Has anyone bought an Element with the fog lights? What do you think of them??

Has anyone attempted to install them afterwards? How difficult was it. I pulled the instuctions off the web and it doesn't look too easy.

Hmrjr,

We bought the fog lights. I had checked out the instructions before I told the dealer to go and do it.

I don't like paying extra for the dealer to make money, but in this case I thought it was the way to go. You have so much to take off, if just seemed like the time I would have to put in, was just not worth it to me money wise.

My wife and I drive from Maine down to Virginia, and thru PA, so across the Northeast, Mid atlantic, etc. We like having fog lights. We just got our Element a few weeks back, and have not run into any fog, yet. They seem to be good, but a bit unprotected from road dangers. I guess after our frist few trips, I will know a bit more about them.

I have the fog lights -- not because I necessarily needed them, but just because I found the plastic spots/holes in the front of the car a little annoying and really wanted to make sure I put something there. I think it looks a lot better with the fog lights and that they are a good investment as an option. Just my opinion, but, i've been happy with them.

I do agree that they don't look that well protected and I have heard that someone's light was broken after merely a week of use because a rock bounced up and hit it. I just hope that I don't have that unlucky experience anytime soon because they weren't that cheap. I also think that having someone intall them professionally is a good idea. I know that I was held up from picking my E up because the wiring and installation of them was taking longer then the techs had anticipated.

Hope this all helps.

I went with Fog Lights too. But they are not in yet, they will be letting me know when all my accessories are in so everything can be done at once. So I have a naked Element for now :oops:

I had fog lights on my prelude many moons ago, and it made a huge difference, I loved them. Since the Integra I have does not have them and i sure did miss them.

I also got them cause the empty dents do look weird with out them!

Since I don't have them yet and I drive on some dark roads, I live conveniently near a statepark, with a gorgeous dark road. The head lights (with out turning on high beams) is like day light, wow.. the head lights are amazing on this vehicle.. so seems like the fogs will be ornamental only.

As far as the breaking, there should be some kind of impact plastic cover, or perhaps the light grills that can go over off road headlights not sure if they make them for the fogs but worth looking into to keep them from breaking, i will keep my eyes open and if I find them I willpost it here!

Good luck!

The stock Honda fog lights are made of the same material as the head lights, lexan plastic. As far as installing them yourself you do need to remove the front bumper cover and cut the holes out with a rotary tool. I would not recomend doing this yourself as you will void the warranty.

PSKBEAR: I am getting mine dealer installed.. but how about peoples who do have the materials and know how to do the work, that you feel would be kosher right?

Even if you have the wherewithall and tools to do the job right. You can still void the warranty. Case in point; a service customer brought in their 02 acc. Inside of which was an aftermarket radio. The car drove fine, until he put it in drive. The installation was done incorrectly and he fried his ecu. OUCH!! So, $1150.00 later he had his car back and no electrical warranty to go along with it. Am I saying if you install a cargo cover and your tailights blow you're not covered? No. But any warranty issue arizing from a home installed product might void certain warranties. As I've said, have fun just be careful. 8)

That is an excellent example thank you!

Like I have said all my drilling & electical add ons are being done by my dealer (eventually, as soon as they get stuff in.. sigh) but Yeah that is why I am having them do it, to avoid major boo-boos to such an investment as a car is..

Again thank you & that is a super example!

As a Parts Manager and a Warranty Admin. for a Honda Dealership, I can offer the following info. regarding accesory purchase, installation, and warranty. If the dealer installs the accessory at the time of retail purchase, the accessory is covered for 3yr/36k. If the dealer installs the accessory after retail delivery It is covered 12m/12k parts and labor. The exception to this is audio equipment which is covered to the end of the3yr/ 36k.Over the counter purchases are covered for 12mo.
Customers installing accessory items themselves do not jeopardize their warranty unless the installation of that item was the cause of a failure to that item, or can be attributed to the failure of a related item.
I hope this answers questions many of you have regarding this issue.

Thanks for the helpful Information.

hondapartsmgr: Thank you very, very much for helping with that issue.. Thank you also for joining us!

I am looking in to installing a Honda factory foglight kit on a Honda Element. Is it worth the trouble for a layman? Any thoughts? Suggestions? Insights?
Thanks!

if you take your time, it isn't very difficult. Removing the front end consists of removing 4 bolts, 18 plastic clips and two self tapping screws. Don't break the clips! Cutting out the openings was easy using a Unibit to drill the 3 holes and then I cut the round openings with a sharp #11 blade in my Exacto knife. Be careful! Take your time routing the front wiring harness and reinstall the front end. It is NOT necessary to remove the negative terminal for this step. When you're ready for the under dash wiring harness, then disconnect the battery and go for it. Again, if you take it one step at time, you shouldn't have any trouble.

How did you remove the clips for the front end? It doesn't sound too hard, but it would be good to know what the right tool is!

from a large pair of tweezers, with the ends cut off to the same size as the plastic clips and then bent inward and filed down fairly thin. This allows them to fit under the plastic pin in the center of the clip on two sides and then pull them out.

Oh, hey Utahrex! Didn't recognize you, there. Yes, now I remember that post. Here's an image for everyone else:

http://www.hondaelement.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=5706

[quote:6dcd74b2f2="utahrex"] ...I have also installed the trailer hitch and wiring harness... :wink:[/quote:6dcd74b2f2]

Utahrex -- I'm thinking about a trailer hitch, but I'm concerned that I'll lose valuable minimum clearance under the Element and also departure angle on the back end. Although the Element is not an offroad vehicle, I'll be taking on some rough roads with steep pitches.

Does this hitch impede the clearance or departure angle?

is about 6" below the bumper. I suppose you might lose a little clearance, but I can't see how you would hang up on it. Shouldn't be a problem. :wink:

Remember, the E isn't a true offroad vehicle........be careful where you try to go.

I would not attempt to do the fog lights myself. I work at a dealership and see what they have to do to install them. I paid the labor for the trained guys to do it. That way if they mess something up. The dealership will fix it. Don't even get me started on the tow package wiring.

Fog lights installation could be a pain to install...Because on some cars(Accord for example) you need to remove the plastic bumper cover,and as far as I know , some vehicles would require cutting.And unless you really know what you are doing,(how many people would cut in a 22 grand ride ?) have someone that was trained to do this one. On top of that, Honda covers the accessories installed by the dealer with the new car warranty (3yr/36 k).Otherwise,if you buy it later,the accessories would come with 1 yr/12k warranty. If you screw something up,you d get nothing.

Go to the dealer, that way they are covered in the warranty for at least a year. Just a thought...

Hey, if you guys can't handle it, that's okay, but don't discourage others who may want to save some serious bucks and do it themselves. I and several others have already done it and had no problems. Honda mechanics don't have Ph.D's and anyone with a modicum of mechanical ability and common sense should be able to handle it. :roll:

I ordered the fog lights when I bought my Element and waited a month for them to come in as the dealer said they were on backorder. Once they arrived, I let the dealer install the kit since I paid for it when I purchased the vehicle. This is where you opinion will determine whether or not you want to try this yourself. My dealer has now ordered me a new bumper as when they installed the fog lights, they scratched the bumper up really badly and made a seriously pathetic attempt at getting the cuts smooth and even. :evil: So, I suppose this means that either you can let the dealer do it if you feel you can't be careful enough and let them replace things they screw up... or you could do it yourslef and be extra careful and know that you might not damage anything in the process. Tough decision when you see it this way, but I think I would still let the dealer do it as the bumper costs more than the labor to have the dealer install the kit and pay for damages they may cause. This is not to discourage anyone, just to let you know about my experience with this topic.

does anyone know if the fog light switch symbol lights up similar to the cruise word on the main cuise control button. i see that my fog light button's indicator light illuminates when it is pushed but that is it. i would think that the symbol would light for obvious reason.

any replay would be appreciated.

thanks.

turn on the dash lights and find out for yourself. The switch should illuminate the fog light symbol and if you push the switch, the indicator should light up. What's the question? :?

illuminate when i turn on any of the lighting selection - parking, lowbeam. i am curious if the dealer installed the button incorrectly and even more curious if other people with the fog light option can verify that their fog light symbol lights or does not light.

that is the queations.....

I get a little concerned when dealers play on people's fears of having thier warranty voided regarding installation and use of aftermarket accessories. i especially have a problem with a Dealer when they tell customers they could have thier warranty voided (or even reduced) by installing FACTORY accessories themselves. :x

The truth of the matter is that there are laws protecting you from such Dealers...

Federal law sets forth requirements for warranties and contains a number of provisions to prevent vehicle manufacturers, dealers and others from unjustly denying warranty coverage. With regard to aftermarket parts, the spirit of the law is that warranty coverage cannot be denied simply because such parts are present on the vehicle, or have been used (see Attachment A). The warranty coverage can be denied only if the aftermarket part caused the malfunction or damage for which warranty coverage is sought. Disputes in this area usually boil down to arguments over facts and technical opinions, rather than arguments over interpretations of the law.

Please take the time to read "The Consumers Bill of Rights" at: http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=8123

Know your rights, and don't be afraid of your Dealer. :)

It took Honda exactly 4 weeks to get them in to my dealer. But they installed them in about 3 hours and they look awesome. Well worth the wait, Is the sun down yet? I can't wait!

