Rear Differential Dynamic Damper [Archive] - Honda Element Owners Club Forum

: Rear Differential Dynamic Damper


MightyTaco
10-28-2008, 06:02 PM
Hi Guys,

I was wondering if anyone had real pictures or maybe an exploded view of the rear sub frame, specifically right behind the rear diff? In diagnosing some rear end noise i noticed that a 3-4 in in diameter / 6 inch long shaft behind the rear diff that didn't seem to be attached to anything anymore. I'm trying to figure out what its purpose is and what happened to the pieces that held it in place. It I only crawled under it at this point and just need to know what it should look like. Don't need the rear diff falling out on the road.. lol. Thanks in advance!

Dom.five
10-28-2008, 06:11 PM
Is this shaft in front ( engine side ) or behind the Differential ?

The shaft that connects the pumps is on the engine side. There should be nothing that size behind it, that I can think of.

Dom

MightyTaco
10-28-2008, 06:15 PM
Its behind the diff, part of a mount maybe? From my limited view, it looks like it may have had rubber bushings holding it in place at one point. Ill try to grab a pic of it when i get home from work tonight.

lizzurd
10-28-2008, 07:14 PM
This may help....I beleive the item you are referring to is #44.

http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/hpa_parts_list.php?vin=&Label%5BProductID%5D=ELEMENT&Label%5BYearID%5D=2003&Label%5BDoorID%5D=5&Label%5BGradeID%5D=DX+%284WD%29&Label%5BAreaID%5D=KA&Label%5BTransmissionID%5D=4AT&Label%5BSectionID%5D=CHASSIS&Label%5BIllustrationGroupID%5D=REAR+DIFFERENTIAL+-+MOUNT&ProductID=15&YearID=21&DoorID=3&GradeID=473&AreaID=2&TransmissionID=5&SectionID=6&IllustrationGroupID=11098

paulj
10-28-2008, 07:30 PM
I'm not sure what 44 is. 20 and 21 are 2 halves of brackets that attach the backend of the differential housing to the subframe. 19 is the part that bolts to the subframe. 42 is the bolt that joins them.

MightyTaco
10-29-2008, 05:23 PM
Number 44 is it. That link was just what im looking for! I did get a shot of it with my camera. As soon as i get it hosted ill post it up so you can see. Basically the rubber bushings are so shot, the shaft just lays there. I'm hoping that assembly can be removed easily so new ones can be pressed in. Hard to tell without a lift. Thanks for the help!

accord driver
10-29-2008, 07:50 PM
I have the same issue on my 97 CRV. It doesn't make any noise so I just left it. It's really there for dampening or harmonics..

slimerdogs
10-29-2008, 08:55 PM
If that is what I am thinking its for dampening. Gets rid of those pesky funny noises but not the squeaks, rattles. clunks ect.:)

zinguy
11-10-2008, 03:11 PM
There has been a "clunk" associated with going over a bump for the last few months in our '03 EX. We're due for our 105K service so I checked underneath to see if I could find the problem before we sent it in. Above the middle of the rear "axle" I found a 10" long rubber-coated, metal cylinder (1.5" diam.) with two bumpers on it. It rested at each end in 2" diameter holes. Kind of like this 0──0 It looks as if there were bushings in the holes but they were gone, allowing this heavy chunk of metal to clunk with every bump. I've checked later models and this piece is no longer a part of the suspension. Today, the tech at Honda let me know my "Rear axle vibration dampener(sic)" was broken. Has anyone else had a problem with this critter? Is this why Honda took it out of the design? Thanks for any information

zinguy
11-11-2008, 09:40 AM
Thanks AD. I did find that post, as well as one from BlackPearl03, after more searching yesterday. I second the question: When did Honda eliminate this piece? Also , What is the official name and part # for part 44 on the diagram?
Hopefully, I'll notice the difference later today when I pick up my E from the shop. At least the clunking will be gone and I can stop wondering what I left loose in the spare tire compartment.
Anyone else try my shower setup yet?

