I've owned my 2004 EX for about 31/2 weeks now and I'm noticing that the brakes are soft. In stop-and-go traffic they will eventually bottom out, same thing while holding the car on a downward hill. Took the car to the dealer, they claimed it was the master cylinder, which they allegedly replaced. Picked the car up, same problem. Brought the car back,service guy says thats normal. Now in all the years I've owned cars, that was never normal, something was always wrong when the pedal went to the floor, master cylinder , air in the system ,leak in a wheel cylinder/caliper. Am I wrong, is this the new style braking system?

I've now owned my Element for 2.5 months, have 4,500 miles on and the brakes are as solid as the day I drove it home.

If this dealer won't look at the Element, bring it to another dealer that will. If you don't have a dealer near you, contact American Honda and explain to them that your brakes are failing and this is a very serious safety issue. Explain that your local Honda Dealer says this is perfectly normal, even though they have replaced the master cylinder once already. See if they will agree to pay for a private mechanic to make the repair. Then bring it somewhere to get this taken care of.

I take it you don't see any fluid near any of the 4 wheels? Nothing leaking from under the engine? Did you check the fluid level of the master cylinder?

Good luck and let us know what happens.

Larry, Thanks for the reply. No leaking fluid shows up anywhere. Bought the car from Honda City on Hempstead TPKE. Hicksville/Levittown.

[quote:81bfc453de=" "]Larry, Thanks for the reply. No leaking fluid shows up anywhere. Bought the car from Honda City on Hempstead TPKE. Hicksville/Levittown.[/quote:81bfc453de]

That was one of the dealers that pissed me off to no end while shopping for mine. I decided to use Huntingotn Honda for service even though I live in Long Beach. My office is up in Melville so it is convenient for me.

If Honda City won't repair it for you, then go to Valley Stream or West Babylon or Huntington or Hempstead... all Honda Dealers. Any of which will gladly accept your business. Of all of them I would recommend Huntington. I have been to all of the Honda Dealers on Long Isand and Huntington has an awesome service department. Hell the waiting room has a 42" plasma on the wall while waiting for your car!

Good luck.

Could be your brake booster failing. With the engine off, pump the brake pedal a few times. It should become harder and harder to pump the brake pedal until it finally will not go down at all unless you stand on the pedal (Unless you have high leg strength). Now start the car, and do this. With the engine running, the pedal should always feel the same.

Also, brake fluid for the most is hydroscopic (I think that's the word) which means that it absorbs water. Well, as you know, water does not compress well (Hydro-locked motor anybody?) and when the brake fluid gets watered down, your brakes begin to not work as well.

However, when the pedal begins to fall to the floor, your booster most likely is bad, not the master cylinder. Your brakes will still work, but the "power" portion is gone. It takes a lot of leg strength to stop a 3,000 lbs. vehicle, trust me. Power brakes are a great thing.

Went to the dealer today to pick up the car, got my copy of the service ticket which stated that the service manager and two techs checked the brake system and found nothing wrong. So I'd made up my mind to take it to another dealer on Monday. I've had this car in there previously to get the passive portion of the alarm system disabled and supposedly this was done. Well apparently they enabled it again, so the car now locks and arms itself again. Now I'm pissed and I ask for a manager(no one in the service dept.- it's Sunday). So I tell the Mgr. about the alarm, he asks what I originally brought the car in for and I explain about the brakes. He says lets see. Start the car, brake pedal goes to the floor even easier than before. He asks if I'm sure I want to drive the car,seems like the brakes in this condition might be a safety issue(yuh think!). So I left the car, Mgr put his name on service ticket. We'll see what Monday brings.

[quote:38abb073ce=" "]Went to the dealer today to pick up the car, got my copy of the service ticket which stated that the service manager and two techs checked the brake system and found nothing wrong. So I'd made up my mind to take it to another dealer on Monday. I've had this car in there previously to get the passive portion of the alarm system disabled and supposedly this was done. Well apparently they enabled it again, so the car now locks and arms itself again. Now I'm pissed and I ask for a manager(no one in the service dept.- it's Sunday). So I tell the Mgr. about the alarm, he asks what I originally brought the car in for and I explain about the brakes. He says lets see. Start the car, brake pedal goes to the floor even easier than before. He asks if I'm sure I want to drive the car,seems like the brakes in this condition might be a safety issue(yuh think!). So I left the car, Mgr put his name on service ticket. We'll see what Monday brings.[/quote:38abb073ce]
Are dealers dumb enough to not know a bad brake booster when they see it? That's just ridiculous. I thought Honda's dealers were supposed to be helpful. The one here in Austin sure is.