Napa part#735-4063 there made by APC look quite good installed and only half the price of the dealers

hi !!!
I've just install my fog lights (originals) myself and it was quite easy.
I think that anyone reading the instructions carefully and taking his time doing the job can do it without any problems.
Just be carefull when you cut the holes....i've done it with an Olfa knife and it went real good.
For the wiring, you can't go wrong.
It's been made to fit on the E so just follow the instructions and everything will be all right.
If you guys have any questions feel free to ask !!!

Good luck !!!

I finally installed my fog lights. I took pictures to help folks decide if they want to bite this off theirselves, have the dealer do it, or not at all. It really wasn't very difficult at all.

:arrow: http://www.derekknight.com/element/pic-foglights.html

http://www.derekknight.com/element/foglights/fog-element-no-bumper.jpg

this is a great job you did right there man.
I was so excited to install my fogs and my remote starter that i completly forgot to take any pics.
Fortunately you did, it help to have a chance to see.
Anyway...if any of you guys have questions just ask and i'll be happy to help you out the best i can !!!

E owners are cool !!! 8)

Oh yeah !!! by the way...i do recommend thse fog lights.
They are killer fogs.
The kit is really well done.
And if you plan to change the light bulbs of the fogs to match up your new headlights bulbs...do it before installing cuz after it's a pain in the ass.

I just recentlly purchased and installed an EOM fog lights on my E myself. I was really surprised with all the hardware (except the dang swicth) that was included with the fog light kit, down to the tie starps, bolt, wire, etc.... and the instruction I down loaded on the net. It took me about 3 hours to install with long ganja brake. Its really easy to install if you fallow the installation instruction step by step. The reason why I did it my self is I got my Element with some accessories mud flap, side steps, & rear bug deflector and the dealer pretty much raped! me on the cost...$189.00 for dang mud flaps the cost $89.00??? $100.00 installation labor??? to install 4 bolts??? If you guy really love your element you have to play with it alittle, get to know it, its not like a BMW or a Porse. Think about it, the honda techs is not that skilled as you think they are, there just ordinarry people just fallowing instruction manuals downloaded from the net.=) I saved over $350.00 just doing this my self. You can buy EOM fogs from EBAY for $199.00 to $235.00

I made a deal with my salesman that the cost of the accessories included installation.

I took delivery of my E two weeks ago, the fog lights were on backorder, I had them installed at the dealership yesterday. I am kind of disappointed, they scuffed the bumper in the cut out area and my CD's were removed from my storage area. I picked the car up after hours so I will be contacting them monday morning.

My question is does anyone have a closeup of there factory installed fog lights that they could send me? My lights do not seem to fit snugly, you can see the wires behind them, is this normal?

I appreciate any help you can provide


thanks

There is no such thing as factory fogs on an Element. They are only available as a dealer installed option.

hi you mean the dealer installed ones right? I have them, and i just took photos i am going to load them up and post them shortly, see if this helps..

ok here we go: (left then right) at slightly different angles so you can see the fit..
http://tina.pirate-king.com/Cars/element%20fogs%20002B.jpg
http://tina.pirate-king.com/Cars/element%20fogs%20005B.jpg

they are the lights that the Honda dealership sells and Installs, can you help me? Are there differnt ones at each dealership?

[quote:5cad5a9bdb="iocjk"]they are the lights that the Honda dealership sells and Installs, can you help me? Are there differnt ones at each dealership?[/quote:5cad5a9bdb]

check my photos i just added, let me know if you have further questions, ok?

Thank you that was very helpful, I appreciate you taking the time to take the photos and post them

thanks again

anytime, if you need more let me know.. my E is always happy to pose!
do you have any further questions???

Sorry to hear about your bad expierence iocjk. I had a similar problem with my dealership. They gouged < inside and out >, scuffed, and cut the fog light holes like swiss cheese. I complained to the customer service manager and she replaced everything! I think you should do the same, my thoughts :D

[quote="intrepidsilence"] they scratched the bumper up really badly and made a seriously pathetic attempt at getting the cuts smooth and even. :evil: quote]

Hey...now I know where the "Mr Badwrench" guys that get fired find new jobs :mrgreen:
You do have a valid concern....but its really not too difficult......and if you do it yourself you can actually wire them "better".....without a relay for instance so you can turn them on without the headlights (like driving lights)...just tap into the parking light circuit power with the switch in between. They also wont switch off with your high beams. As for "blinding" other drivers NO ONE will notice now that they're used to those HID lights!
As for warranty.....I'll bet the kit the dealer uses has those little blue plastic clips like most kits nowadays (may be wrong of course)........experience is they will corrode very quickly......much better to splice and seal using quality weatherproof connectors (GM weatherpack come to mind) that will last longer than the vehicle! Anyone with a MODICUM :lol: of ability .......

In any event Good Luck!

Hey CorvetteArchives,

How do you tap the oem foglights into the parking light wire? I currently have it working with the lights on but am interested in having them on with parking lights.

Hi all !!!

I think that anyone carefull enough that follow the instructions carefully can't go wrong with the oem fog lights installation.
I've done it myself and it's pretty easy.
I've used a olfa knife with a brand new blade and the cutting of the holes was pretty easy.
About the wiring, everything is well explain in the instructions and all the wiring is plug into the original wiring of the E.
No need to splice, solder or crimp anything !!!

A good way to save some money !!!!

[quote:75b06cc1f7="n_webster"]I am looking in to installing a Honda factory foglight kit on a Honda Element. Is it worth the trouble for a layman? Any thoughts? Suggestions? Insights?
Thanks![/quote:75b06cc1f7]

I installed the fog lights myself very easy but may take others some time.I did the job in about one hour and fifteen mintues.(I work as a bus mechanic) Be carefull the bumper it will be damaged very easily if you do not take your time! just be very careful when cutting out the light holes! I used a razor knife. I heated the blade with a small prophane torch cuts like butter! take your time! to even out the hole put masking tape on the out side ( the part that faces out) of the hole and use some sand paper to make it nice and even.Everything comes in the box. but you have to get the switch by itself I did not disconnect the battery to do this but I will tell you that you need too!. Just make sure that if you do put down a blanket before you put the bumper down!. Have fun it is part of having a car!

Their is a BLK switch in which the dealer should of gave you as an option. It shouldn't take no more than 5 mins to reinstall the BLK switch :D

What did you use to cut out the openings? Looks like you got a nice even cut. :?:

Finally got the fog light install photos up on the element-j site:

http://www.ecnet.net/users/gallery/element-j/

A fair amount of work but also a fair amount of money saved.

e-j

Element-J

Once again you're fantastic. I love your site. Add more to it as you can!

Does that foglight switch illuminate? I know that when turned on an indicator light will shine, but how about the foglight signal? Does it illuminate when the lights are turned on, like the 'cruise' on the switch next to it?

Yes, it is illuminated when the fogs are on. I think that the switch was not lit when I put the high beams on, so it must only light when the foglights are actually on.

Hey E-people! Has anyone installed the fog light kit themselves on thier E? I downloaded the instructions from the internet and it looks extremely complicated! Ive done the keyless entry which was a breeze, and even the factory Honda Security system, which was a bit more complicated but turned out great! But Im not confident enough to pull the entire front mask off without busting all the retaining clips! Does anybody know where I can get the tool for the retaining clips to pop them without snapping them off? I thimk I can manage the rest of the install but if anybody has any tips or tricks, PLEASE let me know?? :?

Clips are very easy to remove!
Just use a appropriate sized flat head screwdriver
One trick is to make sure the clib base is firmy seated when you remove the center tensioner
The wiring of the OEM kit is strange but install instructions are here: http://www.govst.edu/users/gallery/element-j/

See my cyberwhites install and my www page for using the oem harness with aftermarket fogs. If you have owm fogs then the install should be a breeze
a small flat head screw driver works great for removing the clips . lift the center piece gently and the rest slides out like butter.http://home.comcast.net/~mrmontym
there are additional links with photos there as well as pdf files. :idea:

Since there are no switch pictures, I'm not sure which one to order - black or grey? My Element is 4WD EX 5-speed Orange.

TIA

What color is your interior?

Installed my OEM Fogs today, Not bad took about 3 hours for both inside and out.

If anyone in tha Los Angeles / Orange County area wants to do it an needs help send me an email and I will be more thatn happy to assist and guide you through it.

HB

What did YOU use to cut the bumper holes?

I used a utility knife, Cut very easy.

HB

OK, I just went to Sears and got a small multi-purpose cutting kit, including various keyhole saws and cutting blades. I'm ready to roll, both for the bumper cutting and the xpel protectant cutting :) Thanks!

how smoothly did the install go? I have been looking at the directions from Handacceories.com and they seem confusing?

:oops: :twisted: :twisted:

Send me an email at home with your address and I will make you copies of the install guide. Take your time and read them carefully and it was not that bad.

HB

Sorry for asking but I couldn't get the search function to work this morning.

I am picking up my 03 SOP EX AWD this evening but I want to order Fog lights for it and I am not sure what color swirch I should get. Can anyone help me here?
I want to be able to install them when I am at my mother's with her heated garage over MLKJ day. So I should kinda order them this morning. Thanks for your halp.
I am looking forward to ejoying my Brick.
Me

To match your interior.