mcb
03-17-2011, 06:37 PM
So I have a clunk in the rear of my 2006 Element and at least one source is the Rear Differential Dynamic Damper. Part 44 in the following diagram.

http://www.myhondapartsstore.com/myhonda/jsp/catimgs/14scv01_b2010.png

I took a look under my Element this evening and at present all the rubber links from the frame to the bar in the center are gone and the mass is just rattling around inside the stamped frame. How important is this damper and are there any tips or tricks to changing it out. It appears to be held on with just one bolt that also mounts that rear differential to the chassis. Any advice, guides to replacing it and potential sources for the part cheap would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
mcb

mcb
03-18-2011, 11:18 PM
I will let you know how it turns out. The dealer wants nearly $67 plus tax for it. I think I can order the part from G1 Parts for ~$56 delivered.

Has anyone done business with http://www.g1parts.com?

The real question is am I going to have problems getting that bolt out? :| The bolt goes through the rubber mount for the rear diff and if its like the lower bolts on the rear shocks I change out its going to be a pain in the butt. :x The bolts rust into the bushing in the center of the rubber mount and then even with an impact wrench you can't get them out since the rubber mount sucks up all the torque so you can't break them free from the rust between the bolt and the bushing. I ended up cutting the shock bolts out and I am afraid I will have to do the same for this bolt and there is far less room to get tools into it.

I did find on another forum where someone had simply used RTV to hold it in place. No doubt this would change the stiffness and thus the frequency the damper damps out but at least it would get rid of the clunk. :twisted:

Rambling
mcb

noah
03-21-2011, 02:31 PM
Are sure this is the source of the noise. I just replaced the rubber bushings ($3 each - i got two) for the rear sway bar and it corrected the thumping sound that I had in the right rear. My first thought was the exhaust system, but that was all tight. Then I thought it may be the shock as I had had both of those problems on previous vehicles that made the same noise. While searching for something else on this board, I discovered that a number of others had the same noise and it was corrected by replacing the bushings. While I was under there, I saw the dampener you mention. I took some pictures and was going to post them to ask what the hell does this thing do? Change your bushings and see if the noise goes away. Its very cheap and simple. The bushings are split so you just 'snap' it over the sway bar. There are two bolts holding the bars and bushings in place. My only problem was that one of the bolts (12 mm head) rounded off and then it snapped off. I drilled it out and replaced it with a stainless 5/16th by 1.25". Good luck.
Check here:
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55159&highlight=sway+bar+bushings

NismoGriff
03-23-2011, 11:58 AM
I will agree with Noah on this. I had that same damper go bad, but replacing it did not cure the "thump". It was easy enough to replace and only took about 10 minutes, but in the end it was the swaybar bushings that were causing the noise. These are also an easy replacement. I'm not saying don't replace the damper as I am sure it has a function and takes some abuse which is evident by the fact that they go bad, but I have my doubts that it is the root cause of the noise.

mcb
03-23-2011, 02:36 PM
Thanks guys,

If it stops raining around here I will take a close look at the sway bar bushings too. That looks like an easy job to fix too assuming the rust doesn't become a factor

NismoGriff when you replaced your damper how hard was it to get that bolt out? I see you live here in Norther Ohio also. How bad was the rust issues with getting that bolt out? Is the nut welded to the damper frame or separate?

Thanks
mcb

NismoGriff
03-24-2011, 09:04 AM
Thanks guys,

If it stops raining around here I will take a close look at the sway bar bushings too. That looks like an easy job to fix too assuming the rust doesn't become a factor

NismoGriff when you replaced your damper how hard was it to get that bolt out? I see you live here in Norther Ohio also. How bad was the rust issues with getting that bolt out? Is the nut welded to the damper frame or separate?

