Too bad we are not Europe, they get a diesel 34 mpg highway. And the interior is not so bad.

Diesel economies are always being tooted as so marvelous by the other members (not mentioning that they're usually quoting EUROPEAN models that can't meet clean air regulations in the US) but really now! The cost of gas today was $3.25 a gallon here in northern Indiana and diesel was $3.85.

A 30mpg diesel Element would cost EXACTLY THE SAME per mile as the E I'm driving right now. Even if prices came down on diesel (ain't gonna happen) then the slight change in economy wouldn't pay for the engine - and if the engines DID meet the clean air standards, then the savings would still be nill. The bottom line is that this thread isn't about miles-per-gallon, it's about miles-per-dollar.

Very good point on fuel economy and cost per mile!

I think you are still missing an aspect of the diesel engine that many people who ask for a diesel E want and that is an an engine with grunt. A diesel delivers power in a completely different way than standard gas engines. Low end muscle would be fun in this little box and help out the towing!

Correct me if I am wrong, but dont EU countries have very stringent vehicle emission standards? Also, dont diesel engines last longer?

Correct me if I am wrong, but dont EU countries have very stringent vehicle emission standards? Also, dont diesel engines last longer?

I confess, after seeing your post, I went and got the actual standards to paste in here... but then when I started doing the math to convert all of the numbers between metric and English and hybrid metric/English values, I found them such a mush of different measuring systems that my poor tired brain decided to simply post a

HUH?

I am tired...

BTW, this thread is NOT about power curves and longevity. It's about the dollars-per-mile question. Also, it's worth mentioning that the English use the metric system and the US uses the English system... except when they mix metric and English units of measurement together. sheesh!

This gasoline vs. diesel price thing comes and goes. Wasn't it this time last year that gas was more expensive in most markets?

One of the variables is the state - in some, the truckers have more sway with the legislatures and the state tax on diesel is lower than gasoline. In other states it's just the opposite, and the truckers are told they have to take more of the burden of supporting the road system with higher fuel taxes.

One thing I do know for certain - the cost of diesel is tied much more closely to the price of crude. The crude:gasoline relationship, while there, isn't nearly as direct. We have a momentary glut of gasoline in the wholesale markets right now, with the Midwest looking at maybe under $3/gal for the first time in quite a while.

I'd personally love a Diesel, both in the E and in my Pilot. It's not a question of fuel price for me (I've run premium in my prior BMW cars); I want the range and the pulling power of a diesel, as well as the economy.

So much for choice. Honda was supposed to import a V6 diesel in 2010, and I am sorry they didn't. When I went looking for replacement (which eventually became the E), I found all of about 3-4 cars I could buy with a diesel: the BMW 335d (wonderful but pricey), a few expensive Benzes, a VW TDI (I'll never buy another VW after a few years with a Passat, what a reliability nightmare), and an Audi A3 (see VW). That was it.

I tow a trailer with dirt bikes, and it took a lot of looking to find something that could tow, seat 4, get over 20mpg, and provide utility. Add a diesel, and the E (or the Pilot) would be about perfect.

diesel ... is an an engine with grunt. A diesel delivers power in a completely different way than standard gas engines. Low end muscle would be fun
But then wouldn't we have twice as many posts by people complaining about torque steer?

I confess, after seeing your post, I went and got the actual standards to paste in here... but then when I started doing the math to convert all of the numbers between metric and English and hybrid metric/English values, I found them such a mush of different measuring systems that my poor tired brain decided to simply post a

HUH?

I am tired...

BTW, this thread is NOT about power curves and longevity. It's about the dollars-per-mile question. Also, it's worth mentioning that the English use the metric system and the US uses the English system... except when they mix metric and English units of measurement together. sheesh!
Also, not all of their English measurements are the same as our English measurements. Specifically, they use the Imperial Gallon, which is 1.2 U.S. Gallons. :twisted:

But then wouldn't we have twice as many posts by people complaining about torque steer?

Well Dan, you got me there...

They will have to pry my cold dead hands off the REG pump before I will ever own or drive a diesel..

Oh try priceing 5 gallons of DEF fluid and ad that to the expenses, along with block heater electric bills.

the diff between gas and diesel comes when you are towing or carrying weight.

the diesel will pretty much just continue using the same amount. the gas will start to consume much more.

and on the highway. as a diesel wants to just cruise at a steady pace

stop and go is not efficient for diesel but it could be for gas

and diesel will overpower the 70+ wind resistance much easier then gas


but all in all. a v6 would turn out being more efficient in most cases compared to a 2.4 gas or 2.0 tdi.


I wonder if they have an cold cam for the 2.4? or as many would say the torque cam not the hot hp cam. more so the the stock cam I wouldnt mind losing 10-20 peak hp for 20-40 extra lowend torque.

A 30 mpg estimate for a diesel Element is very low considering diesels in the states are getting 40+ MPG. For example owners of the newer VW diesels report over 40 mpg combined. A friend of mine has a diesel Passat that he regularly gets over 50 mpg on the highway and range of over 600 miles. The passat is a large car and it would not be unreasonable to expect a diesel Element to get over 40 mpg. Using this mpg figure I think you would find the "dollar per mile" to be significantly less on top of the benefits of torque, longevity of the engine and resale value.

high-tech clean modern diesel engines are typically relatively superior to gasoline engines in many ways:

pollutants per km
km per litre
maintenance intervals
maintenance costs
simplicity
durability
reliability
torque
distance between fill-ups
longevity
$ per km
ease of resale
resale value
carbon emissions per km
exclusivity factor

For example, even my faster, more powerful, older 1998 MB E300TD, heavier 1725 kg, larger displacement 3.0 L 6-cylinder, turbocharged diesel with automatic transmission gets about 30% better mileage than my lighter 1601 kg, newer 2004, smaller displacement 2.4 L four-cylinder with a 5-speed manual transmission (4WD) Element. Just one example of how diesel beats gas hands down in mileage and fuel economy comparison.

We may have an answer to this question soon. The junk yard near me has been using it's 2003 2wd Element to run parts for just over a year. ( They got it as Junk. ) The Engine finally died, do to the beating it takes, from the parts drivers. They are going to drop in a 40+ MPG VW turbo diesel. The engine has less than 20,000 miles on it. The car came in after being rear-ended by an 18 wheeler. They are doing some other jobs first. But it's on the list.

I have gone by the place twice in the last 5 weeks to see if it's done. No Joy so far. They have the original engine out of the E, and the VW engine and drive train sitting next to the element.

We shall see.


Dom

Diesel economies are always being tooted as so marvelous by the other members (not mentioning that they're usually quoting EUROPEAN models that can't meet clean air regulations in the US) but really now! The cost of gas today was $3.25 a gallon here in northern Indiana and diesel was $3.85.

A 30mpg diesel Element would cost EXACTLY THE SAME per mile as the E I'm driving right now. Even if prices came down on diesel (ain't gonna happen) then the slight change in economy wouldn't pay for the engine - and if the engines DID meet the clean air standards, then the savings would still be nill. The bottom line is that this thread isn't about miles-per-gallon, it's about miles-per-dollar.

Meet or not, but what you write is hypocritical, because the U.S. and China are the biggest polluters of earth. :-D http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId=USRTXRKSI#a=2
Driving a diesel is cost effective for large runs of annual (over 30 thousand. Km) My Mercedes W210 which I rode, burned in 8l/100km and 6l/100km on the road (with the engine 2.9 TD).