I will order them today.
Brick

you can download direction formany accessory install's from handaaccessories.com :wink:

When you remove all the pop-clips (18 in all), you will probably find that the four "expander arms" in each clip are wide open, which allows the center piece to fall out and will make it difficult to put the clip back in the hole.

TIP: Put a bowl of hot water in the microwave and put it on 4 minutes high. While you wait for the water to come to a boil, pull the clips apart. Then throw all the bottoms in the boiling water. The expander arms will go back to their molded (like new) shape.

I have the bumper off the car, cleaned, and on my floor ready to be cut. :)

Mine seemed not to have any problems, Will keep that trick in the memory banks.

HB

Removing the bumper: easy.

Cutting the bumper: not too hard, didn't have the right drill bit so I used the largest I had and cut along the lines.

Cutting and applying xpel over the glass (optional): easy.

Putting the fog lamps in the bumper: extremely easy.

Routing the fog light harness (behind bumper): very easy, study the instructions as to where the wire go, it's pretty clear.

Routing the wires to the fuse box: Tricky, requires patience, instructions really need studying to tell which way the wires go. The amount of connetors you need to connect and disconnect is mind-boggling, for a simple fog lamp you think you would need 2 or 3 instead of almost a dozen! My hands seem so big working around the fuse panel. My back hurt, so I left finishing this part up until tomorrow :)

damn...that better be a nice set of foglights for $130

I have my foglights and have printed out the instructions. Plan on putting them in this weekend.

On the instructions for required tools is a "Clip Remover".

For anyone who has installed fogs, did you use a clip remover? (is it neccesary?)
If I need to get one, what do I look for, are they a generic type of tool I can find at an auto supply store, or will I have to go to my dealer?

Thanks for any help!

Ok I'm home now and checked out the clips.
The special clip remover tool is a screwdriver :roll: .

Ok I'm home now and checked out the clips.
The special clip remover tool is a screwdriver :roll: .

i used 2 stubby flatheads to remove them... applying equal force on each side. ;)

Would like to know aftermarket options for fog lights. Looking at Honda part but cost seems excessive.

I was at the dealer and they gave me a killer deal on my Element. I luckily know someone in marketing at Honda and he paved the way for me. The guy at the dealer suggest I buy the fogs and look for someone to install them away from the lot possibly to save on the cost. Does anyone know a good place to have them intalled in Northern California?

Thanks

since it involves cutting up your $300 bumper, i would either do it yourself, have someone at a honda dealer do it or print out the installation instructions at the handa site and take them and the parts with you to someplace where you trust they won't butcher it.

I think the dealer I purchased the car from told me that the fog light installation was $460.00 Should I go for that or purchase them and install myself. Is it worth the install or pay the extra $220 to have it done?

Several people here have installed the fogs themselves. If you're handy with tools it can be done, but do know that it is a lengthy procedure that involves completely removing the front plastic. It's probably the most complex accessory installation procedure we have other than putting in the DX A/C.

Download the instructions from H&A here (http://www.handaaccessories.com/element/elementfogs.pdf).

Any queasiness about this operation on your part should send you to your dealer for the full install package.

i got the dealer to install mine when i purchased it for $400 even. you might tell them you are a member of the honda element owners club and other dealers in LA and Orange County are doing it for this price. talk to the service manager (since he has the power to cut you the deal). your chances are better if you are buying the E at the same time. you could also tell them you won't buy unless they do it for the $400. that would probably get you the price too!

OK, I installed the fogs no problem. Easy, especially for a rookie! Ran the wiring exactly as the instructions dictated, even checked at Element-J's awesome install site for tips (http://www.govst.edu/users/gallery/element-j). Swear the under dash wiring is correct - but obviously something is crossed? The lights only work when the headlights are activated? The instructions say they should work when the Parking Lights are activated. Where did I go wrong?

they only work when the headlights are on. that's the stock way at least!

Thanks. I was freaking out because the OEM instructions indicate they should come on when the parking lights are on (double light indicator on turn signal/light switch)

Page 10 of OEM instructions:
http://www.handa-accessories.com/element/elementfogs.pdf

HOW TO OPERATE FOG LIGHTS
• Turn the light switch to the (Double Light Icon) position.
(Headlights on Low Beam)
• Press the Fog Light Switch (Indicator is On)

Good afternoon!

I just thought I would pass along that my husband, installed my Honda Fog lights with absolutely NO PROBLEMS in under two hours! everything went perfectly, and I had an appoint for this thurs at the dealership and they wanted to charge me at LEAST $215 for this job and they also told me it is honda's "standard rate of labor" for 2.5 hours to do this job, but i always takes at least 3.5.......hmmmmmmmmmm.......dunno........he installed my side steps in less than thirty mins friday night, which i know, are very easy in comparison........but still........do ya think the dealership was filling me full of crap????????? :shock: oh well.....either way, it's done, much cheaper, and all is well!!! Now, my little E is complete.......unless i am missing something other fun add on........ :lol:

going for a drive in her right now......me, and two of my three English setters! 8)

this is not a Honda thing this is an Automotive thing.. this goes with if you needed an alignment, rotation, brakes, belts replaced..

they have preset times that they base their rates on, sometimes flat rate sometimes hourly.. both have pros and cons. If it they have it listed as flat rate of 2 1/2 hours, and it takes the guy longer to do it he is still paid only 2 1/2 hours.. so he may rush to finish it doing a 1/2 a**ed job. Another case of course is the hourly where they may take forever to screw in a lightbulb just to get more money.

but yes you will just about always pay a dealer a heck of a lot more then you "need" to, to have things on your vehicle installed. So it all depends on can you do it confidently or can you not.. so it is a toss up.. some people pay to have the dealer do it cause they don't want the hassle, some are lazy and know they will never get to it, some know they can not do it and will cause more harm then good.. now there are those who know they can do it.. and will do it and will do it well..

but overall you are not crazy and yes those are both very easy to do.. and yeah to you for getting it done & done well.. but don't think this is isolated to honda.. this does go for any kind of work from any kind of dealer.

but overall you are not crazy and yes those are both very easy to do.. and yeah to you for getting it done & done well.. but don't think this is isolated to honda.. this does go for any kind of work from any kind of dealer.[/quote]

hi-

I know it's not just a honda thing... :D .I guess I was more annoyed after seeing how "easy" it was in comparison to what the guy made it out to be....he went on and on and on how hard it was, why it takes so long, why they charge so much, why i had to wait for THREE WEEKS for an appoint and why i had to take a 7:30am appoint so the tech was "fresh"......so, when my husband said he would do it, i was a bit nervous......he's great at do it yourself projects, plus he's an electrician too.......but the guy at the dealership was just a jerk, IMO........and when the conversation first started, he quoted me the $215, then five min later, he told me $320...i said, huh? wait a minute......he said "oh, did i already tell you $215?" i said yes........ugh.......then he went on to try change it, i said ummm, no....he said ok, $215 is what i quoted you, then that is where we will leave it.......please.....like i said, it took him UNDER two hours....so these people want $107.50 an hour? (minimum!) oh well........glad I didn't do it with them.......i swear alot of car related people are low on my "list".....(not all, just most).......doesn't matter.......love my E......just washed her, and of course it looks like rain! ugh! :cry:

:o)

When I got out of school in 1991 I went to work in a local garage. Everytime someone needed inner tie-rod ends on their Ford Tarus we'd charge what the book said the job would take. In this case I believe it was five hours. The job takes a little over an hour to do because the tool companies sell a "special tool" that lets you get to the part without taking the entire car apart. That's a major profit for the garage. I'm out of that busuness for nine years now and needless to say I do all my own work unless it's under warrenty or I don't have the skills or the equiptment to do the job right. everyone has to make money but the auto industry for the most part is a shady industry IMHO.

To add a little input here, this thread might be an indicaton of how if you are going to have certain accessories installed and you don't feel confident that you want to do it yourself, or you have some other reason to trust to a professional you should probably consider those things as add ons when you buy the car. You will, I assume, be charged much more after the fact as they will probably charge you the book rate for the labor.

When I bought my Element the Wednesday before Memorial Day, the salesman pulled out a book to price my accessories. I don't know if those are the same rates that they use if you go to your service advisor and have something installed later but the price in that book included the accessory and the installation. When I negotiated my purchase I included a few accessories that I figured would be good to have covered under the warrantee in case something happened later. I got Fog Lights which I thought was better installed by the dealer since it involves electrical and I didn't want to chance damaging some circuit or wiring and have a problem that they wouldn't cover because the work wasn't done correctly. The Side Steps since they can be structural and if I or someone else were to step up on it and it were to fall off, I figure better left to the liability of the dealer. Maybe that is the years that I spent working in a law office that influenced me there. The Drivers Armrest, I thought best left to the dealer since I didn't want to risk cutting the seat wrong on a brand new car and the Rear Air Deflector since it required some drilling(?) and if something rusted later I didn't want it to be my fault. I think by adding those into my package when I bought the car I might have gotten a little better deal when combined with the purchase of the car. The dealer started at 23,300 w/ttl and doc, destination and all installation OTD. His itemized bid was for 100 under invoice on the car and the book prices on the accessories. After a little negotiation and my telling the salesman of another offer of about 22,900 he came down to 22,800 for everything. Whether he took more off the price of the car or off the quote for the accessories I don't know but he was able to cut 500 off of his first bid which, based on the other quotes I got was among the average bids.

