Honda's New Insight Hybrid [Archive] - Honda Element Owners Club Forum

: Honda's New Insight Hybrid


Dom.five
01-11-2009, 08:54 AM
Honda to launch Insight hybrid in Japan in Feb

By Chang-Ran Kim, Asia autos correspondent Chang-ran Kim, Asia Autos Correspondent 32 mins ago
DETROIT (Reuters) – Honda Motor Co will begin selling the Insight, the first of its next generation low-cost hybrid cars, in Japan in February, followed by launches in Europe and the United States in March and April.
The dedicated hybrid model, a production version of which made its debut at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit on Sunday, has listed mileage of 40 miles per gallon in city driving and 43 mpg on the highway in the United States.
But Yasunari Seki, the Insight's chief engineer, said it has proven potential of as much as 72 mpg, or about 30 km/liter, aided by an "eco-lamp" color meter that goes from shades of blue to green to prompt fuel-efficient driving.
"We had a contest for journalists test-driving it on a course last month and the winner got 72 mpg," Seki told Reuters ahead of the auto show, which opened to the press on Sunday.
Japan's No. 2 automaker has said the five-door, five-seater Insight was its first true attempt to mass-market gasoline-electric hybrid cars, which twin an electric motor and a conventional engine to boost mileage.
Honda launched its first hybrid, also called the Insight, in 1999 and added the fuel-saving system to existing models such as the Accord and Civic. But the cars were deemed underpowered, especially compared with Toyota Motor Corp's hot-selling Prius. Honda eventually discontinued production of all but the Civic hybrid model.
In the past decade, Honda has sold about 300,000 hybrid cars against 1.7 million for Toyota, which was just two years ahead with its first hybrid.
Toyota is also launching two new hybrid cars at the Detroit auto show -- the third-generation Prius and the Lexus luxury brand's first dedicated hybrid model.
But the launches come at a bad time.
Gasoline prices have fallen below half last year's record high of over $4 a gallon. A dearth of credit availability and an economic crisis have also hammered global demand for cars.
"It's not the best timing," said Seki, who agreed with Honda CEO Takeo Fukui's view that reaching the Insight's global sales target of 200,000 units a year might be tough.
Seki said that for hybrids to be a "no-brainer" for consumers looking to save at the pump, a technological breakthrough was needed to improve the hybrid system.
That meant, for example, halving the system's cost, now mostly tied to the battery, or getting more output from the same number of battery modules, he said.
Honda roughly halved the cost of the system for the new Insight, which is due to be followed by a family of affordable gasoline-electric cars including a compact sports car, the Fit subcompact, a next-generation Civic hybrid, and others.
Honda has said it would price the Insight below 2 million yen ($22,140) in Japan, or about $5,000 cheaper than the Civic hybrid. It did not disclose the pricing for the North American market, where it wants to sell half of the new Insights.
"It would depend a lot on the exchange rate," Seki said.
Despite the tough sales conditions and cheaper gasoline, Seki said the consumer trend toward fuel-efficient vehicles was solid in the long-run given the exhaustible supply of fossil fuels.
"In Japan, gasoline prices have fallen to about half their peak, and yet a lot of gasoline stands are folding and demand isn't returning," he said. "I think that's based on consumers' belief that eventually, gasoline prices will rise again, and in that respect they would be looking for fuel efficiency."
(Reporting by Chang-Ran Kim, editing by Peter Bohan)

Link to Photo's ! (http://jalopnik.com/5128524/2010-honda-insight-first-drive?skyline=true&s=i)

Honda sight Photo's (http://automobiles.honda.com/insight-hybrid/)

Take a look at the slick USB interface! I love the dash setup !

It looks like it has good space inside as well.

Dom

MikeQBF
01-11-2009, 09:50 AM
I just compared the LX vs EX, and the only notable differences in the feature sets are cruise control and ASC, both lacking in the LX. Other than trim bits or the nav package as an option, everything else is identical.

$2000 more just to get CC? And I can't have CC without ASC?

This is a load of ****, Honda. :x I'll be hanging on to my HCH for a while.

Dom.five
01-11-2009, 06:50 PM
I just compared the LX vs EX, and the only notable differences in the feature sets are cruise control and ASC, both lacking in the LX. Other than trim bits or the nav package as an option, everything else is identical.

$2000 more just to get CC? And I can't have CC without ASC?

This is a load of ****, Honda. :x I'll be hanging on to my HCH for a while.


I was hoping you would chime in!

I was thinking the same thing. However that does not detract from the interior layout, from my prospective.

There are shortcomings to all designs. You and I are more than familiar with several from past vehicles. There will never be a perfect " car " for everyone. Unless The Big three puts all that bailout money into mass brainwashing! :razz: Then whatever they offer will be oh so special!

I think that this is a big step for Honda. Some of the features offered only in the Higher priced brand of there line, are offered under the Honda nameplate.

