The Element doesn't have a timing belt. No 60,000 mile belt change! saves big $$$.

Agree?

Agree.

I had a timing chain in a truck and it went forEVER and then I sold it - dumb move .

Definately a Money saver

Very good news. My last pickup broke its belt at 62K miles and the shop wanted $600 to replace it. And because it broke while I was driving it, they were telling me that all my valves would probably have to replaced because the pistions most likely crashed into them.

Fortunately, I knew a guy who was familiar with my engine and he told me that the valves did not intrude into the path of the piston and that the shop was just trying to pad the repair charges.

I ended up paying $70 for the new belt and installed it myself. It took me 10 days and I had to remove everything in front of the engine - bumper, grille, radiator, fan, etc. - because I did not have the means or know-how to pull the engine.

TELL ME.....HOW IS THIS SO???

e-MAIL me if you must but tell me.

No timing chain!?! That's hard to believe but good news if that is true. If true what does Honda use in place of a timing chain?

Okay guys. Most vehicles today use TIMING BELTS. I've owned Accords, CRXs, and Civics - all with timing BELTS. These belts are rubber and dry out stretch and wear. They have to be changed every 60,000 miles.

Okay. Heavy Duty vehicles, I had a FORD F250 had a timing chain. It is a metal chain - doesn't dry out - doesn't stretch - doesn't need to be replaced. I drove that Truck for 10 years and never had it touched, got rid of the truck (dumb move) and I bet it drove for another 10.

The Element has a Timing CHAIN, not a rubber belt. So, unlike the Accords, preludes, Civics, S2000, the timing belt does NOT need to be changed every 60,000 miles.

This saves a costly repair and a day lost in the shop every 60K. It's a good deal - believe me.

"The Element has a Timing CHAIN, not a rubber belt. So, unlike the Accords, preludes, Civics, S2000, the timing belt does NOT need to be changed every 60,000 miles. "

This is another reason why my element makes me happy :D :D

Hate to be a skeptic but just want to make sure I have my facts straight. The Element has a CR-V motor, so does the CR-V have a timing chain versus a timing belt?

Must be a I-VTEC thing.

[quote:e9d49dccd5="Simon"]Okay. Heavy Duty vehicles, I had a FORD F250 had a timing chain. It is a metal chain - doesn't dry out - doesn't stretch - doesn't need to be replaced.[/quote:e9d49dccd5]

Timing chains stretch. Timing chains are a "wear part" and need to be replaced as a part of scheduled maintenance, typically every 60,000 miles to 75,000 miles. They can last longer than that.

Over time, even metal stretches.

To okfine. The CR-V and E share the same motor. Both have timing chains, not timing belts.

This was part of the reason I wanted one!

After spending 4 hours changing the timing belt on my 97 Civic, I decided my next car wouldn't have a timing belt. It's not that the belt is difficult to change or is a poor design, I just prefer the "chain". Thankfully most of Hondas new engines now have chains.

Does the timing chain appear anywhere on the recommended maintenance schedule of the E?

Peace out,
-jdef

jdef -Nope. Run it till it breaks.

So am I reading info correctly? No timing belt but timing chain. When should it have maintenance? I have 62,000 miles.

The timing chain in the Element will go more than 200,000 without being changed. Several of our members have reached that benchmark without changing it. The Part that puts tension on the chain will topically not last as long as the chain itself.

There are several threads that address this in the forum. Some with Photo's, some with Instructions.
A search showed several threads threads on this topic. This (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43881&highlight=%22timing+chain%22) is one of them.

Dom

Thank you for the info and for not making me feel like an idiot. I did search for the info, both in the mannual and under maintenance and could not find anything. Helpfulness, not arrogance. Another reason to love my Element, nice people!

Timing chains still need replacing, but typically much farther out than a belt.

& not all belts are created equal either as Subi. timing belts require changes @ 105k.

Most chains run from 110-125k, but it's not unheard of to keep on going past that point. Even my VW VR6 is usually pushed back to 150k or so.

"Need replacing... typically much farther out than a belt"? Certainly not on any predetermined schedule. "...110-125k,"? No, how about "the life of the engine".

Said before, and repeat as necessary: E's timing chain is not a scheduled service item. With proper care (oil & filter changes) and reasonable vehicle operation (NOT thousands of miles at 5000 rpm), it should last at least 200-250K, right along with other overall engine wear issues. Replace when and only when a problem with it is diagnosed.

Bottom line: DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.