So far I have the rear bumper trim, Cargo Cover Cargo Net and the Exhaust Finisher which I got on the net and have or will put in or on myself. Those, so far, have been brainless. The rear bumper trim might be a little more difficult as you have to have temps over 60, you have to clean the bumper and prep with a primer, peel off the two sided foam tape and position it correctly to get it to adhere right. It isn't as simple as peel and stick like it appears. However shouldn't be too tough. I also intend to put on the Lund Interceptor, Home Depot Grill Solution, Splash Guards and am still debating on the Rocker Panel trim. Those are all things I can buy cheaper on the net and install myself without too much risk. I am also thinking of getting a pair of dash panels and having them painted SOP to match the car. While I will certainly have such a modification preped and painted by a professional I think I could install the painted parts myself.

WmAS1960 (Bill)

$215 does seem a bit high. My dealer did the install for $120. I purchased the lights from Handa.com. The other local dealer quoted $200. The rear bumper trim is pretty much as simple as peel and stick. I did the primer, peeled it and stuck it on. It can pretty much only go on in once place. No need to follow their peeling the adhesive cover strip instructions. Peel it all at once and apply one side to the other.

I put my fog lights on today. it took me about 2 hours.
Piece of cake!
no problem
The dealer told my that im better off doing it my self
so I did

Hi Guys...

I am interested in adding the fog light kit to my Element. I have been shopping around and can get the complete kit pretty reasonably.

I am fairly mechanically savvy, and would like to tackle the project myself.
But, I would like some helpful hints or even a pictoral walk through to educate myself on the project.

The voice of experience is invaluable in avoiding stupid mistakes. I hate saying, "Oh, man that's so simple if I only knew..."

Please let me know if anyone has been down this road. I am usually not apposed to aftermarket products as some here on this forum may already know, but on this one I think I would like to use the factory kit.

Thanks for the guidance.
Steve

Check out Element.J's site at http://webserve.govst.edu/users/gallery/element-j/
He has about the most accurate installation pictorial and instructions I've seen yet.

The factory foglights are not too terribly expensive and extremely easy to install. I intalled my fogligts in just over an hour and that includes all the cutting of the plastic and removal of the bumpers. Honda has prewired all the hard connections so only a few wires and screws is all that is needed to get the foglights in place. Besides Honda uses Raybrig lenses with their foglights.

Thanks for the info guys ... I am really grateful for the tips. I am looking forward to the chance to put them in. I did enjoy element.j's site and I am going to do the trick with the garage door opener. That sounds really cool.

:P

I installed the outer portion of my OEM foglights today. Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to the wire ties and used a couple of the "wire ties with clips" before I realized that there were two different types of wire ties. In looking over the instructions for the interior install, I saw that I will need three "wire ties with clips" and I am two short. Does anybody know if these clips are available at auto parts stores, or will I have to purchase two from Honda for about $5.00 each?

I ended up with a bunch of extras. I just secured it in several spots until I was happy with it's sturdiness. You probably can't get those exact zip ties from the parts store. But you can probably get some decent heavy duty ones.

How involved is it to install a fog light kit on your own?
I read a PDF instruction manual online and it seems a bit involved.
I have a 2004 EX.
Also, my car got keyed yesterday, does anyone have any comments about touch- up VS. bodyshop?
Thanks

Do a search. When I get home I can give you a link to TypeX's page where he has a picture tutorial to show it all.

Lots of info on these done before. Just follow the instructions. The hardest part for me was cutting the holes in the bumper out. The plugs that need to be pulled out or plugged in are pretty much different, so it's not hard to figure out where stuff gets plugged in.

The site I was referring too:

http://www.nyelement.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=FOGLIGHTS

http://www.nyelement.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=FOGLIGHTS

Couple the information from this link with the installation file at http://handa-accessories.com/element/elementfogs.pdf and you're golden- the pdf can be a little confusing, but the pictures from the link above clear things up a lot. It *is* a time consuming job if you want to do it right- probably best to set aside the better part of the afternoon on a weekend. There's nothing all that complicated, so as long as you take your time and follow the instructions, you'll be fine. One thing that isn't explained well is how to take off the subwoofer surround. There are two little pushpin connectors (one on each side). I got mad at them, and now there are two less pushpin connectors in the world. I believe the solution is to actually push the center part *in* rather than trying to pull it out (like every other connector like that in the world- go figure).

Also, don't forget to order the switch, as it doesn't come with the fog light kit. There are two choices, black (which match the SOP for sure) and gray.

Have fun- it's kind of a cool little diversion. R.

Yes, it is involved. The most time-consuming part is doing a good job cutting the holes in the fascia. Don't rush, and be sure to use a fine-tooth saw - you will be happier with the finished work.

For SOP, yes, get the black switch.

Re. your paint scratch: body shop. SOP is a multi-layer finish (the orange is transparent) and touch-up paint will never, ever look right. In fact, it will draw your eye to the attempted "fix". Do what you can to (lightly) polish and wax the blemish, and hopefully you can soften the appearance enough to avoid paying the body shop.

That said, I am hearing - in total - too many EOC members recounting instances of being keyed. What's the problem here? (I just increased my comprehensive deductible to $500... was this a bad idea? :confused: )

Thanks to everyone for all the input. That photo walkthrough convinced me...
As far as the keying issue, for me it just happened yesterday. I was away no longer than 10 min. I'm still in a rage, I've had the car just over three months.
My deduct. is $500, the estimate is $700, so I am opting to pay out of pocket rather than file a claim.
Keep an eye out, fellow E owners, there are alot of *****'s out there.

Also, don't forget to order the switch, as it doesn't come with the fog light kit.
Actually some places they will include it in the kit :)

OK so I spend 5 hours (by myself) putting in my fogs (Honda OEM). Get the lights in, move inside get all the wiring done. All done...test it out.

Turn on car. Turn on lights. Turn on Fog switch...green light on switch lights up! Yeaaahhh...but wait. Step outside, no lights. Make sure I dont have high beams on...yup, low beams. As I move from low to high beams green light goes off as it is supposed to.

So now I am left wondering why the fogs wont light up. Ugggggghhhhhhhhhh...to spend all night then nothing. This sucks.

I double checked the connections and everything before putting the bumper back on. With all the lights on the inside working, it seems to be the lights on the outside. Only thing I wonder is that at the very beginning when I was hooking up the Bronw 1 pin connector under the left light there was this white gooo inside the connector...was that supposed to be there?

Stupid question...are there actually bulbs inside the lights? That I did not check.

Hey LW,

Yes, the goo is dielectric grease it keeps the connection clean.

Yes, there should be bulbs inside the fixtures.

You say you cked all connections did you use a test light and/or meter? Sometimes a connection that appears good is in fact faulty and can only be found by a meter.

If all connections are tested ok and you have power then it could be a bad relay and/or fuse(s).

Thx, Phil
ps FRUSTRATING? WELCOME TO DA CLUB MAN. LOL

...FRUSTRATING? WELCOME TO DA CLUB MAN. LOL

Electrical problems drive me nuts. Good on you for trying it yourself. After several bad experiences with VWs years ago I usually chicken out of most DIY electrical projects.

Hope you find the solution quickly.

You probably did this but:

Did you remember to attach the ground clip to the bolt near the left headlight?

If the brown wire clicked into place, then this would be the other conductor that matters. When I installed my brown wire, I had to really push on it to hear a click - because it has to push out a bunch of the goop.

Speaking from personal experience, did you have someone else double check your work? Not saying you did something wrong but 9/10 times when something didn't work all I needed was an outsider that hasn't been staring at the problem as long as I have and they usually pick up something I've missed almost right away or ask the one question that will spark the solution.

In any case, best of luck, you'll get it!

I double checked the connections and everything before putting the bumper back on.
Re-check all of your ground connections. I would put my money on a bad ground somewhere.

Good Luck!

Re-check all of your ground connections. I would put my money on a bad ground somewhere.

Good Luck!

i would be willing to bet the same. check your ground. and then disconnect and reconnect all the harnesses to make sure they are all tight and secure. :)

-tom :)

They probably look just as good off as they do on..! :lol:

The one ground is in nice and tight under the left left. However, as one person mentioned I need to recheck the brown connector with the goo. It was very hard to push that in, and I do NOT remember a click. I just remember pushing on it real hard until it would not move anymore. Maybe I need to try again.

Oh, boy....cant wait to take the front end off again! :roll: It wasnt so bad until putting it back on where I could not remember what pieces under the front went over or under.

As far as that the only thing else I can remember is the brown relay inside under the dash did not fit snug at all. It just sort of dropped in. Maybe I put it in the wrong place, even though I checked that over and over.

Sounds more like the front end, but it seems its time to go take her all apart again!

Check the brown relay under the dash. Same thing happened to me when we installed my fog lights (green light on, but no lights). I tought I had a defective relay because it really was not on tight despite repeated attempts at installing it. After my lights did not go on, we unplugged it and replugged it and low and behold it did fit the other way (nice tight fit). I am willing to bet that is your problem.

