I just took my E in for its 20k checkup and the dealer told me I need new tires. I have never had to replace tires after only 20k miles. I drive mostly freeway miles..WHAT GIVES??? Cheap tires???

I've been told the GoodYears are cheap. Mine are wearing thing as well and I have 18600 miles on mine.

The original equipment tires on the E are real cheap junk. Wear them out and then put something good on the rims. I'm going to switch to Michelins when these wear out, that is if I can ever get the car out of the service dept!

for your next tires get the best rated tires your can afford: may pay more upfront, but overall may save you money (and your life)
check out the tire rack for reviews..

check out the Dunlop Radial Rover A/T (Highway All-Season) 215/70/16s, $73 each. see www.tirerack.com site

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/SelectTireSize.jsp?autoMake=Honda&autoModel=Element+EX&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=4wd

good to hear that the stock tires wear out so quickly, so we can buy new set of taller (245/70/16s?) & better tires, sooner.

I'm really easy on tires. The last car I sold had 37K on the factory rubber (ContiTracs), and there was easily at least another 15-20K left. Its former driveway-mate had 30K on its tires, too, when we sold it, and the wear was hardly discernable (they were Michelins). The tires were probably worth more than the truck itself.

However, our E with only 6K miles on it is showing notable outer-edge wear on all four. It's not alignment wear, because that would show in feathering or cupping. I'm also a stickler for watching tire pressure - I keep a dial-type (professional) tire gauge in the glovebox. So "rotating" the tires looks like it's going to consist of reversing them on the rims in order to get even 25K out of 'em.

That's nuts. :roll:

I think they're relatively cheap tires. The treadwear rating of 340 is low-ish for this class of tires - quality replacement tires tend to run in the 400-500 range.

speaking of tires...

... anyone wanna recommend some replacements for the stock rims?

I wanna go a bit beefier cuz i'll go "offroad" maybe 4 times a year... plus it looks better too.

The best discussion I've seen is here:

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7396

If changing them were to occur tomorrow my inclination would be to go with Michelin Cross-Terrains in 225/70-16. I have had nothing but great luck with Michelins on a wide variety of cars. These have a wear rating of 700 (!!!!), which is over twice that of the OEM rubber. The guys in the thread talk about fitting 235/70's, but Cross-Terrains in that size (...for some reason...) have a wear rating of 500.

Anyway, Cross-Terrains are a pretty mild all-weather tread that might get you in trouble if your occasional off-roading included mud. Michelin has their LTX series (light truck) that has a slightly more aggressive tread that's still half-decent on the road; I had them on my older Explorer and they were, again, nothing other than fabulous.

Mike, where those the Michelin tires that Ford offered as a replacement for the Firestones? I got the GoodYear Wrangler replacements (They were out of Michelins, and I wanted those knobby FireJunks off asap) and absolutely loved them. I had over 80K miles on those tires, and still had probably 5K left on them. I got rid of them because they began to cup and it felt like a belt was broken inside one of the tires (Would be noticable vibration and howling noise around 60 MPH). Even so, 80,000 miles is absolutely amazing considering how low priced those Wranglers were. I am never giving up Goodyears for anything except perhaps Michelin.

I purchased 4 new GoodYear Wranglers (275/45/15 I believe) when the truck turned 120K miles as a special gift for being so good to me. :D

Yes, I give my car gifts...so sue me. It has worked to my advantage. ;)

>were those the Michelin tires that Ford offered as a replacement for the Firestones?

No... at least I don't think so - although very coincidentally I bought them just a couple of weeks before the tread-separation controversy broke. Glad I did.

The Michelins were the third set. I replaced the original Firestones after about 30K miles because they were starting to have serious wet-traction problems, although the tread was technically fine.

>turned 120K miles

I noticed from another posting that you had really good luck with your Explorer. Mine (a '94) was basically scrap at 125K. It was moderately reliable during its lifetime (went through O2 sensors every 30K, alternator replaced at 70K), but at ~115K it was becoming apparent that everything but the engine was near end-of-life. It needed $3-4000 in work when I got rid of it for $1500. The way it deteriorated led me (as an experienced mechanic) to believe it was designed that way, so as a result I've written-off Ford products.

I've been a Ford guy all my life, but have warmed upto imports in the past few years, and want to know more about them since hey, they're all machines right? :)

You had a First Gen. with the 4.0 OHV motor. I personally never liked the OHV motor as much as the SOHC motor I have in my truck. Also, the upgraded 5-speed auto is a big improvement over the 4-speed A4LD you had (It's still a French C3...but the 5-speed had stronger bearings, and a larger fluid capacity to keep things cool). I am part of the national Explorer club, and we have members with over 200K miles with original motors. The transmissions are the trouble spot like most Ford autos. Gets too hot with the TC cycling lock/unlock constantly.

