Well the recent West Michigan Blizzard gave me the perfect climate to test the winter traction on our 2009 Element--between the 4wd and Traction Control-- the thing does great even with those crappy OE Tires. The thing is under perfect control at all times

see we told ya so....:grin:

Yep, I have a 07 EX and I have never had a issue with traction ,even when I had the crappy OE tires . Now I run American prospector SUV and they work great. The E is a perfect all around vehicle.

I dumped the Wranglers for a set of Michelin LTX M/S tires last week. The Wranglers did OK in our frigid clime but these LTX's are fantastic :grin: I had the LTX's on my Tracker and really liked them in all conditions, that's why I went to them on my Element.

If you think winter performance is good with all-season tires, you would be BLOWN AWAY by winter specific tires.

I've been having fun the past few days (when there hasn't been an idiot in front of me).

hs

I drove over a mountain pass in Idaho last Xmas that had 8-10" of fresh snow on it and never had any problems. That was with the Goodyear Wranglers on it. I now have Yokohama Geolanders and would like some more snow here in North Central Washington State just so I can try the tires out.

So, is the Element a balanced vehicle and that is why it does well in snow or is it because the traction control is good OR is it because the RT4wd is effective???

I keep on seeing the Subaru Youtube video showing just how ineffective the RT4wd system is on slippery surfaces. (Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw) I used to own a 1997 Honda CRV with RT4WD (1st gen) and i thought that it was a good system, but i never got the chance to try it out in the white stuff.

Thoughts?

I fully agree that tires are the most important part of the traction equation. AWD, 4WD, locking diffs (centre or otherwise) and traction control will not help you turn or stop. Its basic physics that helps here - friction is your friend.

I find, as well, that the E is a well balanced vehicle given how short a wheel base it has (longer is generally better for stability IME). Its centre of gravity is pretty low for such a tall vehicle as well.

Lets not turn into traction snobs, however. The Honda AWD system is not garbage - it works well (within its limits) and aside from an occasional change of fluid is maintenance free. The main limitation, as has often been pointed out, is the lack of ground clearance. Drive accordingly.

I wish I could figure out how to link to my FB videos so you could see an Element really getting exercise in the snow. So I hope some crappy pics will be OK.

I've had a couple of Subarus over the years, and I was a little worried about moving to an Element. But we've had a lot of snow so far in Colorado, and I've been absolutely amazed how well the Element handles. It seems well balanced, recovers from slides remarkably well, sticks well when accelerating, etc. No complaints yet. sorry Subaru!

I'm just a guy who drives an Element in modest midwest snows. Works fine here.

But this guy...this PVR guy... he LIVES for the snow. :lol:

TRUST WHAT HE SAYS.


I fully agree that tires are the most important part of the traction equation. AWD, 4WD, locking diffs (centre or otherwise) and traction control will not help you turn or stop. Its basic physics that helps here - friction is your friend.

I find, as well, that the E is a well balanced vehicle given how short a wheel base it has (longer is generally better for stability IME). Its centre of gravity is pretty low for such a tall vehicle as well.

Lets not turn into traction snobs, however. The Honda AWD system is not garbage - it works well (within its limits) and aside from an occasional change of fluid is maintenance free. The main limitation, as has often been pointed out, is the lack of ground clearance. Drive accordingly.

So, is the Element a balanced vehicle and that is why it does well in snow or is it because the traction control is good OR is it because the RT4wd is effective???

I keep on seeing the Subaru Youtube video showing just how ineffective the RT4wd system is on slippery surfaces. (Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw) I used to own a 1997 Honda CRV with RT4WD (1st gen) and i thought that it was a good system, but i never got the chance to try it out in the white stuff.

Thoughts?

I would like to see that test redone with the VSC turned off for the CRV, I'm guessing the results would be different as I have read that it is recommended that the system be turned off in that type of situation. Just curious, not trying to raise a stink.

The on demand AWD seems to work ok, but I agree that tires are the biggest help.
I had Blizzaks on an 86 Westy camper and an 86 Porsche. Amazing difference. Those cars would go through anything in the winter with those tires.
I put GY Triple Treds on the E, and they seem to work just fine. Not up to Blizzak standards, but good enough.