Check the brown relay under the dash. Same thing happened to me when we installed my fog lights (green light on, but no lights). I tought I had a defective relay because it really was not on tight despite repeated attempts at installing it. After my lights did not go on, we unplugged it and replugged it and low and behold it did fit the other way (nice tight fit). I am willing to bet that is your problem.

Thanks. it was weird because the harnes to put it in has 2 slots and I double checked like 5 times to make sure I put it in the right one, but it was just real loose. I will flip off the fuse door and try it again and if not try the other slot for a better fit. I will do this before removing and trying the front end (obviously).

God I hoep this works cause I am REALLY frustrated.

This is the relay I am referring to:






P.S. I took picture from Element J's website

Check your connections at the fuse panel also, I had a real pain trying to get those connectors to sit properly.
Those others who did a DIY with the fogs, do you notice there is a small gap between the top of the fog lamp and the bumper cutout?
Is anyone else concerned about water getting in there and causing problems "down the road"??
I was thinking of sealing it with some sort of epoxy or the like.

Check your connections at the fuse panel also, I had a real pain trying to get those connectors to sit properly.
Those others who did a DIY with the fogs, do you notice there is a small gap between the top of the fog lamp and the bumper cutout?
Is anyone else concerned about water getting in there and causing problems "down the road"??
I was thinking of sealing it with some sort of epoxy or the like.
Epoxy??!?!? :shock: Are you nuts? This is why pros hate D-I-Y'ers - "improvements" that don't improve anything and create a whole bunch of work later undoing the damage when it has to be fixed (and it will have to be fixed). There ought to be a certification required to buy adhesives, fillers and caulks. :roll:

The "gap" is the way it is supposed to be so there is room for heat dissipation. The lamp assembly is a standalone, sealed unit. It would be fine if you duct-taped it to your bumper.

This is the relay I am referring to:






P.S. I took picture from Element J's website
Yes, thats exactly what I was thinking of...on the same page here :) will go try it soon. Af I have anxious all day while running errands.

And here is his picture with the relay attached. First thing I noticed was mine is attached to the top, where his is the bottom...which may explain things. However, that block can (I believe) be attached in either direction. So it may mean nothing. Who knows.

Epoxy??!?!? :shock: Are you nuts? This is why pros hate D-I-Y'ers - "improvements" that don't improve anything and create a whole bunch of work later undoing the damage when it has to be fixed (and it will have to be fixed). There ought to be a certification required to buy adhesives, fillers and caulks. :roll:

The "gap" is the way it is supposed to be so there is room for heat dissipation. The lamp assembly is a standalone, sealed unit. It would be fine if you duct-taped it to your bumper.

Not only that, but if you (not you Mike) did not read the last few pages onf the instructions that gap is also very functional...1) it is used to adjust the height of the light 2) it is used to get the light off to replace a burnt out bulb.

Okay, then, my installation was a success. No fixing needed here.
They look / work great. Thanks for the info.

Game, set, match.

Moved the relay from the loose plug to the other plug...nice and snug and seemed to fit just right. Car on, lights on, crossed fingers....LIGHTS ON!

Man if I had just checked last night on here I would have had this fixed in 15 seconds.

Now I just need to go out this evening and see them in the dark and see if I need to adjust the height at all.

NICE WORK, lw!

These problems can be really frustrating, but solving them is a thing of beauty. :)

I know this must be obvious, but regarding aiming the fogs lights, I have found that adjusting them just high enough to avoid annoying the oncoming drivers provides much more horizontal i.e. roadside light than aiming them down toward the road. I replaced my bulbs with PIAA yellow fog lights. They have a sparkle quality to the light, which is very :cool: .

Good job! I put my fog lights in myself too and I would have been pissed if they did not work the first time. Especially after all the acrobatics I had to do for wiring the inside.

Especially after all the acrobatics I had to do for wiring the inside.

No kidding...this by far was the toughest part of the hole thing. I have 2 wire ties and 1 wire tie with clip left over because I either a) missed a spot or b) forgot one some where.

Oh well, they work now!

Extra parts lets you know the engineers are not as efficient as the rest of us.
Travis

I thought my hands were going to snap off trying to get to the fuse panel...
But what a payoff!

Here are a few pix of my install... I did the fogs and the billet grille in one afternoon. I took my time and had alot of fun.

Has anyone installed the factory fog lights? What difficulties have you encountered?

i put a set in my 06 and there's lots of tips you should know about. do a search on fog light installation and a wealth of info will come up for you. this is a very informative link too - except he left the part out about the center console pins needing to be pushed in (he does have it in the audio subwoofer section though so read through that).
http://www.re-vision.com/element-j/index.html

You have a black 06? What else are you going to put in?

You have a black 06? What else are you going to put in?
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18893

I got the fogs from H and A. Local dealer quoted me $350 for install alone. Looks like I'll be DIY'ing em.
my four install tips:
1) study this link - http://www.re-vision.com/element-j/index.html
2) protect the bumper when you pull it or it will scuff or scratch. use lots of towels or something soft! if you're going to do any custom grille stuff do it when you have the bumper off!
3)push the pins on the sub enclosure inside IN when removing it or you will ruin them and have to get new ones.
4)when putting the bumper back on stick a screwdriver through one of the upper middle slots where the pins go to hold it in place while you fudge in the sides. or better yet get a hot babe=n-heimer in cut offs to hold it for you. :D

I am not having the dealer install ANY accessories for me; in fact, I am not buying any accessories from them. The prices at HandA are very good and I am curious as to the difficulty of installing the Fog Lights. I have all the tools necessary except the clip remover. I am thinking that it might be a nice project for a Saturday. I am pretty mechanically inclined however I have not done a lot of custom DIY mods to vehicles aside from painting my calipers on my Mazda 6 and installing a stereo system in my old Chevy Cavalier (back in college). On a scale from 1-10, how difficult is the fog light install? Any pitfalls to be mindful of?

Thanks everyone. I will continue to search and read.... this site is chock full of information!

Mike T.

do a search on here and you will find all you need to know to do this.

also, you do not need a clip remover...all you need is a flat head screw driver

bottom line, I had never done a thing to a car before my E. It took me awhile, like 6 hours, but I finally got my fogs in and working.

Does anyone have a picture of the factory fog lights in action? I was wondering if they projected a clear light or a yellow-ish light.

Also, is there a list of aftermarket fog lights that fit the E?

Thanks!!!

LRAO that's a good question. I don't have fog lights yet. I look forward to hearing from the good people of EOC community and see what they have to say about it. I'm going to get them on my Element just because I think it looks better with them and adds value to my Element. A little bit more light at night couldn't hurt. Good luck!;-)

stock from Honda are clear, wish they were yellowish, but they're not.
jurn

I'm in the process of researching just that. Piaa has yellow fogs, but the price is 250. $$ I have been looking at a set from Hella that are yellow for about 130. $. The light output is about the same as the Piaa's. I don't know how well they will hold up. I had a set of Hella's on my Truck in 1979, that did not last well. After 3 years they were JUNK. In those days they were made of chromed steel. I doubt if they still are the same. I am waiting to see them. The auto Zone just ordered a set for me to look at. I'll keep you Posted !

They're white and not only do they look sharp, they really throw down the light.

http://www.allerian.com/images/foglights.jpg

I read somewhere that in true actual fog, the reason for fog lights, yellow is clearer and you see more than the white. I agree they're bright but that's reduced in true fog. I think the yellows on my wrangler are brighter in inclement weather..

I've considered changing as well, but on reg dark nights, the whites are great on a back country roads and if you're not offending any on coming traffic.
j

the whites are great on a back country roads and if you're not offending any on coming traffic.

Exactly. I've used fogs as actual "fogs" maybe twice, ever. And that was living way up in the mountains in SoCal. Driving at night with the door open, looking down at the yellow line going about 10mph and your lookout is watching ahead for other people's foglights. Probably my least favorite driving moments were up there.

Also, is there a list of aftermarket fog lights that fit the E?
There's no definitive list but basically anything you can squeeze in those sockets and rig a decent mounting arrangement should be fine. Some folks are content with down and dirty budget lights you could easily pick up at any Pep Boys or even Walmart and some go with the more name brand sets like PIAAs for example. Like I said, it's whatever fits. For mine I wanted something big and chunky looking, water resistant and fairly cheap to replace. Mine aren't actual "fog" lights but are sealed beam utility lights. They protrude from the sockets slightly but fully fill the opening and I kinda prefer the more industrial look they give. They have a black rubber housing and a thick sealed lens so no moisture is getting inside. Plus they only run about $13 a piece so a broken or burned out lamp is nothing to replace. They do their job well and with proper aiming I've never once been flashed by an oncoming driver. Their beam color seems to be a perfect match to the beam color of the Nighthawk bulbs I use in the headlights so they don't look so much like an aftermarket add-on.



http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1381/fogs16le.jpg

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8868/fogs22jt.jpg

My fogs are being installed tomorrow morning...I can hardly wait.:D

I have Honda fogs/white with blue lens covers, luv`em

I've had fogs on a few other vehicles I've owned and used them almost every day in heavy dense fog. They help quite a bit and yellow fog lights cut through the fog so much better than white in my experience.

I am in the middle of shopping for fogs right now.