Thanks
mcb

If I remember correctly, the nut was welded on and I really don't remember any issues with getting the bolt out or changing it. The swaybar busing bolts concerned me because of their smaller size and rust, but a little slow, steady pressure and they come out ok also.

mrpolice
04-06-2011, 08:41 AM
Get under the rear of your car and "bench press" it up and down a bit - no Im not kidding. As it moves up and down listen for the groan from your sway bar end links. I had a groan / rumble in the rear I couldnt find until someone directed me towards these. They are $11 or so each and take about 1 hour to change both - heres how http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63020

beemerchef
10-04-2011, 11:25 AM
It is cylindrical, not hooked up to anything and the holes it rests through are bigger then the piece. I am sure it then bounces around. I am just curious ans should it be loose or is something missing
Thank you... very much!

http://beemerchef.smugmug.com/photos/i-TRQG9T5/0/M/i-TRQG9T5-M.jpg

http://beemerchef.smugmug.com/photos/i-hfpxwND/0/M/i-hfpxwND-M.jpg

ramblerdan
10-04-2011, 12:16 PM
That part is a vibration damper for the rear differential, and yours is toast. [more (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=916904)]

wickster
10-04-2011, 12:59 PM
maybe i didnt look hard enough, but i didnt see that on my 09 awd??

beemerchef
10-04-2011, 03:24 PM
That part is a vibration damper for the rear differential, and yours is toast. [more (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=916904)]

Why is it toast? I am not finding the answer in the link you posted. Thanks...
The rubber is loose... should it be tight? It cannot be, the diameter of it is smaller than the two rings holding it with some tabs also on the rubber.

ramblerdan
10-04-2011, 03:36 PM
> Why is it toast?
The central cylinder isn't supposed to make contact with the outer ring of the mounting bracket. Yours does, which means the rubber that separates them has degraded to the point where the part no longer does its job. It probably also rattles/klunks when you go over bumps (mine did).


> i didnt see that on my 09 awd
Manual transmissions only, at least according to the 2009 parts listing.

4WD EX AT
http://www.hondapartsnow.com/chassis/b__2010~2009~honda~element~5dr_ex_4wd_navi~5at~ka~ rear~differential~mount.html
http://www.hondapartsnow.com/chassis/b__2010~2009~honda~element~5dr_ex_4wd~5at~ka~rear~ differential~mount.html
Shown in illustration (#17) but absent from the list

4WD EX 2009 MT
http://www.hondapartsnow.com/chassis/b__2010~2009~honda~element~5dr_ex_4wd~5mt~ka~rear~ differential~mount.html
Listed as 50716-S9A-000 (http://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~damper~50716-S9A-000.html).

beemerchef
10-04-2011, 03:45 PM
I am trying hard to understand but it is just not sinking in!!!
Mine is a piece of rubber with two tabs so it will not fall out of the rings, the holder... Someone said it is toast! Was there suppose to be metal around it? I cannot find a photo of this gizmo! I just happen to crawl under the car to check things out...

http://beemerchef.smugmug.com/photos/i-hfpxwND/0/M/i-hfpxwND-M.jpg

http://beemerchef.smugmug.com/photos/i-TRQG9T5/0/M/i-TRQG9T5-M.jpg

and this is in reply in another thread here...

http://beemerchef.smugmug.com/photos/i-nzDDcMn/0/XL/i-nzDDcMn-XL.jpg

Danny at CCM did the 3" lift about 8000 miles ago, would he have noticed if something was wrong? Maybe it is missing metal flanges? 04 by the way...

Thanks...

beemerchef
10-04-2011, 03:49 PM
The central cylinder isn't supposed to make contact with the outer ring of the mounting bracket. Yours does, which means the rubber has degraded to the point where the part no longer does its job. It probably also rattles/klunks when you go over bumps (mine did).

OK, that makes sense. I will see how hard it is to change it... We are in the Desert now! I could also build it up (the rubber) so it does not move!!! Some rubber shims expoxied... I know, it is Mickey Mouse but stuff like that always works on my bike which is barely breaking in with 257K on it!!! Back under the car now... :-)

ramblerdan
10-04-2011, 03:51 PM
A grommet of the correct size would keep it from rattling, but the part wouldn't do its job of damping vibrations. How necessary is it? Hard to say.

ramblerdan
10-04-2011, 03:58 PM
Threads merged.