Now it's not trouble-free...The rear wiper doesn't work; The lock button on the driver's side will only unlock (Locks on the other door); Just got a groan from the front end over bumps (Lower ball joints are probably going out). Every vehicle has its problems, and with these new designs making it harder and harder to get to broken components (You don't want to know how hard it is to take off the Explorer's dash...I pray every day I will not have to) it just keeps getting worse.

Most reliable car (Not truck! My uncle has an old Bronco that is older than stone, but it rides like you area always driving over rocks) I have ever seen was sister's old 1991 Accord 5-speed. I don't like Honda's slushboxes much, but their clutches have the best feel of any other car-maker, and that old 4-banger ran like a Toyota 2.2, except it actually had some cojones. ;) I know she had over 200K miles on that old box.

:wink:

I had the 5-speed manual. The tranny was fine, but the clutch was part of that $4K it needed when I last saw it.

> (Lower ball joints are probably going out).

FWIW, it was the ball joints that were the last straw for me. What upset me more than anything else was that there were no zerks. "Lifetime lubricated" actually means that they will last whatever their lifetime is going to be with whatever grease came in 'em from the factory - otherwise translated, very roughly 100K miles. And you are afforded no opportunity to avoid this. That philosophy is fine for a car with relatively light suspension demands, but most certainly not on a truck. Hold onto your wallet, 'cause replacing the ball joints is a $1500+ operation if yours is a 4x4.

This, to me, is planned obsolescence in spades. They save a few cents/unit in manufacturing (by omitting the zerks), and when these plus everything else wear out right about the same time, combined costs to repair well exceed the value of the vehicle. As I say, it did not do much to endear me to Ford... not at all.

Not to say that Honda is guaranteed to be any better in this regard - they have no zerks, either - but at least it is actually possible to lift the boot and regrease the joint. Not easy, but possible.

:?

$1500?! Did you replace the ENTIRE front suspension for that much money? I can get Moog (They have greasable points) joints for less than $50 a side, and I was quoted $200 installed from my mechanic for the lower ball joints. Unlike the upper joints which require replacement of the entire control arm, the lower joints can be bought seperately (No matter what popular belief might be). No offense man, but I seriously hope you didn't spend anywhere near that much money...there's a silly joke around the domestic community that import owners will pay any price they are told at the dealers, no matter what. Well, I know plenty of domestic morons, and you're a mechanic anyway. Still...$1500 is ludicrous. Please don't ban me though. ;) I'm harmless, honest! *laughs*

4-Wheel drive is sometimes over-rated IMO. It's a great substitute when the driver cannot drive very well, or does not want to worry about driving 100% of the time. Maybe I don't drive in the northern climates enough, but sand, rain, and the ONE 2" snow "storm" we had down here hasn't stopped me. Just the fact that I don't have to worry about CV joints (I'm sure you Honda guys know about those things going out ;) ) or transfer cases makes me feel better. Good tires are just as important as ABS or 4/AWD. That's why I'm glad people on here are watching their tread, because this is VERY important.

I looked at the bill again... it was $1300... but still. Hell, the dealer quoted nearly $2K. :(

No, just all four ball joints. The original quote was around $800, but you have to remember they salt the roads up here. Once my guy started taking stuff apart, 10 years of salt damage added to the bill.

This was the big downside of the 1st-gen Explorers - remember, it had the "twin-I-beam" garbage, which is a nightmare to work on. You had to remove everything up to the transfer case to do the joints. Ball joints weren't expensive relatively speaking (like you said), you just had to spend hours & hours completely dismantling the front suspension and front drivetrain bits. I would have done the job myself, but didn't have the nearly two days it was going to take... which turned into a week from ordering and replacing corroded parts one at a time.

:roll:

I constantly read disparaging remarks about the stock tires and have to wonder what the hell people expect? I'm completely satisfied with their performance in the wet, in snow, and on dry pavement. I'm not talking about autocross-level performance, but everyday driving in the real world. Yeah, some complain about their treadlife, but apparently nobody here is young enough to remember pre-radial tire days. If a factory tire lasted 10,000 miles then, it was a miracle! I don't remember massive consumer protest, but then, that concept didn't exist then, either.

If you had wanted tires that were both high-performance and had an additional 20,000 miles of tread life, would you have been willing to pay an additional $500 or so for your Element? Nah, I didn't think so.

There'll always be a trade-off between "grip" and "tread-life". Hard rubber lasts longer, but doesn't grip as well. Soft tread grips better, but wears out sooner. You want both? Be prepared to spend big money. And people here don't seem willing to do that. They complain at the prices they've already paid, which are ridiculously low, considering what this car has to offer.

And all the "swearing" by brand names? What a bunch of hooey! Each manufacturer builds at least one pretty good, if not great tire, and lots of really bad ones. What's best for one person's Element may not be even close for somebody else's.

