cape and everyone could use it as a homebase. There are a lot of really fun day trips you can make up and down the arm.

San Diego. I've never been there but I have a strong desire to. So. Cal. is just appealing.

That's my random 2 cents.:D

I need to get vacation requests in by Oct. 31st for the first half of 2009. Any ideas on the dates yet for the Combo Meet?

I really don't get it, how can we have a National Meet on either side of the country making it difficult for the coasters, (east or west) to attend?

With the economy the way it is, gas and distance pays a significant part in traveling, --- not everyone can afford air flights and some have dogs, cats etc.. Some folks are not married and cannot leave animals home, some folks must travel with spouses, increasing the costs, --- The variables are so great.

Unless it becomes two meets east and west, doesn't the location have to remain central for all to make and effort to attend?
Just thinking out loud here, sort of....
I thought Ohio was not a bad choice, but when I see, CA or East Coast locations, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Can we creatively come up with something for the gathering of the most people, from all directions.......? (or should we go with two meets?)

Miss Ellies idea isn't half bad, but much more work for T-Mac.


I feel bad for T-Mac trying to figure this out.

Regards,
jurn

Equidistant from all doesn't work. Lebanon, Kansas, is smack in the middle of the continental U.S., but far and inconvenient for most everybody. You could have simultaneous meets on the coasts, or just hop around the way most organizations do: Philadelphia one year, Houston the next, then San Francisco, Chicago, Miami, Seattle, etc. That way most folks will eventually get a meet within 500 miles of their house. Because of population distribution, you get the most bang for the buck by either going "east" (anywhere east of the Mississippi), or "west coast" (including Las Vegas and Tucson). Only a few die-hards are going to drive from either coast to Denver, Lincoln, or Oklahoma City.

Personally I have no preference; I'll go wherever the nationals are if I can swing it. Besides, I have just as much fun at smaller, regional meets, especially if there's a campfire.

How about several meets at once !, One on each coast, a southern, a northern, a mid western, Hawaiian, Canadian, Japan, Russian. All on the same weekend !

I'll throw my $.02 in when I find out where I'm getting stationed next. :D
But I have family in Leavenworth, KS. Lots to look at for you history nuts, but you have to drive to KC to find more entertaining things to do.

A lot of good suggestions so far. We are going to give the 2009 International Meet Committee a lot to think about. I guess I will add my two cents:

Vancouver, BC - A good opportunity for me to visit family :D.

Toronto, ON - Another good opportunity for me to visit family.

San Diego, CA - Nice weather, nice beaches, Gaslamp District.

Napa, CA - Can you imaging a line of Elements traveling through the wine country visiting local wineries. Anyone seen the movie Sideways? (filmed in and around Solvang, CA, not Napa, CA)

San Francisco, CA - I can see it now, Elements meeting at the Marina (Greens), then caravaning across the Golden Gate Bridge to Sausalito and then to Muir Woods (for the campers). This should make Jdiane Happy :).

Cal Central Coast - with places like Hearst Castle, Cambria, SLO, Pismo Beach, lots of camping sites for the campers, and just close enough for the cruisers.

Santa Barbara, CA - Expensive but picturesque. Maybe not so practical.

Los Angeles, CA - Well, with the Honda in Torrance, the Design Center in Pasadena, there is no better choice....well there is, Huntington Beach :D. I could probably hook the EOC up with a location in Pomona, CA. Site of the Wally Parks NHRA Museum, hotel is adjacent. Lots of parking. I can work with Museum on dates if needed.

Huntington Beach, CA - Did anyone go to the Honda So Cal Event this past Summer? TMac, do you think the EOC can get another invite to the Surfing Championships in 2009?

All in all, the committee has there work cut out for them. A lot of great suggestions for the Meet. What ever is decided, the Committee and EOC has my support.

I see a pattern here. :-D

I'll throw my $.02 in when I find out where I'm getting stationed next. :D
But I have family in Leavenworth, KS. Lots to look at for you history nuts, but you have to drive to KC to find more entertaining things to do.

Leavenworth isn't that far of a drive..................