I think that central cylindrical part is steel, not rubber, but will check with a magnet when I get home.

Edit: Yep, steel.

beemerchef
10-04-2011, 05:32 PM
Threads merged.

I think that central cylindrical part is steel, not rubber, but will check with a magnet when I get home.

Edit: Yep, steel.

How strange! It is rubber here!!! 04 Manual... Can anyone with that year and tranny check?
OK, I understand the use... The cylinder has two nipples that should be facing down to act as dampeners for that bar that goes across. Sorry, I am not a mechanic per say so I don't know the name of that bar...!!! So something at one time was holding that RUBBER cylinder facing down... now it is NOT but I also do not see that bar (cross bar) yet hitting and we do a lot of dirt roads. I will have to go to the Hardware store 65 miles away and get some rubber wedges with some solid glue... something like that!!! To keep it from rotating... Yes?

http://beemerchef.smugmug.com/photos/i-s49bMDp/0/L/i-s49bMDp-L.jpg

beemerchef
10-04-2011, 07:23 PM
Embarrasing!!!
My Dog and I crawled under the car again... and he pointed out that it is "metal"... I appologize for being so adamant about it being rubber... It is however coated with rubber about an inch into the cylinder...
I think some rubber 1/4" round inserted tightly with a bit of good cement with the nipples facing down will do the trick...

thelumpya2
05-09-2012, 07:54 PM
I was digging around under my wife's new to us 04 element tonight and I discovered this. It's loose, about 6 inches or so long, and doesn't seem to be connected to anything. I think it MAY be the source of the strange rattling sound coming from the rear when the car takes jarring bumps.



video

http://youtu.be/Lpa2ucPYU6s

thelumpya2
05-09-2012, 08:15 PM
I was digging around under my wife's new to us 04 element tonight and I discovered this. It's loose, about 6 inches or so long, and doesn't seem to be connected to anything. I think it MAY be the source of the strange rattling sound coming from the rear when the car takes jarring bumps.



video

http://youtu.be/Lpa2ucPYU6s



Thanks to the merged thread, This has helped me confirm my suspicions, that it was in fact a vibration dampener.

So now the question is, can I just take it off and throw it away?

beemerchef
05-09-2012, 08:17 PM
I cut a rubber wedge under it and glued the whole thing! "Gorilla Glue". 20K later it is still holding and there...

Ara and Spirit

Rhinoculips
06-27-2012, 12:48 PM
So I was under my '06 AWD EX-P to replace the rear sway bar bushings that I thought were causing the knocking noise when going over washboard roads. Then I noticed what I believe is a "dampener" that's bolted to the rear differential mount. When moved by hand it makes a knocking noise. So I am guessing this might be my problem and may wait to replace the bushing until needed if this is the case. Please see link for video of it.

-What is it for?
-Is this movement normal?
-Which direction are the tabs supposed to be facing?
-Anyone have a part number for this?

http://youtu.be/1-RTQg0LJQc

Many thanks for your help!

Rhinoculips
07-10-2012, 12:13 PM
I'm about to change out my dampener. Anyone know if there is a torque value for the bolt?

MikeQBF
07-10-2012, 01:05 PM
This is the long 10mm bolt that goes through the mounting bracket, yes? Manual says 28 ft-lbs.

Rhinoculips
07-10-2012, 01:36 PM
Yes that's the bolt. Thank you.

Now I'm having troubles with the rubber in the differential mount twisting as I turn the thru bolt. I don't want to destroy the mounts rubber trying to get the Dampener off. Any tricks to get the rubber free of the bolt?

MikeQBF
07-10-2012, 02:00 PM
Liquid Wrench. And a fair bit of patience. Tapping on the ends of the bolt with a light hammer after letting the Liquid Wrench soak for a while (hour or so) also helps break the bond.

Undercarriage parts like these are prone to rust seizing, so you have to expect it.