How about a little less "slamming" one tire (or the entire brand), and a little more "this (specific tire) did this or that for me" on some specific vehicle?

I have yet to see a factory original tire be worth keeping for one reason or another and find its almost more irritating to have a poor performing tire that lasts forever. Or just plain paying extra for a tire that doesn't meet your preferences.

BUT the issue i have, is all of the "best value" but good performance tires I have researched and discovered over the years are NOT available in this oddball size.

BUT I LIKE the size. Seems like a nice compromise bigger than a sedan but not a gas eating truck tire. sorta adds to the funky Tinker Toy look of the vehicle. I do NOT want to switch to a tire that affects gas mileage adversely, messes up the speedometer/odometer, or requires me to immediately dump the alloy wheels I paid extra to get when I bought the car.

Historically speaking, I have NOT been impressed by Dunlops and feel Michelin are just not a good value. I have hade good luck with Yoko Avid Touring and for absolute miracles of good value I recently discovered Discount Tires store brand Arizonian Silver Edition with siping added. They TRANSFORMED my last vehicle and were cheap and wore well. NOT AVAILABLE IN HONDA SIZE....AAAAARGGHHHH!!!!

So until some decent selection becomes available, I am NOT looking forward to the tires wearing out fast...previous to this discovery, I couldn't wait.

What kind of tires are these again? I'm going to say again that I got over 80K miles on my Goodyear Wranglers...and they were "stock" tires (The Firechickens don't count).

I've got a 2wd 5spd E and the stock tires are very easily spun on good dry pavement in both 1st and 2nd gear if you're not careful. The tires are wearing rapidly and I don't expect them to last much beyond 20-25K miles. For the winter I used a set of Cooper winter tires - Discoverer M&S. These tires really give great wet and snow traction and have kept me out of the ditches this winter. I mounted them on some take-off steel DX Element rims that I picked up from my dealer - the Honda alloy rims corrode to quickly in the heavy salt used in our area. I doubt that these tires will last but about 40K but they are a great safety margin in the winter. The stock skins & alloy wheels go back on the E in a couple of weeks - back to crappy traction from a cheap set of tires.

That's why they are called "Good-for-a-year's".

After addressing the tire wear issue at 3k miles and nothing was resolved by either Goodyear and Honda, I am just posting another complaint.
I had noticable side-wall wear at 3k miles. I was told by Goodyear that it's simply the vehicle's center of gravity, and that the car leans around hard turns which in turn wears the side walls. However, they said it may be the alignmen. Bottom line, they said the tires were not at fault.
Honda relaligned all 4 wheels and said that Goodyear was still responsible for tire wear. Goodyear would not do a thing!
I just brought my car in for an oil change last week and was told that all 4 tires need replacement. I only have 17k miles. The service tech showed me wear on the inside of the back two tires, stating that this is the result of misalignment.
I never hit a curb, have had a 4 wheel alignment already, and rotated my tires every 5k miles. He said they weren't even worth rotating this time around because of the inner-side-wall wear to the back two.
Something is definitely not right here.

I also had excessive wear on the outside 1" portion of the tread on all four tires. I took it to Honda for an alignment check (they said it was within "normal limits"). Yet after this trip, no more excessive wear. That was at about 15,000 miles and now I'm at 27,000 miles. In my case, I believe it to be a combination of things. My Goodyear problems = Alignment slightly out + lower air pressure + increased lean during cornering + medium/aggressive driving style. Since the Honda service, my tires appear to have virtually stopped wearing. Based upon my current tire condition, I'm predicting about 40,000-50,000 miles on the Goodyear Wranglers. My quick action hopefully saved these tires from early death. Time will tell with mine. Good luck.

P.S. I also rotate the tires every-other-oil-change.

P.S.P.S. My wife had Michelins as original equip on her 98 Accord. When we finally replaced these tires at 80,000 miles, the tread was perfect but Michelin is also especially vulnerable for "dry rot". All 4 of the Michelins on the Accord had severe dry rot on the side wall. I replaced them with Goodyears. The Goodyears are med/high performance (Honda specs for Accord tires). Traction is better with the Goodyears with a 60,000 miles wear warrenty. There are tradeoffs for each model/brand. JMO

The tread design on the stock tires may also give the impression of excessive wear. Grove depth on the outter tread is rather shallow, so once these wear a bit, it gives the impression of excessive edge wear.

paulj

I have about 10k miles on mine and after reading this thread checked them out at my last fill-up. True, the tread pattern on the outside of the stock rubber looks kinda thin - but the center tread looks and feels nice n' beefy. I think it's just the design - as stated earlier in this thread.

So far, so good. No unusual tire wear on my EX AWD Element. Don't hate me though - I got cracking windshields and rattles galore to make up for it!

Boat Drinks!

-D