It has been my experience that the quality of the reflectors and bulbs make more difference than the colour. Whatever you get make sure the housing will withstand impacts and vibration, there is a source of replacement bulbs and that the seals are good quality.

Yes the PIAAs are pricey but fogs are a bit of a PITA to install so saving yourself a few bucks by buying cheaper lights may be a false economy.

Cheap lights may work okay for a while but the light output deteriorates dramatically when the reflectors corrode due to salt or water leakage from poor seals or vibration/impact damage. Leaky housings also mean the bulbs will blow on a regular basis as well. If you really need your fog lights this will soon become a real source of frustration.

I have no experience with the OEM fogs but I am really happy with the PIAAs both for the quality of the housings and the quality of the light (which has a yellowish tinge). I have them installed in two vehicles at present (3 years service in one vehicle, 2 winters now in the E).

Given the price of quality fogs make SURE you protect the lenses with an impact absorbing film.

Here are my fogs...just installed this morning. I think they really add something special to my E.:D

Nice pair. :cool:

Thanks:) :)

Here's a pic of mine...I love the fogs...I simply think they "complete" the ELEMENT... (thinking Jerry Meguire now...you...complete me...shut up, just shut up...)

Uh...anyway...on to the pics. :)

http://a9.cpimg.com/image/31/96/56961329-843d-02000180-.jpg

http://a4.cpimg.com/image/F0/94/56961264-8853-02000180-.jpg

I love those night pics....:D

http://a9.cpimg.com/image/31/96/56961329-843d-02000180-.jpg

This one should be an ad for the dearler. Very cool!

I have factory fog lights and love 'em. I live on a lake in the (beginning of) the foothills to Mt. Rainier. We get quite a bit of fog 3/4s of the year (autum through spring), and they really help out on our curvy, pot-hole-y dirt road.

Here are my fogs...just installed this morning. I think they really add something special to my E.:D

I bought mine from H&A same time as you Kissya, but my dealer quoted me 150 (with the discount) to install. I decided to do it myself. I admit im a just a little scared :) I'm just waiting for a clear day :(

I bought mine from H&A same time as you Kissya, but my dealer quoted me 150 (with the discount) to install. I decided to do it myself. I admit im a just a little scared :) I'm just waiting for a clear day :(

You might call around different dealers. "Mine" quoted me closer to $200, but a dealer closer to my work did it for $100. It all depends on the labor-hours they estimate.

And for me, $100-versus-the chances of me f*cking something up in trying to do it myself was well worth it.

They help quite a bit and yellow fog lights cut through the fog so much better than white in my experience.

I am in the middle of shopping for fogs right now.

yes, my experience as well, it seemed to me the yellows cut through better, but I do like the extra brightness on back country roads. Not A spring chicken any more, guess I need both sets!:)

Here are my fogs...just installed this morning. I think they really add something special to my E.:D

Yes they do.....:)
I don't know if I want them yet???? I like my orange reflectors...:twisted:

Thanks:) :)

Hey Kissya,

I kind of like the windshield visor you have, I've been trying to decide on these. I know you live down south so my question regarding any difference in winter driving on the windshield is not going to fly, is it?

It looks good, do you have a close up?
thanky,
j.

The sunvisor? Did you say pics??? Woohoo About the winter...I'll find out this winter...but we have very mild winters. Here you go if you want more just let me know.

Thanky....thanky.....nice....
jurn

One of the reasons that I'm not buying the OEM fog lights is because of the switch position. On both of my previous cars, the swich was integrated in one form or another with the light switch.

Has anyone tied the fog light switch into the regular light switch? And if so, what is the wiring?

What is wrong with the position? Seems like a good place to me. Not as good as my Jetta. But, then it is a Japanese and not European. Personally, I have never understood why the light switch has to be a two position. Why do I want to turn on the parking lights on by themselves? Light on or off.

Just leave the switch to the on position. I never touch my switch since it's always on. I've had a GTI for my previous car, and it's not really that big of a deal to not be able to turn it on separatly with the same turn switch.

OK - If I understand you correctly - If I leave the fog light switch in the ON position, they will go on and off with the main headlights. During the day - no lights. At night, I turn on the headlights and the fog lights turn on also.

The OEM foglight setup is directly tied to the headlights. Foglights on, the headlights are on. There are some posts around talking about re-wiring the fogs to run idependently, but I don't know if anyone has attempted this.

Can I ask a stupid question? Do the fog lights stay on all the time like daytime running lights?

Can I ask a stupid question? Do the fog lights stay on all the time like daytime running lights?

Probably best answered by someone who has fogs on their E (not me yet:-( ), but no, they don't stay on. You install a switch next to your cruise switch and turn them on along with your low beam headlights.

You install a switch next to your cruise switch and turn them on along with your low beam headlights.
In the 'stock' install, do the fogs only work with the lows?

OK - If I understand you correctly - If I leave the fog light switch in the ON position, they will go on and off with the main headlights. During the day - no lights. At night, I turn on the headlights and the fog lights turn on also.

Yes, this is how they work.

I hate reviving a dead thread (inactive, rather since its been over a year), but I had a question on the removal of the front end and cutting the holes. I know Honda recommends a hacksaw approach, as did element-j, but what method did you use, and was it horrible? I'm not a novice with tools, but historically my mods have been kept to things that were 1) easily replaceable, and 2) well below the price of a new front end. Thanks for the tips, and I love the site and my new E.

Thank you for reviving an old thread, and not starting a new one :D

In terms of cutting the holes I did 2 things:
1) to cut out the standard holes I used a sharp utility knife. Where the holes go there is a ridged edge that acts as a channel all the way around the hole....the utility knife stayed right in the channel all the way around. The sharper the blade on the knife the more it cut like butter...the plastic is not as thick in the channel as the rest of the front end.

2) to cut out the secondary portion that is used for seating the light, as well as access to adjust the beam (this is the U shaped cut out where the directions tell you to drill starter holes) I did indeed use a hacksaw....the smaller blade helped cut away at it nicely. However, I also used a Dremmel to clean it up a bit. Upon further inspection when complete I probably could have used the Dremmel for the hole thing.

I hate reviving a dead thread (inactive, rather since its been over a year), but I had a question on the removal of the front end and cutting the holes. I know Honda recommends a hacksaw approach, as did element-j, but what method did you use, and was it horrible? I'm not a novice with tools, but historically my mods have been kept to things that were 1) easily replaceable, and 2) well below the price of a new front end. Thanks for the tips, and I love the site and my new E.

I installed mine in my wifes E yesterday. I used a dremel witha cutting bit, followed the grove nicely, I did not even have to steer it, it really stayed in the groove. Total time 3 min

I took advantage of HandA's May discount and bought the fog light kit and installed them myself.

VERDICT: Not for the faint of heart

The first part is disassembling and removing the front bumper. That part was fairly easy. Although I'm a little amazed at how much of it is plastic. I thing I'll intentionally avoid running into anything (like a tree) with the front end.

Next is cutting out the opening for the fog lights. The instructions recommend using a hacksaw blade and a file. I was glad that I own a Dremmel tool. Made it a whole lot easier (and smoother).

After which you have to run the wiring. Fairly simple. But time consuming trying to just match the diagrams with the actual car.

Then the bumper gets re-installed. I dropped it once trying to get all the plastic to bend right and match up with the holes. Oh well! a minor scratch on the front black part of the bumber.

Time for a coffee break.

Next is removing the center console. I ended up breaking the two plastic expansion connectors that secure the front lower corners to the console. Later I went to the dealer and had to special order them. But only $4.

Then the fuse box cover is removed and the fun begins. Again, this takes time to match the illustrations to the actual car. The hardest part for me was figuring out the twelve pin connector on the fuse box and getting it out. Finally the switch and relay get assembled into place by the left knee. An observation: One must be a true contortionist to get into the area to route the wiring.

Everything gets wire tied. Battery gets reconnected. Radio code gets entered. and VOILA! I now have working fog lights.

All in all, 5 hours (excluding trip to the dealer). Would I do it again - Probably not. Am I glad I did it and saved $250 in labor costs at the dealers? Without a doubt.

Bottom line: Worth it!

Day-um! I am definitely of the faint of heart category on this one. I guess I'll have to find a local electronics install place to do mine.
Honda doesn't really charge $250 to instal them, do they?!? :???:

Tess

Day-um! I am definitely of the faint of heart category on this one. I guess I'll have to find a local electronics install place to do mine.
Honda doesn't really charge $250 to instal them, do they?!? :???:

Tess

OR you could drive up to Torrance on the 27th, stop in Irvine on the way, and I'll help you put them in.

Do you have any pics? Show them off! I lost one expansion connector and have to stop by the dealer to pick a few up. Do you have a part number?

I KNEW there was a really good reason I paid to have the dealer install mine! I would not have made it past step one. Mr Tango is NOT a fix-it guy and I would have been doing it all by myself .... NO WAY! You get the gold star for achievement for the day. I must say I do like mine and I knew I would not like big blank empty holes in the bumper - would have driven me crazy. To me, the fogs make the front look "finished".
Good job!

