I got into a little accident recently and it costs me $1500 to get it repair. I rear ended someone at a stop light. No more than 10 mph. My condenser and radiator cracked due to a bad design by Honda Engineer. FYI, as an Element owner I would advise everyone to remove or do something with the front License plate assembly. If you hit something in the front the license plate assembly will pushed against your condenser/ radiator and damaged them. You you guys want pictures email me at rnguyen22@yahoo.com

Don't know how to insert images !

I still love my E! [/img]

Your story made me immediately visualize that the tab/hook thingies on the top of the plate holder become one big spike right into the critical bits you talk about.

:shock:

Sounds like another mod is in order.

You are right in your assessment, though: the plate holder was clearly an afterthought.

The IIHS (insurers testing organization) rates the bumpers of the Element as Acceptable in low speed (5mph) tests
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/low_speed_smsuv.htm

In the small SUV size, only the Forester has a better bumper rating than the Element.

Here's a press release with 5mph costs for midsize cars:
http://www.hwysafety.org/news_releases/2004/pr022904.htm

Here's the press release with numbers for the Element
http://www.hwysafety.org/news_releases/2003/pr031803.htm

If your crash was indeed at 10 mph, the impact forces could have been 4 times that of the forces in the IIHS tests, with larger damages.

No, the problem Robert describes doesn't have anything to do with the testing. The front license plate mount is a poorly-thought-out add-on that would not have been on the vehicles under test. Its positioning creates a potential for costly damage that would otherwise not be there without it in minor front-end contact.

Don't take his "10 mph" literally. That was a guess on his part - if the total damage amounted to $1500 including the radiator and condensor then it was well under 5 mph or less. The position of the plate mount is such that even a minor bumper tap will result in enough deflection to push the bracket into the mechanical assemblies.

An alternative license plate mouting ideas?

My front plate mount came in a plastic bag in the backseat...Now it's in a plastic bag under my workbench.

Why use the front plate mount at all? If your state requires a front plate, just screw it into the bumper, leave the mount off.

[quote:902dc2dca5=" "]Why use the front plate mount at all? If your state requires a front plate, just screw it into the bumper, leave the mount off.[/quote:902dc2dca5]

Because then you have to put holes in the bumper that will still be there if you move to a state that doesn't require a front bumper.

Because without the mounting bracket your plate gets all warped and crappy looking over time.

I hate that my state requires the stupid front bumper. It's ugly looking, especially on sportier cars.

I just looked at my Element, and don't see how the license plate mount (8) could hit the condenser without bending the main bumper beam (4) behind the trim. The license mount clips to the trim, but the beam edge is a good half inch closer to the condenser.

http://www.slhondaparts.com/images/PCI/13SCV0/013/4.jpg

After removing the plate and bracket, I brought it in the house and showed it to my wife, explaining the (potential) problem. Her exact reaction was "My gosh! It takes 2x4's to hold the plate on?"

The plate bracket is ridiculously over-engineered. It's a belt and two pairs of suspenders.

My solution is to cut the top tab back even with the slot for the grille, and then use larger-diameter screws into the existing holes (hidden behind the plate) in the bumper fascia. If I ever notice that it starts to sag, then a couple of stainless-steel screws into the tab and top of the fascia will fix that.

You don't want to cut the tab completely off because then it will be relying solely on the screws for vertical support. The plastic box is a little too heavy for that.

As far as the "moving to a state without a front plate" - of which there are only 15 - that's really a non-issue. Replacing the silver-colored bumper trim bit is $28 for an EX, $37 for a DX. Or you can spend a buck on plastic push-in fasteners to fill the holes neatly.

Correction: You will need to put one or two small-diameter screws in the top tab into the fascia. It rattles if you don't.

I just looked at my Element, and don't see how the license plate mount could hit the condenser without bending the main bumper beam (4) behind the trim. The license mount clips to the trim, but the beam edge is a good half inch closer to the condenser.

I see what you're saying, but the tab is long enough to make contact before the beam deflects. The plate holder will tend to ride up and over, which is the typical dynamic in a slow-speed brakes-on-hard "tap". The beam also distributes (and absorbs) the energy across a broad area while the plate holder literally has a "spike".

