It will take casting off civility and raising h**l! Oh what's his name(ceo) and his minions are adept at dissembling, e.g., to let pass unnoticed; ignore; conceal the real nature of. That's part of their MO. These guys are tough to deal with and will take action only if (1) such action benefits Honda. Or (2) such action is necessary to counter bad publicity that has reached a threshold level.

So it's number (2) But it's an exhausting and time consuming enterprise. And a person/persons must take action soon. And it will be discouraging to read Honda being given a pass by some E owners! Like: "Maybe you shoulda bought a Volvo." But tough tactics can work. Threaten class action suits; use the media; do a little rumbling at an auto show; contact your states attorney general. In MN we gotta a guy who loves this stuff; etc..

It worked for me. I owned a combine that had a critical defect-a vital part was put in backwards which caused premature bearing failure. Same deal-they stonewalled and ignored me until I had had enough. What really got 'em was I threatened to spread the word via meetings, coffee chats, canvassing the farm community, and appearing on farm talk shows. Of course I had documentation like bills, expert opinions, and the names and dates of company contacts. Fortunately, the episode occurred in the winter when I had the time to keep badgering them. But I guess I "should have really bot a ----------!"

Oooo... Good idea to contact the state Atty General Office in your state. In MN we are lucky enough to have Mike Hatch, who seems to relish cases like this (to protect the people of the state always looks good to someone with political aspirations!). He's straight up in Microsoft's face right now.

If (I should say when) I get to experience "the windshield issue", I know who I am calling first.

Has anyone tried to get their insurance company to go to bat for them? Wouldn't the insurance adjuster's opinion that a rock could not have caused the crack carry more weight than that of an owner?

paulj

Yes, Hatch does relish the exposure and I don't think it would take much persuading for him to butt heads with Honda. Win or lose, love/hate him, he is expert at manipulating the media. If we become club members we will team up and hippity hop down to the state capital.

I don't think the E battery will survive many Mn winters. Yesterday we were driving open hwy with the wind gusting to 35+ mph and my wife had to slow to about 40 mph. I think if there had been black ice we would have been blown in the ditch. As CE said, "a man has to know his limitations." Driving the E is fun and has been care free. May it continue.

Luckily, I haven't had the windshield crack but have read so much about it that I spoke to a windshield installer.( I had to have the windshield replaced after 2 months due to a faulty seal.)he told me if it should happpen to get a pen or any pointed object and run it down the crack. If it had been hit by a stone it will stop at the point of impact. if it does not then it would more likely be a spontaneous crack. thought this could help in your argument with the dealership. good luck.

Some complainers think this pen test is a dealer scam to get avoid paying for something that is Honda's fault. It appears that this glass test is common in the industry.

paulj

[quote:96663057ca=" "]Some complainers think this pen test is a dealer scam to get avoid paying for something that is Honda's fault. It appears that this glass test is common in the industry.

paulj[/quote:96663057ca]

Uh, oh... somebody pushed my button!! ;)

I for one DO think that the renowned "Pen Test" is a bunch of crap that dealers use to avoid paying for a windshield. I also think that the factory glass that is put into the Honda Element is defective. I am not an engineer, nor do I have proof. But I am the "victim" of the cracked windshield issue. Mine cracked before i even had the luxury of bringing my brand new "E" home! Yes, most of you know my story... I got hit by a rock (yes, I got hit by a rock... let me finish) during my test drive of all things! My salesman was in the vehicle with me when the rock struck my windshield underneath the passenger side windshield wiper (as it so happens, where MOST rocks strike!), and made such a noise that both the salesman and I were surprised that there was "NO" impact crater (or so I thought, since the chip was concealled)!! Man, that impact was loud!!! Since I did not see a bull chip on my windshield I didn't even think to inspect the windshield of my "E" before signing on the dotted line upon returning to the dealership. On my way home (not even 5 miles down the road!) I gasped in horror as I saw my windshield INSTANTLY crack before my eyes! Instantly I say... as I recall, the crack had spread over 10 inches in less than 10 minutes!

My story ended MUCH better than most... I had just figured that my windshield crack was just a matter of bad luck, and not having heard the countless other stories about cracked windshields I hadn't given it another thought (though I was PISSED as HELL!). However, upon picking up my license plates about 1 week later my salesman noticed the cracked windshield. He admitted that he had remembered hearing the impact during the test drive, and as a result he (eventually) agreed to replace my 1st windshield free of charge, calling the crack "lot damage", since technically the rock had struck before I had signed my purchase contract. I consider myself very, VERY lucky that my windshield was replaced without any out of pocket cost to me!! But what if my dealership hadn't been so responsive? I know for a fact that all dealerships are NOT created equal!!

My new windshield, manufactured by PILKENSON has not encountered any problems, but then again I drive VERY FEW miles and avoid the freeway whenever possible! This is no way to live, let me tell you! I have NEVER worried about rock strikes as much as I do with my "E"... EVER! Sure, I have been hit by MANY a rock while driving on the freeway... MOST, if not ALL rock chips can be filled (if done within a couple of days) without causing a cracked windshield! Even my FORD Escort had 3 rock chips in the windshield!! One crack did develop, but over a period of MONTHS, not MINUTES!!