[quote:8c83093d78=" "][quote:8c83093d78=" "]Start the car, brake pedal goes to the floor even easier than before. He asks if I'm sure I want to drive the car,seems like the brakes in this condition might be a safety issue(yuh think!).[/quote:8c83093d78]
Are dealers dumb enough to not know a bad brake booster when they see it? That's just ridiculous. I thought Honda's dealers were supposed to be helpful. The one here in Austin sure is.[/quote:8c83093d78]

For what it's worth, every time I start up the car and pull out of my spot (using a few back and forths, due to the small lot) the brakes are initially very very soft.

I'm not saying you don't have a problem at all, but my experience is that you shouldn't take a brake press right after starting the car as indicative of the problem, necessarily.

In any case, I hope they get to the bottom of it.

-brendan

Brendan, unless yours is also going bad? I don't have any issues with a soft brake pedal when first starting the Element in the morning or at any times throughout the day.

opps. hit submit instead of preview
:oops:

pls see below

[quote="
For what it's worth, every time I start up the car and pull out of my spot (using a few back and forths, due to the small lot) the brakes are initially very very soft.
I'm not saying you don't have a problem at all, but my experience is that you shouldn't take a brake press right after starting the car as indicative of the problem, necessarily.[/quote]

That definetly sounds like a problem. The E has 4 wheel disk brakes with ABS - you should 'never' have a "soft pedal" when you apply the brakes :!:
If the engine is running, and proper pressure is maintained (everything working as it should), you should always have a firm pedal.
The only exception to this, is if you are sitting with your foot on the brakes for a longer than normal time. The brake system will automatically equalize the pressure, 'relax' the ABS, and it will feel like it gets a bit softer. But it should reset itself as soon as you take your foot off the brakes.
Check the manual for a fuller explaination, but I would be taking it into a reputable dealer to get it fixed.

[quote:d5d450ff91=" "]Brendan, unless yours is also going bad? I don't have any issues with a soft brake pedal when first starting the Element in the morning or at any times throughout the day.[/quote:d5d450ff91]

Huh. It's been that way since around the time I bought it...I noticed it then and assumed that while the car was off, the hydraulic pressure in the power brakes was relaxed, and was only repressurized in the few seconds after starting the car...

It's never an issue at any other point in the drive, except for during those first few seconds after the engine is started and I put it in drive.

I guess if I have any problems other than what I've reported so far, I'll take it in. In the mean time, I'll be sure to avoid blocking access to the E-brake. :)

[note that this is an EX, and therefore with ABS, not sure if that matters]

-brendan

[quote:4d0c650038=" "]The only exception to this, is if you are sitting with your foot on the brakes for a longer than normal time. The brake system will automatically equalize the pressure, 'relax' the ABS, and it will feel like it gets a bit softer. But it should reset itself as soon as you take your foot off the brakes.
Check the manual for a fuller explaination, but I would be taking it into a reputable dealer to get it fixed.[/quote:4d0c650038]

Hmm, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what I'm doing, as I tend to do this:

1) get in car
2) put foot on brake
3) start the engine
4) put on belt
5) pull empeg out of bag
6) push into dash opening
7) wait for boot up
8) select playlist or CD
9) adjust volume
10) put car in Drive
11) let go of brake
12) while turning wheel: drive 3-4 feet
13) push brake <- here it is a bit soft
14) while turning wheel other way: reverse 3-4 feet
15) push brake <- here it is not noticably soft
16) while turning wheel original way: drive out of parking lot

No problems with brakes after that, that I can tell.

-brendan[/b]

[quote:11fd75c1c2=" "][quote:11fd75c1c2=" "]Larry, Thanks for the reply. No leaking fluid shows up anywhere. Bought the car from Honda City on Hempstead TPKE. Hicksville/Levittown.[/quote:11fd75c1c2]

That was one of the dealers that pissed me off to no end while shopping for mine. I decided to use Huntingotn Honda for service even though I live in Long Beach. My office is up in Melville so it is convenient for me.

