I've put in my CDT CL-6Xs in the rear. Playing with first the balance and then the fader, I can hear a definite difference between stock and the originals. More solid midrange with the CDTs but they're definitely less efficient that the stock. Not a surprise but such a difference I'm starting to think about an amp to drive the CDT CL6 components for the front.

Now my question(s) on installing those front CDTs. I want to use the CDT crossovers but I'm not sure where to tie those in. I understand that the wiring basically goes from amp to mid to high-pass filter to tweeter. I guess my problem is either identifying those wires or knowing how to get to them. One approach would seem to be to pull off the front door panel and splice in there. Then I've got one pair of wires running back out of the door to the input of the cross-over mounted under the dash. One set of output would run back to the door and the other would run up to the A pillar to the new tweeter. That means I need to remove the door panel and the panel covering the A pillar. I've seen some info on the A pillar but can't seem to find anything on the door panel. I've pics with it dis-assembled but that's not helping me much.

So... Is this wiring the best approach? How do I pull the door panels off? Do they just snap off like the speaker covers? Or is there some screw someplace that I'm likely to overlook when I resort to the crowbar? Any tips on running the wiring up to the tweeters? Or is there an accessible place to tap into that?

Thanks in advance!!

Steve

I thought I had answered these questions in your previous thread. I would recommend against pulling off the door panel. If your concern is running the wiring back through the door then you do not need to pull the door panel off. I used a heavy gauge coat hangar and duck taped my wires to it. It pushed thru the rubber sleeve in the front door hinge with some patience.

You can use zip ties to secure the crossovers under either side of the dash. There are metal cross braces there that would make easy mounting locations.

It sounds like wiring so it might be the best idea to start your wire run from the front door speaker harness. This way you do not have to worry about which wire to cut and so forth.

I got my CDTs too last week but haven't installed them yet.

Silk, are you using an aftermarket amp with your CDTs? GreenTurtle's comments got me thinking I should get an amp too before I install it all together.

Silk,

You gave me a ton of good answers in that last thread. But I was doing some more reading on line and came across a comment by eMass that the tweeters should really not be mounted in the A pillar and that they should be close to the mids. So I got to thinking about mounting them in the door, maybe towards the top of the removeable honda speaker grill. And it seems like that would be easier to do if I remove the door panel. (I've also got a dynamat extreme door kit to apply at some future date.)

When I was working on the speakers yesterday I couldn't see any obvious place (other than the connector right at the speaker) to tie into the wiring. After starting this thread I did track down another reference that led me to a good .pdf from HandA-Accessories.com that showed me how to remove glove box and stuff so I can get to the amp and the wiring. Hopefully that exposes the interior side of the rubber sleeve used to run the wiring to the door.

So I'm making progress. I appreciate all the help everyone's given me. I know I'll look back at the end and say to myself "ok, so what was the big deal?" :-)

Steve

guys, give me some help quick before i freak out. I just purchased the CL-61a components and C6-X reference rear speakers from CDT from www.thezeb.com based on the great prices and talk of quality. i was assuming these would be a straight replacement w/ crossover wiring only xtra w/ the tweeters. otherwise just buy the honda connectors and follow Element J's install. Since i'm new to all this i was going to leave it in the hands of my buddy who knows a little bit about speaker wiring.

Now im hearing that the CDTs are "less efficient" than the honda factory speakers? WTF!? please tell me you are joking. Or do you just mean that they are less efficient than you had expected? im on the verge of cancelling my order b/c of this. I just want some simple upgrades w/ good midrange and i thought any speaker would do, i chose CDT because i had read about the great prices for the quality.

I dont mind doing a little cutting as long as someone can walk me through it, i didnt cut holes for my fogs and do the physical install, just not the wiring yet (i'll leave that up to a friend too at a later date).

But am i going to have to open panels and go towards the hidden factory amp in order to get these speakers to work effectively? Its sounding more and more like a job for someone other than me and i wasn't hoping for that w/ my speaker choices.

help !

- M.