Day-um! I am definitely of the faint of heart category on this one. I guess I'll have to find a local electronics install place to do mine.
Honda doesn't really charge $250 to instal them, do they?!? :???:

TessAfter I did mine (you will find a related thread on my experience on here somewhere) $250 seemed like a bargain by the time I was done ;-)

I'm trying to build up the courage to do it myself. When I put in my grilleguy.com lower grill, I had to take of the entire bumper, and WISHED I had ordered the fog lights so I wouldn't have to take off the bumper again. Oh well. The empty spaces in the bumper drive me crazy, plus my dad seems hellbent on me not taking the car in to the dealer to install any accessory, so I expect to spend one of these days doing it.

Thanks for the inspiration BasicElement!

Removing the bumper was easy.
Routing the wiring in the front end was almost easy.
The interior wiring was the hard part. But again Worth It! (vs paying someone else). Take your time. Read and reread the instructions.

So as long as one takes their time and reads the instructions thoroughly, the installation is easy right?

I'm really wanting fog lights but I'm scared to install them myself. It's just plugging in wires and connectors basically, am I right? :|

I've done the fog lights install too! It does take a little time to do it but its worth it. Just read the instructions over a couple of times. The hardest part is the hook-up under the driver side. Really tight in there. Mine worked first time. One tip, test the fog lights before you put the bumper back on.

Well....new "E" owner here....searching for information and pic's of the installation process for fog lights.

Does anyone have a pic-by-pic display of the install and the PIAA part number for the lights that work the best?

Dave

Ho Check out da skills of Nalu Boy!!

Got ta make sure you get all da little guys out of there...

go Nalu Go!! Got em off....

Ho here we go...time to cut...

Some other tools....drop da lights in...baby...!!

Here we go with da wiyas....

Tying into the main ground on body and making da wires pretty...factory harness is great...green tape...tells you were da ties go....

the tie into the fuse panel...will shoot them on my car...later...

Yo Nalu & Tanega:
Very cool! Thx for posting the install sequence shots! So those are the Honda OE fogs w/wiring harness, etc. and not WM $20 specials (and fabricate your own brackets, wiring, etc deal)? Looks like a very clean setup. Where were those ramps from? How much? Looks like they'd really come in handy. :rolleyes:

Yeah they are great i bought some after the install the next day...$38 bucks come in grey and black...very handy indeed...

What kind of gloves is that and where did you buy them from?

i went to the parts department at Pflueger Honda in Honolulu and learned how these little guys work..to remove you push the middle in then remove...to resuse put your finger in between push back out like the attached photos...pretty cool...

What kind of gloves is that and where did you buy them from?

These are nitrile gloves and you can get them at automotive shops. It's easy to keep your hands clean and somewhat keeps your hands safer. :-P

Thanks Nalu.
Looks like something I could use. See you in a couple weeks.

Hey Turbo I'll be sure to bring some to show you and for you to try em, See you later...:cool:

For all those discouraged by the 13 page installation guide, don't be!
When I first took a glance at the guide, I was overwhelmed (I have no experience with electrical work), and I was ready to pay for the installation.
But I can't find the time to drop the car off to have the kit put on. So with some time tonight, I went through a few threads and saw a bunch of ppl installed it themselves. So I said f*ck it... and after 5 hours.... the fogs are on and I saved myself a few hundred bucks. This particular thread and the info from http://www.re-vision.com/element-j/ was what I used as reference as I followed the installation guide. The hardest part is really the interior wirings to the fuse box because the space is very restrictive. The exterior work is straight forward but I took a lot of time cutting out the holes since I didn't have a hacksaw blade nor a dremel but only a utility knife and a drill.
Anyhow, what I really wanted to say is, to those like me whose not sure if they can do it, ... just take your time and you will have the fogs up and running.

That's really reassuring.

Yesterday, I had all my tools ready and my car prepped then I looked at the installation guide one more time and I just got scared. I couldn't do it. I was afraid I would jack something up real bad because I had never done anything like this before. I was gonna call a couple dealers around here for a quote this week.

I think I'll give it another go next weekend.

That's really reassuring.

Yesterday, I had all my tools ready and my car prepped then I looked at the installation guide one more time and I just got scared. I couldn't do it. I was afraid I would jack something up real bad because I had never done anything like this before. I was gonna call a couple dealers around here for a quote this week.

I think I'll give it another go next weekend.

Yea... I figured there should be more like me who are contemplating to install the fogs themselves. So once I got through it, I needed to let you guys know it ain't as bad as the instructions look.
I have no experience with electrical wiring and stuff but you really don't need any. The instructions are very clear ....just take your time.
Maybe it was only me, but after I removed all the screws and clips for the bumper removal, I had a hard time pulling the bumper off. It was only after I got it off that I realized there is a tab on each side (where the screw on the upper wheel well is) that fits into place. I really weaken those tabs since I pretty much forced the bumper off. You should move those tabs out of place before pulling the bumper off.

I want fog lights - doesn't seem right to have that space for them not filled.

Question.....is this a do it yourself thing or do you have to have someone (other than my husband) do it? Cost?!

Thanks!:-)

i agree get the fog lights, i had another dealer install them since i did not have time. alot of owners did it themselves. read the posts on fog light installs.

Cool - thanks!!!

Adding fog lights to your scion xB is very easy... :twisted:

Regards,

Well it's pretty easy if you use the Honda Element specific fog light kit. Not quite as easy if you use after market. Or just look on line on how to add fog lights to your scion xbsnortsnort:-o Drew:rolleyes:

It's not hard to do - but being "mechanically challenged" would make it difficult.
Why not let the husband do it? My wife let me :-P

I did the install, and think it was pretty easy. The honda kit is pretty much "plug and play". The toughest part for me was cutting the holes in the front bumper for the lights.
Josh

Sometimes it just makes sense to spend more. Sure; you could adapt fog light to fit but the Honda kit is so easy to install, you can aim them after installation, they plug into factory harness, are better quality than most aftermarket lights, You have a integrated switch on the turn signal stalk, a light lites up on the gage telling you they are on. What more could you want? Tip: use a Roto Zip to cut out the openings. Like a hot knife through butter!

Gilboy, thanks for the pics, are they good in the fog? it get really foggy here ya could cut it with a knife''. also having a e'' meet on Dec 16 in State College at Quaker Steak &Lube come on up

Fog lights are a must for me too. great thread..

NEPA represented!

I'd really like to get the '07 fogs with the switch built in to the headlight switch. Anyone know if it will work? Then I'd like to get the fog light switch from the '03 tp '05 E and use it for the flashers. Then I'd like to use the flasher location for something else. Maybe some sort of controller for a carputer like a griffin knob or a touchpad. I'm nutty like that. Anyway, i was thinking of just buying just the '07 lightswitch and the wiring harness from majestic for the fogs and then get a pair of these...

... Hella 90mm projector fog modules. Available in Xenon or Halogen. I've seen the halogens for under $50 ea. online. These are the kind used in GT auto racing.

I have the Honda fog light kit and harness. What's stopping from from doing the installation myself (aside from a general sense of intimidation) is I don't have a tool for making the cut-out on the fog light indents in the lower bumper.


Question: What works best? Roto Zip, Dremel, other?

A mere pocket knife works just fine, Rocket Dog. Cutting the physical holes is the easiest part!

For some inquiring, fog lights are no more capable of "cutting through the fog" than a pocket knife is, but some lights are better designed at aiming low and flat to skirt beneath the assumed fog...

Thanks everyone!

Maybe it's just the girl in me - but seeing the pictures of the E's without their "skin" made me a little sad. I may opt to send her in to get done so I don't have to witness the ?pain?.

Question: I have the 06, I have a cruise button by the door midway down - is the blank one next to it where the fog light button will go?! My hubby said he thought so - but I wanted to make sure!

That's exactly where the factory fog light switch goes, Heather, but it also lends itself to virtually any aftermarket fog light switch as well.

For what it's worth, I feel your pain, looking at the empty places where the expensive Honda fog lights "belong". I'm not passing judgement on the quality or usefullness of the factory fog lights, but many of us have opted for "other" fog light solutions that are less expensive. Some people even find satisfaction sticking mirrors or reflectors in the fog light dimples in the front facia.

Your personal "satisfaction" has many possible solutions -- depending on your budget, and your husband's cooperation (or awareness of your increasing "disease symptoms")? :wink:

Gilboy;
Nice job on the Fog's. What set of 'instructions' did you use for the install? The 'HandA' site has one set for '05-06' (switch in instrument panel) and one set for '07 SC'; none for '07 LX/EX. I gather your switch mounts on the 'light shaft' like the SC? Did you use the '05-06' instructions for mounting the lights (different than the SC lights); and the 'SC' instructions for mounting the wiring and switch? My 'fogs' are on order from HandA; and my new 2007 EX 4WD AT, should be here in a week to 10 days. Hope it is as 'easy' as it sounds. Have any 'glitzes', I should look out for? It will be one (of many) of the first 'mods' that I'll be doing myself. I'm also reading all the 'How To's' that I can.
......"Making my MOD list, and checking it TWICE!.....Let the FUN/WORK begin!
Roger W.

Just finished installing OEM fogs on my daughter's E. This is the second time around as I put them on mine first to see if they really helped the lack of good lighting as the E came from the factory. In town it's not a big problem but out in the desert or up in the mountains, the factory lighting leaves something to be desired. The OEM fogs make a big difference as in a good thing! The kid's going back to school in January up in Prescott Arizona and I wanted the saftey issue of bad lighting resolved before she went back up.