So I just sold my two Subaru's and bought myself an 09 EX and was very worried about its snow ability. Well after spending the last week in Tahoe and getting over 2 feet of snow I can say I agree completely. Even with the stock tires the Element drives great in the snow. Didn't even think about turning off the VSC to see what it would be like, but I never felt the system had to interfere. I do still plan on throwing some LTX's on there when I need new tires but thats just because I love those tires.

I live in Iowa and we've recently received almost 2 feet of snow all in 1-2 days and since I recently got a 2010 Element, it seemed like a good opportunity to see what it was like in the snow.

I live on some back country roads with a lot of turns, slopes, blind corners, etc and the Element handled everything beautifully. There are a few corners I remain cautious of due to previous encounters in my old car, but the Element never stepped out of line and made it around easily.

Even on slick ice, nothing trumped the Element. Not far from our house there is a hill that goes down at a 45+ degree grade and turns sharply as you go down, then when you get to the bottom, it continues to wrap around and finally goes back up hill so it basically makes a big 'U' shape. The other morning things warmed up a bit then re-froze making the curving hills look like a polished ice rink. I stopped the Element at the top, put it in first gear, then released the gas and brake and the thing crawled down without any problems or slipping. Then when I had to continue to turn and go back up the steep icy slope, I felt the front wheels slip, then the RT4WD must have kicked in because it plowed it's way back up without a problem...all this on stock tires too.

I've taken this thing through 8-10 inches of wet packed snow and it went through without any issues. I gotta say I'm impressed, for a vehicle with modest horsepower, relatively low ground clearance, and stock tires, it sure gets around in the winter very well.

I live in Iowa and we've recently received almost 2 feet of snow all in 1-2 days and since I recently got a 2010 Element, it seemed like a good opportunity to see what it was like in the snow.

I live on some back country roads with a lot of turns, slopes, blind corners, etc and the Element handled everything beautifully. There are a few corners I remain cautious of due to previous encounters in my old car, but the Element never stepped out of line and made it around easily.

Even on slick ice, nothing trumped the Element. Not far from our house there is a hill that goes down at a 45+ degree grade and turns sharply as you go down, then when you get to the bottom, it continues to wrap around and finally goes back up hill so it basically makes a big 'U' shape. The other morning things warmed up a bit then re-froze making the curving hills look like a polished ice rink. I stopped the Element at the top, put it in first gear, then released the gas and brake and the thing crawled down without any problems or slipping. Then when I had to continue to turn and go back up the steep icy slope, I felt the front wheels slip, then the RT4WD must have kicked in because it plowed it's way back up without a problem...all this on stock tires too.

I've taken this thing through 8-10 inches of wet packed snow and it went through without any issues. I gotta say I'm impressed, for a vehicle with modest horsepower, relatively low ground clearance, and stock tires, it sure gets around in the winter very well. Cool - sounds like a true winter car!

Definitely hasn't let me down!

Out where we live, everyone's got Ford, Chevy, and Dodge trucks, but funnily enough I see all those stuck in the snow off the side of the road while the little E just soldiers on through it.

My E has passed its first snow test here... and i've only had it less than a week.

Just a little wheel slippage off the line (gotta work the gas more gently) but it handled the slush and the half-inch of snow on the ground (so far) very nicely. A friend who has a 4Runner was riding with me and she didn't notice any skidding at all.

I took it up to 45 on the interstates and was blowing by a lot of people.

AWD + ABS = more confidence than having neither in a Civic. :grin:

A little trick to prevent wheel slip from a dead start, if you have an automatic. Start in 2 rather than D. ;-)

Definitely hasn't let me down!

Out where we live, everyone's got Ford, Chevy, and Dodge trucks, but funnily enough I see all those stuck in the snow off the side of the road while the little E just soldiers on through it.
I can't say much about Chevy or Dodge, but in all fairness it was physically impossible for my Ford F250 to get stuck anywhere.

As for the Element, I've only had it about a month, but it's been wonderful so far. We've had 2 medium sized snowstorms so far this season and the E did PERFECTLY. There is supposed to be a blizzard in the area this weekend, so I'm eagerly anticipating taking the E out for its first big snowfall encounter ;-)

I can't say much about Chevy or Dodge, but in all fairness it was physically impossible for my Ford F250 to get stuck anywhere.
...