I hope that thinking migrates to the other models in the lineup ( Read ELEMENT ) .

Dom

MikeQBF
01-11-2009, 07:22 PM
That little feature-set faux pas really took me aback. I'm still sitting here shaking my head at "What were they thinking??!?"

In other news...

I'm not entirely certain I like the similarity to the Prius. Yes, there is that argument that the same aero priorities are going to yield the same result, but it looks (to me) like that Honda's design team "went derivative" on us. Come on, even down to the two-piece rear windshield? Can't you be more original than that?

I also cringed a little at the "efficiency gauge" in the middle of the tach. The most annoying bit to me with the Prius (which un-sold me on it) was the video-game aspect of the dash. Too Much (useless) Information. But this thinking apparently crept into the Honda design.

While the HCH was too anonymous as a hybrid, to go out and just copy the conspicuous Prius design details to make the "me, too!" statement is a bit silly.

spdrcr5
01-11-2009, 08:25 PM
that's certainly a Honda Prius, but that rear double window is not a knock-off of a Toyota innovation. That split rear window was first seen on the 2nd Gen Honda CR-X. It was a stupid design idea then and is stupid now. It's called lazy engineering IMO.

Honda is going to get ripped apart by the 1mil+ Prius owners out there and all of those people who lust after one. The Honda fans should be fairly satisfied with the basic design because it's a semi honda design.

As for the differences between the LX and EX, it seems about normal differences from other Honda LX/EX's.

Here's the differences I am seeing that the EX gets over the LX:

Paddle Shifters for the CVT Tranny
Alloy wheels vs steel/hub caps
VSA (traction control)
Heated side mirrors w/integrated turn signals
Optional NAV and Bluetooth Handsfree
Cruise Control
6 (EX) vs 8 (LX) cup holders
seat back pockets
vanity mirrors (Driver and Passenger)
Map Lights
6 speaker stereo vs 4 speakers

I think for the average person that is plenty to differentiate the two models. If it were me looking for one of these, I would get the LX... can't stand VSA and that alone would steer me away from the EX. I could live without the cruise and the other stuff.

MikeQBF
01-12-2009, 04:31 PM
This amused me greatly. Ignore the "H" on the grille... tell me which is the new Prius (announced today), and which is the new Insight. The Prius weenies are going to go ballistic about product confusion.

Twilightzero
01-12-2009, 04:47 PM
I also cringed a little at the "efficiency gauge" in the middle of the tach.

It's actually borrowed from the FCX Clarity as seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J25S948uJPw

I think Honda's trying to start getting people used to the idea so it's not a big surprise/shock for the hydrogen/whatever vehicles that come out later when fuel efficiency really DOES matter.

Jynx
01-15-2009, 06:00 AM
Come on, even down to the two-piece rear windshield? Can't you be more original than that?


that's certainly a Honda Prius, but that rear double window is not a knock-off of a Toyota innovation. That split rear window was first seen on the 2nd Gen Honda CR-X. It was a stupid design idea then and is stupid now. It's called lazy engineering IMO.


Lazy engineering? That is called a cam back design as is extremely functional. Look into it and study up your fluid dynamics. It was first seen on the 1985 1st gen CRX.

The design is genius. Look at the drag coefficients of the cars out today. The Insight and CRX's are some of the best. Especially for a regular car. The one that do better are 3 wheelers or of some unconventional design. It is far from lazy engineering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficients

http://www.jimcook.com/cl/85crx_whi_lr.jpg

Dom.five
01-15-2009, 07:41 AM
That's true from an Engineering prospective on drag. I believe they were referring to the aesthetics of the design aspect. Not the efficiency of the design in terms of drag.

It is interesting to note that the Pontiac Trans Am, and the F-40 had the same Drag coefficient.:) The size differential between them is enormous.

Dom

MikeQBF
01-15-2009, 07:46 AM
Lazy engineering? That is called a cam back design as is extremely functional. Look into it and study up your fluid dynamics. It was first seen on the 1985 1st gen CRX. ... It is far from lazy engineering.

Uhhhhhhhh... it's spelled Kammback, after Wunibald Kamm. Did I say lazy engineering? No, I didn't. But lazy, derivative product design, absolutely.

Dom.five
01-15-2009, 08:00 AM
Oh I don't know Mike. I've liked that design for a wile!

1951 Studebaker Starlite Coupe

Is still one of my favorite cars..


Gotta love the doors on the 4 door model's.

Photo's Here.
(http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Studebaker/TheEnd.html)
Go for a Ride in a 61 Hawk (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=1961Hawk)

Dom

E_BikeR
01-15-2009, 01:23 PM
What is Honda thinking? One more great concept vehicle shot to hell in a final product. The concept had class!

Why does every hybrid seem to need little bitty wheels and tires too? looks like a matchbox toy.

