I just had my baby in for the seat rocking fix, and the service manager suggested I get the scheduled maintenance done. The oil had been changed at 3400 when I had the problem of the top radiator hose poping off, that time it was free.

When I picked her up, the bill was $157. They did:
Seat repair-n/c
Oil change, filter, chassie lube, rotate and balance tire, fill fluids, inspect undercarriage, braking and engine management system-$108
Filter-$7
Oil-$9.75
Oil Washer-$0.25
WF fluids(?)-$2.00
4 Wheel weights-$12.00
Environmental charge-$1.50

But I did get a free car wash voucher...

Here's the problem. I like these guys. The SM and the mechanics are all friendly, they're quick, and their waiting room doesn't suck. This is the first time I've had to pay them anything in 3 visits (poped off radiator hose, replacement weatherstriping).

I live on Long Island, where everything costs more. Was this out of line?

When I picked her up, the bill was $157. They did:
Seat repair-n/c
Oil change, filter, chassie lube, rotate and balance tire, fill fluids, inspect undercarriage, braking and engine management system-$108[/quote:e9638d32c6]
Usually oil filter, oil, and oil washer are included in the price of an oil change at most quick lube type shops (unless you get synthetics, etc.)

There is nothing to lube on the chassis, as all parts on the Honda are sealed

You can check all fluids except tranny by glancing under the hood, they're all visible since the reservoirs are clear/opaque, tranny fluid takes a minute to pull and check dipstick.

I bet they didn't have to add a drop to any of those fluids at 8500 miles

Tires shouldn't need to be balanced, but that's a nice touch.

Inspecting the undercarriage and brakes is good, not too hard just look at the pads when rotating the tires, look for signs of leakage, or frayed wires, or any loose parts underneath.

Inspect Engine management control, probably means they made sure the check engine light did not stay on when they started the car.

[quote]
Filter-$7
Oil-$9.75
Oil Washer-$0.25
Should be included in price of oil change

WF fluids(?)-$2.00
4 Wheel weights-$12.00

Don't know what WF fluid is, but wheel wheights are usually included in the price of balancing at most tire shops

Environmental charge-$1.50

I can leave the old oil at the curb or take to local auot parts store for free recycling

I love on Long Island, where everything costs more. Was this out of line?

This is probably not too far aff from what other dealers charge, but is still a ripoff IMO, opinion, unless they really spent 1.5 hours ($72/hr labor)doing all the inspections, etc. I don't know how it could take that long, though.

Always ask and authorize their charges up front that way there are no surprises. While away from home had xJag up on mechanics hoist and their grease gun was hanging about ten feet away. It had four grease nipples on the rear driveline. I asked him if he could shoot some grease since it was about due. Figured they would do it for free since they were nailing me $1000 to replace fuel pump. On bill charged me 1/2 hour labor $38 for four pumps of grease and I guessing 15 seconds of time. I do most my own mechanic work and still get nailed when I let my guard down.

I know many people prefer taking their car to a dealer to get serviced but you should really check out local shops like Valvoline Instant Oil Change to get services done. The price, 157, is totally out of line in my opinion. Except for warranty and brake work, my shop and over 700 just like it, do all maintenance checks, oil filter replacement and up to five quarts for about 31 dollars, bottom line. Synthetics are more, but never more than $60. Why were they balancing the tires at 8500 miles?

I received a free offer for oil change at 10,000 miles, from the dealer (Norm Reeves Honda of Huntington Beach) where I bought my E. I'm surprized you did not get one "free" maintenance service letter also.

WOW I hope they at least gave you some vasoline to go with that bend over job, maybe even a reach around :shock: yikes :twisted: I'd find another dealer to go to fast,,,,, same service here in Hawaii cost $95

Of course they are very nice, all con men are! They ripped you off. Most car dealers are competitive with the $30 oil change centers these days (I have yet to change oil, so don't know what the local Honda guys want), so your charge was way over the norm. And all those extra charges REEK of rip-off.

Plus: They shouldn't have changed your break-in oil at 3,400! 5,000 minimum!

WF should be windshield fluid.

:twisted: HINT TO ALL :twisted:

For the last 10 years I use a small Business card to get any vehicle work done correctly and cheap.
It's a very dirty way but it works, because no business wants these folks in their face.
All you have to do is contact or go in and get yourself a business card from someone at the BETTER Business Bureau. Place that card on the dash or a place where the service manager or mechanic can see it. Wham service with a smile.
PS... print on the bottom of card. Please call me immediately if you have any problems with this dealership.
I know, that is rotten but it has worked. It's the card that keeps on giving!

:shock: Slug

wow.. with my dealer all those types of maintance item are covered.. free! I would say you got taken!