Since KC is the largest city near Lebanon, KS (geographical center of US)..........
I like the idea of several meets - each super moderator could organize one around thier area

I'll throw my $.02 in when I find out where I'm getting stationed next. :D
But I have family in Leavenworth, KS. Lots to look at for you history nuts, but you have to drive to KC to find more entertaining things to do.

...so what you're saying is you're probably going to be "stationed" at Ft. Leavenworth next? :rolleyes: :lol:

...so what you're saying is you're probably going to be "stationed" at Ft. Leavenworth next? :rolleyes: :lol:

I won't get stationed there and I won't get "stationed" there either.

It's an Army post. I'm Air Force. And I don't plan on doing anything stupid to the point where I'll be calling it my new home for the next 5-15 years. ;-)

Leavenworth isn't that far of a drive..................


I know. Lived there for a few years.

I choose Southern California because of an abundance of attractions and tons of things to do. Besides Honda R&D, and Honda's SoCal Design Center, there is...

Peterson Automotive Museum... California Speedway... Santa Anita Race Track
Disneyland Resort... John Force Racing... LA Arboretum
Knotts Berry Farm... Dave and Busters... LaBrea Tar Pits
Legoland... The Greek Theater... LAC Museum of Art
Six Flags Magic Mountain... The Hollywood Bowl... NHRA Wally Parks Race Museum
J. Paul Getty Museum... Man's Chinese Theater... Pomona Raceway
Universal City... Hollywood Park... Sea World
OC Performing Arts Center... La County Zoo... Queen Mary
The Honda Center... San Diego Zoo & Wildlife Park... Irwindale Raceway

That's just naming some of the attractions here in SoCal! There are beautiful beaches lining the coast, more nightlife that anyone could ever want or imagine, availability of campsites, and thousands of available hotel and motel rooms. Most importantly, we also display great PARTICIPATION!!! We average over 20 Elements, just at local meets, and when T-Mac invited us to the Honda US Open Surfing Championships in July, we had over 40 Elements to show up just for that. If this was a National Meet we would do even better, let alone Elements from other states. What's not to like about a National Meet in SoCal?!!!

Chief

I choose Southern California because of an abundance of attractions and tons of things to do. Besides Honda R&D, and Honda's SoCal Design Center, there is...

Peterson Automotive Museum... California Speedway... Santa Anita Race Track
Disneyland Resort... John Force Racing... LA Arboretum
Knotts Berry Farm... Dave and Busters... LaBrea Tar Pits
Legoland... The Greek Theater... LAC Museum of Art
Six Flags Magic Mountain... The Hollywood Bowl... NHRA Wally Parks Race Museum
J. Paul Getty Museum... Man's Chinese Theater... Pomona Raceway
Universal City... Hollywood Park... Sea World
OC Performing Arts Center... La County Zoo... Queen Mary
The Honda Center... San Diego Zoo & Wildlife Park... Irwindale Raceway

That's just naming some of the attractions here in SoCal! There are beautiful beaches lining the coast, more nightlife that anyone could ever want or imagine, availability of campsites, and thousands of available hotel and motel rooms. Most importantly, we also display great PARTICIPATION!!! We average over 20 Elements, just at local meets, and when T-Mac invited us to the Honda US Open Surfing Championships in July, we had over 40 Elements to show up just for that. If this was a National Meet we would do even better, let alone Elements from other states. What's not to like about a National Meet in SoCal?!!!

Chief

I'm with Chief, bring the Big E-vent to SoCal!!!! :evil:

I wouldn't mind a meet in SoCal but I wouldn't drive my E there. Don't have that many vacation days to burn..

I wouldn't mind a meet in SoCal but I wouldn't drive my E there. Don't have that many vacation days to burn..

Accord Driver... I personally think that you have one of the sweetest rides that has ever posted on this forum, and I would personally love to have a pic of our rides together!

Your ride looks like it's "STRAIGHT OUT OF SOCAL!!!" A SoCal "International Combo Meet" would provide us with enough 'Tuner E's' together to capture the ATTENTION of "Honda Tuning Magazine," and even the Japanese Mags themselves!

Just the 'BACKDROPS' alone in prime SoCal locations would be worth your trip alone!!! Please give it some thought, I would personally love to see you here!