3hits -

Don't panic yet.

Yes the CDTs are less efficient than stock. Almost any aftermarket speaker is. I've only installed the CL-6Xs in the rear so far. The difference can be heard but it's not a huge difference volume-wise. For example, the amount of sound I hear from the CL-6x with the volume turned up to 4 is about the same as the stock speakers set on 3. I seldom listen at volumes above 3 anyway so I probably won't notice the difference. If you really crank it up, your results may vary.

That being said, I don't know what to expect from the CDT CL-6a components. They are definitely a heavier speaker. I'm pretty sure eMass has commented on checking to make sure the speakers are efficient enough. He may have even expressed some doubt about using the CL-6a with the stock amp. I did email CDT to ask about using them in this application (stock honda system putting out about 18w RMS) and they said they'd be fine, powerwise. I also asked about mounting depth. They said I could always add a spacer ring to reduce the depth.

Of course that leads into installation issues. You're sounding a little uncertain about actually doing the install. If you're uncomfortable pulling things apart, you might want to rethink this. Or go ahead and buy the speakers and find a local installer to do the install.

I can tell you that doing the rear speakers isn't too bad. It took me about 1.5 hours to do the first speaker and about 15 minutes to do the second one. It's mostly taking it slow and thinking it through.

Now, obviously I haven't done the fronts yet. I figure those will take some time. I also don't think they're going to be as easy, mostly because of their depth.

I don't know what to tell you. It's really about your comfort level. And how you feel about having your buddy do the wiring. For myself, I'm used to taking on new things where I have to learn a lot from scratch. That's really what I do for a living. I'm also not worried about what I need to do to get the system right. In the grand scheme of things the relative expense for me is minimal. I am planning on replacing the headunit. And, if I need to, I'll put in an amp to drive those front CDTs (can't you just feel eMass cringe?).

I'm glad to help you any way I can but it's your car, your time and your money so it's really your call.

Steve[/code]

ChumsGum: I am using the factory amp.

3hitsaday: You are assuming there is a direct relationship between efficiency vs. sound quality. That is not the case. I am using the factory amp and the CDT's sound tons better than the stock. There is a lot more clarity and presence than with stock.

You do not have to get to the factory amp to install your speakers. Just start your wire from the front speaker harness. Run two pairs of speakers wires from the speaker harness to your cross over mounted under the dash. Use a heavy gauge coat hanger and snake it through the rubber sleeve between the door and the car body. Connect one pair from the speaker harness to your crossover then connect the second pair from the crossover to your new front speakers.

GreenTurtle: Removing the glovebox makes it easier to work but by no means necessary. You can see where the wires go through the rubber sleeve by looking under the dash.

You keep referring to the amp so I am not sure what you intend to do with it. If I remember correctly, the amp will not be entirely exposed even if you remove the glovebox since there is still a plastic covering over it.

Regarding eMass's recommendation of mounting the tweeter closer to the woofer for better imaging. I believe he was referring to another member's install which included custom mold to mount the speakers. This directed the sound up towards the listener's ears rather than their ankles. It would probably sound worst if you simply mounting the tweeter above the woofer WITHOUT using a mold of some sort. Remember high frequencies are directional.

[quote:809388a0bc=" "]ChumsGum: I am using the factory amp.

3hitsaday: You are assuming there is a direct relationship between efficiency vs. sound quality. That is not the case. I am using the factory amp and the CDT's sound tons better than the stock. There is a lot more clarity and presence than with stock.

You do not have to get to the factory amp to install your speakers. Just start your wire from the front speaker harness. Run two pairs of speakers wires from the speaker harness to your cross over mounted under the dash. Use a heavy gauge coat hanger and snake it through the rubber sleeve between the door and the car body. Connect one pair from the speaker harness to your crossover then connect the second pair from the crossover to your new front speakers.
[/quote:809388a0bc]

ACK! After reading Silk's description of the speaker install, I suddenly realized how much EASIER it would have been if I were NOT adding an aftermarket amp to power my front CDTs...