If Honda City won't repair it for you, then go to Valley Stream or West Babylon or Huntington or Hempstead... all Honda Dealers. Any of which will gladly accept your business. Of all of them I would recommend Huntington. I have been to all of the Honda Dealers on Long Isand and Huntington has an awesome service department. Hell the waiting room has a 42" plasma on the wall while waiting for your car!

Good luck.[/quote:11fd75c1c2]

Ahhh I bought my Honda from Huntington Honda and I have to tell you They can keep the plasma screen tv... I think they leave a lot to be desired in their service. I have a whole adventure dealing with them...
The list is endless... but I think the funniest is the first oil change they didn't put in one of those windshield reminder things and I complained the next service... They put one in... but they put the mileage in as only 1000 miles later!!! They can't get anything straight!
I am going to try Babylon Honda next... If not I see there is one in Islip I may risk if Babylon doesn't work out...


Keep on E'in

---
MW

[quote:79213f0543=" "]I've owned my 2004 EX for about 31/2 weeks now and I'm noticing that the brakes are soft. In stop-and-go traffic they will eventually bottom out, same thing while holding the car on a downward hill. Took the car to the dealer, they claimed it was the master cylinder, which they allegedly replaced. Picked the car up, same problem. Brought the car back,service guy says thats normal. Now in all the years I've owned cars, that was never normal, something was always wrong when the pedal went to the floor, master cylinder , air in the system ,leak in a wheel cylinder/caliper. Am I wrong, is this the new style braking system?[/quote:79213f0543]

I've had my 04 EX for 5 weeks/1000 miles now and the brakes are still as responsive as the day I bought it. In fact they feel more competent than those in my wife's 04 CR-V (2 weeks/600 miles). The 91 Miata we traded for the CR-V had 72K miles and the only thing we replaced (twice) was the external driver's side turn signal light.

This post scared me because the 96 Chrysler Cirrus I traded had to have the brakes overhauled at 32K and then 9 months later the master cylinder went during my way home in a snowstorm.

Hopefully this brake problem is an isolated case. Too bad it's isolated to you. Wishing you all the best.

Need some helps with the soft brake issue. I have a 2003 DX stick shift. I had the car a week and got in an accident. After the car was repaired, took to Honda because the brakes were not responding. They replaced the master cylinder and rear cylipers. The accident was a low speed front end collision, nothing to do with the rear of the car. Took the car back to Honda because the brake pedal goes to the floor after hitting it 3 or 4 times. The pedal will hold for about 10 seconds and then the pedal goes slowly to the floor. Have taken it into Honda now 2 times and they say this is ok. The pedal will hold on surface streets because the pedal is used only 1-2 times to stop. In freeway traffic, the pedal does not hold after repeated use. We showed the Honda dealer that the pedal goes to the floor and they say that's ok. Now, there is a second accident again low speed, front end collision, and the car has gone back to Honda to check the brakes again and they say the brake pedal going to the floor is ok. There is something wrong with the brake system, but Honda keeps saying everything is fine. The pedal going to the floor is not right. Any suggestions? The car is an accident waiting to happen!!

Need some helps with the soft brake issue. I have a 2003 DX stick shift. I had the car a week and got in an accident. After the car was repaired, took to Honda because the brakes were not responding. They replaced the master cylinder and rear cylipers. The accident was a low speed front end collision, nothing to do with the rear of the car. Took the car back to Honda because the brake pedal goes to the floor after hitting it 3 or 4 times. The pedal will hold for about 10 seconds and then the pedal goes slowly to the floor. Have taken it into Honda now 2 times and they say this is ok. The pedal will hold on surface streets because the pedal is used only 1-2 times to stop. In freeway traffic, the pedal does not hold after repeated use. We showed the Honda dealer that the pedal goes to the floor and they say that's ok. Now, there is a second accident again low speed, front end collision, and the car has gone back to Honda to check the brakes again and they say the brake pedal going to the floor is ok. There is something wrong with the brake system, but Honda keeps saying everything is fine. The pedal going to the floor is not right. Any suggestions? The car is an accident waiting to happen!!

Call Honda corporate immediately
Tell them that your thinking of seeking a lawyer due to the 2nd accident after your nuemrsou attempts for the braking system to be dealt with
they will hop to it