Chief

I'll vote for SoCal not because I live here but just tons of places to go not to mentioned Pacific Coast Hwy well known as Hwy 1 runs all the way from Vancouver to South border of Mexico Baja California, and along the Hwy are all well known Beaches, Huntington, Newport and Manhattan 8-), Camp sites lot's of choices. Night life from Country to Jazz moods and lot's of good hotel accommodations. :roll:

What about the dates for it? At least what month will it be in?

Not in this thread, ERDan.

I choose Southern California because of an abundance of attractions and tons of things to do. Besides Honda R&D, and Honda's SoCal Design Center, there is...

Peterson Automotive Museum... California Speedway... Santa Anita Race Track
Disneyland Resort... John Force Racing... LA Arboretum
Knotts Berry Farm... Dave and Busters... LaBrea Tar Pits
Legoland... The Greek Theater... LAC Museum of Art
Six Flags Magic Mountain... The Hollywood Bowl... NHRA Wally Parks Race Museum
J. Paul Getty Museum... Man's Chinese Theater... Pomona Raceway
Universal City... Hollywood Park... Sea World
OC Performing Arts Center... La County Zoo... Queen Mary
The Honda Center... San Diego Zoo & Wildlife Park... Irwindale Raceway

That's just naming some of the attractions here in SoCal! There are beautiful beaches lining the coast, more nightlife that anyone could ever want or imagine, availability of campsites, and thousands of available hotel and motel rooms. Most importantly, we also display great PARTICIPATION!!! We average over 20 Elements, just at local meets, and when T-Mac invited us to the Honda US Open Surfing Championships in July, we had over 40 Elements to show up just for that. If this was a National Meet we would do even better, let alone Elements from other states. What's not to like about a National Meet in SoCal?!!!

Chief

Chief, Barvel, vfxraven19, EXwSCnose, et. al,

I am thinking that the EOC 2009 International Meet Committee should send a delegation out to Southern California to at least look at the possibility of having the meet here. Or maybe, we could at least put together a proposal and/or make a presentation to the Meet Committee on the benefits of having the International Meet in Southern California :-P. A couple of the Committee Members attended the Honda Surf Open at Huntington Beach this past summer. Just a thought :rolleyes:;-)!

JSm00th

JSm00th

First off... we probably won't even have a big "committee" due to lack of interest.

Secondly, if we have meets next year, we should probably plan an East and a West. I'm not sure that we can attend both, but that is my goal. Granted, I can't promise that either meet will be like some previous meets such as touring Honda facilities, etc.

So, stay tuned.

First off... we probably won't even have a big "committee" due to lack of interest.

Secondly, if we have meets next year, we should probably plan an East and a West. I'm not sure that we can attend both, but that is my goal. Granted, I can't promise that either meet will be like some previous meets such as touring Honda facilities, etc.

So, stay tuned.

T Mac,

Just as you did with the Honda US Open of Surfing invitation, you have once again captured our attention! "We will most definitely stay tuned!!!" ;-)

Chief

I'll second Toronto. I love that city!

Upsides-It's a beautiful city, and between the Science Center, the CN Tower, some of the parks, and I'm sure there's other stuff there I haven't ever even heard of, there's cool stuff to see and do. And, we'd finally be giving some love to our Canadian E owners.

Downsides-It's a bit of a hike from certain places. By the time of the 2009 meet, you'll need a passport to get into and out of Canada. And, if you've ever had a DUI, the Canadians won't let you in.

i'm 3rd on toronto

1st of all, we didn't have a EOC big meet up here :mad:

2nd of all, for the past few years, it has been all done in the states :mad:


pleaseeeeeeeee make it in toronto, PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

i know that a lot of E owners here will definetly attend :rolleyes:

plus, seeing that the CN tower is the world's 2nd tallest man made wonder, what else can possibly beat that? :shock::rolleyes:

I love Toronto but I think a problem you will have is that we all need Passports or ID cards to get back into the states. That means a heck of alot of planning and extra cost. I have a valid passport but those who don't it's $100 for a passport book or $45 for an id card.