Chums: I got the same CDTs you got (the HD62EFs). An email from CDT says they will run fine off factory power and that a recommended aftermarket amp should about 50-100 watts/channel. So go with Silk's recommendations regarding the speaker wiring and you'll never have to even cut a single stock wire. But since the RMS rating is a little higher on the HD62EF's than the CL-61a's, it might be better to go through the hassle of installing a 2nd amp.

I'm going to have it installed for me this week. Drop me a line so we can meet up and compare to see if there are any differences w/ and w/o the 2nd amp.

3hitsaday: Yeah, it sorta sounds like you might be confusing efficiency with sound quality. But I could be wrong. There are several posts as well as Crutchfield articles that explain the difference pretty well.

And isn't it kind of strange to you guys that it seems like most shops don't carry the CDTs?

ACK! After reading Silk's description of the speaker install, I suddenly realized how much EASIER it would have been if I were NOT adding an aftermarket amp to power my front CDTs...

Chums: I got the same CDTs you got (the HD62EFs). An email from CDT says they will run fine off factory power and that a recommended aftermarket amp should about 50-100 watts/channel. So go with Silk's recommendations regarding the speaker wiring and you'll never have to even cut a single stock wire. But since the RMS rating is a little higher on the HD62EF's than the CL-61a's, it might be better to go through the hassle of installing a 2nd amp.

I'm going to have it installed for me this week. Drop me a line so we can meet up and compare to see if there are any differences w/ and w/o the 2nd amp.

3hitsaday: Yeah, it sorta sounds like you might be confusing efficiency with sound quality. But I could be wrong. There are several posts as well as Crutchfield articles that explain the difference pretty well.

And isn't it kind of strange to you guys that it seems like most shops don't carry the CDTs?

Emass, on one of his post, explained how these speaker companies become a victim of their own success. Once a speaker gets popular, the manufacturer cut costs by manufacturing parts in China, etc, going after the all mighty profit margin. Sales increase due to past success but quality decreases. So thank the lord CDTs, Focals, and a few others haven't made it bigtime yet. When they do make it bigtime, you can bet another up and comer speaker will fill their void.

I still don't know if I'm gonna get another amp or not. My schedule is pretty tight so I can't even squeeze time in to install my speakers or shop around for an amp. I do know a small little car audio shop that has great prices and do great work. They installed my alarm and told me to come back for a stereo. If the price is right, I'll go with an amp. I'll keep you posted.

[quote:d1cf31ab4f=" "]I've put in my CDT CL-6Xs in the rear. Playing with first the balance and then the fader, I can hear a definite difference between stock and the originals. More solid midrange with the CDTs but they're definitely less efficient that the stock. Not a surprise but such a difference I'm starting to think about an amp to drive the CDT CL6 components for the front.

Now my question(s) on installing those front CDTs. I want to use the CDT crossovers but I'm not sure where to tie those in. I understand that the wiring basically goes from amp to mid to high-pass filter to tweeter. I guess my problem is either identifying those wires or knowing how to get to them. One approach would seem to be to pull off the front door panel and splice in there. Then I've got one pair of wires running back out of the door to the input of the cross-over mounted under the dash. One set of output would run back to the door and the other would run up to the A pillar to the new tweeter. That means I need to remove the door panel and the panel covering the A pillar. I've seen some info on the A pillar but can't seem to find anything on the door panel. I've pics with it dis-assembled but that's not helping me much.

So... Is this wiring the best approach? How do I pull the door panels off? Do they just snap off like the speaker covers? Or is there some screw someplace that I'm likely to overlook when I resort to the crowbar? Any tips on running the wiring up to the tweeters? Or is there an accessible place to tap into that?

Thanks in advance!!

Steve[/quote:d1cf31ab4f]

I just dropped-in my CL-6Xs in the rear doors today and they're awesome. Less efficient yes, but nothing like you exaggerated. You do lose a few notches in volume level but the increased sound quality makes the sound seem so much bigger. I can finally hear some nice highs coming out of the rears. I can't wait to install my CDT components next. Now those, I'm a little worried about because they look massive compared to the slim rear speakers.