We're splitting hairs here, but for me the upshot is that its design is the type of thing that will make a difference between driving home and needing a tow after a minor "mishap".

As far as the "moving to a state without a front plate" - of which there are only 15 - that's really a non-issue.

A non-issue, that's 30% of the states! Why, why, that same percentage is applied to people here with windshield issues and sounds huge! :lol:

Thanks for the tips on adjusting the plate bracket. :)

I went to PEPBOYS and bought a set of rubber pieces used between the shock or strut for larger trucks. It's about 1"x2"x4", I epoxy it to the inside of the bumper or you could expoxy it to the metal impact beam. It comes in 2 pieces. If a front end collision happened the bumper will engaged the rubber pieces before the license plate hook hit the condenser. I think this is best solution.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/IMG_1950.jpg

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/IMG_1949.jpg

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/IMG_1963.jpg[/img]

I am still talking through my hat, having yet to make a really close investigation. But being in a state that REQUIRES a front plate, I am thankful for this heads-up on a potential problem.

I have never liked that license bracket from the start. It gets in the way of aftermarket grills and just looks silly overbuilt, but I agree just bolting the plate to the bumper is bound to look ratty eventually...although I have considered that.

Before closely looking at the situation this weekend and messing up my theory with reality.......

I see the problem being the overkill spike/bracket sticking out of a nicely formed to the bumper flat plate mount. Maybe this should be stated as a question for now.....

Can't the part sticking back be cut flush to the contoured "mounting block". Then, With the plate removed, use a couple of big ole stainless countersunk head bolts through that the plate holder and bolt directly into the bumper, with nuts locktighted on the far side. I am hoping two big ole bolts would do it. Its all plastic, so it should be easy to match drill. :)

Then mount the plate on the block, covering the countersunk screws. So now if you are hitting hard enough to smush your plate block into the condensor, odds are the other car or post you just ran into is planted in there too anyway.

If this works, it should look cleaner but still have a good surface for the plate to mount to.

Looks like the front end needs to come off AGAIN......sigh....
At least I can upgrade my custom aluminum gutter-mesh grill to black plastic like I have wanted since I finally found black anyway. :)


All in theory, based on a quick glance in the dark so far though...

I am certainly open to easier/better ideas!

I went down to my local Schucks auto supply and found a license plate bracket, and a nice metal frame over a slightly tinted and lightly buldged transparent cover. The bracket says its made for "replacing bulky factory license holders". I did actually BOLT the bracket onto the bumper with a couple of nice stainless steel heavy bolts, which required unsnapping that small section of bumper to get a loctited nut behind. I used the bracket's factory screws to hold the plate assembly on,(weakest link in the system now) although I might replace that with some nice stainless cap bolts or something later. I had a couple of black "xmas-tree" snap in fasteners to keep the top from rattling. Not as nice as leaving off the legally required front plate, but not nearly the overkill. I have no clue as to why they use that monster bracket originally. This setup is SOLID and has NO RATTLE. SEEMS plenty good. Heres a pic of the installation. (first shot at putting in a pic...hopefully it works) Note my elly has the gutter guard grill and X-pel over the lights and nose in this pic.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/HE9615frame.jpg

Frankly? That looks great! Good job!

Looks great, but...

I don't know WA law, but NY says "no cover over the plate". You might want to check it out.

I guess I should check out the legality of a clear "covered" front plate for WA.

After all. i wouldn't want to mess up the cops revenue-gathering laser-guns. :)

Very odd that they would be selling this item at the local car parts store if it was illegal. Mail order I could see having to be careful, but jeez, do I have to hire a lawyer to review my purchases at a local store now? ....sigh....

A question for those who have cut back the 'spike' on the factory bracket:
Instead of screwing the remainder of the spike to reduce rattle, could you have passed a zip tie around the vertical bar of the grill (and through 1 or 2 holes drilled in the spike)?

