I'm not just saying this because I am a motorhead, or because no car I have ever owned has been left stock (including Ellie).

Last week, I got to test her on our first road trip, to the SEMA Convention in Las Vegas. She performed flawlessly, however, it is very apparent that she is underpowered. Granted, for the money we pay for these cars, you can't expect a 270hp six cylinder, but still...come on Honda, at least give us around 200hp or so. This 160hp just does not cut it. I have a custom intake on it, and all it really does is howl, and not go anywhere. At highway speed, she is fine. Even with the 2" drop, she rides great. But god forbid I have to slam the gas to pass someone, fugghedaboutit.

I live in Los Angeles. Whoever is familiar with the LA ---> Vegas road trip knows ALL about the 138 freeway. It's one lane in each direction. The speed limit is anywhere from 40-70mph, and to SoCal people, that means 80-100mph. It's in the middle of the desert, and you are allowed to pass. However, passing is honestly VERY dangerous. There have been numerous fatalities on that highway from people passing, and slamming head first into another car. If you are going to pass, you need a car that has some power.

I can't tell you how timid I was when it came time to pass. Maybe it is because I am used to faster cars. I used to have a Civic with a built B16A turbo, and it was faster than ****. When I would go to pass, I'd just drop a gear, and I could pass up four or five cars with ease. This time, however, I found Ellie very hesitant.

I honestly do not think that the weight, and stance of the car, justifies it's low 160hp. Closer to 200hp would be ideal. I also think Honda knows this, since all of the Honda project Element's are rated at 200hp.

I hope some aftermarket companies bite soon. This is killing me. Cold air intake, header, exhaust, throttle body, intake manifold, cam sprockets, camshafts, V-AFC...I think that would put me closer to what I am looking for, and when that stuff hits the shelves, best believe it will hit my Element too.

Anyway, this is a plea to aftermarket companies...or Honda...come on guys, give us what we want, because you know we want it, and we know you know...hehe.

I agree that it needs some more power, I plan on an intake and exhaust.

If I really want more power I will drive my 370hp Ford Harley Davidson F-150 to vegas.

HB

Wow! :shock: So many thoughts! [yes, I hear the chorus of "Ohhh, noooo.... grooooooaaaan..." in the background] :wink:

0. The E is a big box.

1. You have to be certifiable to drive 138 when there are better options. I lived in Antelope Valley for 25 years, and was absolutely terrified of 138. Unless you were starting from Canyon Country, you'd be time and gray hairs ahead by taking the 210 to the 15.

1a. You're complaining about the E being "underpowered"? Try 138 in a '66 VW Bug!

2. More power is a two-edged sword. It usually means that fuel economy suffers, and already we have folks here with legit gripes about sub-20 mpg.

3. Higher power as a factory option usually results in the market choosing "More power! Ar ar ar!" A small SUV I know well started with both an I4 and a V6, and you couldn't find a 4 right now if your life depended on it. So now, everyone loves the power, but hates the 15 mpg.

4. You more than most here should understand the limitations of the aftermarket. The numbers have to be there before somebody is going to stick their financial neck out developing product. The E is a new platform that all but missed its intended market demo, drawing instead a demo which isn't necessarily a rich market for performance mods. I already know one performance add-on maker who said "no" because of this.

5. The E is a big non-aerodynamic box.

Anyway, you're probably going to get other heat on this, as did I when I complained about the sluggishness of the AWD/auto. However, I am finally at peace with the idea that the E isn't going to be my V6 Escape. While I might wish for some of the same mods you suggest, the E's strong suit is still it's flexibility, utility and spaciousness for a great price, and so what if I can't win the occasional lane-squeeze drag race? It'll probably help me live longer, anyway.

:lol:

Must Have an Automatic cuz mine is a rocket
I drive Camp Pedleton daily at 80-110 mph
Yes 110
I have SOP 4wd 5 speed no mods for extra power and had a fun time getting all four wheels to spin as the lights turned green this am driving to work in very fresh rain!
Yes I am a knuckle head sometimes
I would like a sixth gear looking at 4000-5200 rpm all the time seems scary

Yeah, mine is an auto. We took the 138 to miss the traffic, this was on a Wednesday morning...we'd sit in traffic the whole way had we taken the 210 to the 15.