That just means you haven't tried hard enough! :grin: You can get ANY vehicle stuck, the more capable the vehicle IME the more you can get stuck!

Hahaha, touche! Maybe I should've been more adventurous :grin:

da lil scottie speaks da truth bring dat f-250 here we will take it into da woods and stick it till ohhh summer...:razz::shock:

Last winter, I made it up a steep snow covered road, passing a stuck pickup truck. If only I had to towing capacity to help (oh, and a hitch) :-)

But for this storm, I'm stuck with a rental Ford Escape with 4/ or all wheel drive? My E was hit in the rear left wheel by a Volvo sedan and is in the shop. We'll see how the Escape does.. so far,I feel very cramped in it and I'm not that big..

Definitely hasn't let me down!

Out where we live, everyone's got Ford, Chevy, and Dodge trucks, but funnily enough I see all those stuck in the snow off the side of the road while the little E just soldiers on through it.

They are drivers with the 'bigger gun" mentality. My huge 4X4 can go anywhere at any time. Yeah-in a straight line. Without proper winter tires and some extra weight in the bed, a big 4X4 pick-up in not a very good handling snow machine. The old adage "the more capable the machine, the further into the quagmire it will get stuck" applies. I had the rear of my '97 F150 4X4 come around lightning quick going up a 12% grade. Ended up facing down the hill. Put 250lbs in the bed the next day and it solved the problem. The E needs no such help-just good tires and a sensible driver. They are a great winter vehicle.

PS- my wife now has an '03 Buick LeSabre (hey it was in superb shape and only $5500) and drove it in the snow for the first time on her way home from 11 to 7 shift today. Came in the door and said " Wow- the roads are awful, and I MISS MY ELEMENT!!"

Well the recent West Michigan Blizzard gave me the perfect climate to test the winter traction on our 2009 Element--between the 4wd and Traction Control-- the thing does great even with those crappy OE Tires. The thing is under perfect control at all times

The OEM tires are decent when new in the snow. Do yourself a favour and invest in some winter tires and you will be amazed in the difference. E

Mine is only FWD and I finally got to test my new Winterforce tires in a ice storm last night on my way home from work, I was doing 60 when everyone else was doing 35ish, the VSA kicked in 3 times, the E is really good in bad weather when you have good tires.

The snow is falling here and I am anticipating a nice drive later tonight through the neighborhood! :hol12:

First time I drove my E in snow and after 2 hours this morning I am extremely impressed. I drove through deep snow, ice, and up steep inclines and on the turnpike. The only thing that I did not do was fill my gas tank up for extra weight in the rear and with between a quarter and a half of a tank the rear end did fishtail going around slippery corners at a good rate of speed. I am sure that with a full tank this would not happen. But even if it does going slower around turns will also work. Superb all around snow, rain and dry condition vehicle.

well we got 8'' of wonderful snow here and i took the E'' out and it did great in the white stuff...:grin:

... The old adage "the more capable the machine, the further into the quagmire it will get stuck" applies.

+1

Drive accordingly!

My worst stuck ever was in the most capable vehicle I have ever driven for extended periods - a lifted Toyota Troop Carrier with locking differentials. I was bogged up to the axles in a dry river bed for 4 hours in 40+ C heat. Had to take everything out of the fully loaded vehicle, carry it to the other bank, repeatedly jack up the vehicle, pile rocks under the wheels and use sand ladders to get out. Then I had to reload all the gear. I sweated off a few kg that day.

I've never been that badly stuck again, largely because I now try and drive well within my vehicles capabilities. One experience of this kind of stuck is usually more than enough for most people.

I just took the Element up and down one of the steepest hills ever in the snow and it did perfectly. I even stopped on a really intense grade, facing uphill, and then started driving again and I could feel the 4wd kick in and pull the E right up the mountain. Awesome performance!

I just took the Element up and down one of the steepest hills ever in the snow and it did perfectly. I even stopped on a really intense grade, facing uphill, and then started driving again and I could feel the 4wd kick in and pull the E right up the mountain. Awesome performance!

This sounds so much like the conditions in that Subaru commercial that claimed the Honda failed miserably. "Oh! Wait a sec!" You were driving on ice & snow instead of rollers so that's why it worked. I forgot...