Chums,

When the guys installed my speakers, they had to cut away the smaller plastic opening as well as some of the sheet metal behind it. I'm not entirely sure if you have to cut the sheet metal, but I was playing around with mine yesterday nite while inspecting the work they had done, and I can sort of imagine it being a difficult fit without cutting away the sheet metal. Not sure, though, since I really didn't look at the original opening.

Oh, and definitely get some baffles to protect them from water/rain/car wash, etc.

I still got a few good hours of inspecting the installation that was done on my cars. I checked the amp, the grounding point, and the speaker wires in the door sills today and they seemed fine. It looks like the problem right now is where the wires cross to the right side of the vehicle. I think that's where the engine noise is being picked up.

So plan your wire routing carefully if you're planning to add new wires and/or an extra amp. The engine and alternator noise are hella annoying.

sorry for caps but here goes..... DO NOT CUT AWAY SHEET METAL BEHIND THE SPEAKER OPENING!!!! There is a cross beam there for safety and it is TOTALLY unnecessary to cut any metal for this install. You may have to rotate the speakers so that the posts are on top rather than the bottom but don't go crazy with the hack saw. I did this because the cross beam does interfere with the post if aligned at the bottom.

Absolutely get some baffles because you will need to cut out the entire basket to get the depth you need. Without the basket there is nothing to prevent drips from the window to reach your speaker.

[quote:ace4a6a43f=" "]sorry for caps but here goes..... DO NOT CUT AWAY SHEET METAL BEHIND THE SPEAKER OPENING!!!![/quote:ace4a6a43f]

CRAP. Well, at least I can sue someone if I get into an accident. Sigh...

ChumsGum,

Sorry, but I think we agree. :-) The CL-6x speakers are less efficient. Not a lot. And that was the point I was trying to make. You do have to turn it up just a bit to get the same amount of sound. But it's not much, maybe a click or two. And the sound is definitely better.

Those components do look massive don't they. But I think they'll fit just fine. I'm hoping for a couple of free hours this weekend to do the install.

Later....

So I had a day off work today and I planned on installing my CDT components. All I had to do was buy some foam baffles and I'm good to go. 5 stereo shops later, not one had foam baffles. I asked why they don't sell them and they said, "In Southern California, rain and moisture is never a problem."

OMG. I'M HAVING THE SAME EXACT PROBLEM!!! GO FIG. And it's supposed to rain tomorrow, too.

I am ordering a couple sets from Crutchfield. Drop me a PM and I'll order a set for you and drop em off over the weekend or something.

I thought most car speakers were waterproof. Anyway, how much water could get in the door? I had a set of the foam baffles, the ones they sell at Cruchfield, but I threw them away. They were added free when I bought some speakers for my boat. They were really thick and interfered with mounting the speakers on my boat. Since they go between the speaker flange and the mounting location, they raise the speaker. This may be a problem on the E also.

How do the CDT classics compare to the Infinity REF6000ES separates? I can get the Infinity separates on ebay for about $120 shipped. They sounded pretty good at the store.

well it rained a little bit yesterday. mostly drizzle during the day, and then a brief hour of pounding rain...

after work, i got into my car, turned on the radio, and from the speakers came: BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!! I freaked out, turned off the radio, and took out the speakers. Luckily I had my portable drill/screwdriver with me.

The speakers looked dry enough to me. But i felt around the inside of the door compartment and felt moisture in different places. So I think it's more of an issue of moisture buildup around the connections rather than water seeping in. Fortunately, when I got home, I reconnected the speakers and they sounded fine.

And my opinion is that if you liked the Infinities, then just stick with em. Or find someone with the CDTs installed and listen for yourself. Don't get too carried away by all the posts on the forums regarding CDTs until you've heard them yourself.

[quote:964c9d141c=" "]OMG. I'M HAVING THE SAME EXACT PROBLEM!!! GO FIG. And it's supposed to rain tomorrow, too.

