I am just curious..
Is it just the extra weight?

If so what is the curb weight of the two models??

OK- looked it up:

2WD: 3540
4WD: 3641

So a 1 mpg penalty for every 200 pounds of gear at around this vehicle weight?
It must vary depending on the number of acceleration cycles and the like eh?

I can see the test question in my nightmares already......
If Honda element element 1 has a rolling friction of 1.2n and a weight of x, how much torque is required to climb a 2 mile long 7 degree grade from stop while accelerating at a rate of .214555 mps.....

Does this mean I have to leave my dog and girlfriend at home?
Maybe pull the drive shaft and differential off during the summer?

Does this mean I have to leave my dog and girlfriend at home?
Maybe pull the drive shaft and differential off during the summer?

Well... It all depends...

New girlfriend... take the girl and leave dog at home

Old Girlfriend... leave her at home and take the dog...

BTW

3641 - 3540 = 101


There should be some drag from the components as well. not only weight. that´s why old 4wd systems used to have manual hub locks.

Drag should not be as much as that.

3641 - 3540 = 101



LOL.....and to think that I have a advanced degree in science :-)

Isn't the extra component drag limited to the extra disk in the tranny?
Doesn't the AWD throw out/in at the gear box on the engine?

Again- just some idle curiosity on whats up on the mpg diff on these two versions...

Edit: reading reading... finding this is all covered on this site of course:

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10295&page=2

Edit: reading reading... finding this is all covered on this site of course:

Yeah. All explained except the girlfriend part...

You can credit that to me... :lol::lol::lol:

The EPA tests each vehicle through a whole set of driving conditions on a lab dynamometers that can be adjusted for resistance to simulate varied road/slope conditions. The test includes a percentage of time with the 4WD engaged, which accounts for the difference in MPG. Wind resistance and weight don't figure into the calculation at all.

The EPA tests each vehicle through a whole set of driving conditions on a lab dynamometers that can be adjusted for resistance to simulate varied road/slope conditions. The test includes a percentage of time with the 4WD engaged, which accounts for the difference in MPG. Wind resistance and weight don't figure into the calculation at all.

Fact?

I would recon that the typical driver sees 0 miles run with 4WD engaged and yet it seems from the forums that the penalty exists for 4WD owners??

Fact?

I would recon that the typical driver sees 0 miles run with 4WD engaged and yet it seems from the forums that the penalty exists for 4WD owners??


Weight and parasitic drag from the added online driveline components will affect fuel mileage.

This document hints at how the EPA runs the tests.

http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/420f06069.htm

Fact?

I would recon that the typical driver sees 0 miles run with 4WD engaged and yet it seems from the forums that the penalty exists for 4WD owners??

In the case of the element, 4wd drivers sees ALL miles with the rear diff driving the oil pump. Even if the pump does not cause the 4wd clutch to engage the rear oil pump is working full time. hence the load. You can get in a diet, lose 100 pounds to compensate for the components´weight, leave the dog AND the Girlfriend at home and drive on dry pavement and you will still be dragging the 4wd. that is the penalty for the 4wd. :002:

This document hints at how the EPA runs the tests.

http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/420f06069.htm

This document details the Federal Test Procedure:
http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-AIR/2006/February/Day-01/a451.pdf
See page 5430 (and 5440 on for the calculations).

The formulas, and the graphs on pp 5432-34 showing the huge variation in the effects of temperature, AC, "aggressive" driving, and operating speeds outside the test ranges, show why the calculated EPA numbers aren't a reliable way to compare different vehicles.