I like the idea of East and West meets. I would love to meet everyone out in California but it's just way to far to drive for us East Coasters. The turn out in Vegas wasn't that great due to people not willing to travel that far. Yeah I could of flown but an E meet without my E seemed dumb and it was going to cost us close to $2000 for 3 days:-|

If we do East and West meets it would be nice to have the East somewhere in the Mid-Atlantic region. I really would love to do some camping. Alot of us love the outdoors and camping would be so much cheaper than a hotel room. I spent $400 on a room last year that I only used to sleep and shower. We could find a campsite with a nearby hotel for those who don't camp.

I like the East and West meets too, but not on the same date. There's some that would probably like to go to both (including myself) and it would be nice to leave that option open. As long as the planning committee can get enough qualified to plan two events I'd be great, but finding enough for just one national meet is sometimes a struggle.

I also agree on the Toronto thing...passports would be a major hassle, plus I don't know the laws but certain E's with mods could pose a problem while crossing boarders.

I know we're starting to drift off the original topic - kinna - sorta. But, since we're all giving an opinion on the '09 International Meet, I think this has to be said.

It seems to me that we are describing more a 'mini meet' or a typical regional meet than we are 'The Big Event'. Honestly, in my opinion, if the EOC can't do something 'spectacular' or at least 'noteworthy' on an annual basis, maybe it's time to think about doing the "Big Event" every other year or so...

I'm not against having a group camping event, I think that's great, I do however, think that alone is not that different than any of our other regional events, especially if you consider breaking off into 'separate' events.

However, if it is decided to hold one event, we have to consider drive time(s) and distance(s). Not many are willing (or able) to travel 2,000 or 3,000 miles for a two or three day get together - especially one without some form of 'special event'.

Yes, it's quite possible that we may take 2009 off from any "big events" officially announced and planned way in advance.

For those on the left coast, there is still a chance we'll repeat things at the US Open of Surfing, but I can't make any promises.

I'm sorting through some things now and will keep everyone posted.

Thanks all.

With T-Mac's permission and in luie of maybe not having a huge singular National Meet for 2009 - perhaps members could organize a series of "Regional" National Meets across the country, North, East, South, West, Midwest etc. etc.

T-Mac could kick back, catch a break and watch what the members come up with - could be fun.

It's just an idea and if it get's nixed I'll understand and go lie down next to my dish and shut up about it. :oops:

With T-Mac's permission and in luie of maybe not having a huge singular National Meet for 2009 - perhaps members could organize a series of "Regional" National Meets across the country, North, East, South, West, Midwest etc. etc.

T-Mac could kick back, catch a break and watch what the members come up with - could be fun.

It's just an idea and if it get's nixed I'll understand and go lie down next to my dish and shut up about it. :oops:

I agree Miss Ellie... I was thinking, and this could be a long shot, but several regional "E"vents on the same weekend would be cool!

For those on the left coast, there is still a chance we'll repeat things at the US Open of Surfing, but I can't make any promises.



This is great news!!!!
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/8095/img0059sb1.jpg

2 events, one on each side of the U.S. sounds like a good idea.

However, if it is just one event. Eureka Springs, Ar is right in the middle and is a big victorian tourist town in the Ozark Hills. They have corvette weekend every year and hundreds and hundreds of corvettes show up for it.

Eureka has got alot of hotels and places to eat, but it also is out in the country so you can find places to camp.

http://eurekasprings.com/

T Mac,

Since both events would be 'Combo Meets,' then theoretically there should be enough attendees for two events. I have no idea what the Ridgeline population is , let alone out here on the West Coast. What is the Ridgeline Owners Club participation like?

Chief

I have no idea what the Ridgeline population is , let alone out here on the West Coast. What is the Ridgeline Owners Club participation like?

SoCal represents well - http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23913

SoCal represents well - http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23913

T Mac...that was EXCELLENT, after checking that out, I'm quite sure we can definitely do our part on the West Coast side! Toobuku on the ROC site is miy kind of member "GO RAIDERS!!!" :-D

Chief

Even if there is an east and west combo meet, I think I would be more tempted to go west coast. I want to go to SoCal so bad and have never been there.

Even if there is an east and west combo meet, I think I would be more tempted to go west coast. I want to go to SoCal so bad and have never been there.