I won't get a chance to drive in the snow this time because I'm in PHX for Christmas with the grandkids. 73° and sunny. Glad we left early because the planes are going to be hosed up for a while. Merry Christmas
se

I just spent this past weekend driving in the Northern VA 20 inch blizzard picking up nurses and staff for area nursing homes and hospitals. My Element was amazing and I have the OEm tires. It got me everywhere I needed to go without missing a beat. Passed many other stuck FWD SUVs and large Dump truck snowplows.

Is it wrong to hug your Element? :lol:

Best Regards!

Paul D

ummmm Paul no its not wrong to hug ya E'' but it is wrong to have only 1 post....:razz:

Took my father's 06 E 4WD up skiing to mt hood yesterday (also got caught in the nightmare of a commute on the way back in Portland during a freak snow storm, took two hours to go ten miles). My father has Geolander snow tires on his E.

Comparisons to my 07 Touareg V6, which has normal M+S all seasons:
1. The E is not as solid feeling or sure footed as the Touareg. I think it mostly has to do with the Touareg's superior AWD (fulltime 50/50 distribution), but that would be expected for a vehicle that's twice the cost (and even more so in maintenance, main reason I am getting an E).

2. The Touareg is really good at accelerating from a complete stop in snow, no slipping whatsoever. I noticed the E can slip a little like being in a FWD car when accelerating from a stop.

3. The Touareg's AWD low setting (locks the center diff) is an amazing feature for climbing and descending steep hills. I live on a very steep hill and the low setting keeps the car at 20mph going down the hill. I don't even have to apply the brakes going down.

4. The Touareg's higher clearance really helps when having to drive on unplowed roads where the snow is deeper. This isn't a huge issue as I don't drive in deeper snow very often.


Overall I found the E's 4WD to be good enough, it just works, and will get you there, especially with snow tires. It didn't feel like it was on rails like the Touareg, like being locked into a single track, the E would slip side to side a little when driving up the curvy hill to Timberline lodge. Maybe it's the 4WD deciding on when to move power around, whereas on the Touareg, power is distributed evenly all the time.

It might not be as solid as the Touareg, but it's extremely competent for what it costs. Both vehicles climbed the steep hill up to my house with minimal slippage.

My father said in the 09 and newer E's the 4WD ratio has been adjusted to default more power to the rears all the time. Is this true? I could see that as an advantage as the system wouldn't have to spend as much time trying to decide when to send power to the rear.


Some other observations from an "expensive tank" owner:
1. Road noise. I didn't really think the road noise was that bad in the Element, which is usually the largest complaint I've heard.

2. The 4cyl engine. I was worried about going from a 280hp V6 to the "little 4 that could", but after climbing up mt hood with four people and ski gear, I never felt like I needed more power. Unlike the old 92 subaru legacy wagon I owned that was terrible underpowered.

3. The rear sunroof. Thought I'd really miss having this in the 10 I am looking at, but my father said he never uses it and from the driver's seat you don't really notice it being there to begin with.

4. Simplicity. Sure, there are a couple features I will miss from the Touareg:
A. The heated and auto-dimming mirrors.
B. The AFS xenon HID headlights, amazing but expensive technology.
C. The multifunction computer which displayed mpg, miles left on the tank of gas and other information. Could also change a lot of settings.
D. Heated seats, but most likely won't be needed with cloth seats.

Can anyone confirm that there was an 4wd change from '06 to '07? was more torque delivered to the rear wheels in the '07 in 4wd mode? It seems that I read that back in 07.

Nice write-up Shabbis.

I had some snowy excitement yesterday, and the Element (2010 EX AWD) did well. I had to drive (backwards) up a slightly sloping and extremely rutted road, pushing snow with the back bumper. The snow was old and heavy, adding to the challenge. The section of road was short, only about a hundred feet, but I had to start from a full stop. Hardly a slip, but power was a bit of a challenge. There was so much resistance that the engine struggled--I really had to push the gas to keep from stalling. But we made it, absolutely amazing. My old 1998 Subaru Outback would have been challenged too, and I don't think that it would have done any better.