Keep an eye on the CR-Z, and the FC sport. http://automobiles.honda.com/fc-sport/ These will NEVER make it in anything close to the concept car. Why does concept never make it? Material costs, or is it determined by the manufacturer that the design is too radical?

WE NEED MORE RADICAL DESIGNS!!!!!! The industry has become a snoozer.

Kira
01-20-2009, 07:05 PM
bleh. the back end looks like a prius, and the front a civic. I love the civic, but why couldn't they shape the car to have some personality of its own.

ZOMBIEinvader
01-20-2009, 07:48 PM
I hope to get a peek at the Detroit Auto Show. If I make it!
I like the minimalist look. Thats why the E appealed to me. I think the new Insight will be what a certain niche looks for if its priced accordingly.

ZOMBIEinvader
02-18-2009, 01:01 PM
I just read this in the Times. If they can keep the base price below $20000 it could sell.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/automobiles/autoreviews/15honda-insight.html?_r=1&nl=wheels&emc=wheelsa2

ZOMBIEinvader
02-24-2009, 02:13 PM
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/24/honda-to-increase-hybrid-production/?nl=wheels&emc=wheelsa1

Spam16v
02-24-2009, 03:35 PM
I just compared the LX vs EX, and the only notable differences in the feature sets are cruise control and ASC, both lacking in the LX. Other than trim bits or the nav package as an option, everything else is identical.

$2000 more just to get CC? And I can't have CC without ASC?

This is a load of ****, Honda. :x I'll be hanging on to my HCH for a while.

singing to the choir, but in their defense, the average consumer needs ASC... soccer mom has a lot on her plate, with the makeup, crossword and checking her email on her iphone.

g2ichris
05-14-2009, 01:22 PM
That little feature-set faux pas really took me aback. I'm still sitting here shaking my head at "What were they thinking??!?"

In other news...

I'm not entirely certain I like the similarity to the Prius. Yes, there is that argument that the same aero priorities are going to yield the same result, but it looks (to me) like that Honda's design team "went derivative" on us. Come on, even down to the two-piece rear windshield? Can't you be more original than that?

While the HCH was too anonymous as a hybrid, to go out and just copy the conspicuous Prius design details to make the "me, too!" statement is a bit silly.

GUYS!
Honda came out with the split rear BEFORE Toyota!
the 1999 Honda Insight had the flat rear, Toyota copied honda.
the 1980's CRX had the flat rear, as did the 1999 insight!
What came first? The Honda or the Prius? HONDA!

....geez

spdrcr5
05-14-2009, 01:36 PM
GUYS!
Honda came out with the split rear BEFORE Toyota!
the 1999 Honda Insight had the flat rear, Toyota copied honda.
the 1980's CRX had the flat rear, as did the 1999 insight!
What came first? The Honda or the Prius? HONDA!

....geez

I pointed this out in post #5.

To address my "lazy engineering" comment. The Gen 2 CRX and the new Insight are no better at coefficient of drag than something with a better designed/engineered back end. My comment was all about aesthetics and had nothing to do with an efficient design.

Take a look at the BMW 7 and 5 Series cars... beautiful cars until you look at the back end then it all goes to hell. That was all done to pass a silly TuV test of a side wind when traveling above 155mph...

There are always compromises in design, this is one that I personally have never liked and always considered a lazy approach.

MikeQBF
05-14-2009, 03:25 PM
GUYS!
Honda came out with the split rear BEFORE Toyota!
the 1999 Honda Insight had the flat rear, Toyota copied honda.
the 1980's CRX had the flat rear, as did the 1999 insight!
What came first? The Honda or the Prius? HONDA!

....geez
Now look. Did I f***** say that it was conceived on the Prius? No, I did not. What I said was that the split rear window was one of many Prius design details that were IMO copied to make damn sure that the Insight II looked like the perceived benchmark for a hybrid vehicle.

BTW, I drove one. Ick. And, actually, its most annoying feature is that rear window. I'll take my HCH II any day of the week, which gets better fuel economy, anyway.

spdrcr5
05-14-2009, 03:28 PM
BTW, I drove one. Ick. And, actually, its most annoying feature is that rear window. I'll take my HCH II any day of the week, which gets better fuel economy, anyway.

Rachel wants to get a new car and is now beginning to look at the Insight. I'd like to test drive one and see it up close. She'd be using it as her commuter car into NYC every day, she hates taking the LIRR then the Subway. Driving saves her 2+ hours on her commute every day believe it or not.

lizzurd
05-14-2009, 03:31 PM
BTW, I drove one. Ick. And, actually, its most annoying feature is that rear window. I'll take my HCH II any day of the week, which gets better fuel economy, anyway.


I was thinking about as Insight as a demo....Until i drove one. Way too much stuff going on with the dash. The ride felt on the harsh side and the drive train left a little to be desired in the refinement department. Until gas reaches the level it was a year ago i will stick with my Accord.