I don't particularly care if I get pounded about the power issue. It's a very lgitimate issue. There are many, MANY cars out there with MUCH more power, that have no business having it. If someone wants to slam me for that, then they better be able to back it up...I know I can, I make a business doing it. :wink:

Honda broke the mold with the Element, though. Up until the Element, I believe, the difference in trim level between DX and EX has ALWAYS included a different engine. I was kind of shocked when I found out that the DX came with the same engine as the EX. It makes me wonder why Honda did not introduce a Type-S model? Maybe include the K24A from the TSX so we can have 200hp in the upper model. I can tell you one thing, there is no way in hell I would have missed that one.

No matter how you look at it, the Element could use more power. Anyone who wants to argue safety issues needs to take a step back and get out of their shell. What added safety issues are there with a car that has more power? One thing I get a lot in my business, is people who want to upgrade their brakes to "big brake" systems, because they are turbocharging their engine. Why? I don't see the logic. Your cars top speed won't change, it'll just get there a lot faster...so why do you need bigger brakes? Of course, a brake upgrade is only a GOOD thing, but don't use the fact that your car makes more power as a reason to do it. If you want to be safe regardless, do it, but not because you think you're going to be faster now. Regardless, if you are topping out your car, you should have no reason for a brake upgrade, because you have no business behing the wheel of a car on a public street. So the brake safety question is obselete...unless your top speed is increased, or you are a road racer, your stock brakes are fine. Just get some better pads, and brake fluid.

As for aerodynamics, the car isn't that bad. Let's be realistic here...the Hummer H2 is far less aerodynamic than our cars. It produces more than twice the power, and weighs more than twice as much. If there is a car on the road that you should fear going any faster, that's the one. Don't even get me started on the H1. For the record, I drove everywhere from 0-100mph on the way to Vegas, and experienced absolutely NO wind tow, or any other problems with the aerodynamics of the vehicle. As a matter of fact, I had to swerve severely to avoid an accident, and she performed exceptionally well at speed.

As for MPG...if I cared, I wouldn't have mentioned it. MPG is what the Civic is for, lol. 30+ MPG in the Civic...**** in the Element. That's life. I want to be able to pass up cars when I'm road-tripping in Ellie. And yeah, I know all about the aftermarket gripe, and understand completely...but that doesn't mean I still don't want it! :cry:

As isdkelley said, that's the difference between the automatic and the 5-speed. The 5-speed has plenty of power. It's not a power difference, it's the gearing between the vehicles: the automatic is geared much taller, presumably in an effort to get better gas mileage. The 5-speed was engineered to have the most "scoot".

That doesn't help you, of course, because you've already bought -- but if someone's reading this and deciding which to go for, it might help them make up their mind -- the 5-speed is much more powerful and dramatically faster than the auto (8.1 vs. 10.5 in 0-60, 16 sec vs. 19 sec in 1/4-mile) but the auto gets a fraction better gas mileage and also the convenience of an automatic.

With that said, more power is always welcome! Nitrous oxide kits are as low as $500, might make for some wide-open-throttle highway passing power... any foolhardy enough to try it? 8)

I bought mine before the 5-speed 4WD came out...otherwise I would have gotten that one. I wanted the 4WD but my only option was auto... :(

<2. More power is a two-edged sword. It usually means that fuel economy suffers, and already we have folks here with legit gripes about sub-20 mpg.>

So the thread here is MORE power for all you lead footed, power hungry motorheads, who have to drive 80 OR MORE on freeways to get to work faster using surperchargers, turbochargers, bigger intakes, and the desire for a 200 hp engine.

To witt, I respond; Bull$h*t!! (see also, cow crap, horse hockey, bull cookies, doo-doo, ca ca and good old number 2! Not to forget Crapola!