The old saying goes, "knowledge is power"... I have read dozens and dozens of stories similar to mine (not to mention the TSB issue of 2003, which I am not referring to at all!). Having been through this experience, I can empathize with all of you that have had cracked windhields. Having witnessed my original windshield being replaced first hand (see my link below for photos of the swap), I have seen how truly brittle and fragile the factory windshield is! When the glass installer was removing the glass, it cracked from top to bottom in less than a second! And he was barely even pressing on the glass, near as I could tell!! NO, I believe that HONDA needs to (nay, MUST) step up to the plate and take action to solve this problem! I certainly hope that the 2005 model is better!


Pictures: http://homepage.mac.com/jasonraynow/PhotoAlbum3.html

Continued...

Continued (long winded LEGO)...

And before any of you naysayers start spewing crap out your mouth about "ALL vehicles have windshield cracks", consider WHICH vehicles have cracks most prevalently... I see Hyundai (All), Chevrolet (vans and pickups) and Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth (Caravan/Voyager/Crap-piles) winning the contest. It seems to me that I bought a HONDA because I truly believed the hype that HONDA was above those aforementioned (for that matter, ALL of the "Big 3", what the hell!!)... What gives, HONDA?? Get your act together before you lose market share, or most importantly your GOOD REPUTATION!!

(LEGO has no opinion on this subject) ;)

One more thing...

I watched on the Discovery Wings channel how aircraft designers have engineered their airplane windshields to withstand the impact of a bird that would normally break through the glass and likely cause an accident.... The glass manufacturer (Pilkenson, as I recall) was able to design the windshield glass as such that it deflected the impact of the bird and did NOT crack!! So don't tell me that the angle of the Element windshield is the cause for all windshield cracks, and that there is no way to prevent them... if an aircraft travelling well over 300 MPH can withstand the impact of a bird (with a VERY similar windhield rake angle, near as I could tell), then so can HONDA design a windshield that actually works!!

(OK, I've gone 1 week without beer... lemme pop back a few and maybe I'll calm down a bit!) :)

LEGO

I just bought the E and told my sale men about the stress crack and he wrote on my bill of sales that if there was a crack they will will replace it for free .

I just bought the E and told my sale men about the stress crack and he wrote on my bill of sales that if there was a crack they will will replace it for free .

That's good Justin, but how many times will they replace it for FREE given that there's some kind of defect. No one knows for certain if it is the windsheild design, material, frame or combo of all.

Honda won't acknowledge this defect but has issued a TSB for the 03's. Mine's an 04 and I'm just waiting for the crack to show up and the resultant song and dance I'll get trying to get it repaired.

Thx,
Phil

Mine took a loud, pea-sized direct gravel hit today, and I cringed like hell! It left a dirt mark, but when I stopped and inspected it, there was nothing there but a "smudge" that wiped off. So far, my self-repaired star crack from last spring hasn't grown, and I've suffered more than one hit like today's since then. I'm holding my breath, but I'm not gonna hold it so long that I faint or pass out. It must seem as odd to others as it does to me, that hownowcb, the eternal pessimist, can be such an optimist when it comes to these windshield issues. :shock:

Mine took a loud, pea-sized direct gravel hit today, and I cringed like hell! It left a dirt mark, but when I stopped and inspected it, there was nothing there but a "smudge" that wiped off. So far, my self-repaired star crack from last spring hasn't grown, and I've suffered more than one hit like today's since then. I'm holding my breath, but I'm not gonna hold it so long that I faint or pass out. It must seem as odd to others as it does to me, that hownowcb, the eternal pessimist, can be such an optimist when it comes to these windshield issues. :shock:

Hey, Colin!

That is VERY great news indeed! So maybe the sky isn't falling for all of us? :) A while back Kayakin' Dan mentioned his "E" got struck by a rock (and he claims he thought of LEGO instantly...awww!), but no crack. I've not heard an update from him yet... hint, hint Dan...

Please keep us posted and be sure to watch the location that was struck, especially over the winter with all the freeze-thaws. Good luck!! :)

LEGO

Hey, Colin!

That is VERY great news indeed! So maybe the sky isn't falling for all of us? :) A while back Kayakin' Dan mentioned his "E" got struck by a rock (and he claims he thought of LEGO instantly...awww!), but no crack. I've not heard an update from him yet... hint, hint Dan...

Please keep us posted and be sure to watch the location that was struck, especially over the winter with all the freeze-thaws. Good luck!! :)

LEGO
Hey! 2003 SSM DX well within the TSB range and zero crackage! Still! But it will be paid for in 6 months and the warranty is going to expire in a few weeks, so I'm sure it'll crack any day now!

Don't count on it, Dan! Mine will barely be paid-for in my meager lifetime, but I'll bet my windshield will eventually crack beyond self-repair some day! I can only hope it's the day after I upgrade my insurance coverage! Like yours, Dan, mine was built just past the range of the TSB, but in spite of the effect the sounds of impacts on my windshield have on my psyche, my good ole Element is hanging in there! :twisted: :shock:

Cool beans!! 8)