Any thoughts about mounting the license in the middle of the grill? I think there should still be enough ventillation, and it would partly address the concerns about an overly exposed condenser. Plus the plate would not be the first thing to contact the crash barrier.

paulj

[quote:896298541b=" "]Frankly? That looks great! Good job![/quote:896298541b]

Yeah, nice idea, and nice job. I like it way better than the OEM.

Not legal here in TX though. Recently they added a new law that makes virtually all plate frames illegal. It's a drag, since now I have to buy Georgia Tech stickers rather than using my frame... :)

It's a great idea and I'm going to see if I can adapt it to my state's requirements...

Bill

[quote:6f54cc6d78=" "]Not legal here in TX though. Recently they added a new law that makes virtually all plate frames illegal.[/quote:6f54cc6d78]

In Texas? Really? :)

-brendan

Very odd that they would be selling this item at the local car parts store if it was illegal.

Oh, you don't understand. It's not illegal to own one, it's just illegal to use it. :shock:

We have the same situation on Long Island. Many stores are selling those little motorized scooters, both electric and gas powered. Sadly, many parents are finding out the hard way that it's illegal to ride them almost anywhere. They are considered "motor vehicles", and cops will confiscate them if they catch kids riding them. And since they don't conform to vehicle requirements, you can't ride them on the street or any public land. It's OK to go up and down your driveway though.

[quote:41ac82ca7b=" "]In Texas? Really? :)
[/quote:41ac82ca7b]

Shocking, isn't it? In a state where you are supposed to drive off onto the shoulder to let a faster car pass you (no kidding), you can't have anything touching any of the writing on the plate.

Bill

You know...my friend rear-ended a Suburban in his 6th Gen. Accord (Maybe 10 MPH...his brakes failed, yipe!) and yes, his radiator and condensor ALSO went out on him. It's amazing how similar these problems sound, and even the repair cost sounds similar.

The Condensor is placed right by the crumple zone of the bumper. The Suburban unfortunately had a steel bumper, and things got ugly from there...sorry to hear about your Element.

Following up on the concerns over the license plate holder having a 'spike' that could damage the condenser in a minor crash, I trimmed mine back a bit. I cut off the hook end of the holder, basically the last half inch. Others have then screwed the remaining part to the top of the bumper trim. Instead, I drilled a couple of holes in the remainging 'spike', and secured it to the grill with a couple of zip ties. Working through the open center of the plate holder, I kept most of zip ties out of sight. I probably could have trimmed the 'spike' back another half inch.

paulj

Maybe I am missing something, but I checked out my bracket and cannot see
any kind of hook protruding that would be a problem.

Do I have a different kind of bracket? Maybe the ones supplied in Canada are different?

Rage

On the parts diagram on the previous page, the bracket, part 8 has horizontal entension that hooks around the edge the trim, part 3. It has a slot that fits around the center vertical bar of the lower grill. It is the part that hooks around the trim that some fear could damage the condensor if the bracket is hit. It is made from sturdy but somewhat flexible black plastic.

Where would one find out which states require a front liscence holder? I'm assuming my state doesn't require one or I would've heard about it by now. However, I could be moving soon and it'd be nice to know what they require of me.

For those of y'all that do have to have the front plate holder, why exactly is that and what do you have on it? Do they issue you two license plates? Curious.

[quote:6b9c7faecd=" "]For those of y'all that do have to have the front plate holder, why exactly is that and what do you have on it? Do they issue you two license plates? Curious.[/quote:6b9c7faecd]

Yep, two plates and four stickers.

-brendan

>Where would one find out which states require a front liscence holder?

From the other direction, here are the states/provinces which only issue (and require) one license plate:

Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Mississippi
New Mexico
North Carolina
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
West Virginia

Puerto Rico

Quebec

If your new state is not on that list, you'll be getting two plates. In some areas, don't think about "ignoring" the front plate requirement - the new camera-enforced radar and stoplight systems need front plates, and you risk ticketing for not displaying one.

I think as a matter of honor, all of you in the police states that require front licenses should remove them and advocate civil disobediance until your jack-booted leaders revoke these crushing regulations.

Arizona - Home of the right to bear arms and have a bear front bumper!