I haven't had to get anything serviced yet. However, the dealership did give me free oil changes for 5 years. I had the first one done last week. The sticker they put on the window has the next one due in 3000 miles. That's sooner than Honda requires, isn't it? Aren't they every 5000 miles according to the manual? As long as they aren't charging me, I can get them done more often!

In fact, even though the dealership is about 40 minutes away, they say they will come to where I work & pick up the Element. They will take it back to the dealer for the oil change. Then they will return it to my work when they are done.

I haven't taken them up on that offer, because sometimes I need my vehicle during the day, so I will just the oil changes done after work.

same here, the oil changes are covered for the first 5 years and they will pick up and deliver etc.. and more then just oil changes they have more included too.. but i have not needed service yet..

on the honda owners link.. they have the scheduled maintenance on there, and they have 2 categories normal and severe.. so if you are severe conditions your care is different..

10K for first oil change!! 6k if you are in severe weather conditions..

https://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/login.asp?brand=honda
here are the severe conditions:
Severe
Follow the "severe" schedule only if you drive in one or more of these conditions most of the time:

Trips of less than 5 miles (less than 10 in freezing weather)
Extremely hot weather (over 90 degrees F)
Extensive idling or stop-and-go driving
Trailer towing, car-top carrier, or mountain driving
Muddy, dusty, or de-iced roads

Normal
The "normal" schedule is fine for most drivers, even if they occasionally drive in severe conditions.

10,000 mi/16,000 km/1 yr
Replace engine oil.
Rotate tires
20,000 mi/32,000 km/1 yr
Replace engine oil.
Rotate tires (follow pattern on page 252 of your owner's manual).
Replace engine oil filter.
Inspect front and rear brakes.
Check parking brake adjustment.
Inspect tie rod ends, steering gear box and boots.
Inspect suspension components.
Inspect driveshaft boots.
Inspect brake hoses and lines (including ABS).
Check all fluid levels, condition of fluids, and check for leaks.
#Inspect exhaust system.
#Inspect fuel lines and connections.
30,000 mi/48,000 km
Replace air cleaner element every 30,000 mi/48,000 km (independent of time).
Replace engine oil.
Rotate tires (follow pattern on page 252 of your owner's manual).
Inspect and adjust drive belt.
Replace dust and pollen filter.
the list continues in 10K increments..

[quote:d5e3a45e03=" "]10K for first oil change!! 6k if you are in severe weather conditions..[/quote:d5e3a45e03]

I think it's "severe conditions" not "severe weather conditions"...

:)

-brendan

You seem to be an E guru so I am gonna ask your opinion please,
should i really wait until 10m miles before my 1st oil change?
Did you wait that long, do you even have 10m yet?

J

Brendan the severe conditions do apply to more then just weather, due to road type, hauling items, etc.. so it is not just to weather.

BoxTurtle:I know you were asking Brendan.. but when we chose to get our Element, and were told 10K for miles before first oil change we did inquire if that was realistic.. and due to how they have put the E together and the improvements on Honda's have allowed for much more time between oil changes..

So, yes, you can go 10K if you drive under normal conditions.. if you do alot of harsh driving, hauling etc, go with 6K.. but no need for 3K or 5K oil changes.. good luck!

[quote:e8bbee30ac=" "]You seem to be an E guru so I am gonna ask your opinion please,
should i really wait until 10m miles before my 1st oil change?
Did you wait that long, do you even have 10m yet?

J[/quote:e8bbee30ac]

Does 10m miles mean 10 million miles? No, you shouldn't wait that long. :)

Seriously, though: look at the recommended maintenance schedule in your owner's manual. It's either 5000/6000 or 10000 miles, depending on what kind of driving you do, under what conditions.

Since 75% of my driving so far has been very very short trips, I'm placing my E into the "Severe Conditions" schedule, which means getting an oil change early...at 5000 miles.

Don't change it before then, as per Honda's instructions here:

http://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/Maintenance/maint_faqs.asp

specifically:

http://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/Maintenance/maint_faqs.asp#oilfirst

-brendan

PS - for reference, the maint sched(s):

http://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/Maintenance/maint_schedule.asp?sch=s&mi=600&box=a

Thanks GYPSYTDA, and Brendan great info and very informative!

This site rocks!

J

The m stands for mill, in printers terms that = thousand, sorry.