I stand that the E needs BETTER gas mileage, because I get diddly gas mileage. Sure you all can put LOTS of money and get bigger this and bigger that to get your engine to perform like a dragster, funny car, or pro stock racer. Makes me wonder if some of you are old enought to remember the 60s and the muscle car era. You'd have enough horsepower and performance alright! But then you'd prolly be looking for MORE. Or looking for more mileage per gallon from a road rocket! I once had a Dodge 318 with a quadra-jet 4 barrel carb ex-Sheriff's law enforcement vehicle that had performance like a scalded ape, but got only 5 miles per gal around town. I'd like to get SOMETHING (without having to spend boo-quoo money) that will get better gas mileage on this HONDA because it is another HONDA, after all.

Ger

But then again, I guess that most of you are thinking that I do not need to frequent this thread any because I am so negative about power and up about gas mileage. Maybe I need to not visit anymore and you wont have to hear me pissing and moaning about it.

Ger

Ger, piss and moan all you want. With today's technology you can have fuel efficiency and power.

Look at APEX'i. They have the new V-AFC, with i-VTEC control. It allows you to maintain TWO maps. Let's say you decide you're going to need power. Load the Power map. Let's say you want gas mileage. Load a different map.

Regardless of whatever you think about gas mileage in an Element, if you wanted gas mileage, you should have bought something that weighed less. Buy a Civic Hybrid or an Insight. Instead, you chose to buy an SUV-type vehicle, and you're going to have to suffer regardless.

Matt, call up Level 10 and get that tranny dropped and worked on. I think we both are craving some boost.

Honda or not, you don't buy 4000lb Element for gas mileage...:roll:

Go buy a 1994 Civic CX so you can get 30mpg. If I honestly gave a rats ass about gas mileage, I'd say so, but I don't...

I want more power. I want more scoot...I want to be able to keep up with traffic without having to mash the gas.

I think that the one thing the E would have is one more freaking gear, a 6th would be fine....as far as the power goes...I think for the size vehicle is adequate and I have a question for those with an auto 4wheel drive , is you vehicle heavier therefore slower??....I drove to and back from NY and can say with 3 adults, two 60lbs suitcases the E moved right along cruising at 80mph and over averaging 22mpg...not bad uh?...so Matt any pics??..from Vegas...

HEK, holy ****. You want pics? Go to HV, and check the SEMA thread...we have over 1000 pics, and TRUST ME, you will like them...if you know what I mean.. :wink:

I have an AWD AT and the Injen intake. I am very happy. Sounds good too. :D


Also considering a modified exhaust. However, I have found with my current set up I have no problem doing 90 if I dont watch the speedo religiously. And trust me, I am not a speed demon. I am sure there is more to go after that.

Check it out.

8)
Amy

It's not the act of doing 90 that I have a problem with. I too found myself doing 90 or so a lot of the time, without even noticing it. All Elements can do that speed, and higher. What I am interested in, is the time it takes to get from X to X, rather than just the act of being able to do X. Ya know? This became an issue when I had a hard time passing cars, because the get up and go...got up, and went...???

If i want to more powerful engine for the E. The new Honda i-CTDi engine design for Euro Accord will be my dream choice. It is not a fast engine, but a POWERFUL one. I don't need my E fast. Everyone know it is a big box. If I want a fast and good handling Honda, I will get a Civic SiR, RSX or S2000. For the E, I want "utility" power. This new 2.2-litre, 16-valve, twin-cam, direct-injection, common-rail turbodiesel with twin balancer shafts engine has 140hp. BUT the Torque is 251lb ft!! People now can't say Honda has no torque. And the BEST thing is this engine will give you 52.3mpg!!! Honda also complete eliminate the "idle vibrating sound" found on all other diesel engine.

I really hope Honda will bring this engine to North American and specially bring it for Element because this will be a PERFECT engine for it.

Shoot... article too big... i just make a link instead...
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?domain=evo&page=http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/driven/driven_story.php?nid=20031008121358

I see you found the post-size limit as well. :(

-brendan

This announcement is very nice, but it means squat for the North American market. Diesels comprise 50% of the European new car market, and that share is growing. Honda was getting squeezed out because they had nothing to offer.

Generally speaking, U.S. car buyers hate diesels. You don't gear-up to produce and distribute an optional drivetrain that appeals to less than 1% of your prospective market.

While count me as one of that <1%, I think Heck will freeze over first before Honda offers that power plant here at all, much less in the E. :?