I think as a matter of honor, all of you in the police states that require front licenses should remove them and advocate civil disobediance until your jack-booted leaders revoke these crushing regulations.

Arizona - Home of the right to bear arms and have a bear front bumper!
:lol:

However...

Arizona - Home of photo radar. American Traffic Systems (in Scottsdale) is the original purveyor of modern radar and stoplight cameras used against motorists in Arizona, and elsewhere. Funny how a "one plate state" is the source of one of the most "jack-booted" concepts found on the road.

:P

Not sure this is in the right Forum (a little confusing first time), but the topic of Bad Bumper Design and the messsages and, especially, images made me cringe with recognition. Here's my experiences with some questions. (apolgies to those of the N. Cal. HE club, I posted this on their forum, too).

I have a 2003 Element and love it, but it's been in two accidents that have made me question the ruggedness of the front end. One was my son's hitting an SUV rear when I first got the car (don't ask) for $4000 damage (insurance paid - good repair job by body shop). The other was a front end hit to a Honda civic bumper by me (very little damage, no insurance involved).

Both accidents showed me that there really is no bumper on this vehicle. That rugged-looking front end is just a plastic cover. Only two 'beams' protrude from the frame toward the front. The second accident cause the radiator to to get ****ed a little and then leak imperceptively until the car overheated. No engine damage done, but finding the leak was a pain and now I'll pay over $1000 for a radiator & condensor replacement (can't be repaired -- I trust my garage, not the dealer).

Anyway, it seems like the front end is not designed to take ANY kind of hit. My old '83 Tercel with the then-mandatory 5 mph bumper took plenty of jolts front and back with no effect. Looks like the Element is more delicate than it appears.

Has anyone else had this problem? Any fixes (like an add-on bumper of some sort)? Other information welcome. Just sad for such a nice car.

-- Lou Pecora

Lou, you might want to take a look at this thread:

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9596

According to the Insurance Institute tests, you'd have to get a Forester to get better bumpers than the Element, at least within this category of cars. There are only a few 'goods' in any of the categories.

oryhttp://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/low_speed_smsuv.htm

They perform a series of impacts, and rate cars by the repair costs. Part of the Element's 'Acceptible' rating comes from the ease of replacing damaged parts. Due to goverment tests, auto makers are more concerned with high speed tests (e.g. 40 mph) than with low speed damage.
paulj

My truck is twelve years old an has 108k miles on it. It has never had a front plate mounted on it. There's no place to put one because it has an aftermarket smooth front bumper. I keep the plate behind the seat. I live in CA, and I've been to NV, AZ, OR and WA in the truck and have never been bothered by the police. Maybe they have more important things to do than enforce the front plate law.

Dave

[quote:a16b671d35=" "]Lou, you might want to take a look at this thread:

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9596[/quote:a16b671d35]

Thanks, Will do.

[quote:53118eb618=" "]My truck is twelve years old an has 108k miles on it. It has never had a front plate mounted on it. There's no place to put one because it has an aftermarket smooth front bumper. I keep the plate behind the seat. I live in CA, and I've been to NV, AZ, OR and WA in the truck and have never been bothered by the police. Maybe they have more important things to do than enforce the front plate law.

Dave[/quote:53118eb618]

You live in an enlightened region. I'm in Virginia and had my front plate fall off my old Tercel, so I put it on the dash that day since I had to wait to fix it and had to go into Washington DC. The DC police gave me a ticket because my Virginia plate was missing in the front, even though it was right there in plain view on the dash. How's that for anal?

The DC police gave me a ticket because my Virginia plate was missing in the front, even though it was right there in plain view on the dash. How's that for anal?
No, that's not anal, that's the direct result of the photo radar and red-light cameras they've fallen in love with inside the Beltway. If you don't have a front plate that's easily seen by a tax-collection (uh...enforcement) camera, you're going to get a ticket.

My experience from living in DC is that the police are primarily revenue enforcers. Twice I was stopped by roadblocks in Alexandria where they wanted to verify that I had the city tax sticker on my vehicle, yet the following week when my car was broken into (and I was nearly mugged), there was zero interest in taking a report... they didn't have the manpower to spare.