Paul Brand, a Twin Cities area radio broadcaster (Auto Talk, on the weekends), recommends this service for all vehicles, no matter what the manual says. I'm not taking it as gospel, just posting it for discussion:

So the first major step in deciding what maintenance is necessary, and when, is to follow the severe service maintenance recommendations.
With that said, let's go down your list.
• Engine oil and filter: Change every 3,000-4,000 miles.
• Chassis/steering/suspension inspection/lubrication: At each oil change, if vehicle is equipped with grease fittings.
• Transmission fluid and filter: Complete flush/fluid change every 30,000 miles. Filter change at first fluid change, then every other change.
• Cooling system flush and fill: Every 30,000 miles, regardless of type of antifreeze.
• Transfer case/differential/manual transmission: Change fluid every 30,000 miles.
• Spark plugs/tune-up/engine performance check: Standard plugs every 30,000 miles, platinum plugs every 60,000-75,000 miles. Install plugs with anti-seize on threads.
• Oxygen sensor: Follow carmaker's recommended interval, or every 75,000-100,000 miles.
• Air filter and PCV filter: Change once each year, more often if vehicle is operated on dirt roads.
• Fuel filter: Every 30,000 miles.
• Serpentine belt: Change when there are more than three cracks per inch across drive surface of belt, or at 75,000 miles.
• Radiator cap, thermostat and hoses: Change at every second or third cooling system service, which is 60,000-90,000 miles.
• Battery cables and connections: Disassemble and clean once per year.
• Windshield wipers: Install new refills once per year.
• Brake fluid: Bleed and flush every two years.
• Power steering system: Flush and fill every 50,000-60,000 miles.
• Engine oil flush: Never; frequent oil changes will keep engine clean.
• Fuel injection cleaning: Never, unless there's symptom of a fouled injector. Instead, add fuel system cleaner three or four times per year.
• Tire rotation: Every other oil change, 6,000-8,000 miles.
• Tire rebalance: Never, unless there's symptom of a problem.
• Alignment: Never, unless there's symptom of a problem.
• Rear brake adjustment (drum brakes only): Inspect and manually adjust at each tire rotation.
Front disc brakes: Inspect at each tire rotation; replace as needed.
• Door/window rubber gaskets: Spray/wipe with silicone aerosol twice per year.
• Door/hood/trunk hinges/latches: Spray-lube twice per year.
• Air conditioning condenser/radiator: Clear debris from in front and between twice per year.
• Cabin air filter, if equipped: Replace once per year.
• Wash vehicle, including underside, wheelwells, bottom of doors: Twice per month in winter, often as possible summer.
Well, there you have it. This is my "Brand" of maintenance! Are some of the maintenance items or intervals overkill? Absolutely, but better safe than sorry. Have I forgotten or left out any that may pertain to your vehicle? Probably.
My maintenance schedule is the evolution of trying to own and operate vehicles for 100,000-150,000 miles in Minnesota. I've learned the hard way that skimping on maintenance tends to be more expensive in the long run.
And that's what we're all shooting for here: the long run. Consider my maintenance schedule as a guideline or suggestion. Remember, the single most important part of owning a motor vehicle is this axiom: You and you alone are responsible for every aspect of that vehicle. Does my maintenance schedule "work"? All I can say is that in all those years I've never had major component failure from lack of maintenance, and I've had darn few failures of any kind.
To me, it's worth the extra cost and effort. But since it's your vehicle, you make the decision.

Tire rebalance: Never, unless there's symptom of a problem.
Alignment: Never, unless there's symptom of a problem.


He must own stock in Goodyear, because these two recommendations will cost you dearly at the tire shop. By the time you "notice" an unbalanced tire or an alignment issue you will be out of two or more tires. Tire damage can happen very quickly. Every time those tires come off for a rotation they should be balanced, and an alignment should be checked every 30K and every time you get new tires.

Never re-balanced a tire on any of my cars over the last 14 years, never had any uneven tire wear or damage. Not usually neccesary IMOP. Just got some BIG tires on my Land Cruiser with free lifetime balance, I may use it as the bigger the tire, the more weight and more chance of being unbalanced. Don't have plans to rebalance the POS goodyears on the Element.

[quote:4e33e6badc=" "]Never re-balanced a tire on any of my cars over the last 14 years, never had any uneven tire wear or damage. Not usually neccesary IMOP. Just got some BIG tires on my Land Cruiser with free lifetime balance, I may use it as the bigger the tire, the more weight and more chance of being unbalanced. Don't have plans to rebalance the POS goodyears on the Element.[/quote:4e33e6badc]

First, I agree that I will never balance the OE Goodyears -- they can't be gone soon enough. But I must say that by the time my wife noticed a "slight pull" in the Mazda I ended up buying two new tires. What was so upseting was that the tires on there had only about 20K on them, but the alignment went (she may have bumped a curb, who knows) and now I'm out $200 for new tires and an alignment.

The good thing these days is all the places that offer lifetime balancing when you buy new tires. It only adds about 15 minutes to a tire rotation.