I did turn off the VSA since the manual indicated that doing so would help if the Element got stuck. I figured that I was almost stuck, so why not just start with it off. I also still have the original tires, and they seem to work OK (but I do wonder what better ones would be like!).

I found that starting out (AT) in gear 2 is a must. My biggest issues have been from a dead stop and gun it. (Daaaaah!)

[QUOTE=steamloco76
PS- my wife now has an '03 Buick LeSabre (hey it was in superb shape and only $5500) and drove it in the snow for the first time on her way home from 11 to 7 shift today. Came in the door and said " Wow- the roads are awful, and I MISS MY ELEMENT!!"[/QUOTE]

And now we are selling said LeSabre and she is driving an ABM Element- and not liking the brand new Wrangler HP's the dealer installed. I must say, the Wranglers are not all that bad in snow when new, but the Nokian's on my Forester kick major snow arse.

I'm glad to hear this. We haven't been able to test our E in the snow yet. I was a bit skeptical coming from a subaru outback as our primary winter car. Can't wait to try it!

09 and newer E's the 4WD ratio has been adjusted to default more power to the rears all the time. Is this true?
Not true. The rears have 0% until the fronts slip.

Can anyone confirm that there was an 4wd change from '06 to '07? was more torque delivered to the rear wheels in the '07 in 4wd mode? It seems that I read that back in 07.

I would like to know this too. The CRV system was changed then. But in searching here I never saw a clear answer that that change was also added to the Element's AWD system.

I would like to know this too. The CRV system was changed then. But in searching here I never saw a clear answer that that change was also added to the Element's AWD system.

I have a 2009 CR-V....power only goes to the rear wheels when the front wheels slip. Same as the Element.

I have a 2009 CR-V....power only goes to the rear wheels when the front wheels slip. Same as the Element.

Right, the question here though is that in 2007 or so the CRV system was changed to deliver up to 70% of the power to the rear wheels (when the front slips), and we are wondering if that is also true for the Element. It seems like it must be true, since they have the same or essentially the same AWD system, but it would be nice to know that for sure.

I read somewhere that when the 4WD kicks in, the '07 E has 20% more power to the rear wheels then the '06 E.
This was in '07, I can not find anything out there now.
I know this is true about the CRV. I found an old data sheet on CRV.

Can anyone confirm this to be true?

Not true. The rears have 0% until the fronts slip.

I think Shabbis (my son) is aware of how the 4wd works. The question is when it does engage, does it have more power than the earlier E's?

4WD ratio has been adjusted to default more power to the rears all the time.

We can only respond to what a poster actually writes.

The specs for the 2007 E listed here (and elsewhere) indicate that up to 70% of the power can go to the rear wheels. The pre2007 E's had only 50% (I think?), so that would be 20% more, just like the CRV.

Available on LX and EX trim levels, Element's Real Time 4WD system delivers added traction in snow, rain and sand. Real Time 4WD sends power to the rear wheels when the front wheels experience traction loss. The rear differential contains two internal hydraulic pumps - one driven by the propeller shaft and one driven by the rear wheels - that circulate fluid through an internal multi-plate clutch system. When wheel slippage occurs, the flow rate is greater from the propeller shaft pump and forces the clutches to progressively engage, sending up to 70 percent of the torque to the rear wheels in slick conditions and 30 percent in dry conditions. The system operates automatically and only when needed, requiring no intervention on behalf of the driver to activate.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26906

The specs for the 2007 E listed here (and elsewhere) indicate that up to 70% of the power can go to the rear wheels. The pre2007 E's had only 50% (I think?), so that would be 20% more, just like the CRV.



http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26906


The specs for 2003 list up to 70% as well. No change was made on the E that i can ever find a record of.

Here is the press release from Honda in 2006, describing the changes to the CRV AWD system, including providing 20% more torque to the rear wheels and the faster response system. Did the Element's system also change in 2007? I thought the systems were the same. I also thought the Element added the "cam unit mechanism" to instantly engage the rear wheels, even before the clutch plate engaged.

For 2007, enhancements have been made to the system for improved performance by optimizing materials and construction, resulting in 20 percent more torque transfer to the rear wheels.

http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=3653

20" of snow in MD had nothing on my E, good fun and doghnuts cant wait to get my all terrains!!!