-eMass,

[First, thanks for the tremendous volume of information you've put online here to help us noobs.]

First some history...

Not liking the high/low/no middle sound in the stock E audio system, and being one who listens to the radio for hours every day, I decided to try and do better than factory. First, I changed out the speakers -- I went with the Infinity components in the front and infinity coaxials in the rear that were heavily hyped here about 6 months ago.

That didn't sound all that much better, so I changed out the head unit and put in a Pioneer Premier DEH-P940MP. I chose that head unit because it seemed to have the most equalizer flexibility, multi-aux capability and if I switch to external amps, I can control the crossovers digitally in the head unit. On top of it all, I'm a sucker for OLEDs.

I have the front output (50W at 4ohm) running to the Inifnity crossover and then to the factory door and tweeter locations. The rear outs (50W at 4ohm) go to the rear doors. The subwoffer out (6.5V/100ohm) goes straight into the Honda amp to drive the factory subwoffer.

I had to turn down the subwoffer output significantly to keep it from booming too severely. This worked, but I find that I have to tweak it sometimes when changing the audio source. The Pioneer auto-calibrated to send an inverted phase signal to the sub, but that didn't sound very clean so I changed it to normal phase. I have also played around with the low-pass filter on the sub and the high-pass filters front and rear to eliminate distortion in my door speakers.

Anyway, things are better, but I still think the sound is poor and lacks the rich middle-frequency sounds (strings, accoustics) that I am such a fan of.

Looking at your posting in which you detail your system, I became very interested in trying out the Focal 165Ks in place of my Infinity components in the front. I like the thought of a dedicated mid-range speaker in the front doors.

Here are the questions that I am wrestling with:

1.) The 165K has been replaced with the 165KP. Is there anything to be worried about in this? Specifically the 6.5" driver is called a "woofer" instead of a "midrange." That worries me a bit.

2.) The 165K2P is now the same depth as the 165KP (71mm). That means it should fit in the door cavity (the old 165K2 was 77mm). Does $100 just get me chrome domes or is there some substance there?

3.) Should I consider the 165K3P (3-way) and find a way to fit the 77mm deep woofers in the back doors? I like the thought of a 3-way speaker system and I don't care what it sounds like to rear passengers.

4.) Should I be using the RCA->Line level adapter between the head unit and amp or am I OK to just turn down the output level in the head unit as I am doing now?

5.) If I use the 165KP speakers, which are rated at 80W nominal, do I stand some chance of getting good sound out of them with the 50W outputs from my head unit or must I go to an external amp?

As you can see I'm bouncing around several ideas. Feel free to add your own.

Thanks for your time and sharing your expertise!

-darren

Oh, one more thing I almost forgot...

I think the sound in my Accord and Pilot (factory in both cases) is enhanced by the fact that the tweeters are at the base of the windshield pointing up. The audio reflects nicely back at the listener and seems to create a better soundstage because of the good separation between right and left.

In the E, the tweeters are basically pointing right at each other and I don't get the stereo effect to the same degree.

My qeustion is: do you think I could (or should) mount the tweeters in the dash at the base of the windshield pointing up? I'm affraid that the airbag on the passenger's side is going to make this impossible, though. Do you have any other suggestions for getting the high-frequency sound directed more at the listeners?

-darren

[quote:2d86b33520=" "]
1.) The 165K has been replaced with the 165KP. Is there anything to be worried about in this? Specifically the 6.5" driver is called a "woofer" instead of a "midrange." That worries me a bit.

No worries on the 165KP's but if you look around a bit on the web, you might be able to get a really good price on some holdover stock 165 K's.

2.) The 165K2P is now the same depth as the 165KP (71mm). That means it should fit in the door cavity (the old 165K2 was 77mm). Does $100 just get me chrome domes or is there some substance there?

Well the K2's had a little bit better crossover and slightly better tweets so I would expect that the new series is following the same tradition.

3.) Should I consider the 165K3P (3-way) and find a way to fit the 77mm deep woofers in the back doors? I like the thought of a 3-way speaker system and I don't care what it sounds like to rear passengers.

Are you saying you'll put one speaker in the back door one in the front and the tweet in the dash? Bad idea. If you want the 3 ways, you MIGHT be able to custom build a fiberglass 2 speaker pod on to the door and put the tweet on the dash. Avoid any other plan because the imaging will get ugly.

4.) Should I be using the RCA->Line level adapter between the head unit and amp or am I OK to just turn down the output level in the head unit as I am doing now?

That's what the adapter is for. I should stress however that if you want to run high end components like Focal drivers, etc, that you invest in a good amp and bypass the factory one all together. You run the risk of ruining the component speakers by uunderdriving them and generating too much heat which kills speakers.

5.) If I use the 165KP speakers, which are rated at 80W nominal, do I stand some chance of getting good sound out of them with the 50W outputs from my head unit or must I go to an external amp?

See response to #4.

-darren[/quote:2d86b33520]

[quote:da4f41076b=" "]Oh, one more thing I almost forgot...

I think the sound in my Accord and Pilot (factory in both cases) is enhanced by the fact that the tweeters are at the base of the windshield pointing up. The audio reflects nicely back at the listener and seems to create a better soundstage because of the good separation between right and left.

In the E, the tweeters are basically pointing right at each other and I don't get the stereo effect to the same degree.

My qeustion is: do you think I could (or should) mount the tweeters in the dash at the base of the windshield pointing up? I'm affraid that the airbag on the passenger's side is going to make this impossible, though. Do you have any other suggestions for getting the high-frequency sound directed more at the listeners?

-darren[/quote:da4f41076b]

First, the factory position sucks, they do point right at eachother and this is bad as you point out - you get some cancellation, the time alignment is bad (they sound out of phase) plus they are overly bright in this configuration.

What you propose is better, and you'll want to try pointing them at the dome light to start in order to achieve a pretty good sound, but based on the corner position, you'll get very bright highs so you will have to experiment with different positions and cutoff points in order to achieve a balanced sound.

My configuration uses the stock pillar location which cuts down on the reflectivness with custom brackets so the tweeters are pointed at the rear view mirror for time alignment and presence. I think that it works pretty good with the Focal highs in the middle cutoff setting.

In a big empty cabin like in the E, mid bass DIES - tweets and subs seem fine however. That's why I chose to put mid bass drivers in the back doors to fill out the mid range a bit more.

YMMV, especially with different power amps, head units, and pre-out voltages.

-eMass,

Thanks for taking the time to reply in detail. I will avoid separating the bass and midrange between the doors. The only reason I thought of that is that my Accord has an arrangement like that (woofers in the rear deck) and it sounds pretty good for factory. I think I'll be going with the K2Ps.

I found a source for the K model, but they just raised their price 15% presumably because of changes in the currency market. This raises a question. With the exchange rate making French products 30% more expensive than a year ago, is the Focal still the best choice for the money or would you be considering a different model today?

It sounds like I need to plan for an amp to drive the focals, but assuming that I keep the stock subwoffer for now, can I continue to use the factory amp for this?

To clarify, at the moment I am just using the factory amp on the factory sub. I'm driving the door speakers off the head unit.

I don't know much about subs so I don't know how to rate the factory sub, but it sounds OK to me. If I change it out I would like to use the JL stealthbox to keep it in the current location, but that won't be available until "the first weekend in January."

Thanks for the help!

-darren