Quite often, when there is some stock behind the rear seats, it is near impossible to fold down the seat backs in order to clip them to the wall. Basically, the stock behind the rear seats has to be removed so that the seat backs can be folded back and subsequently raised to hang on the sides of the wall. A forward folding seatback would be a logical solution to this problem for smaller loads that don't require hanging the entire seats.

Not to mention the problem of having to remove the headrests.....

I know what you're saying about having to move the stuff in the back to fold the seat backs down to fold them up, but I always attribute it to not thinking and putting stuff in when I just KNOW I'll have to fold the seats up anyway...It's a timing thing.
As for taking the headrests off, I never do. I have a buddy with an E and he said the same thing, it's a pain in the butt removing the headrests to fold the seats up and I looked at him like he was crazy. I had never removed my headrests and I always have at least one seat folded to the wall...He tried it and sho 'nuff...As long as you fold the seat back as far as it will go, the headrests can stay on.

I used to think that I had to move stuff out from behind the rear seats in order to fold them - not true. You move the seat back until it touches whatever is behind it, then lift the seat. Hold the seat up with your knee and pull the strap to flatten the seat as you push it up against the side of your E. As long as the headrest is in its lowest position, the seat should fold flat, allowing you to clip on. This sounds harder than it is, and takes a bit of practice, but since the seat is padded it's not even that uncomfortable.

I suppose if you had a lot of stuff piled up behind the seats, this wouldn't work - but I have a fair amount of baggage back there and this technique works fine.

If the seat folded forward, you couldn't lay it flat against the wall while up. They would have to redesign them completely and if they were able to make it happen, the seat would stick out twice as far when folded up. Not good IMO.

[quote:f77926f1c4=" "]If the seat folded forward, you couldn't lay it flat against the wall while up. They would have to redesign them completely and if they were able to make it happen, the seat would stick out twice as far when folded up. Not good IMO.[/quote:f77926f1c4]

Actually,not really. The rear seat backs pivot on a radial hinge design. All that would be required would be a larger radius hinge and a slightly lower seat back. As it is, the seat back can be trimmed a bit.

In addition to our spiffy new NBPAWDEXAT, we also have a 1995 Mitsubishi Montero (the big Montero) and it has flip-up seats in the third row. The seat backs fall forward onto the seat base and the whole doubled-up thing swings up against the rear window and clips on a handle.

The system in the Element is superior. While it seems that the few extra inches consumed by the folded-over seat would be negligible, that 8-10 inches really does make a difference when loading bulky items (dressers, desks, etc.). Our solution was to simply remove those seats entirely.

jen

[quote:f1c4d6ad93=" "]Our solution was to simply remove those seats entirely.[/quote:f1c4d6ad93]

Jen, I hear ya. But, does it make sense to remove a seat for a quick drive from Home Depot to your house for something as silly as (ex: a boxed toilet bowl less the tank)?

Andy -

I know. The difference is those seats are the third row in the Montero and the second row in the Element. When DH took over driving the Montero daily, he just removed the third-row seats and stowed them in the basement. They're never used anyway.

I guess we haven't really used the Element to it's full potential yet. Having the grubby Montero available with more room in the back means we take it to Home Depot every time, and not the Element.

Once the Montero leaves our fold (not for another year or so) the Element will get the true test.

[quote:ccbeec300b="jakabedy"]I guess we haven't really used the Element to it's full potential yet. Having the grubby Montero available with more room in the back means we take it to Home Depot every time, and not the Element.

Once the Montero leaves our fold (not for another year or so) the Element will get the true test.[/quote:ccbeec300b]

My wife & I had a very similar scenario going - we used her Grand Caravan more often. And this was primarily because she doesn't get the smoke in my E (http://www.2dolphins.com/element.htm) - whereas the Dodge was fair game - and also had a little something to do with a nasty streak of "control freak" that she's working to conquer - she hates to be a passenger.

Things have a taken a radical turn recently, however, since I indulged her midlife crisis pangs and we traded the Grand Caravan for a hot little '04 Volkswagen New Beetle Convertible Turbo 4 weeks ago. Her new car (http://www.2dolphins.com/caliente.htm), Caliente is quite comfy - it has considerably more passenger-side legroom than the Element and the signature arched roofline gives it almost as much headroom as my E (http://www.2dolphins.com/element.htm). And. while I'm still impressed with how peppy my E (http://www.2dolphins.com/element.htm) is, her Turbo kicks some serious butt!

Ah, but the trunkspace on a VW NBC? Two words: glove box. So, the E (http://www.2dolphins.com/element.htm) is now being used as the real workhorse vehicle since it can haul boatloads o' stuff and very comfortably accomodate 2 back-seat passengers. I had flipped up the seats a few times before - mostly for demo purposes - but now I'm an old pro. :D