I am ordering a couple sets from Crutchfield. Drop me a PM and I'll order a set for you and drop em off over the weekend or something.[/quote:964c9d141c]

Yeah thanks for the offer but I think I'll go without the baffles since none of the shops out here use them. I've also checked inside the doors after the rain and found no moisture whatsoever.

Speakers designed for car audio applications can handle a wider range of elements from temp., moisture, etc. It is entirely incorrect to assume they are waterproof. You are still dealing with an electrical component with exposed terminals.

It is even more important for boats. Salt water, condensation, oh my ...

I bought my CDT Classics for $130 at Main Street Audio. It doesn't make sense for me to skimp on a $9 set of baffles for my $130 speakers.

I want to replace tweeters but can,t seem to find any info..I want to use existing location. are these 3 in ? what size do I need?

umm...i don't believe tweeter size will be too much of an issue unless you get some seriously high-end components that have monster tweeters.

In my case, I purchased the CDT components and the tweeters fit fine behind the plastic enclosure of the A-pillar. The installer used one of those brackets like you would find in a computer and bent it so it would allow the tweeter to fit snugly behind the enclosure.

If you're planning on purchasing the tweeters seprately, I would suggest getting nothing bigger than 2.5". I don't even think they are produced that large....but mine are 1" and that's pretty typical.

And if you're still not sure, remove the rubber lining from the door frame and pull the a-pillar's plastic enclosure out. pull it out diagonally toward the radio.

I have the Kappa 602S plus reference 1001T tweeters ordered NOW...

I want to change H/U but I would then want an amp . My question: where could I possibly put one in where its somewhat out of the way ? I see no place -the cargo area is busy



Gomer

there are a number of places...
normally under the seats, but that would require removing the seats. i've seen the instructions posted and it doesn't seem like a difficult removal, but let me know and I'll find it for you. it's somewhere on the other E forum.

in my case, i have it installed on the side wall above the left pocket in the cargo area. the problem with that place (and with the opposite side as well) is that you have to run longer cables which increases the opportunities for noise to enter your cables. the second problem is that these surfaces aren't flat and it'll be difficult to mount your amp securely (my amp is only securely mounted by 3 screws, the 4th screw doesn't hold on) And the 3rd problem is that these walls are plastic...so hopefully the amp you choose isn't too heacy. (ihave a 2 channel amp)

however, it doesn't get in the way of anythign since i don't use the side pocket for anything right now

looking under front seats I can put alpine MRV-T320 80X2 IT FITS WITH AMPLE SPACE...Now running wires ? If I skip the amp and use a good H/U
ie. Pioneer DEH P7500 MP, AND KEEP FACTORY AMP...WHAT DO YOU THINK?
AM IN N.W. ARKANSAS AND FINDING AN INSTALLER ITS VERY DIFFICULT.

i WOULDN,T WAT TO MOUNT AMR WHERE YOU MENTIONED.......OVER STORAGE IN...SCREWED TO PLASTIC... THESE ARK. ROADS WOULD SHAKE IT LOOSE ZIP/POP

you mentioned a thhread "somewhere" dealing with passenger seat removal
if I decide to put AMP in that would make things easier

Fox,

I don't recall the exact thread you refer to but here's something I came across... http://www.collegehillshonda.com/instructions/03element/cdchanger.pdf. This shows you how to install the factory cd changer under the passenger seat. While that's not exactly what you're doing, there's quite a bit that could be useful in the way of detaching bits and pieces.

But after reading this over myself, I suspect that I'll just work with one of the better local installers when it's time to put an amp in my element. One of the shops I visited was pushing an Eclipse HU with a Zapco amp. Pretty sweet but I'm not ready to drop that much. I'll probably take it a step at a time. But the point is that the install cost of the amp was about $100. Or I could probably spend a whole weekend to get it almost right.

Either way, enjoy!!

http://www.hondaelement.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4473

sorry guys...i haven't been looking at the boards until now. hope this helps with the seat removal.