The installation is straight forward and easy to accomplish. Grill / bumper housing is already scribed showing where to drill and cut. I used a step drill to bore the initial holes and a Dremmel with a sharp drill bit to cut along the scribe marks. Works perfect! I know the price is steep but the wiring harnesses that come with the package are abslolutely beautiful and the final result is as clean as the setup on my wife's Mercedes CLK! This time it took just less than an hour to complete and I was socializing with friends while working on this project. Got lucky again, didn't have to adjust the lights at the finish of the installation this time either!

I'm getting fog lights put on Friday via the dealer and wanted to know where the switch is going to be for the fog lights?

Can anyone help me out?

I'm getting fog lights put on Friday via the dealer and wanted to know where the switch is going to be for the fog lights?

Can anyone help me out?


The headlight switch is replaced with one that has the foglight switch built into it.

Yes...it is part of the head light/ turnsignal stalk on '07s.

Earlier models get the goofy little button just like (and next to) the cruise control button on the lower left of the dash.

Anybody figure out if you can use the '07 switches in the earlier Elements?!

Will

Yes...it is part of the head light/ turnsignal stalk on '07s.

Earlier models get the goofy little button just like (and next to) the cruise control button on the lower left of the dash.

Anybody figure out if you can use the '07 switches in the earlier Elements?!

Will


WE discussed it briefly not long ago.....but decided that it wasn't going to be any easy mod since the wires for the switch go thru the clock spring.

On my 06 when I install the fog lights the switch will be next to the cruise control. That's OK with me since I won't use the fog lights very often.

WE discussed it briefly not long ago.....but decided that it wasn't going to be any easy mod since the wires for the switch go thru the clock spring.

Thanks....guess I'll go w/ plan B....or D....or maybe Q....I gotta stop draggin' my feet on this install. :twisted:

Will

Thanks....guess I'll go w/ plan B....or D....or maybe Q....I gotta stop draggin' my feet on this install. :twisted:

Will

Tell me about it....i have had a set of fog lights sitting on my work bench for 7 months....still trying to find time to intall them.

On my 06 when I install the fog lights the switch will be next to the cruise control. That's OK with me since I won't use the fog lights very often.
Why do you feel you won't use them? I ask because I don't believe I have ever turned mine "off". I have found that they really don't annoy other drivers because they are so low (I looked myself from both our Lincoln and our Vette) and I think they really improve my side vision in particular, in conjunction with the regular headlights. They go off automatically when you switch to "high beams" - although frankly, I would LOVE it if they stayed on with those too (wonder what the logic is with having them off with the high beams since they are low and are aimed more downward?). While not as good as HID headlights, the E's regular headlights in conjunction with the fogs are the best "light" I have ever had vehicle with conventional headlights.

Today is the day. I have the tools, the parts, the instructions, and the time.

I'm going in.

Today is the day. I have the tools, the parts, the instructions, and the time. I'm going in.

Alright Rocket Dog, good luck! You know the drill soldier. Come back with pic's or not at all! :-P

Wooo Hooooooo.....

let's see 'em when yer dun!

has anyone seen Rocket Dog? he went in and never came out! :)

Let us know how it goes! PleASE!

We let the dealer do it ! I think its easyer for them and look at it this way if they mess it up they have to deal with it !:)

So far the Honda is winning. I'm halfway through.

Rocket Dog, just keep following the instructions IN THE ORDER THAT THEY APPEAR ON THE SHEET and you'll make it. You can get the job done in two steps, the stuff on the bumper and engine side and the the other the interior side. Good luck, you'll get there!

Hey MissleMutt aka: RocketDog press on brother......when yer done - yer gonna like it!
Hope your work space is warmer than mine.....28 degrees. :D

Greetings. I have a knack for making simple stuff harder. OK a BETTER way to put it is, I'm way out of practice on this kind of stuff.

Front end is off, holes cut, lights installed. I'm off to Lowe's for more wire ties to attach the grille guard I'm making since I have the front end off. I forget what people used for "edging" material on the grille guard. Anybody?

Buehler.....Buehler....

I forget what people used for "edging" material on the grille guard. Anybody?

Buehler.....Buehler....
I used the 'door edge guard', pack of 2 aprox. 30" from Walmart auto section; also at most auto parts stores.

I used the 'door edge guard', pack of 2 aprox. 30" from Walmart auto section; also at most auto parts stores.

Roger Roger.

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Rocket Dog,

I didn't use any edging because you don't see the edges when you leave sufficient amount of overhang on the mesh. I prefer the easier, softer way!

Rocket Dog,

I didn't use any edging because you see the edges when you leave sufficient amount of overhang on the mesh. I prefer the easier, softer way!

I'm inclined to do the same (no edging). I made a guard for the lower grille and since I had extra material made one for behind the upper grille too. I'm debating if I'll paint them or just leave the natural silver color.

27866

So far the Honda is winning. I'm halfway through.
that's your problem. it's not a competition. take a few minutes to explain to your vehicle why you are doing this and how it will help it become a better vehicle. it can become a role model for other vehicles that haven't yet seen the light.
and it that doesn't work there are other alternatives like high pressure air tools, sawsall and 10000W soldering guns. you might want to mention these alternatives during the discussion w/ the vehicle, if it exhibits extreme reluctance to become a team player. <grin>

someone one told me that you should never anthropomorphize inanimate objects because it gets them very upset.

My Honda and I are on very good terms. :D

It's done. I set out to accomplish the following:

- Install the Honda Fog Light Kit
- Install a Grille Guard (did upper and lower as it turned out)
- Repaint the silver inserts on the upper and lower grille

I did document the installation but seeing as this install has been posted here several times I'll post just a few pictures that might be of interest.

- Ted

I removed the front end and took it to my work room over the garage. Started with two rectangular sections of rain gutter covers thinking I would need an extra in case I gooned one up. As it turned out I made a grille guard for the upper grille to add "symmetry". If I don't like it after a week or two it comes off easily enough. The grille guard was the easiest part of the whole job, although it resulted in the most injuries. :rolleyes:

27882
Like most I used wire ties to attach the grille guard and did not use any kind of border material.

27884
Red circles indicate some of the attachment points. I used the screws which hold the black insert to the silver grille assembly for the upper attachment points and three wire ties across the bottom.

27883
Appearance from the front.

Again, many EOC members have been there, done that. Here are a few pictures of my installation. The most challenging part for me was routing the harness, particularly under the dash, but as has been said, if you follow the installation instructions carefully its pretty straight forward. The dealer quoted me just over a hundred bucks so I saved some coin for my next mod.

27885
Tools. I tested my new Dremel to make the cutouts. A regular razor knife (called for in the installation instructions) works perfectly on the circular portion but I liked the Dremel for the oval cutout across the top.

27887
Cable ties were a buck at Wal Mart.

27888
The paint was for repainting the silver parts of the front end.

27886
Used an awl to make the initial holes.

27889

27890

27891

Here's the last couple. Funny side note, when I tested them they were not lighting up. I re-checked the connections, fuses, all that. As I contemplated taking off the front end I re-read the directions and noticed the part about having your headlamps on LOW BEAM. Voilà! I took more pictures than I posted, again, because this mod has been thoroughly documented by others more adept than me. Overall I'm pleased with the results and am glad I did this rather than pay the dealer. Thanks to everyone for the advice and encouragement. :D

Anybody from VA here, who knows the rules on fog light alignment? :-?

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19VAC30-70-160. Auxiliary lamps: backup; cornering; driving; fog; spot and warning.

= = = = =

11. Fog lamps are not required. However, if installed they must operate and be inspected.

Inspect for and reject if:

a. A vehicle is equipped with more than two fog lamps;

b. Lamps are not of an approved type (DOT or SAE-F on front or F2 on rear plus two-digit year and manufacturer) or a lamp has been altered;

c. The lens is other than clear or amber. Fog lamps may have black-end bulbs or small metal caps over the end of the bulb;

d. The lens has a piece broken from it or is rotated away from its proper position. The lens may have one or more cracks provided an off-color light does not project through the crack or crack;

e. Wiring or electrical connections are defective or filaments do not burn;

f. Any fog lamp is mounted above the level of the regular headlamps, or is not mounted firmly;

g. Lamps are not wired and aimed according to the following instructions:

(1) Fog lamps are general illumination lamps as covered in subsection A of this section. They must burn through the tail light circuit even if on a separate switch. If installed on a vehicle with a four-headlamp system, or a vehicle equipped with driving lamps, they must be wired into the low beam circuit.

(2) Fog lamps must be aimed so that the top edge of the high intensity zone is set at the horizontal centerline and the left edge of the high intensity zone is set at the vertical centerline. (Same as low beam headlights.)

NOTE: Fog lamps must be aimed using the optical headlight aimer.

(3) A tolerance of four inches in 25 feet is allowed in both the horizontal and the vertical adjustment.

I can tell you from experience that VA will fail if one is burned out.

However, I do not think they will actually check the exact measurements of the light as it shines during inspections...unless they are really really picky.

Bottomline, follow the normal aiming directions that came with the fogs and you should be good :)

BTW, thanks Rocket Dog for the VA code. I am planning on installing Hella FF75s on my Accord, so this helps greatly.