BassPlayer...you would absolutely LOVE SoCal!!! ;-)

Chief

This is what we have to constantly deal with!!!

Chief

Thanks Chief, rub it in would ya!:D Yeah, it's 37 and cloudy right now. I'm still trying to talk my to be wife into moving to SoCal after we graduate! So.....I say we have a big E-vent in SoCal!
This is what we have to constantly deal with!!!

Chief

Thanks Chief, rub it in would ya!:D Yeah, it's 37 and cloudy right now. I'm still trying to talk my to be wife into moving to SoCal after we graduate! So.....I say we have a big E-vent in SoCal!

That's an excellent plan, today will be 78 degrees, sunny and and clear. ;-) Years ago, when I first came out here on a visit from Louisiana, I instantly knew that this is where I was going to live. Lifestyle has a hell of a lot to do with our happiness and well being. So I truly hope that it works out for you and we wind up with a new SoCal Chapter member in the future!

T Mac I hope you're listening, that's another vote for SoCal! :D

Chief

How about COC?? How do they represent?? Their cars are similar to ours in terms of setup, I would like to see a combo meet with Elements and CRV's!

Hey Chief,

Show BassPlayer a pic of the 405 at 5 o'clock, or a smoggy basin !!!:razz:

T_Mac, All,

Seems like the ROC is talking Dana point, I'd rather do Pismo (if SoCal is ultimately picked), way more room to camp and better watersport / swimming activities, and not so far into the LA traffic, smog, congestion. Also not too far for day trips to points north and south. If your talking of doing the Honda Surf Tour in that area too, then that's overkill for so cal meets.... JMO.

Go Tahoe 2009!!!

Depending on the time of year.. how about Arizona?? Tons of camping at the Grand Canyon! Vegas is only 3.5 hours away.. Sedona, the most beautiful place in the US is just a nice twisty mountain drive south and it is full of hiking, biking, and camping areas.. as well as slide rock park!! Zion National park is not that far either! For those who have not seen Sedona.. here is a pic..sorry about the Pathfinder in it.. have not gotten the new E up there yet!

http://usera.imagecave.com/cnhea4x4/Pathfinder/ps3.jpg

SoCal International Combo Meet 2009
...the way to go!!!

Chief

I know we're starting to drift off the original topic - kinna - sorta. But, since we're all giving an opinion on the '09 International Meet, I think this has to be said.

It seems to me that we are describing more a 'mini meet' or a typical regional meet than we are 'The Big Event'. Honestly, in my opinion, if the EOC can't do something 'spectacular' or at least 'noteworthy' on an annual basis, maybe it's time to think about doing the "Big Event" every other year or so...

I'm not against having a group camping event, I think that's great, I do however, think that alone is not that different than any of our other regional events, especially if you consider breaking off into 'separate' events.

However, if it is decided to hold one event, we have to consider drive time(s) and distance(s). Not many are willing (or able) to travel 2,000 or 3,000 miles for a two or three day get together - especially one without some form of 'special event'.

Or tweak the format? How about a huge-oh-mundo mod meet? Load it up with sponsors, honda techs to help with the mods, blah blah blah.

still saying Toronto

because you US E people haven't seen/been up here and how it feels like!!

well...some :-(

Meet in the Middle...I-35 and I-40 Oklahoma City

I think that Philadelphia or somewhere in the Carolinas/Virginia would work. There are a lot of E owners in these areas and it would also be close enough for people from places like Florida, Georgia, Ohio, etc to be able to attend. Although, if I take my own selfishness out of the question, I would say that it should probably go back to the West coast since we were towards the eastern part of the country for the 08 or maybe farther south to FL or Texas since there hasn't really been a southern meet yet.

North Carolina sound good ...:-P

TORONTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :mad:

Or tweak the format? How about a huge-oh-mundo mod meet? Load it up with sponsors, honda techs to help with the mods, blah blah blah.

I'd totally go for that! Group-hire some mechanics for the day and do mass 6 spd conversions? :rolleyes:

Hey it COULD happen, if even in some twisted fantasy world...:twisted:

i would still have to say toronto...

why? because having 3-4 canadian E's visit the states and 95% of the E's there are american, why not have some american E's come up to toronto?