"Need replacing... typically much farther out than a belt"? Certainly not on any predetermined schedule. "...110-125k,"? No, how about "the life of the engine".

Said before, and repeat as necessary: E's timing chain is not a scheduled service item. With proper care (oil & filter changes) and reasonable vehicle operation (NOT thousands of miles at 5000 rpm), it should last at least 200-250K, right along with other overall engine wear issues. Replace when and only when a problem with it is diagnosed.

Bottom line: DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.

Thanks Mike. I am glad someone said it.

Is the E motor a non-interference motor? Meaning if the chain breaks - the valves and pistons will be ok? my mazda has a belt but its a non-interference motor - so i can run it till it breaks and the motor will be fine. Will just need to replace the belt. If the E is a non-interference motor.. then i would say you can run it till is snaps.. not a good idea as i am sure a broken chain flapping around will surely tear something up.

IIRC the K24 is an interference engine, so if the chain breaks there will be all kinds of damage. However chains usually give plenty of warning as they wear out.

The timing chain was introduced with the S2000's "F" series engine in 1999. The K24 and K20 engines followed. The chain is a superior design and as an experienced Honda mechanic I was glad to see the update.

One of the primary issues with the "K" series engine like the K24 in our beloved Element, revolves around the timing chain tensor. The chain tensor is hydraulic actuated by the engine oil pressure. After being extended the tensor piston is held into place by a ratchet mechanism. The failure is due to the ratchet teeth prematurely wearing.

Diagnosis: If you are getting a ticking sound from the engine similar to the sound related to poor valve adjustment I would suggest changing out the tensor assembly. The job is very easy and parts are relatively cheap. There are even stronger aftermarket replacements available.

I have both types of engines from Honda. I have 3 1984 CRXs and a 2004 S2000.

Trent

The timing chain was introduced with the S2000's "F" series engine in 1999. The K24 and K20 engines followed. The chain is a superior design and as an experienced Honda mechanic I was glad to see the update.

One of the primary issues with the "K" series engine like the K24 in our beloved Element, revolves around the timing chain tensor. The chain tensor is hydraulic actuated by the engine oil pressure. After being extended the tensor piston is held into place by a ratchet mechanism. The failure is due to the ratchet teeth prematurely wearing.

Diagnosis: If you are getting a ticking sound from the engine similar to the sound related to poor valve adjustment I would suggest changing out the tensor assembly. The job is very easy and parts are relatively cheap. There are even stronger aftermarket replacements available.

I have both types of engines from Honda. I have 3 1984 CRXs and a 2004 S2000.

Trent


but then that means that i'll have to pop out the valve cover..

cmon...........

lol, skunk2 tensioners anyone? :grin:

i have owned a 98 civic and a 2000 crv both had belt changes at a hundred thousand k. the 98 was in excess of three hundred thousand before being passed on to a family member. the crv had 275 k on it before i wrecked it in a head to head with bambi's mother ,thus i now have my element.

Diagnosis: If you are getting a ticking sound from the engine similar to the sound related to poor valve adjustment I would suggest changing out the tensor assembly.

I am at 70,000 miles and I just started hearing a tapping. However, mine is at startup and lasts for about a mile (or until engine temp is at operating temp) and then goes away. Would a tapping that occurs at startup then goes away likely be related to the timing chain tensor maybe?

It did just start as the winter set in. Wondering if that was coincidence or if the colder starts make it more pronounced.

Shon

The Helms manual has no service limits stated for the timing chain, so, tough to measure wear on it. The chain tensioner has been discussed, and may go bad/noisy on you. With good oil changes and as the miles rack up, keep tabs on the tensioner, I can't quite figure out why you would want to change the chain out. Perhaps on really high mileage engines the chain will wear out, but at that point, if the body is fine, changing out the entire engine with a quality remanufactured engine might be less labour cost than a shop engine rebuild, and offer new life to the car. If you are willing to put in a new/ remanu engine, great time to have any goodies added and tested ( turbo, aftermarket computer, headers, you know the list).


If the chain really is worn out, chances are camshaft, pistons, oil pump gears and a whole slew of parts are worn beyond their service limits.

Or do a cylinder head upgrade and new chain, if you can establish the lower engine/ sleeves/pistons/crankshaft/connecting rods etc are all good for more mileage.

Typically, with a chain replacement, the upper and lower sprockets, and other items in contact with the chain are usually replaced to allow proper break in and wear.

Check out tribology for the awful details of wear.


And we haven't even talked tranny at that mileage.